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On August 16 2013 04:52 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. The ability details are really useful, but do you really have to list for every ability whether it damages Black Shield or not? Also, apparently troll pole / troll pool will let you avoid the delayed damage from time bombs and sharks, but not hemoplagues or death marks. Inconsistency FTW! EDIT: Actually not that inconsistent. Untargetable(-but-not-invulnerable) lets you avoid delayed damage that has a visible countdown, but not those that don't. For some reason. EDIT2: Or it's probably a case of delayed-damage-that-also-has-initial-damage vs the ones that don't.
The difference is this:
Time Bomb and Shark hit an area. So, you're invincible on your pole and the bomb explodes and hits the area around you.
Hemoplague and Death Mark are single target debuffs. (Even though Hemoplague affects multiple people, it debuffs each of them individually.) When they expire they do damage to the person afflicted.
However, Shaco ult literally removes you from the game for a fraction of a second. This is why it can be used to dodge a tick of damage from Ignite, or the damage of Death Mark.
On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing?
Rammus can't reliably run away, his ult doesn't really kill towers super fast unless you're ap, and his dueling abilities aren't on par with most of the other split pushers.
Leblanc isn't the best duelist (especially against ranged champs - Vayne will rock you unless you OHKO her), but most importantly is her waveclear is pretty poop and also her only escape. She also doesn't kill towers super quickly.
On the topic of subpar but playable split-pushers, Heimerdinger is a very strong duelist against melees once he finishes Zhonyas and he kills towers quickly. Downsides are being terrible against ranged carries and having basically no escapes.
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On August 16 2013 02:27 Morzas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 13:24 Kuja900 wrote:Hey guys I just put a lot of work into my 3.10 Rammus guide if teamliquid has any comments,criticisms or anything else for me I would greatly appreciate it this is my first guide and I am a perfectionist: http://www.lolking.net/guides/179926 One of the biggest mistakes I make when I play Rammus is forgetting that my teammates aren't as fast as I am, so I get a little too aggressive and I get picked off because of it. I don't know where you could fit that into your guide, but I think it's something every Rammus player (and Hecarim player) needs to be aware of.
Good thinking I will write something about that, I used to do this on Hecarim all the time but I have gotten a feel for it now. I have done some additions to the guide by the way and cleaned up a lot of typos.
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On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing?
Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy.
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On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy.
This, shitty wave clear is one of Rammus' cons. He is still really good at holding towers though even without waveclear due to the threat of taunting someone under the tower. If you went sunfire you could split push somewhat but I think you just excel at other things more and many other champions are better suited for the job.
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On August 16 2013 05:05 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:35 Gahlo wrote:On August 16 2013 04:30 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. whaaaat? those were my favorite pages, so many little details that I could get there without having to test shit in a bot game. All the information is probably migrating to the base page in dropdowns. Correct, you can find examples of it on a couple of the champion pages. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/LucianBasically, instead of having an entire, separate "Ability Details" page, you can just see the details on the main page. It's waaaaay more convenient and snazzy.
Oh shit that's super nice, can't wait til they're all like that.
On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy.
This makes me think: could there be such thing as a proxy-ing jungler (in arranged, of course)? Like, your laner is keeping the other laner busy in the lane, you take a fast clearer (Shy and Yi spring to mind) behind their tower, clear it, and then assist them in pushing the lane? Kind of a counter-lane version of counter-jungling, but with more Shyvana and less Nunu.
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On August 16 2013 05:35 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 05:05 Seuss wrote:On August 16 2013 04:35 Gahlo wrote:On August 16 2013 04:30 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. whaaaat? those were my favorite pages, so many little details that I could get there without having to test shit in a bot game. All the information is probably migrating to the base page in dropdowns. Correct, you can find examples of it on a couple of the champion pages. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/LucianBasically, instead of having an entire, separate "Ability Details" page, you can just see the details on the main page. It's waaaaay more convenient and snazzy. Oh shit that's super nice, can't wait til they're all like that. Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy. This makes me think: could there be such thing as a proxy-ing jungler (in arranged, of course)? Like, your laner is keeping the other laner busy in the lane, you take a fast clearer (Shy and Yi spring to mind) behind their tower, clear it, and then assist them in pushing the lane? Kind of a counter-lane version of counter-jungling, but with more Shyvana and less Nunu.
Well one problem is that junglers dont usually have the gold to duel laners and if someone comes to stop you you have no choice but to back off and sometimes you will just die. This makes things hard for rammus in particular because without a taunt under your own tower or chasing someone who is already low you are not getting solo kills on rammus. You also have no sustain so anyone stopping you with sustain will make you have to back rather quickly.
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On August 16 2013 05:22 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy. This, shitty wave clear is one of Rammus' cons. He is still really good at holding towers though even without waveclear due to the threat of taunting someone under the tower. If you went sunfire you could split push somewhat but I think you just excel at other things more and many other champions are better suited for the job.
Not to mention the jungle income is shit, so it'll be like 30 minutes before you get enough gold for funfire.
also, if you're spending all your time farming, your not ganking, them why the fuck did you pick rammus? Lol.
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On August 16 2013 05:39 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 05:35 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 05:05 Seuss wrote:On August 16 2013 04:35 Gahlo wrote:On August 16 2013 04:30 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. whaaaat? those were my favorite pages, so many little details that I could get there without having to test shit in a bot game. All the information is probably migrating to the base page in dropdowns. Correct, you can find examples of it on a couple of the champion pages. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/LucianBasically, instead of having an entire, separate "Ability Details" page, you can just see the details on the main page. It's waaaaay more convenient and snazzy. Oh shit that's super nice, can't wait til they're all like that. On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy. This makes me think: could there be such thing as a proxy-ing jungler (in arranged, of course)? Like, your laner is keeping the other laner busy in the lane, you take a fast clearer (Shy and Yi spring to mind) behind their tower, clear it, and then assist them in pushing the lane? Kind of a counter-lane version of counter-jungling, but with more Shyvana and less Nunu. Well one problem is that junglers dont usually have the gold to duel laners and if someone comes to stop you you have no choice but to back off and sometimes you will just die.
Hence why your laner is there to help you. If you proxy kill a wave top as, say, Shyvana, now the enemy laner comes with, dragging along your top. They're in a 2v1, while the lane is pushing thanks to you wiping out the wave. If you pull the jungler top (which a ward in a tribrush should warn you of), you're still in a 2v2 with a pushing lane. Bot, who already has a strong diving potential and can assist you if the enemy AD/Support comes at you, would miss out on the farm, but benefits from the tower going down if they have roam potential like Varus or Ashe.
Just musing
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On August 16 2013 05:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 05:39 Kuja900 wrote:On August 16 2013 05:35 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 05:05 Seuss wrote:On August 16 2013 04:35 Gahlo wrote:On August 16 2013 04:30 Requizen wrote:On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. whaaaat? those were my favorite pages, so many little details that I could get there without having to test shit in a bot game. All the information is probably migrating to the base page in dropdowns. Correct, you can find examples of it on a couple of the champion pages. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/LucianBasically, instead of having an entire, separate "Ability Details" page, you can just see the details on the main page. It's waaaaay more convenient and snazzy. Oh shit that's super nice, can't wait til they're all like that. On August 16 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:On August 16 2013 03:40 XilDarkz wrote:
TIL from your Rammus guide that his ultimate damages towers. Why is split-push Rammus not a thing? Cuz splitpushing requires good wave clear. Rammus' s waveclear outside his ult is shit, except for proxying, which requires him to over extend like crazy. This makes me think: could there be such thing as a proxy-ing jungler (in arranged, of course)? Like, your laner is keeping the other laner busy in the lane, you take a fast clearer (Shy and Yi spring to mind) behind their tower, clear it, and then assist them in pushing the lane? Kind of a counter-lane version of counter-jungling, but with more Shyvana and less Nunu. Well one problem is that junglers dont usually have the gold to duel laners and if someone comes to stop you you have no choice but to back off and sometimes you will just die. Hence why your laner is there to help you. If you proxy kill a wave top as, say, Shyvana, now the enemy laner comes with, dragging along your top. They're in a 2v1, while the lane is pushing thanks to you wiping out the wave. If you pull the jungler top (which a ward in a tribrush should warn you of), you're still in a 2v2 with a pushing lane. Bot, who already has a strong diving potential and can assist you if the enemy AD/Support comes at you, would miss out on the farm, but benefits from the tower going down if they have roam potential like Varus or Ashe. Just musing
Well If I am understanding you correctly if you cant do anything about the enemy laner just surviving under tower with sustain and if they send nobody then 2 people on your team are tied up top lane not accomplishing much and they can start a 4 man dragon. Or if you are pushing a lane with 2 people what if they come with 3? You all are pushed they can catch you and if you both die it is a free baron and/or other objective.
It depends on the phase of the game exactly why but I think this strategy is flawed.
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On August 15 2013 19:03 mr_tolkien wrote:
I don't even see how that's supposed to work. Zed will wreck you nonstop until you get lvl9, by which point his all-in is way better than yours and you can't even go in minion range if he's got a bilgwater cutlass.
I have no idea how vlad can even farm against a Zed.
Strange. I've played this matchup multiple times top lane, and Vlad generally runs roughshod over Zed. Vlad can begin outpoking Zed starting level 1. A shuriken for a transfuse (and +auto) is not a good trade, and early on, Zed cannot CS without coming into transfuse range (or else use shuriken to farm, thereby giving the lane to Vlad), and Vlad can continue this poke to establish a health advantage. Even once Zed gets his shadow in early levels, using it to go in on Vlad is risky, given minion agro and retaliation autos on the way back will probably cost him ~1/3rd his life bar, and Vlad has sustain (while Zed doesn't), and Zed will likely run out of pots first, even if it's 5 vs 3.
One of the key issues is that Zed has no all-in potential vs Vlad 1v1. If Zed deathmarks, Vlad pools immediately and escapes, and basically negates the window Zed has to actually do anything during the deathmark (pool doesn't negate death mark damage, so there's no reason not to immediately pool in a 1v1). Moreover, Zed cannot bring Vlad down low enough to all-in, and if Zed is going for a Bilgewater, Vlad should have at least an Armguard and boots, and his Q+E will hit like a damn truck against Zed, whom also needs to start/buy mass sustain/pots against Vlad to stay in lane.
There are several videos on youtube of Dyrus or WoD playing the matchup, and it goes how you would expect. Vlad zoning out/poking down Zed, with a lifebar pretty much perpetually close to 100%, while Zed tries to play defensive and just farm (with abilities). If Zed plays defensively, he's generally not going to die to Vlad unless he takes way too much poke, but Vlad has clear lane dominance.
The main thing in the matchup is jungler ganks, because its especially easy to overextend even with Ghost/pool because Vlad is almost always pushed up to Zed's turret.
Mid lane may be different, but I'm skeptical that it would be that different.
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On August 16 2013 05:12 Tooplark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:52 thenexusp wrote:On August 16 2013 04:25 XilDarkz wrote:"Please update the Additional Information sections on the top page, as Ability Details pages are being retired." The pages are being retired. Well, it was a nice run. The ability details are really useful, but do you really have to list for every ability whether it damages Black Shield or not? Also, apparently troll pole / troll pool will let you avoid the delayed damage from time bombs and sharks, but not hemoplagues or death marks. Inconsistency FTW! EDIT: Actually not that inconsistent. Untargetable(-but-not-invulnerable) lets you avoid delayed damage that has a visible countdown, but not those that don't. For some reason. EDIT2: Or it's probably a case of delayed-damage-that-also-has-initial-damage vs the ones that don't. The difference is this: Time Bomb and Shark hit an area. So, you're invincible on your pole and the bomb explodes and hits the area around you. Hemoplague and Death Mark are single target debuffs. (Even though Hemoplague affects multiple people, it debuffs each of them individually.) When they expire they do damage to the person afflicted. However, Shaco ult literally removes you from the game for a fraction of a second. This is why it can be used to dodge a tick of damage from Ignite, or the damage of Death Mark.
Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks.
Although, doesn't the shark affect the primary target differently from the other targets? I wonder how it's coded internally.
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9871 Posts
tolkien vs tolkien fight, let's go
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On August 16 2013 06:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
tolkien vs tolkien fight, let's go
I'll admit, I'm talking from a top lane perspective of the matchup. The mid lane version may be different/more even, though the mechanics of the Vlad v. Zed matchup generally shouldn't have Zed crushing Vlad.
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On August 16 2013 05:05 TheYango wrote:
I find sandbox mode/combat log less excusable to be honest, because there's not really an excuse for Riot to not already have those things for their own internal testing.
their ability spotlights are either in dominion or bot lane, so I don't think they do :|
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United States15536 Posts
On August 16 2013 05:38 zodde wrote:
So Hydra Rammus then...?
I'm pretty sure you make Hydra Rammus by building Sunfire.
Am I doing it right?
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So, what's the deal with Athene's GP10 build? Is it just trolling or is there merit to it?
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United States23745 Posts
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On August 16 2013 06:44 XilDarkz wrote:
So, what's the deal with Athene's GP10 build? Is it just trolling or is there merit to it?
Athene pretty much does nothing but troll, not much to ask.
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On August 16 2013 06:46 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 06:44 XilDarkz wrote:
So, what's the deal with Athene's GP10 build? Is it just trolling or is there merit to it? Athene pretty much does nothing but troll, not much to ask.
I knew him for nothing but trolling circa Burning Crusade, but my brother seems to think there is merit to it as he is somewhat successful as far as NA solo queue goes; I'd like to hear some opinions that are more informed cause there's zero chance of finding them on any of his actual content.
I was thinking of trying TF with GP10; combined with his passive and the viability of Kage's into Twin Shadows, it doesn't seem that bad of an idea.
Avarice+TF's new passive: 6 bonus gold per creep
all GP10 combined: 115 gold per minute
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EPT
