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On August 26 2012 21:33 Spaghetticus wrote:
My thoughts on it are that I would much prefer a lynch on Shady, as although I am suspicious of Dandel, this recent lack of interest is either a very good self bus play, or genuine disinterest, which I would not expect from a scum player.
Why?
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@Shady Sands
There is one thing in your post I agree with, the last part.
On August 26 2012 20:59 Shady Sands wrote:
I don't buy your JK claim at all. Never have, never will, unless you die and flip JK. Even if someone else claims they were RB'd, it could just be your scumbuddy in which case woohoo! We have our two scum.
That is why people should decide who I RB. They can pick the least scummy person to minimize the chance that it will be my "scumbuddy."
As for lvdr, I find your case against him an exaggeration.
On August 26 2012 20:59 Shady Sands wrote:
Again, Kush isn't listening to others or making a good case. My case on Lvdr is not in how many people he was accusing but the way in which he was doing it. He was FoSing and voting people without giving them a chance to respond, in the last 12 hours before the lynch. And he was rapidly switching his targets as he did so. This is a classic scum technique to find out who is AFK/busy so they can set up a mislynch wagon, especially given that most of the town was undecided at that point.
He claims he FOSed a bunch of people rapidly because he was trying to prevent lurkers. He uses the FOS differently than he should perhaps but to me it makes sense.
Yes he voted for weetee at first then change his vote to dandelion, but why would mafia do that if weetee was town anyway? Also many people changed their vote from dandelion to weetee. Changing your vote does not make you mafia.
@thrawn You have actually been riding shady's dick quite hard this game. I'm not saying it makes you suspicious but maybe you are putting too much stock in his meta.
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On August 26 2012 22:05 kushm4sta wrote:That is why people should decide who I RB. They can pick the least scummy person to minimize the chance that it will be my "scumbuddy."
It wouldn't be absolute proof. You could always get roleblocked by mafia and then your roleblock wouldn't go through.
Is that what would happen? If player A submits a roleblock on player B and player B submits a roleblock on player C will player C be roleblocked?
On August 26 2012 22:05 kushm4sta wrote:@thrawn You have actually been riding shady's dick quite hard this game. I'm not saying it makes you suspicious but maybe you are putting too much stock in his meta.
I'm extremely familiar with shady's super aggressive and nit-picky town play. I was tunneled by him so hard in newbie game 24 that I ended up voting for him thinking that "no way a town player would be like this" and he ended up flipping green. I'll go through his filter again and see if his actions appear scum/town motivated.
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On August 26 2012 22:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
It wouldn't be absolute proof. You could always get roleblocked by mafia and then your roleblock wouldn't go through
Oh no. I reread the rules. The scum RB is just going to RB me, so my RB isn't going to go through. I did not realize this.
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On August 26 2012 22:53 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
It wouldn't be absolute proof. You could always get roleblocked by mafia and then your roleblock wouldn't go through Oh no. I reread the rules. The scum RB is just going to RB me, so my RB isn't going to go through. I did not realize this.
It's hypothetical scenarios like that which makes your jk claim kinda silly to think about. You would do better to show that you are town by scumhunting. I see right now that you are most suspicious of shady and I'm about to post on that so let me know what you think of my upcoming post.
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I'm gonna stick with my town read on shady. In the cases against him (mostly spag's) he is mainly accused of picking apart statements to try and throw suspicion around. He does indeed nitpick a lot, but the only times when the nitpicks seemed like they could have been scum motivated were at the beginning of the game when there wasn't anything to talk about except lurker policy. As I read through his filter his questions became more and more indicative of somebody who is scumhunting rather than someone who is trying to generate pointless suspicion. Makes sense.... the level of controversy slowly builds as the game progresses so constant aggressive questioning will look scummy at first when there is no controversy.
He did change his votes around during the last half of D1 but his overall motives were consistent and transparent. For example, he agreed with my case against WeeTee and said he would consider WeeTee as a 2nd candidate before most other people had done so. He was one of the first to commit to that (backup WeeTee plan) and he followed through on it. He has maintained his other suspicions (against kush and lvdr) very consistently while continuing to scumhunt.
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Cop should NOT waste a check on dandel.
Dandel should be the next lynch.
Cop should be on shady because he is much more of a wildcard.
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On August 26 2012 22:53 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
It wouldn't be absolute proof. You could always get roleblocked by mafia and then your roleblock wouldn't go through Oh no. I reread the rules. The scum RB is just going to RB me, so my RB isn't going to go through. I did not realize this.
Cop should be checking KushM4sta, as he's been claiming JK for the past day, and explicitly stated we could confirm that JK claim, and now there's not even a way to "verify" his claims.
Alternatively, cop should check Lvdr to see whether he's just a lying scum or a townie with difficulty separating fact from fiction.
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On a side note, cop please don't roleclaim. It's way too early in the game to even consider doing that. Breadcrumb your night checks or something to be revealed at a later date.
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I don't have much time today to post before the NK, though I believe I'll be back before the Daypost. I think that the cop should investigate Dandel lon. If he ends up being scum, there is so much information to be gained from the D1 vote. It will indicate that someone who took part in the exodus from Dandel lon is likely the remaining scum, as well as possibly confirm some people as townies. Though most of the players in the game were in on the WeeTee lynch (which makes sense with a majority vote), I believe that the possibilities can be narrowed down.
As far as kush and the JK claim go, I see so many reasons for kush to have claimed JK because he is JK, and virtually none if he is scum. Everyone agrees that (at least until more recently) he was/is a pretty weak player. Town kush claiming JK makes complete sense in this case. Scum kush would have had to form a plan that is inconsistent with how he behaved up to that point and in complete opposition to his lack of understanding of how to play this game (which it seems he's beginning to understand). I still believe that pursuing cases against him is a waste of time.
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On August 26 2012 22:05 kushm4sta wrote:@Shady Sands There is one thing in your post I agree with, the last part. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:59 Shady Sands wrote:
I don't buy your JK claim at all. Never have, never will, unless you die and flip JK. Even if someone else claims they were RB'd, it could just be your scumbuddy in which case woohoo! We have our two scum. That is why people should decide who I RB. They can pick the least scummy person to minimize the chance that it will be my "scumbuddy." As for lvdr, I find your case against him an exaggeration. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:59 Shady Sands wrote:
Again, Kush isn't listening to others or making a good case. My case on Lvdr is not in how many people he was accusing but the way in which he was doing it. He was FoSing and voting people without giving them a chance to respond, in the last 12 hours before the lynch. And he was rapidly switching his targets as he did so. This is a classic scum technique to find out who is AFK/busy so they can set up a mislynch wagon, especially given that most of the town was undecided at that point. He claims he FOSed a bunch of people rapidly because he was trying to prevent lurkers. He uses the FOS differently than he should perhaps but to me it makes sense. Yes he voted for weetee at first then change his vote to dandelion, but why would mafia do that if weetee was town anyway? Also many people changed their vote from dandelion to weetee. Changing your vote does not make you mafia. @thrawn You have actually been riding shady's dick quite hard this game. I'm not saying it makes you suspicious but maybe you are putting too much stock in his meta.
He claims he has been busy FOSing people to prevent lurkers, but somehow he missed Alsn, who skipped out hours prior to nightpost and didn't even show up for the lynch.
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On August 27 2012 02:58 Shady Sands wrote:He claims he has been busy FOSing people to prevent lurkers, but somehow he missed Alsn, who skipped out hours prior to nightpost and didn't even show up for the lynch. Wait, what? I most certainly did show up for the lynch. I changed my vote before the deadline too. Gonna write up my thoughts on the pre-lynch debacle sometime before end of the night, I've just been really busy today so far.
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On August 27 2012 03:31 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 02:58 Shady Sands wrote:He claims he has been busy FOSing people to prevent lurkers, but somehow he missed Alsn, who skipped out hours prior to nightpost and didn't even show up for the lynch. Wait, what? I most certainly did show up for the lynch. I changed my vote before the deadline too. Gonna write up my thoughts on the pre-lynch debacle sometime before end of the night, I've just been really busy today so far.
Who was it that skipped out on the lynch vote then? I know someone did, he came into the thread and was making loud posts about how he missed his alarm clock.
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Ok, so. To recap, what happened before lynch was that me, Spag and others all mostly agreed that kush/WT were either bad townies, or bad scum and that either way lynching them would be an "if noone else pops up"-option.
I want to comment on the following, as this is the event that sticks out the most to me in the hours before lynch.On August 26 2012 20:59 Shady Sands wrote:Again, Kush isn't listening to others or making a good case. My case on Lvdr is not in how many people he was accusing but the way in which he was doing it. He was FoSing and voting people without giving them a chance to respond, in the last 12 hours before the lynch. And he was rapidly switching his targets as he did so. This is a classic scum technique to find out who is AFK/busy so they can set up a mislynch wagon, especially given that most of the town was undecided at that point.
Shady, you claim that Lvdr was throwing blame around all over the place in a supposed textbook mafia move. Except, your argument simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Firstly, the target switching. You claim that he rapidly switched targets as a way to find out who were able to defend themselves in order to launch a mislynch wagon. Yet his only switch was from WeeTee, to Dandel Ion. This with an actual proper case to support his switch.
Second, it's true that WeeTee didn't show up to defend himself, but if your statement had been based in reality that's who Lvdr would have tried to wagon and not someone else who actually showed up to defend himself. Instead Lvdr stuck to his guns and actually argued with Dandel Ion who was very much here to defend himself.
Lastly, in the end it was you, Shady, who made everyone switch to the mislynch, largely together with mkfuba thanks to the following post: + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2012 05:44 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 05:29 mkfuba07 wrote:
##Unvote
Naturally, I'm currently looking at Dandel lon or WeeTee. As far as Dandel lon goes, I'm ignoring the fact that he's voting for WeeTee, because that is basically his only viable option. WeeTee's vote, on the other hand, I find to be one of his most suspicious actions. He votes for kush for the same reasoning that he uses to defend himself. Also, though I know there's a lot of speculation as to whether or not the JK claim was real, saying "I'd rather lynch him and know if he was JK than keep wondering" (paraphrased) is scummy. Whether or not you believe kush's role claim, WeeTee's reason for voting for him is anti-town.
For Dandel lon, his main defense against the accusations is that the main point of Lvdr's argument is that he's experienced and should be posting better. I don't think that that's the strongest aspect of Lvdr's case. The fact that until just recently everything Dandel lon's said was policy (acceptable to a point), comments that appear to be contributing (slightly suspicious), and wishy-washy reads (suspicious) with about 17 hours of lurking following it, is the heart of the matter for me. It's not just the lurking, it's the active lurking before that.
##vote Dandel lon Okay. Mkfuba, you hold the hammer. I don't get how you can view WeeTee's actual vote and KushM4sta-level anti-town play as being less worth a vote than Dandel's "active lurking." Furthermore, if Dandel is as experienced as people suggest, it is better to have him around than a terrible poster who won't contribute to scumhunt. Unless your read on Dandel is 100% scum, you should be voting WeeTee.
As has been pointed out by others, your reasoning here seems very flawed. Why other than your own suspicion of Lvdr did you feel that the cases outlined against WeeTee were stronger than Dandel Ion's lurking? Because he absolutely was lurking. He only really started defending himself once he was accused. Before that point Lvdr was right on the money as Dandel together with mkfuba was one of the players with the least amount of content/posts.
In conclusion, I'm absolutely siding with Lvdr against Shady and as such, I would think the cop(if there is one? not sure on whether it's guaranteed that there is one looking at the rules) should investigate either one of them to clear things up. I'm not entirely sure who would be the best target however, but as of right now I would have to go with Shady. Lvdr's behaviour leading up to lynch seemed a lot more in tune with a townie desperately trying to get people to generate a "productive" lynch, something we IMHO didn't get. Shady on the other hand had a lot of inconsistensies in his arguments, some of which I pointed out myself here.
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I like a cop check on shady now because either a red or green check tells us so much. The same is true of me, but I do think I've shown enough to be town, especially given how the WeeTee lynch went down.
As soon as the day post goes down my vote will be on dandel. The fact that he is replacing out means that he must be lynched; he looked scummy before, and if someone is taking over a scum-player they will have a fresh start to construct their defense.
Usually the sensible thing would be getting replaced I guess, but the replacement would just get lynched day 2 too, so no need to bother, hm?
A dick move?
Yeah. But I don't care anymore.
This quote sounds like a mafia who knows he's caught.
Yes his lurkiness may be due to IRL issues, but that is not a risk I think we can take right now. I say again that WeeTee was a perfect mislynch opportunity, one that was pushed by dandel and shady.
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How much time is left on the deadline?
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Day post in 40 minutes. Please make sure to send any night actions you may have to both myself and Keirathi.
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Hi. I don't know what to do beacuse scum rb just gonna rb me.
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EPT
