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On August 26 2012 14:48 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 02:05 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 25 2012 01:43 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'll be honest here and say that I'm actually inclined to believe kush. His play has been consistently bad, while I feel a newbie scum would have been far more variant. He would also have another person to discuss his play with, instead of having to hear from us how poorly he's been playing. He seems more 'alone' than a scum would be, if that makes sense. That actually is a decent point. But I'm not so sure that him being "alone" is necessarily a town tell either, the way his case was going for the most part whould most likely discourage scum-partners to defend him too much - it's even more probable that he is subtly bussing him, rather than defending. But this is all pretty WIFOM. As it stands, your point, while a good one, looks like a straight-up null-tell to me. But I understand if you see it as a town-tell.. I also think that kush was playing "bad town" rather than scum for the most part. But I will reserve judgement on him, no matter which way, until he explains why he was claiming JK there.I really don't get it, and as I said, it's not very believable imo. Dandel this post doesn't make very much sense. After reading that post I have absolutely no idea what read you were giving on kush. You use as you said, arguments that are "all pretty WIFOM" and assign a null tell to mkfuba's point about kush seeming to be alone. Then you say you "think that kush was playing "bad town" rather than scum for the most part." And then you say that his JK claim is "not very believable." So which is it? You say you will reserve judgement on him till he explains his JK claim but I think it's perfectly obvious why both a scum or town kush would roleclaim. Newb-town kush would do it out of desperation, and scum kush would do it as a scare tactic to avoid getting lynched. I don't see why you would need to see his explanation for why he claimed blue before you can give a read on him.
This is exactly what I was saying here:
On August 25 2012 02:21 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 02:05 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 25 2012 01:43 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'll be honest here and say that I'm actually inclined to believe kush. His play has been consistently bad, while I feel a newbie scum would have been far more variant. He would also have another person to discuss his play with, instead of having to hear from us how poorly he's been playing. He seems more 'alone' than a scum would be, if that makes sense. That actually is a decent point. But I'm not so sure that him being "alone" is necessarily a town tell either, the way his case was going for the most part whould most likely discourage scum-partners to defend him too much - it's even more probable that he is subtly bussing him, rather than defending. But this is all pretty WIFOM. As it stands, your point, while a good one, looks like a straight-up null-tell to me. But I understand if you see it as a town-tell.. I also think that kush was playing "bad town" rather than scum for the most part. But I will reserve judgement on him, no matter which way, until he explains why he was claiming JK there.I really don't get it, and as I said, it's not very believable imo. First off, reserving judgment on Kush is bad. Lengthening the amount of time we talk about Kush is going to shorten the amount of time we have to talk about more substantial cases like Lvdr. Furthermore, I don't get why on one hand you understand how mkfuba can see the claim as a town-tell but on the other hand act completely confused about kush.
I honestly have no idea how this post makes much sense at all. Either you believe Kush or you don't, Dandel. And if you don't, Kush is a clear lynch.
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On August 26 2012 07:02 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:09 Shady Sands wrote:
Where did Kush go?
FoS KushM4sta
How long are we going to go tolerating his sheeping OMGUS bullshit? Hi I'm here. I didn't vote for WeeTee beacuse I'm smart and I know hes not mafia. Its dandel and shady who are my two top picks.
You haven't offered a single shred of analysis or evidence back this up. And apart from repeating my name over and over again, you haven't contributed to the scumhunt at all. You even actively sheeped your D1 vote. And you roleclaiming JK is just anti-town, period. It's at best a null tell or gives scum an easy bluesnipe, and at worst (and probably) is an attempt to fakeclaim and bait the real JK to counterclaim. And the really bad part is that you did it purely because instead of defending yourself by making cases you defended yourself by OMGUSing with one liner posts and never contributing any independent analysis at all.
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On August 26 2012 10:49 Spaghetticus wrote:
Sorry guys... I did set an alarm but apparently forgot to turn it on... either that or I turned it off in my sleep... Craaaaaap.
I am not at all happy with how this went down, if I had have been here I probably could have got the bandwagon onto Dandel Ion, which was IMO a much, much better lynch. This is particularly infuriating considering I was going to make a case vs Dandel but my protection of Kush and WeeTee, and my case against Shady, took far too long, and by this time I was pretty much in a zombie state.
Okay it is night time so we need to adjust our scopes and think about night play.
- The JK is almost certainly going to use his action to prove his innocence, that is, the Kush debacle. The town may want to consider trusting Kush to try and actually make use of his ability, I personally believe Kush to be the least questionable town due to his willingness to prove it. If WeeTee was town, then Kush is almost certainly town. We should, if possible, try to utilise him while we have him, rather than wasting valuable JK actions on proving an already certain town to be town.
- I want people to focus in on Shady and Dandel, I will eat my hat without sauce or water if both of these players flip green.
How do you know that WT flipping green makes Kush green?
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Meh.
Work just cut into my freetime like knife into butter.
I didn't know it would, or I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. But now I'm here.
I'll have about ~2 hours of time today in the evening. And probably the same amount for the rest of the week.
Not that I expect this time will help any, with how it looks. So I'm just gonna play GW2 for most of that. I'd much rather do that anyways. If my best fucking efforts to still be active despite everything are still not enough, no need to bother.
Usually the sensible thing would be getting replaced I guess, but the replacement would just get lynched day 2 too, so no need to bother, hm?
A dick move?
Yeah. But I don't care anymore.
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On August 26 2012 20:22 Dandel Ion wrote:
Meh.
Work just cut into my freetime like knife into butter.
I didn't know it would, or I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. But now I'm here.
I'll have about ~2 hours of time today in the evening. And probably the same amount for the rest of the week.
Not that I expect this time will help any, with how it looks. So I'm just gonna play GW2 for most of that. I'd much rather do that anyways. If my best fucking efforts to still be active despite everything are still not enough, no need to bother.
Usually the sensible thing would be getting replaced I guess, but the replacement would just get lynched day 2 too, so no need to bother, hm?
A dick move?
Yeah. But I don't care anymore.
What the hell? Town hasn't been pushing you nearly as hard as Kush or WT or even me, for that matter. If you've got some time now, spit out your reads. And asking to quit like this is just bad play. If you're going to AFK from thread because you don't like the game anymore, PM a mod, don't say it in the thread.
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It's not that I'm getting pressured.
I really have shit to do, believe it or not.
If you want me to pz out and get replaced, I can do it. But I don't see the point.
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On August 26 2012 20:22 Dandel Ion wrote:
Meh.
Work just cut into my freetime like knife into butter.
I didn't know it would, or I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. But now I'm here.
I'll have about ~2 hours of time today in the evening. And probably the same amount for the rest of the week.
Not that I expect this time will help any, with how it looks. So I'm just gonna play GW2 for most of that. I'd much rather do that anyways. If my best fucking efforts to still be active despite everything are still not enough, no need to bother.
Usually the sensible thing would be getting replaced I guess, but the replacement would just get lynched day 2 too, so no need to bother, hm?
A dick move?
Yeah. But I don't care anymore.
So what are you going to do? This statement...
On August 26 2012 20:22 Dandel Ion wrote:usually the sensible thing would be getting replaced I guess, but the replacement would just get lynched day 2 too, so no need to bother, hm?
...makes it look like you are going to stay in the game. But if you don't care about the game, then why would you remain in it? If you truly don't want to play anymore then you should drop out and ask for a replacement.
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@thrawn you are right about that last minute change to weetee to protect dandel ion being very suspecious. Let us see who precipitated this change...
the first person so start changing peoples minds was shady.
On August 26 2012 05:15 Shady Sands wrote:
I dont buy Lvdr's Dandel case. I think he's trying to sheep town into a mislynch. More coming soon.
His case was basically Lvdr had accused 3 different people, which discredits him because is too many, even though shady himself has accused I think 4 people.
Then later there is this gem.
On August 26 2012 05:44 Shady Sands wrote:
Unless your read on Dandel is 100% scum, you should be voting WeeTee.
Who can have a 100% read day 1? It's impossible.
Furthermore, he has not explained why he is the only person who still suspects me. I mean many people have said it, my innocence can be CONFIRMED. Yet he still wants to lynch me and suspects me? I guess he is just ignoring this glaring inconsistency under the guise of not wanting to discuss me because I'm a waste of time. Yet he will waste time calling me out when im absent from the thread for a few hours.
And now for his latest remark.
On August 26 2012 20:10 Shady Sands wrote:
Either you believe Kush or you don't, Dandel. And if you don't, Kush is a clear lynch.
It's not either you believe me or you don't. Have you ever heard of uncertainty, shady? Or are you just pressuring people into lynching townies again?
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eeh, guess I'm gonna ask for a replacement.
Don't think it'll do shit, but w/e you guys want.
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On August 26 2012 20:33 Dandel Ion wrote:
eeh, guess I'm gonna ask for a replacement.
Don't think it'll do shit, but w/e you guys want.
Ok. Leave your final reads here so that we have something to work off of.
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My reads before the flip:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579¤tpage=16#314
Pretty much the same now, except that Lvdr has lied on multiple occasions now.
It's puzzeling that nobody seems to have a problem with that, but w/e.
I don't believe kush's claim, and somebody asked me why I didn't vote for him then. It should be a no-brainer, but:
If he isn't JK, it's gonna come out after night 1.
If he is, we have a JK.
No matter how small I find the possibility, lynching kush day 1 would have been the worst play in fucking history, and I may be a lot of things, but I'm not THAT much of a moron.
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On August 26 2012 20:44 Dandel Ion wrote:My reads before the flip: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579¤tpage=16#314Pretty much the same now, except that Lvdr has lied on multiple occasions now. It's puzzeling that nobody seems to have a problem with that, but w/e. I don't believe kush's claim, and somebody asked me why I didn't vote for him then. It should be a no-brainer, but: If he isn't JK, it's gonna come out after night 1. If he is, we have a JK. No matter how small I find the possibility, lynching kush day 1 would have been the worst play in fucking history, and I may be a lot of things, but I'm not THAT much of a moron.
Ok. So is your read on Lvdr that he is scum now or not?
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Damn this latest development with dandel ion not giving a shit makes both him and shady seem quite innocent.
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On August 26 2012 20:31 kushm4sta wrote:@thrawn you are right about that last minute change to weetee to protect dandel ion being very suspecious. Let us see who precipitated this change... the first person so start changing peoples minds was shady. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 05:15 Shady Sands wrote:
I dont buy Lvdr's Dandel case. I think he's trying to sheep town into a mislynch. More coming soon. His case was basically Lvdr had accused 3 different people, which discredits him because is too many, even though shady himself has accused I think 4 people. Then later there is this gem. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 05:44 Shady Sands wrote:
Unless your read on Dandel is 100% scum, you should be voting WeeTee. Who can have a 100% read day 1? It's impossible. Furthermore, he has not explained why he is the only person who still suspects me. I mean many people have said it, my innocence can be CONFIRMED. Yet he still wants to lynch me and suspects me? I guess he is just ignoring this glaring inconsistency under the guise of not wanting to discuss me because I'm a waste of time. Yet he will waste time calling me out when im absent from the thread for a few hours. And now for his latest remark. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:10 Shady Sands wrote:
Either you believe Kush or you don't, Dandel. And if you don't, Kush is a clear lynch. It's not either you believe me or you don't. Have you ever heard of uncertainty, shady? Or are you just pressuring people into lynching townies again?
Again, Kush isn't listening to others or making a good case. My case on Lvdr is not in how many people he was accusing but the way in which he was doing it. He was FoSing and voting people without giving them a chance to respond, in the last 12 hours before the lynch. And he was rapidly switching his targets as he did so. This is a classic scum technique to find out who is AFK/busy so they can set up a mislynch wagon, especially given that most of the town was undecided at that point.
And I did explain why I suspect you. Read this post:
On August 26 2012 20:19 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:02 kushm4sta wrote:On August 26 2012 06:09 Shady Sands wrote:
Where did Kush go?
FoS KushM4sta
How long are we going to go tolerating his sheeping OMGUS bullshit? Hi I'm here. I didn't vote for WeeTee beacuse I'm smart and I know hes not mafia. Its dandel and shady who are my two top picks. You haven't offered a single shred of analysis or evidence back this up. And apart from repeating my name over and over again, you haven't contributed to the scumhunt at all. You even actively sheeped your D1 vote. And you roleclaiming JK is just anti-town, period. It's at best a null tell or gives scum an easy bluesnipe, and at worst (and probably) is an attempt to fakeclaim and bait the real JK to counterclaim. And the really bad part is that you did it purely because instead of defending yourself by making cases you defended yourself by OMGUSing with one liner posts and never contributing any independent analysis at all.
I can't explain why I'm the only person that suspects you because that would mean I could magically mind read other people's logic. I don't buy your JK claim at all. Never have, never will, unless you die and flip JK. Even if someone else claims they were RB'd, it could just be your scumbuddy in which case woohoo! We have our two scum.
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On August 26 2012 20:48 kushm4sta wrote:
Damn this latest development with dandel ion not giving a shit makes both him and shady seem quite innocent.
Why, because he's playing like you now?
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Now that Dandel is going to be replaced what does everyone think about him being a D2 lynch target? Whoever the replacement is, I don't think we should ask them to defend anything that Dandel said earlier in the thread. The replacement should only be held accountable for his/her posts. I say each person should evaluate Dandel's posts and form a read on them and then leave his case at that for the time being. (my read is scummy) But until the replacement has a chance to post and scumhunt we shouldn't go for a lynch on them unless their N1/D2 actions are scummy.
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My thoughts on it are that I would much prefer a lynch on Shady, as although I am suspicious of Dandel, this recent lack of interest is either a very good self bus play, or genuine disinterest, which I would not expect from a scum player.
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On August 26 2012 21:33 Spaghetticus wrote:
My thoughts on it are that I would much prefer a lynch on Shady, as although I am suspicious of Dandel, this recent lack of interest is either a very good self bus play, or genuine disinterest, which I would not expect from a scum player.
Is your case the same or do you have anything else to add because I wasn't convinced by your original case.
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And is it just me or has Kush suddenly become easily understandable? I don't only refer to how he is generally presenting a similar position to me, but his writing has improved faster than I thought possible.
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On August 26 2012 21:36 Spaghetticus wrote:
And is it just me or has Kush suddenly become easily understandable? I don't only refer to how he is generally presenting a similar position to me, but his writing has improved faster than I thought possible.
That is because I had no idea what was going on and now I understand better how this game works.
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EPT
