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On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote:Alright guys take a breather... sheesh. Especially you Divinek: Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:57 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 13:45 tree.hugger wrote:On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb The reason it was introduced in the first place what completely ridiculous. Nothing smart about any of it. We should lynch people for good reasons, not dumb ones. I'm still looking for more nominations for people to lynch. I think those three are a good start. Time to pick one, yes? How about I PM five people a list of the candidates in order, and then someone in the thread will choose a number from 1-3? but WHY was it ridiculous, WHY was it not smart, WHY were the reasons dumb. You might as well have not posted as there was no substance to what you just said Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 15:29 Divinek wrote:
How is voting for some one cause of a long , useful post defending himself pretty well? He said in other games he has been quiet but that doesnt mean that shit is gonna fly here. And he didnt really say why someone who makes a long post is a scum or anything.
I dont feel he really defended himself well at all You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back. Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often? I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay?
Hmm... I was actually considering unvoting you if Darth was going to be safe. But this just changed my mine. To quote an earlier post by you, in which you were (seeming to) defend your voting of Sinquity:
On July 18 2010 12:23 Hyperbola wrote:
Hrm. Exactly what scum would do.
Starting a bandwagon against me when I've accused one of their operatives.
And SiNiquity, you took your time to write another rather lengthy post against me. I'm quite flattered but this is quite suspicious in my book. You almost seem on edge and unload the big guns on a random passerby on the street who looked you the wrong way.
And as a semi-legitimate defense: I'm quite quiet in all of my games. Yes I have been mafia in some but I've also had my fair share of green and blue roles.
You've picked the wrong person to act as your scapegoat bucko.
Note the italized section. When compared to your most recent post, it just doesn't make sense. Instead of saying "Oh lol, dw I was jk," you actually defend yourself. The bolded section could be a ill-placed attempt at continuing the joke, but the italized section just shows that you were trying to defend your voting of Sinquity.
So in my eyes, you were going to go as long as you could trying to get people to vote Sinquity but now that you are in danger of being lynched, you try to pass it off as a joke. If you your second post had indeed been "Oh lol, dw I was jk" I would have unvoted you. Now it's just too sketchy to let you off the hook.
Other People's thoughts?
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It looks like it's a toss up between hyperbola(5), DTA(3), and myself(4).
I personally think the bandwagon on hyperbola is the dumbest thing in the world. Everyone that's been on that bandwagon should have their posts as to why they jumped on analysed later on.
The main argument against DTA is that he's lurking as scum so that he doesn't draw attention to himself. You've put your pressure on him and he isn't responding. A lurker would pop up and defend himself, especially with only about 5 1/2 hours 'til the deadline.
As for myself, the bandwagon is less stupid than hyperbola's because it actually has a reason/substance behind it. However, it's still pretty bad because I'm being targeted because I offered a plan and generated discussion.
This is why lynching on the first day is a terrible, terrible idea. The scum can blend in with the town so well and even lurk a bit. They'll just leave people to lynch each other on the first day or two and before you know it, it's lylo. No lynching is a gift, use it. If not, lynch an inactive (someone that's about to be modkilled).
I am 99% certain that whoever gets lynched today will not be scum, simply because it is way too easy for scum not to draw attention on the first day.
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@ Pandain: It's normal for people to defend themselves. I do it, Barack Obama does it, and you do it.
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It's already been established that not lynching someone on the first day is a horrible decision, why are you still pushing for it?
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I think youngminii has a point. I think we should keep an eye on hyperbola and him but not lynch them.
DTA is probably just inactive town. But in that case we have no need for him either. So he is a decent alternative.
I will follow citizen though to create a third alternative.
##Unvote
##vote ketomai
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On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote:Alright guys take a breather... sheesh. Especially you Divinek: Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:57 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 13:45 tree.hugger wrote:On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb The reason it was introduced in the first place what completely ridiculous. Nothing smart about any of it. We should lynch people for good reasons, not dumb ones. I'm still looking for more nominations for people to lynch. I think those three are a good start. Time to pick one, yes? How about I PM five people a list of the candidates in order, and then someone in the thread will choose a number from 1-3? but WHY was it ridiculous, WHY was it not smart, WHY were the reasons dumb. You might as well have not posted as there was no substance to what you just said Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 15:29 Divinek wrote:
How is voting for some one cause of a long , useful post defending himself pretty well? He said in other games he has been quiet but that doesnt mean that shit is gonna fly here. And he didnt really say why someone who makes a long post is a scum or anything.
I dont feel he really defended himself well at all You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back.Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often? I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay?
I'd like to elaborate on this more, in fact. I will be supporting my view via the use of italized and bolded sections of previoius posts, which I love to do(in case you haven't found out.)
Note the bolded section(XD). Despite the fact that he is trying to pass off his two posts accusing Sinquity as a joke(one of them defending the previous post)*, he still accuses Divenek despite the fact that I believe Divenek was on the right side this time. After all, Hyperbola did just accuse Sinquity of being mafia based on the fact he was "contributing too much", and then Hyperbola continued to defend that. In every post Hyperbola has made so far, it has (at least slightly) accused someone.
+ Show Spoiler +Note the underlined section. Now, this may be getting too far in(probably), but might as well as Mafia is incredibally psychologically centered. Spill the beans? Why did you have to hide it? Note: I have decided to spoiler this as this is the weakest of these points and thus should only be used as subtle observation, in no way to be used as a valid reason to lynch him.
I just find Hyperbola's posts these games to be highly questionable. This post in no way is even my main points, you can view the previous pages as to why I voted Hyperbola. Please look them over and decide for yourselves. And of course, if you have an opposing viewpoint, please share. Lynching is a final decision, there is no turning back after.
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On July 19 2010 03:41 youngminii wrote:
@ Pandain: It's normal for people to defend themselves. I do it, Barack Obama does it, and you do it.
Except Hypberola just said he was "joking" all along. Why would he defend himself then?
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On July 19 2010 03:46 chaoser wrote:
It's already been established that not lynching someone on the first day is a horrible decision, why are you still pushing for it?
I completely agree with your philosophy that if some people disagree with you, you should just back down and give up on your ideas.
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On July 19 2010 02:27 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
###vote youngminii
if I have to trust someone I trust xelin. I'm going to follow his decisions till the end of the day at least.
Sorry got to the game early so I read some posts :D Why exactly do you trust Xelin out of all the players here? As for the hyperbola bandwagon: I didn't really mean to actually start the bandwagon xD I just pointed out that his posts don't provide substance at all, and his defense is very poor. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote:
You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back.
Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often?
I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay? and I think this came a way too late. Why not say this when defending himself the first time? He's just asking to be lynched...
Got a break for a minute. In every game xelin plays the most levelheaded and I know his opinions have taken serious consideration. I know it someone is going to ve good to follow it's xelin or opz
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On July 19 2010 03:48 Pandain wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote:Alright guys take a breather... sheesh. Especially you Divinek: Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 13:57 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 13:45 tree.hugger wrote:On July 18 2010 13:09 Divinek wrote:On July 18 2010 12:30 tree.hugger wrote:
And this bandwagon against Hyperbola is just dumb.
## Vote Laxercannon why is it dumb The reason it was introduced in the first place what completely ridiculous. Nothing smart about any of it. We should lynch people for good reasons, not dumb ones. I'm still looking for more nominations for people to lynch. I think those three are a good start. Time to pick one, yes? How about I PM five people a list of the candidates in order, and then someone in the thread will choose a number from 1-3? but WHY was it ridiculous, WHY was it not smart, WHY were the reasons dumb. You might as well have not posted as there was no substance to what you just said Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 15:29 Divinek wrote:
How is voting for some one cause of a long , useful post defending himself pretty well? He said in other games he has been quiet but that doesnt mean that shit is gonna fly here. And he didnt really say why someone who makes a long post is a scum or anything.
I dont feel he really defended himself well at all You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back.Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often? I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay? I'd like to elaborate on this more, in fact. I will be supporting my view via the use of italized and bolded sections of previoius posts, which I love to do(in case you haven't found out.) Note the bolded section(XD). Despite the fact that he is trying to pass off his two posts accusing Sinquity as a joke(one of them defending the previous post)*, he still accuses Divenek despite the fact that I believe Divenek was on the right side this time. After all, Hyperbola did just accuse Sinquity of being mafia based on the fact he was "contributing too much", and then Hyperbola continued to defend that. In every post Hyperbola has made so far, it has (at least slightly) accused someone. + Show Spoiler +Note the underlined section. Now, this may be getting too far in(probably), but might as well as Mafia is incredibally psychologically centered. Spill the beans? Why did you have to hide it? Note: I have decided to spoiler this as this is the weakest of these points and thus should only be used as subtle observation, in no way to be used as a valid reason to lynch him. I just find Hyperbola's posts these games to be highly questionable. This post in no way is even my main points, you can view the previous pages as to why I voted Hyperbola. Please look them over and decide for yourselves. And of course, if you have an opposing viewpoint, please share. Lynching is a final decision, there is no turning back after.
This actually intrigues me a bit. I honestly believe hyperbola is either a townie or a really really really bad scum. There's no way in your right might you would say 'nah all my posts were just jokes, don't worry' if you were scum because that's outright stupid. It's drawing unnecessary attention (ie. the post I'm quoting) and would be something an honest, naive townie would do.
Of course, if he ends up flipping red I'll eat my own arm.
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On July 19 2010 03:37 youngminii wrote:
It looks like it's a toss up between hyperbola(5), DTA(3), and myself(4).
I personally think the bandwagon on hyperbola is the dumbest thing in the world. Everyone that's been on that bandwagon should have their posts as to why they jumped on analysed later on.
The main argument against DTA is that he's lurking as scum so that he doesn't draw attention to himself. You've put your pressure on him and he isn't responding. A lurker would pop up and defend himself, especially with only about 5 1/2 hours 'til the deadline.
As for myself, the bandwagon is less stupid than hyperbola's because it actually has a reason/substance behind it. However, it's still pretty bad because I'm being targeted because I offered a plan and generated discussion.
This is why lynching on the first day is a terrible, terrible idea. The scum can blend in with the town so well and even lurk a bit. They'll just leave people to lynch each other on the first day or two and before you know it, it's lylo. No lynching is a gift, use it. If not, lynch an inactive (someone that's about to be modkilled).
I am 99% certain that whoever gets lynched today will not be scum, simply because it is way too easy for scum not to draw attention on the first day.
Though it may seem that way at first inspection, the reality of the issue is that what it really does is take away town options.
- One reason is the town gets only so many lynches before Mafia wins if they don't catch them. one of those lynches is the Day 1 lynch. so if we have 6 lynches to reach LYLO then not voting on day 1 makes it 5.
- Another reason is that even though it has poor odds of hitting scum it is still better than the 0% chance the mafia has when doing their hits
- Also the other problem is that come day 2 all abstaining has done is reset the game count with less town players and the same mafia amount.
- it reduces town knowledge because we have no voting lists to inspect since all the mafia voted the exact same way as town. Less discussion to analyze because every one could just vote abstain and be done with it.
It really is a terribly bad play, hopefully this will help clear things up and we can move on to lynching scum.
youngminii, if I am missing something please let me know, but hopefully now you can see that the no lynch plan is a terrible plan.
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[*]I firmly believe that none of our prime suspects for Day 1 is scum. This means we'll have one less townie (possibly even blue) from Day 2 onwards than we would have if it was no lynch.
[*]Scenario 1: We do lynch someone. There's an 80% chance that person is not scum, statistically speaking. From my point of view, our suspects are not prime scum candidates. If that person isn't scum, then mafia still has 0% chance of hitting scum at night. Scenario 2: We don't lynch someone. The mafia has 0% chance of hitting scum at night. It's the same scenario with less casualties.
[*]DTs will have checked people and can start forming trust groups. Gameplay in mafia tends to evolve the longer the game goes on and with days only being 48hrs on TL, there's not that much time for the game to evolve.
[*]We have plenty to inspect, look at all that's happened so far.
I know that this plan isn't going to go through but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop defending it.
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The town will always have more of a chance to hit town than to hit scum purely based on the fact that the game ends once there is a 50/50. That is why we need every lynch because every lynch helps.
The reason we have so much to inspect is because people aren't using this plan, if we were then we would all sit back abstaining.
I don't think you are necessarily mafia, as this plan puts a lot of light on you and really never had a chance to work but I am going to look back and see who joined on quickly as it would be an easy way for mafia to hide.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On July 19 2010 04:30 youngminii wrote:
fail
Essentially. Voting lists are one of the best ways to catch mafia. They spread out across them in predictable patterns, and once you catch one mafia, you can gain a ton of information by looking at the voting lists. It's much better than post analysis, which is always touch and go. If you give people an out by establishing an abstain bandwagon, then you're just handcuffing the town.
And you may still be convinced that your strategy is the right one, but it's obviously not going to happen, and it's time you dropped the issue, so the town can move on. Wasting space, and distracting people from the task at hand is counter productive for obvious reasons.
On July 19 2010 03:37 youngminii wrote:
It looks like it's a toss up between hyperbola(5), DTA(3), and myself(4).
On July 19 2010 03:46 lakrismamma wrote:
I will follow citizen though to create a third alternative.
##Unvote
##vote ketomai
That's a fourth alternative. Also, for everyone's reference, this is a vote moved from Subversion.
So we have
Hyperbola (5)
Darth (3)
youngminii (4)
Ketomai (2)
I believe BrownBear, Subversion, and Ketomai have not yet voted.
***
At this point, I think people who have not voted for one of these four people (and in particular, the first three) should reconsider their votes, and select one of these players to lynch. Optimally we'll have three lists, and everyone on one of those lists, which should make mafia spotting a little easier. Again, I'd like to push a lynch on Darth. He's smart, and he knows he's not under the cosh yet. Hyperbola and youngminii have tried to defend themselves, but Darth hasn't lifted a finger, which I think it smart. If you're winning, leave well enough alone. But I'd like to punish him for it, and I encourage others to join.
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On July 18 2010 17:34 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
My thoughts: hyperbola is prolly just a quick trigger townie; I'd think a mafia would be too skittish to CONTINUE with it, especially when voting is so thin at this point. Mafia wouldn't have to be desperate as of now. Townie or red, hyperbola is obviously desperate now, with so many votes against him. But the desperation started and caused the bandwagon (according to Pandain). When the hyperbola bandwagon started, voting was evened out so there wouldn't be a need for mafia to bandwagon on someone. Mafia don't really tend to bandwagon anyone day one, at least they don't start the first bandwagon. They might start a second bandwagon to save someone's ass. Doesn't really help prove anyone innocent but I think hyperbola's behavior could be townie and the voting against him could be townie too. In better words, neither action really stick out at me as suspicious but no one's exonerated. Maybe if a team of people desperately work to save him there could be something going on.
I'd like to hear why foolishness is so quiet this game. I've seen him in games as green and games as blue (DT). Both times he was really active and talkative and was somewhat of a leader with plans and so on. I've never seen him quiet and I've never seen him red. Could be an irl thing, could be something else.
Darth...'s plan to "maximize" deaths on Day 1 strikes me as poor thinking. I get that it gets us information, so this could certainly be a townie sentiment. However, I've been red in many past games and I often got pissed off at how much harder it could be to win with just one more townie alive at the end, due to a non-lynch or something similar.
At this point, my vote really is between Darth and hyperbola because it seems too late to rally the town anywhere else. Hyperbola strikes me as green running mouth. The reactions to that at least give the town something, even if he's red. Darth's hanging back and saying something that could be a subtle red move or a legitimate townie move.
Yeah I double checked his other posts, and everything else is Darth clown spamming. As someone nicely put it: he's playing like Chezinu. So I can't be made to feel guilty about voting for him.
##unvote
##vote DarthTheinAn
In my experience, mafia rarely actually "bandwagon". One or two might hop in for the final vote to kill someone they don't like over the current top target, but usually, they just vote wherever they feel like, based on their posting and what they've said in the past.
The hyperbola bandwagon is just plain stupid imo. Anyone who was "convinced" by Siniquity's argument against hyperbola is also plain stupid. He gave poor reasoning for a random vote, but that does not make him mafia. A lot of the times, mafia play more like Siniquity, pointing out "mistakes" that townies make, and calling them scummy.
My post was to contrast YellowInk's silly no lynch suggestion. Why are we even considering that? We need information. The game is about getting information for the town ASAP so that we can lynch/KP accurately. Therefore, we lynch a someone who is not already going to be modkilled. Pandain, I was only half-joking about it. Lynch someone who has voted but is not helping the town out. Someone like me, but, preferably, not me.
And you're right, I was playing like Chezinu ^_^. He has inspired me.
I might be out for the rest of today. Before you lynch me, consider how many other people have not posted, but have voted. For instance, d3, who is currently voting for me, but has said as little as I have said.
Also, don't PM Opz, PM me!! ^^.
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On July 19 2010 04:53 tree.hugger wrote:Essentially. Voting lists are one of the best ways to catch mafia. They spread out across them in predictable patterns, and once you catch one mafia, you can gain a ton of information by looking at the voting lists. It's much better than post analysis, which is always touch and go. If you give people an out by establishing an abstain bandwagon, then you're just handcuffing the town. And you may still be convinced that your strategy is the right one, but it's obviously not going to happen, and it's time you dropped the issue, so the town can move on. Wasting space, and distracting people from the task at hand is counter productive for obvious reasons. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 03:37 youngminii wrote:
It looks like it's a toss up between hyperbola(5), DTA(3), and myself(4).
Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 03:46 lakrismamma wrote:
I will follow citizen though to create a third alternative.
##Unvote
##vote ketomai That's a fourth alternative. Also, for everyone's reference, this is a vote moved from Subversion. So we have Hyperbola (5) Darth (3) youngminii (4) Ketomai (2) I believe BrownBear, Subversion, and Ketomai have not yet voted. *** At this point, I think people who have not voted for one of these four people (and in particular, the first three) should reconsider their votes, and select one of these players to lynch. Optimally we'll have three lists, and everyone on one of those lists, which should make mafia spotting a little easier. Again, I'd like to push a lynch on Darth. He's smart, and he knows he's not under the cosh yet. Hyperbola and youngminii have tried to defend themselves, but Darth hasn't lifted a finger, which I think it smart. If you're winning, leave well enough alone. But I'd like to punish him for it, and I encourage others to join.
If ketomai hasn't posted, why are we lynching him? He's going to get modkilled anyway.
I don't get on as much these days, since I've been on vacation. The last 8+ pages or so, I wasn't present for, need to catch up on the last two later still.
On July 19 2010 00:53 Amber[LighT] wrote:
##vote: abstain.
Haven't read the thread and won't ve able to
Until later
Switch him out for Amber[Light] imo.
unvote
##Vote: Amber[LighT]
If you disagree with my plan, let me explain my train of thought. People are going to get modkilled. We want to get rid of mafia. Modkills are going to kill those people anyway, therefore we should lynch someone who would not be modkilled. There are plenty of people who are being unhelpful. I am an example of it - look through to find more people like me. I don't have time to find people like that, but again, d3 is an example. Misder might be an example iirc. Chaoser would be an example. Therefore, we lynch one of those kinds of people, and help the town out by not being worried about it later (is this person mafia lurking or just inactive?) etc etc.
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ebwop: did I say YellowInk? I think I meant youngminii. lol.
Anyway, later all. Probably be back after the vote. Hope you guys don't kill me.
Death Post:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 19 2010 05:17 DarthThienAn wrote:ebwop: did I say YellowInk? I think I meant youngminii. lol. Anyway, later all. Probably be back after the vote. Hope you guys don't kill me. Death Post: + Show Spoiler +
What does death post mean?
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EPT
