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Scum lynches:
SNMMII - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins
RTM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins
WaW2 - Brazilian Conspirator - Mafia/Conspirator Wins
Merc Mini 2 - Juliet - Town wins
BC's AA - Joker - Batman/Town wins
EHM - Citizen - Town Wins
SHM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins
Mini Mafia x - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins
XLV - Red Pyro - Mafia Wins
PYP:I - Ace - Town Wins
Town Lynches:
XLIV - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins
LOTR - Gollum - Gollum/Town Wins
XLVII - Vanilla Town - Draw
Steamship - Records Cop - Mafia Wins
SMG - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins
Student - Vanilla Town - Town Wins
XLVIII - Floridian - Mafia Wins
RM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins
CHM - Doctor - Eldrict Abomination Wins
Personality - Flamewheel - Mafia Wins
SNMMV - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins
PTP2 - Mafia Traitor - Town Wins
CCM - Virgin - Mafia Wins
PTP - Bro of Destiny - Town Wins
SNMMIII - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins
##Unvote GMarshal
##Vote L
You just fucked up bro.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
^^How does that make any sense Palmar
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Do you see any town motivation for him trying to get me hanged based on calling me a liar about day 1 lynch ratio? Would you apply lynch all liars if I told you the world was flat or the eagles were good at football?
It's irrelevant to the game.
If you're talking about the list, it's simply all the games I've played from my profile, sorted depending on what got lynched on day one. The format is: Game name - My role - Win faction.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
No, I see his motivation (for voting you) based on his analysis on how town should proceed day 1 given the game setup. That VisceraEyes is most surely town because of his fearless posting, and that trigger roles are likely to soften up normally aggressive players.
Now I see you counter voting him based on day 1 lynch ratio's, and seemingly nothing else.
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Are you not reading the thread?
He just voted me because I "lied" about day 1 lynch ratios, which is irrelevant to the game. Him voting me for that is however not irrelevant to the game.
I agree on VisceraEyes being town, that's why I actually spent all that energy defending me. I don't see what his alignment has anything to do with what L just did?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 22 2011 03:52 syllogism wrote:
As a side note, I find it quite annoying how many people accepted the invite despite being too busy to actually play the game as they can't all be mafia. Just look at the length of the replacement queue; I would wager the vast majority of them would be willing to put more effort into the game than the people currently playing.
Fear not syllo, I am lurking in the wings and ready to leap into action.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote:
So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry.
...
I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him.
VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this.
He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts.
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Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck?
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you're not this dumb Foolishness, if you cannot see how retarded L's vote on me is, then you must be scum yourself.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote:
Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck?
Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time.
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On December 22 2011 05:02 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote:
Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck? Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time.
No, now you explain why you don't want to vote for L based on this.
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On December 22 2011 04:54 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote:
So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry.
...
I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him.
VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts.
What do you think of Palmar Foolishness? You seem to be quite willing to comment on others reasoning to this point while providing none of your own. If you had to vote this very moment who would you vote for and why? Actually you've said damn little this game so far.
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United States2186 Posts
Several players notified me beforehand that they would be busy in the first one to two days. This is acceptable. However, inactivity in day 2 and beyond will be met with swift replacements (outside of christmas/ and christmas eve naturally). If this is a problem for anyone please speak with me and let me know as soon as you'll be active.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:03 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:02 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote:
Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck? Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time. No, now you explain why you don't want to vote for L based on this.
no
On December 22 2011 05:04 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 04:54 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote:
So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry.
...
I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him.
VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts. What do you think of Palmar Foolishness? You seem to be quite willing to comment on others reasoning to this point while providing none of your own. If you had to vote this very moment who would you vote for and why? Actually you've said damn little this game so far.
With regards to Palmar, this is the most important post he's made thus far:
On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:
Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to.
Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread.
Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post.
In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default.
And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK?
There's no way any mafia would make a post like that.
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Just to get it into your heads. The post Foolishness quotes says very little about L's read on me, his reasons for voting me come later, in this post:
On December 22 2011 04:09 L wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 03:44 Palmar wrote:
Just because I hate shit like that L
I've played 25 games I think now on this site, 10 of those had mafia lynched on day one.
That's 60% chance of a town lynch on day one, not 98%. That's entirely not the case in my experience, nor is it the case on mafiascum. Mafiascum has roughly an 80% VT D1 lynch rate, a 10% Goon D1 lynch rate, and a 10%blue lynch rate. Oddly enough, the prevalence of D1 goon lynches is often a planned gambit to protect the roleblocker and end the game that way. Given the 13/3 setup, given a random distribution of hits you'd assume that mafia would be killed approximately 20% of the time on day 1. That isn't the case. Mafia have easy outs on D1 which means barring any catastrophic play, their deaths are planned if they occur on D1. I actually just looked at your post history ordered by threads and checked your last 7-8 games back until couples therapy. A single game had a mafia D1 lynched. Mafia used it as a gambit in a small format. Which means either you're lying, or the 17-18 games before that had a 60% mafia D1 lynch rate despite your games fitting perfectly into the standard MS pattern of play. As far as D1 lynches go, I'm pretty down with going after a confirmed liar. ##Vote: PalmarBut seriously, I need to go do work. Later.
Sure, I was the asshole who started the argument, but that doesn't matter. I just told L he was wrong about the success rates, at least from my experience.
If I'm wrong or right doesn't however actually matter to the game at hand. If I said "Town always lynches mafia on day 1" I'm obviously lying, but that doesn't make me scum, and L knows this. Now, I happened to be telling the truth this time, as I proved, but really, that's irrelevant.
What's important is that L is willing to lynch me based on a comment that doesn't affect the game we're playing, on some Lynch all Liars policy. There is no reason a townie would ever do what L did, and the simple explanation is that he must be scum.
Like his only possible defense is that the idea is SO dumb that he wouldn't do it as scum, but I've been told L is good at this game. He saw a possible lynch and went for it.
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RE: List
Can you do me a favor and unjargon the names on that list? Because I've run through a number of games that you've been in like Election Mafia (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720) that I can't see on your list.
The games I saw by searching for your thread posts are the following:
Election Mafia
TL Mafia XLVIII
Student Mafia (New/Newish players welcome)
TL Mafia XLVII
Mini Mafia X
Steamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46)
Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy
I saw Dethy too, but it hasn't started?
So, of the most recent games you've been a part of, as a frequent commentator, a member of a hydra, a host or otherwise, 6 town first lynches, 1 mafia first lynch. Yet here you are arguing that me essentially repeating your own recent experience is a reason to sling shit at me. I have no idea if what's in your profile is true, but given Election Mafia, I know that your list isn't complete. I also know that it ignores a bunch of other games that you've been involved with.
Can't find out why there would be motivation for calling you on a blatant contradiction which falls squarely into my 'throw shit as quietly as possible' objective for mafia in my analysis? Its all right there:
You start with a post about post quality.
You then post one liners.
You attack me for making a post partially about post quality.
You attempt to play nice with your most ardent accuser for hours.
You post content mostly when attacked.
Your play is very dissimilar to your standard town play.
Your first sustained conviction (if that's what this turns out to be) is as a chainsaw defense.
And that's pretty much it. All of the above list can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Palmar&gb=forum&d=create
The seven point list can be very easily verfied using Palmar's filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384&user=87086
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia. No, I said I'm conflicted, which means there's doubt about you.
Why? Because the metric says you're pretty town-like, but only kinda. You were aggressive, yes, but not to the point of creating rivalries. You started off with a whole host of shit flinging early game, which is standard for mafia; accuse lots of people early, jump back to that suspicion later as needed. You did so in a manner in which the accusations were relatively low in threat level. You kept your posts short, posted with very little explanation to open yourself up for critique and largely ignored calls for more elaborate posts until you were specifically attacked by VE who made it pretty clear that you were rival material.
But then like I said there are some substantive, constructive posts, like the one that Foolishness just mentioned, which edge into territory which mafia would not waltz into.
Some of the vote was an attempt to prod you into taking an action. For starters, you only really post substantive content when you're threatened. The chainsaw defense made you look REALLY scum, but the talk with Foolishness makes you look pretty townie. If you believe that I've baited you into a response, you probably also think that I can shoot you during the night, which means that you'd NEED to kill me today if I had a triggered vig hit. If you were a mafia member, you'd probably also have someone else push this train forwards because most people in north america should be available to post right now.
I think you're either mafia, a hatter or a DT looking to attract protection. Alternatively you've got some kind of cross vote trigger and you're a vig.
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On December 22 2011 05:11 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:03 Palmar wrote:On December 22 2011 05:02 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote:
Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck? Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time. No, now you explain why you don't want to vote for L based on this. no + Show Spoiler +On December 22 2011 05:04 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 04:54 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote:
So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry.
...
I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him.
VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts. What do you think of Palmar Foolishness? You seem to be quite willing to comment on others reasoning to this point while providing none of your own. If you had to vote this very moment who would you vote for and why? Actually you've said damn little this game so far. With regards to Palmar, this is the most important post he's made thus far: + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:
Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to.
Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread.
Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post.
In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default.
And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK? There's no way any mafia would make a post like that.
So are you defending L or Palmar? You say Palmar can't be mafia yet you can justify L's vote on him. I'm confused.
I've never played with L before that I can recall but I did play as L in personality mafia. He apparently has issues with Bill Murray.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:30 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:11 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 05:03 Palmar wrote:On December 22 2011 05:02 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 05:00 Palmar wrote:
Are you trolling me Foolishness?
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia.
Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything?
What the fuck? Just forget it, we're wasting each others' time. No, now you explain why you don't want to vote for L based on this. no + Show Spoiler +On December 22 2011 05:04 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 04:54 Foolishness wrote:On December 22 2011 03:35 L wrote:
So, from the get go I'd eliminate most of the players who have been voting for others, those who are aggressively asking questions of others as potential targets for the day 1 lynch. Additionally, I'd put more suspicion on players who are overly apologetic at this stage in the game. That said, i wouldn't link suspicion to post count or length directly because there's an impetus from everyone to minimize their exposure to triggers. That said, voting is less of a town-tell than aggravating people; voting is important insofar as it establishes a rivalry.
...
I'm somewhat more conflicted with respect to Palmar because he fit this profile to a T prior to me going to sleep last night, then he started contributing. I'm not sure if that's because people started singling him out as a bullshit one-line poster and actually voting for him on that basis, but if the above is correct he'd probably not have been willing to engage VE for that long as mafia, and consequently VE is probably town because he pushed through an overt warning of Palmar's regarding him becoming annoying and kept on him to the point of voting for him.
VE is essentially the green/bluest person in the town in my eyes at the moment because of this. He already thought you were suspicious since the start, you can read the rest of his post for the full story, I just took out the relevant parts. What do you think of Palmar Foolishness? You seem to be quite willing to comment on others reasoning to this point while providing none of your own. If you had to vote this very moment who would you vote for and why? Actually you've said damn little this game so far. With regards to Palmar, this is the most important post he's made thus far: + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:
Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to.
Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread.
Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post.
In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default.
And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK? There's no way any mafia would make a post like that. So are you defending L or Palmar? You say Palmar can't be mafia yet you can justify L's vote on him. I'm confused. I've never played with L before that I can recall but I did play as L in personality mafia. He apparently has issues with Bill Murray.
Yes, I think L justified his vote. He explained himself in his above post. As I implied I do not think Palmar is mafia nor will I be voting for him anytime in the near future. L even agrees with me that Palmar's post that I pointed out is not something a mafia would make.
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If I'm wrong or right doesn't however actually matter to the game at hand. If I said "Town always lynches mafia on day 1" I'm obviously lying, but that doesn't make me scum, and L knows this. Now, I happened to be telling the truth this time, as I proved, but really, that's irrelevant. RE: Irrelevance.
It isn't irrelevant. Assume day 2 rolls around and you state "town always lynches mafia on day 1" in support of re-lynching after day 1 passed with a no-lynch verdict, when the reality is that town very RARELY lynches mafia on day 1. Does that statement seem just as innocuous now if the context implies that you're serious and have a motive behind the statement?
No.
This has been pretty much your only argument thusfar against me and it conceeds the point that there was a lie.
So what's the motive and context behind this statement? I posted a large piece of analysis and you replied with a dismissive chaff post with a lie inside of it. The motive was to discredit my statement while not opening yourself to critique. The context is a slow thread and a near-bottom page position. If that's the case then Syllogism or Mr. Wiggles would be likely mafia buddies; post burying is a pretty standard way to avoid a piece of analysis which fucks your team without drawing attention to it. The alternative is that you're horrendous at this game and make anti-town posts, but are somehow lucky that this game's prevalence of pew pew pistols makes anti-town play somewhat less terrible on an individual level. (odd, that)
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Election mafia is not in there because it's not over. I'm not going to write out the entire list, sorry, just trust me on the fact that lying about this would be as retarded as calling someone out for lying about it. I can do it when I have time to later, or I can send you a pm if I die. It's irrelevant to the game.
Now I'm getting you hanged.
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EPT
