Early game PvZ applying the right pressure - Page 2

On May 29 2006 17:29 NonY wrote:
whether you 9gate or 10gate, the first zealot comes out at about the same time. 9/10 gate gets the 2nd and 3rd zealots out significantly faster than 10/12 gate

On May 29 2006 11:23 Myrmidon wrote:
I like 10/12 as well and use it most PvZ games. People are just interpreting the situation wrong and setting bad goals for the build. On maps with 9 mineral patches in main, a 10/12 gate can pump in 2 probes just before the 2nd pylon is completed for delaying one zeal a couple seconds (so that 2nd/3rd, 4th/5th zeals come out at the same time), thus revving up a healthy econ. Often, the economic advantage over 9/10 far outweighs the extra several seconds on the first zeals.

If you can\'t stop both sunks from going up with appropriate ling defense and know it ahead of time (your 1st zeal isn\'t early enough to stop at least one from completing), that\'s when you know to gas after 3 zeals. If you scout an early enough expo hatch to stop your rush, you can even gas after 1 zeal. A 11 hatch expo zerg that just made 2 sunks (which cost the same as another hatchery) and pumped lings for 4-5 larvae isn\'t ahead of a 10/12 toss. You avoid the awkward timing by teching instead. If they have defense already, they\'ve already delayed econ/tech themselves, so it\'s no problem.

But often, you\'ll see an 11 or 12 expo hatch that\'s not too far away, and you can punish accordingly. You have the option from a 10/12 gate to skip probes and/or send a couple more to accompany your scouting probe, because you get the econ to sustain this eco cut and still pump 2 gate nonstop zeals. With extra early probes at the attack (around the time the 1st zeal arrives), you can, with good micro, often stop some creep colonies from being made, by getting in the way of building sites. And extra probes help zeals 2 hit kill early lings. By targetting new sunken colonies over the expo hatch, you can force the zerg to replace them with new sunkens, further straining the zerg eco, denying the 3rd hatch for a while and reducing drone count. After harrassing the zerg as such for a while, if it\'s successful, you can continue with the safe sair follow-up to kill a couple more ovies and scout or just go with citadel. With a citadel follow-up, getting speed while pumping more zeals usually often allows for further pressure--the zerg wants to be able to pump drones, get a 3rd hatch, get gas, tech to lair, and get muta or lurks after your initial rush without getting anymore lings, so a well-timed speedzeal rush afterwards can punish a zerg that tried to hide behind inadequate sunkens or force the zerg to forgo decent eco or postpone tech to be able to survive. They can\'t exactly power and tech while defending mass speedzeals (the ones you didn\'t lose early game and kept making while teching).

11/12 pool just warrants a 5 zeal/3 probe timing rush. They need to pump nonstop lings until sunkens morph or die. 2nd hatch at expo is often vulnerable, and a safer 2nd hatch elsewhere prompts the return of your probes and an earlier start to your tech knowing that they need an even later 3rd hatch (after those lings) before they can start mining from the nat. 9 pool is similar to 11/12 pool, just that build pretty much pressures itself because the econ is weak, so all toss has to do is power and survive to get the edge.

12 hat in main you can\'t really pressure, true, so you can just send the 1st zeal/probe to be annoying and gas early. If you arrive before the first lings pop out, you can maybe snatch a drone kill or two, and/or get the zerg to bunch all the drones at one mineral patch, thus stopping mining.

The real key here is to understand when to start teching, as in, start gas before the sunken finishes because you know you won\'t be able to kill it in time. And loosing most of the zeals is really, really bad.

For the record, I once went 10/12 gate with probe cutting and taking a couple with the rush from 8 on Rush Hour III and killed a 11 hatch expo zerg at 3. I think he only tried placing 1 sunk and might have had a bad original split or something, because it certainly wasn\'t my gosu micro. ;]

On May 29 2006 15:03 _Bandit_ wrote:


It's a stronger "rush" build, but if it fails to severely hurt or kill the zerg, you're in a very very bad position, unlike the other two. So yeah I guess it's kinda considered "cheese"

On May 30 2006 04:42 SuperJongMan wrote:


~_~ It gets predictable in a bo series.
But even Fast Upgrade and Spd Zealots are so predictable too ~_~

I need 1 gate diversity openers..

But yeah, I am definately a heavier 1 gate user too.

On May 29 2006 21:37 NonY wrote:
anyway, i just want to point out how meaningless the first zealot difference is. you think of it as too pivotal, because i dont think you bother to examine when it's actually made a difference and when it hasnt.