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11589 Posts
On July 17 2013 16:10 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 15:41 yamato77 wrote:If you're all just going to ignore VE, I'd be absolutely fine lynching the useless filter of Meapak as well. He's certainly exceptional in how little he's actually playing the game of mafia. On July 16 2013 17:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm on my phone so I can't copy paste but a couple posts up this page FirmTofu reponds the correct way to DrH and VE responds to wrong way.
Also yamato's last post was absolutely horrible.
I will probably use both my masons D1 on people who I feel are town.
I'm going to bed now. On July 17 2013 11:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hi biddies I'm just gonna wait for people to pop in and start asking me aggressive questions about reads and shit. Make it interesting or imma go play league of legends.
Also fuck I wanted to mason rayn, glad he's basically confirmed town though. This is as close as he comes to actually posting reads. Given the already difficult nature of forming a consensus in a game like this and his rather lackadaisical approach to the game so far, I'm willing to believe he's mafia trying to hide among the other low-content players in the game. Plus, I always love lynching people who call my posts "horrible". I am willing to lynch VE, but I see DrH as the most optimal choice. Can you perhaps look into our conversations with one another and consider it? DrH has still not responded to my questions even though I have explicitly stated what I wanted him to answer. That, in itself, should be reason enough to warrant his lynch.
Your arguing is incessant and altogether pointless. Dr H is far too active, abrasive, and emotional to be mafia. Whatever gran lie you think he's committed, I think you've misinterpreted. I have him down as a solid town read, and nothing you've posted has changed that.
As for you, I'm undecided. What he's posted about you isn't all that convincing, but you seem so singularly fixated at the moment that it's worrying. Why don't you take some time away from tunneling DH and give me a productive read over a player of my choosing, say Oatsmaster, and then I'll do the same in return for you. This has worked excellent for me in the past for getting out of tunnels.
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Reply to @Rayn: No I don't think you are scum anymore, I thought that the pardoner role was actually good, for the reasons I gave.
So I have been staring at this thread for over 3 hours now, 2 hours yesterday and now and hour before typing this, and I have come to the conclusion that I can't bring an extra perspective on a lot of these accusations between people. I understand what I am reading, but I can't analyze it further and give it even more meaning. Like this whole discussion between DH and Tofu, I read everything, even the logs from Rayn, and I can't even get a small feeling in my head/gut if somebody is scum. So I am going to give up on trying to get a gut feeling while reading stuff, I will just read it and move on.
Instead I am going to keep giving my view on things. It would be great if people I target don't ignore what I say even though it sounds simple/dumb, otherwise I am just going to keep being lost. You can reply to me while making gigantic posts about other people obviously, don't waste a post on me alone.
About Oatsmaster
You comment on my first post being useless, however, you have made useless post yourself. I wonder why you do that if you feel so strongly about wasting posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 16 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
oh god this type of player. On July 17 2013 01:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
gumshoe is scum.
Confirmed KILL.
@ VisceraEyes
After reading your log I don’t like that first post you made. You ask people to Mason you, but you imply that it would be dumb to do so because there are better choices. I just don’t like that entire paragraph, then following it up with another paragraph why you should be very safe using your Mason ability
Your first part is you saying that you will number your posts because you want to remind yourself that you can’t spam. Which is great, because each time that you write your postcount on the bottom you can reread what you post and evaluate if it is good enough.
But look at your posts:
You vote for DH because his first 12 posts are bad. Do you know you are on 9/18 now? How do your posts make you feel? You also claim that you fakevoted for DH to bait out response, and when kholly does, he goes straight to the top of your scumlist for that reason only.
Between that you made 2 posts one being a pretty useless inactive list and in the other one you defended yourself for making that inactive list.
After that you defend yourself for putting Wiggles on your scumlist, You donated 2 posts to DH (he already had gotten 3), you clarified something and finally you commented on Chez making an appearance.
So.. VE you are quite useless, and since you voted Malongo for that reason I think you should feel pretty bad about yourself.
@Gumshoe: Why are you so active in this game? I am referring to your play in the Nuclear game. You got killed in the lynch of day 3. Because you only cared to post one time over a timespan of 144 hours. I am bitter about that.
@Malongo: Let’s ignore the filter list for the people in this game that you made, even though it’s handy for people without TL+ .Thus ignore the referral post to it that you made. Hmm, better also ignore the 5 post you gave to DH while he already received 8 and 5 is the maximum. Oh and saying that Echelon tree outed in a post instead of PM to the host is not very useful, lets also ignore that.
We are left with you voting MZ for a “reason”. Ahye, and you speaking Finnish.
I am going to leave it at this for the moment. Any suggestion on who to Mason? I would like somebody that can chat during European times and that can help me a bit around.
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I will clarify myself a bit on the VE part from above.
In his first post VE says he wants to be Masoned, which I see as a town sign, but because he adds so many reasons to actually not mason him. I find it suspicious.
I also find it suspicious that he makes posts that generate posts to reply on.
1a) Give a list of inactives
1b) Make an apology post about it (you know someone was going to call you out on it)
2a) Fake claim HZ
2b) Say that you fakeclaimed HZ to bait scum, but people that react to it on nr1 scumlist (ezpz scumreading)
3a) but wiggles on scumlist wirthout to much reasoning
3b) defend your wiggles on scumlist (looks a bit like 1b)
I wouldn't find it too strange in a normal game, but in this limited post game it stands out to other people.
My case on Malongo is just saying Malongo his posting behaviour is really bad. Really really bad.
This time I have not ##voted yet because of the fiasco with rayn. I want some feedback first. Thx.
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On July 17 2013 13:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I don't think Dr. H would be a good Day 1 lynch. I'm leaning more towards town on him, and he's being quite active in the thread, and PM land as well it seems, which will be hard to keep up as scum without becoming fluffy. He's put something of a spotlight on himself, and with my read, I don't think he's a good target for the lynch today.
Dr. H, would you mind explaining your read on Oatsmaster a little more clearly for me, please? Is it basically just that Oats is quick to agree with you about who scum are in PM, but doesn't follow through with it in thread? So, there's a discrepancy between what's happening in thread and PM land? Based on the PMs you shared talking about Tofu, Oats seems somewhat undecided about what he thinks of Tofu, not entirely convinced that he's scum, as you say. In thread though, he was more adamant about Tofu than he was in PMs, which looks to be the opposite of what you're saying. What was the time period of those PMs? Do you have any PMs where Oats talks about VE? I'm not sure if I agree that there's something wrong with what he was saying about Yamato, it's not that he disagrees with Yamato's conclusions (You being town and VE being scum), but more that he disagrees with his behaviour regarding those conclusions. I do agree that he seems like he's acting very tentative in his PMs with you though. Why is that?
Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 07:20 strongandbig wrote:
@wiggles:
Did you read my second post? It does not seem like it.
Anyway I think you might be getting too caught up in my language. Do you disagree with my reasons for finding oatsmaster, sloosh, or VE scummy? Or just with the way that I phrased it and the fact that I decided not to pm oats right away? Cause the latter doesn't make much sense as a reason to suspect me.
My read on you was based mostly off of your first post, and not as much your second. I don't disagree with what you're saying about people, so much as how you went about your accusations. For example, I didn't think you were scummy because you thought Oat's first post was scummy, it was because you thought he was scummy, but spent a paragraph going back and forth saying that you thought he was scummy, but might be wrong. If you think he's scummy, you should be straightforward and say so, because making excuses just makes it look like you're looking for a way out if he flips town after. It also looked bad, because you didn't take a strong decision to actually pursue him. You wrote a paragraph about how we should use PMs to scumhunt, but then don't actually take the opportunity to do so. Talking about what you might do doesn't accomplish anything for town, it just makes it look like you're contributing when you're not. That's the other part of where my suspicion came from.
Posting from phone so will be brief but since vivax has only posted his weird rp thing about me and I think VE is scum you are the best person for me to engage with. I have a history specifically of always thinking oats is scummy, that makes me doubt my own reads on him, I feel like that's a good reason to equivocate but if I'm gonna draw shit for being honest maybe I'll just keep it to myself in the future. And I still think I made the right decision to not pm oats given he was in pm contact with some of the most active and best townies already in drh and Ryan.
Can you look at my filter for my accusations/suspicions towards other people than oats and tell me what you think, do they support the me-being-scum narrative.
In other news finding out that malongo is not a newbie makes me way more suspicious of his lack of content. Just throwing that out there.
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Townies:
DoctorHelvetica - proactive and has good points. Definitely town
Oatsmaster - he's a reactionary dude rather than making posts that are well thought out. I see nothing that points him being scum since he explained stuff to DrH. I agree with it.
Yamato77 - Has good posts that make sense. Is trying to push lynches (on people who i think are scum).
FirmTofu - I tried to bait FT into saying he has read my logs. I dunno if he would have lied to have done so as mafia, but nevermind. His play actually makes sense from town PoV and his push on DrH seems genuine and i don't think he would do that as mafia.
gumshoe - PM'd me and tried his best to get me to answer him when i was at work. Wanted to claim to me after i explain how my role works to him. A strong towntell.
kholly - His posting seems genuine, and he is new. The post especially where he throws out DoctorHelvetica, VayneAuthority, Hapahauli, gumshoe as his scumreads.
strongandbig - Has good points regarding VE/Sloosh. One thing i don't understand is that he asks Wiggles if he agrees with him why he thinks Oats is scum. He has never said he thinks Oats is scum. What's up with that SnB?
Koshi - Get's straight into scumhunting without stupid fillers. Good case against VE, i agree with it.
VayneAuthority - What i said in my logs with Oats. In addition to that he is a "setup guy" and begins to work better at the end of D1 / N1. Also calls Hapa out for stuff i find important.
Null - soft scumreads:
Vivax - I don't like his vote on SnB. And that's his only fucking post.
Kushm4sta - Useless, completely. I dunno what that means.
layabout - Only one post, setup talk and an unjustified read on vayne. Useless town or scum.
Hapahauli - I don't have a strong town feeling from Hapa atm. He concerns me a lot. I think he is asking bad questions and calls out stuff that should not be called out.
Malongo - Completely useless. I don't know what to think of him, i remember reading some of the earliest games in TL-mafia, and people seemed to do a lot of lists. Usually they were scum. Leaning on scum, but not sure.
Scum:
VisceraEyes - Useless VE is scum. Here VE is nothing but useless wasting his posts.
Mr.Wiggles - He thinks Hapa is suspicious, but is not doing anything about it. Actually he is not trying to pursue any of his reads further, nothing ends in a solid conclusion.
Meapak_Ziphh - Horrible comment about yamato's being horrible. And that's it. Suddenly wanted to mason me when i got PM-blocked. I dunno what that means he needed to waste a post pointing that out..
slOosh - Still has not answered to me. And nothing in his posts is pointing towards him wanting to find scum.
Nothing to see here:
Ace
Altairius
sandroba
Node
HiroPro
yamato, what have you talked about with Hapa? Has he brought up anything that can be considered a town tell from him?
SnB, why did you ask Wiggles if he agrees with your read on Oats? A read that you have never told in thread.
MZ, why did you feel the need to waste a post in telling how you think i am confirmed town and that you wanted to mason me when it's not possible?
Everyone who is useless atm, start doing stuff and do it quick, you can't all be mafia.
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wow this pisses me off..
@vayne you called me completely useless WTF!
I spent a lot of time going through filters, made what I thought was a good case, and everyone ignored it. But how dare you call me completely useless when you, who are a strong town for me atm unfortunately, are shitting from the mouth wasting space. Honestly I do not even read what you write anymore after I got a townread on you.
And I actually put effort into the game, WAY more than I usually do d1, and everyone ignores it. cool. guess i wont be doing that trying stuff again.
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@hapa: I was referring to my first post in the thread, where I called oats scummy for aggressively demanding that people produce scum reads like seven posts into the game. I called him "scummy" rather than "scum" but that's a semantic difference.
Btw an update: after looking through his filter again, he's no longer one of my top scum reads ATM, he's still silly aggressive but he's engaging and updating his reads enough and nothing in his filter super-pings my radar after those first few posts.
(10/20) (actual post 7 plus 3 to drh)
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Marvelllosity has replaced in for Hapahauli
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edwop by vayne i meant rayne
i apologize for flaming but he just pissed me off sorry.
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Giving posts is done publicly. Do "##Give PLAYER" to give posts to someone. You don't need to PM me or wait for my approval to do so.
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Marv, can I have a post?
Also whos scum?
I have like 7 posts left I think.
Also SnB, if I aint scum, who is?
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@oats you could tell if you looked at my filter but:
VE
Possibly VA
Possibly malongo now that I know he's not a nub
Also in case it didnt count before when I pm'd rol:
##give 3 posts to DrHelvetica (for a total of 3 not a total of 6 if the first set did count)
(11/20)
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Typical I replace in for someone easy to read. I have 15 posts total including this waste of a post, so 14 after. I've not been reading at all yet, so proper posts will come later this evening when I've had time to read and digest.
One post that I did read was FirmTofu's large post right at the start of the game. I'm fairly sure Firm did in fact lie at least once as town in his last newbie game, and defended his actions repeatedly in the obsQT of that game. I'm curious to know why the sudden change of heart about not lying as town.
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Sorry kush. I was in a hurry and missed your post about Sloosh. You get an upgrade to town category.
Why is nobody willing to give me posts? After all i am as close confirmed as you can be without modconfirmation? I have a lot to say, but i need to spare posts for tonight.
Okay marv, welcome. Give us some scumreads as soon as possible plese.
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##Give raynpelikoneet 3 posts
Reason: I don't have much to say and I hope he is able to keep me from the lynchtable on Day 1 by making posts that make others look worse than me.
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I dont even know how this game works
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Rayn idgaf about post limits because I'm never gonna hit it
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I've been masoned by someone who I talked about previously, didn't mason anyone on my own yet.
The guy I masoned claimed that he did something somewhat scummy on purpose to draw reactions. I'll tell you who I'm masoned with and eventually more about our exchange once I've talked a little more to him and see if he gives his consensus.
I stick to my opinion that S & B is scum, and I think that his first post is all you need to catch him. From a PM with the other guy:
In the specifics, as I should already have mentioned, his post looks forced, lengthy. He touches on a variety of topics showing a certain intent of stretching the amount of content he writes about them.
Especially the "noob player" one hit me as scummy. I see no motivation to write about that stuff unless you look specifically for things to talk about with the sole purpose of talking about something. Add his early apologies for inactivity to it as a cherry on top.
In a game where many hadn't posted at the time your own inactivity shouldn't be a huge concern for you, it is a nice strategy for scum to adopt though (albeit being often ineffective), but since mostly it comes at no cost, there is no harm in scum trying to gain leeway by claiming to be busy.
I kinda had half a feeling to post a list too but I feel like I should stick to what's relevant: Talking about scum.
S & B has clearly put in more effort since, and I don't see anything scummy in his posts since the first (but I'll surely reread them to make sure). If he's scum he's currently putting in effort in a way that doesn't suggest he could be. That doesn't automatically undo the previous reasons, too often have I fallen for the mistake of lessening the importance of earlier actions as the game progresses (which I think is a general fallacy everyone is subject to).
Other guy who looks bad is SlOosh for his defensive reactions and lack of followup. I'll be up for lynching him and encourage him to post more ASAP.
To put it simply: I don't see any intention of finding scum in his posts yet, but he reacts quite happily to accusations.
I be readin' more now.
Any questions to me should be directed to constable Guido first.
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Im going to sleep.
I masoned VE and this is the message chain.
+ Show Spoiler +]never mind im retarded.
Im currently going that you are town because its cool to be town.
Ok so kholly, Malongo and Wiggles.
How sure are you that kholly is Chez? I thought he was town cause new player and too retarded. If hes chez, that changes. huh.
Do you have a read on hapa?
Original Message From VisceraEyes:
You have no points on me. All of the points you raised aren't alignment indicative, all you did was summarize my play and say "SOOO SCUM" when, in fact, I did those things and I'm town.
I'm not even going to put any effort into convincing you - this is your dime, not mine. I'm spending time PMing with the people I'VE chosen. If you want this to not be a waste of your mason, you need to just drop the bullshit and ask me questions pertaining to the game - I'm not going to waste any more effort trying to dispel your ridiculous suspicion.
Also I'm not angry - I'm speaking sternly because I want you to listen. If you're town, you've got higher hats than mine to convince.
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From Oatsmaster:
Its not a waste if you can convince me that you are town. Then we win game cause scum dunno about secret pm convos.
So whats wrong with my points on you?
Also, you really dont need to be angry
Original Message From VisceraEyes:
So you wasted one of your PM choices just to tell me that I'm totes scum?
Well not only are you wrong, but you're an idiot for doing that. So idiotic in fact that you couldn't possibly be scum, so I guess there's that. Maybe if you dispense with the "U SO SCUM BRO" bullshit maybe this won't be a total waste for you, but as it stands you can get fucked before I'll discuss shit with you.
Original Message From Oatsmaster:
no im willfully breaking the rules and am willing to get banned just to chat with you.
what do you think?
Original Message From VisceraEyes:
Is this a sanctioned PM?
Original Message From Oatsmaster:
hey dude hows it going?
you totes scum in that sicilian game man
Are you following the newbie game?
He never replied after I asked him to expand on his own reads. I think this is scum VE. Totes. Why wouldnt town VE want to engage in conversation with me? Scum VE doesnt cause he is scared he slips or something.
So yeah.
Everyone better talk about this or I will be sad 
##give Rayn: 5 posts
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I am not sure if people are trying to be concise or unclear but this feels like death by wall of text.
Rayne can you explain how VE had gone from fine on page 15 to useless VE scum on page 18?
also Null =/= soft scumreads, thats silly.
I take it chez is the one that tried to use PM's?
What's with the only 1 pm stuff?
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EPT
