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United States22154 Posts
On November 15 2011 19:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote
If GM hadn't lied, the medic would have survived the night and town would have won anyway,
Mafia rolecop had already checked the medic, he was going to get shot anyway, I had no way of knowing that.
/back to watching.
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I'm semi-okay with LAL, but there's always the possibility of a newbie getting an important decision and fucking up, so I'd prefer that we at least pressure any liars before we get our nooses out on them.
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dunno if needed, but others are doing it:
/confirm
Anyways, i'll try to lurk less this game and try to not make the same mistakes as before. I'm reading the thread right now but thought that confirming would be better soon than later.
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On November 15 2011 13:29 Kenpachi wrote:
real long day ok.
hi i am Kenpachi and i am a Townie
welcome to TL mafia to those who are just starting and i hope you have a good time here.
We are the 99%
I am also green townie <3
LAL is stupid
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Whew, woke up and read all of this.
I guess I'll have to ditto Kibibit here, I'm okay with LAL but we shouldn't push ourselves into it; put some pressure first. I mean, there are even the odds that someone said something by mistake, or that the guy wasn't even serious at all; I mean someone even suggested that I should be lynched because of my joke(/spam?) post.
(Disclaimer: nothing was going on at all, and I was bored t_t)
Now, as someone mentioned, Kenpachi and Hiroruby both claimed vanilla townie here, which either mean they are lying or that they don't want to be killed by mafia; either way it's a pro-mafia claim.
But is it really that bad, to the point of lynching? First, Kenpachi does that every game and we can basically just ignore him; Secondly, what good is there in vanilla town claiming other than "surviving"? I mean, let's say someone claimed to be a Cop, he would be dead the next day. There is no point in claiming a blue role, not this early in the game at least, and claiming vanilla townie is just plain vague. He could be scum trying to disguise, he could be a blue trying to survive, he could be telling the truth, or he could even just have said that without proper thought. Sure he could just stay quiet and not claim anything, but as I said he may not even have put proper thought on it.
So I say we don't focus on that question, day 1 vanilla town claiming could be as well ignored.
Moving on...
WTF at the Palmar's posts. I admit that my posts were useless early early on, but nothing was happening! Palmar just jumped in the middle of nowhere and posted useless stuff... for what? really? Am I missing something? That's sounds just like a "I am not lurker, because I posted here" kind of post, not contributing to anything.
I say we should lynch lurkers, at least one lurker if we can't decide on someone scummy to lynch. Lurkers provide no good for us; Blues would only waste actions on them, Mafia won't kill them as they don't contribute to the discussion, and chances are that one of these lurkers is a Mafia as well, as it is easier to keep yourself outside of the spotlight when you don't say much.
That said,
##Vote: Palmar
I'll unvote him should he provide anything useful. I guess I should be fair and say that my votes will be volatile since we can vote/unvote as much as we want.
Also, I don't get prplhz. He says that LAL is bad, then says that you shouldn't lie nor lynch a liar. Liars will only do bad for Town, and a good way to make townies not lie is to threaten them with the LAL. How are we supposed to trust what people say if there is no LAL to enforce it? That's like a town without laws.
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If you are town just don't lie. It only serves to cause chaos when your lie is found as truth. While I dont nessesarily agree with LAL in all circumstances, you have to have a damn good reason for lying if you don't want to get lynched.
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/confirm
HAI GUISE
I'll be back in about 9-10 hours.
See you guys then. 
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I think its too early to start random lynching. I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues and have yet to get a chance to even check their role. We could get lucky and kill scum, but I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off.
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/confirm
I don't agree on withdrawing your votes to prevent mafia from bandwagoning someone. If people vote the last vote/votes to get someone lynched without providing good reasoning they are just putting themselves in the fire. Especially if they do it twice.
You should only ever vote for people you want dead and only ever withdraw your vote when you no longer want the person dead. Always speak the truth and provide your reasoning and it's pretty simple. This will give town everyones reads and if we don't tolerate votechanging without providing reason why we want or don't want someone lynched we're giving mafia less swinging room.
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On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I think its too early to start random lynching. I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues and have yet to get a chance to even check their role. We could get lucky and kill scum, but I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off.
Was that a scumslip? Because usually it´s the mob that picks itself off. "Us" implies that you are not part of the mob.
Are you scum?
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On November 16 2011 00:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I think its too early to start random lynching. I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues and have yet to get a chance to even check their role. We could get lucky and kill scum, but I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. Was that a scumslip? Because usually it´s the mob that picks itself off. "Us" implies that you are not part of the mob. Are you scum?
> Games where "we" lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off.
I assume "the mob" means "the scum", unless I'm terribly wrong at English. which would end up translating to "as the scum picks us(the town) off".
Nothing wrong here imo.
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On November 16 2011 00:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I think its too early to start random lynching. I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues and have yet to get a chance to even check their role. We could get lucky and kill scum, but I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. Was that a scumslip? Because usually it´s the mob that picks itself off. "Us" implies that you are not part of the mob. Are you scum?
This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same.
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On November 16 2011 00:07 GreYMisT wrote:
If you are town just don't lie. It only serves to cause chaos when your lie is found as truth. While I dont nessesarily agree with LAL in all circumstances, you have to have a damn good reason for lying if you don't want to get lynched.
Yeah, but what I mean is that not everyone intends to lie. If it's blatant and obvious, I say lynch them immediately, I'm just saying not to overreact to any inconsistencies or the like.
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Please excuse Forumite, he's a bit... erm... Swedish.
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On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once.
Ummm... what?
I'm sure you know this. Kenpachi's townie claim means nothing. It never means anything. He does it every single game. LSB ignoring it does not imply contradiction; it implies common sense. And your FoS on him is incredibly scummy.
FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched.
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On November 16 2011 01:15 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. Ummm... what? I'm sure you know this. Kenpachi's townie claim means nothing. It never means anything. He does it every single game. LSB ignoring it does not imply contradiction; it implies common sense. And your FoS on him is incredibly scummy. FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched.
"most of the time"? Care to explain to a newbie when would a mafia NOT want to appear green? 
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On November 16 2011 01:19 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:15 Nisani201 wrote:On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. Ummm... what? I'm sure you know this. Kenpachi's townie claim means nothing. It never means anything. He does it every single game. LSB ignoring it does not imply contradiction; it implies common sense. And your FoS on him is incredibly scummy. FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched. "most of the time"? Care to explain to a newbie when would a mafia NOT want to appear green?
Sometimes Mafia has to fakeclaim a blue role as a last resort to escape a lynch.
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On November 16 2011 01:15 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. Ummm... what? I'm sure you know this. Kenpachi's townie claim means nothing. It never means anything. He does it every single game. LSB ignoring it does not imply contradiction; it implies common sense. And your FoS on him is incredibly scummy. FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched.
Claiming Town is in the persons own best interest, but Town isn´t helped by people claiming Town, it doesn´t give us anything, except knowing that people are saying things we can´t possibly trust.
Anyway I don´t much care about the claim, Kenpachi isn´t the one who said that we should lynch all liars. I understand that you want to defend LSB but I really want to hear an answer from him, not you, Nisani.
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lol, every fucking time people argue about Kenpachi's claim.
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On November 16 2011 00:53 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:49 Forumite wrote:On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I think its too early to start random lynching. I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues and have yet to get a chance to even check their role. We could get lucky and kill scum, but I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. Was that a scumslip? Because usually it´s the mob that picks itself off. "Us" implies that you are not part of the mob. Are you scum? > Games where "we" lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. I assume "the mob" means "the scum", unless I'm terribly wrong at English. which would end up translating to "as the scum picks us(the town) off". Nothing wrong here imo.
Yeah, I caught my mistake right after posting. I saw Mob and thought of Town on a murderous rampage lynching Town for mistakenly lynching other Town. A Mob is a large gathering of people without much direction or reason, while Scum are a small and organized group. In Mafia, Mob usually fit Town better than Scum.
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EPT
