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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
His stance is entirely understandable and mirrors my own pretty closely. It's not rational for town OR scum to say you're gonna kill a townie (for slightly different reasons), and the conclusion from that is that it's somewhat of a null tell. In other words, I've been leaning townie on drazak because of the overall feel of his filter; not because what he did in that instance I felt was strongly scummy or townie. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:02 drazak wrote: I think he's stalling and I'd like to see him post, I wanted to see him post last night when I fell asleep, but it was a little too early. Is he SCUM stalling? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:04 marvellosity wrote: Z-Bo, I disagree with your entire read on austin regarding that drazak stuff. His stance is entirely understandable and mirrors my own pretty closely. It's not rational for town OR scum to say you're gonna kill a townie (for slightly different reasons), and the conclusion from that is that it's somewhat of a null tell. In other words, I've been leaning townie on drazak because of the overall feel of his filter; not because what he did in that instance I felt was strongly scummy or townie. It's entirely understandable, but it doesn't match his meta, in my opinion. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I'm missing something drastic here. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
It's more of the tone of his posts. On Liquid City, note how he finds a small breach in detail and immediately tunnels on it. He did the same thing in LVII against me. He demonstrates an aggressive, investigative style. This isn't what I'm viewing from him this game. He's being passive and inconclusive on his reads. His only vote is deemed a "provocation" one. I do not view it as a real attempt at pressure, and his general filter seems off. In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:45 Z-BosoN wrote: my case on austin, the death of v7, Keirathi, yourself. Austin - will read and get back to you Kei - will read and get back to you v7 - my vote's currently on him which should say enough myself - errr what do you want to know? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us  | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Uhhgggh fine I'm scum. + Show Spoiler + Actually I'm town+ Show Spoiler + But in all seriousness, is there anything you want me to address? Like I don't understand this helpless attitude you're taking to making a read on me. I understand jokes to a point, but I'm not unreadable and I'm a bit suspicious of this nonchalant attitude you're taking to determining my alignment. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:20 Z-BosoN wrote: Pretty much. It's more of the tone of his posts. On Liquid City, note how he finds a small breach in detail and immediately tunnels on it. He did the same thing in LVII against me. He demonstrates an aggressive, investigative style. This isn't what I'm viewing from him this game. He's being passive and inconclusive on his reads. His only vote is deemed a "provocation" one. I do not view it as a real attempt at pressure, and his general filter seems off. In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well. I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:00 Hapahauli wrote: Uhhgggh fine I'm scum. + Show Spoiler + Actually I'm town+ Show Spoiler + But in all seriousness, is there anything you want me to address? Like I don't understand this helpless attitude you're taking to making a read on me. I understand jokes to a point, but I'm not unreadable and I'm a bit suspicious of this nonchalant attitude you're taking to determining my alignment. I'm joking dude. It has nothing to do with my suspicions on you, which do exist. In all seriousness, however, I am a bit suspicious of you. Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case: Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days. This wasn't really my main issue. He is not very active on the first days, as in liquid city he actually got more active towards the later days. I don't like how you put out your initial "impression" Also, some of your posts are extremely fluffy: On October 20 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote: The nice thing about policy is we can choose how strictly to enforce it or not. I just would like to set the stage for some discussion, and create an environment where people aren't scared to seriously pursue scumreads. And this reminds me a lot of your newbie scum game. I'm not gonna go too far on you, as you aren't a realistic lynch for today, but since you asked "in all seriousness" then yea, I am suspicious of you. I don't feel there's anything about this suspicion that I want you to address though, whether as town or scum you are going to disagree, but feel free to expand on anything if you want. Right now I'm more interested in your thoughts of the other suspects. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:01 austinmcc wrote: Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well. I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP? Because some elements of what they said I figured you would be immediately on their tail. I've taken a look at looney, and well, fine lol. I'll make that a null read on you. You are also fairly active, so I don't think you'd make a good lynch today. I'm seriously looking into Keir/v7. Since Keir is actually showing his face, I'm almost almost almost willing to plunge the hammer on v7. I can't think of a better lynch than him, and his absence is just dragging the game out. The reason why I'm not wanting to push it is that he hasn't said shit yet in face of death. A scum, having 4 votes on him, if he could post, would definitely post and try to avoid it, no? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:33 austinmcc wrote: His not posting could go either way, it doesn't really do anything. Yea, so should we lynch him because of it? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:33 Z-BosoN wrote: Yea, so should we lynch him because of it? I'm not voting him purely for not posting. Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but [v7] has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them. Much of your posting is just about DP last night, and everyone seems to have concluded that DP is town because of how he explained/tried to explain himself. That was just easy activity and an easy way to make it look like you cared about something. That applies to me too. We can all be suspicious of EVERYONE who has basically only been active for that. Those are my initial posts. Basically, I just looked at the people that called out DP on his weird "what's your role" question. During that discussion, I would assume at least one of our scum became active, it's an easy way to be active in thread, to blend in with town. v7 in particular had done almost nothing outside of poke at DP. Out of what we've actually got to work with, v7 sticks out to me mainly because his posting fits the bill for how I'd think a scum would engage in that discussion. Chiming in, saying the same things we're all saying. Also he may or may not have posted GSL spoilers. I still haven't watched although I'm an idiot and let TL and reddit spoil the outcome. Super anti-town. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Marv, what say you? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I don't feel there's anything about this suspicion that I want you to address though, whether as town or scum you are going to disagree, but feel free to expand on anything if you want. Uhh wat? Well of course I'll "expand" on what you've said, but you aren't at all in the least bit curious to hear my explanations for my actions when you are suspicious of me? As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity. As for the "reminding you of my scum newbie game"... in what regard? Can't respond to this if I have no idea wtf you're talking about. As for "fluffy" posts - I haven't had much substance to go on until today, but with some newfound posting, let's get to work on that: Regarding Kei There's nothing in his filter that sets of scum alarms for me. His activity is normal for either alignment (therefore null), and I do like that he seems like he's actively thinking about Drazak's filter. He does a mini-180 on his stance on Drazak which seems pretty logical - first thinking that his vote is more likely town, then when Drazak doesn't post, he's willing to change his read due to the lack of pressure that Draz is putting on DP. On top of that, having read through his scum meta in GSL I extensively, I find his scum play to be overall more cooperative. I'm definitely not lynching him on his filter, but I'd like to hear more from him. Null/leaning-town on Kei. Regarding Austin Just like Marv, I'm really really good at wanting to mislynch town-austin every time we're in a game together. However unlike marv, I don't get townie vibes from his filter so far. This post especially is strange: On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote: I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game. Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive. I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out. Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them. Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process: + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: So what you are saying is that me asking the only person in the thread at that point makes less sense than calling for a mass claim 30 mins into day one. 0_o I asked if you thought he was scum because of this On October 20 2012 13:20 DarthPunk wrote: If there was even the slightest chance that draz was scum and would be less comfortable fake claiming it was a better play than the alternative IMO. I am done with this. You don't agree. so be it. If you didn't have any particular reason to believe draz was scum, then I was uncertain why you'd only ask HIM to roleclaim. The logic that this was a better play than not asking people would hold true for everyone, so if you were REALLY hanging your hat on "asking and making them claim VT is helpful" then you should have been asking EVERYONE, unless you had particular scumreads. That's why I ask, because that logic that you gave wasn't draz-specific, yet your question WAS draz-specific. There's a disconnect there, that I felt like would be addressed if you actually thought he was scum. I think asking ONE person this thing that you think is good to get answers to is weird, because you SHOULD be thinking it's good to ask every person in the game that. It's divided into three parts: 1) Meta-talk on Kei 2) stuff on v7/DP 3) Explanation of thought process to DP 1) He really doesn't say anything here. I think he's capable of doing this as town though, and he mentions that he's not very big on meta. This is fine. 2) This starts to get a bit weird, and I can't follow the logic at all. He says v7 is sticking out to him, and then talks about the DP situation for the entire paragraph. 3) This strikes me as a defensive impulse. I dont' understand why austin would get defensive here or really bother to explain his actions when no one was suspecting him for it. Overall, austin's D1 play this game is more active, and I haven't seen it before and don't know what to make of it. However, I do find him slightly scummy because of the above post and want some answers. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 22 2012 04:45 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, as you yourself said, a lot of people jumped on DP for this. You removed blame on them because they continued to post and make contributions. So in a way, the fact that he isn't posting when ONLY having done that in this game is why people want him dead right now. Since he hasn't posted yet, I'm concluding that he's not reading the thread, and not really giving a damn. Marv, what say you? Here's an overly wordy explanation of my thoughts, spoilered because this ends up being very long - + Show Spoiler + Question is on pg. 2 of the game. iamperfection is the first to point it out, calls it blatant blue hunting, votes DP.
I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote.
On October 20 2012 10:04 Hapahauli wrote: Dayum fireworks are flying already. As much as I'd love to join the gangbang, I ain't going to vote DP for a stupid reason like that.
At this point, DP explains himself, says every scum will claim green and if he asks role then scum can't fake claim later. DP also proactively asks iamperfection if he's happy with that explanation (townie), and sort of pokes at him for dropping a vote and leaving. z-boson comes in, says scum don't ask people if they are blues, calls it a null-tell
At this point, before v7 enters, IF I were certain there was one scum in the people who had commented/voted, I'd find hapa the likely candidate. But then v7 comes in. On October 20 2012 12:10 vaderseven wrote: v7 thinks DP's explanation is too scummy to be true, and it's just stupid. He's written off DP's answer as stupid. Then saysReally you stand by that? You don't care about the alignment someone claims (and why should you at this stage of day 1, it would be joke posts at best)... and you want to peg someone on either claiming their role or lieing about in thread. When asked to explain it you don't fall back on 'jokepost lol' and instead give us this line about setting someone up to be caught in a lie? I r confused. Thats like too scummy in a bad way to be possibly true. I have to write it off as just stupid. On October 20 2012 12:11 vaderseven wrote: When drazak already answered the question. Seems odd that he's read DP's question, read DP's explanation, but have entirely missed drazak's answer. He doesn't actually know what all happened, but he's on DP's case anyway.Draz, I hope you are smart enough as either green or blue (assuming you are one of those) to not bother answering that question. Keirathi then pops in to comment on v7's post: On October 20 2012 12:19 Keirathi wrote: He's much more forceful in what he's saying. "I call bullshit" "There were many acceptable replies...yours was not one of them."I completely agree with vader here. I mean, DP, what if Draz is a blue. What do you expect him to say? Of course he's not going to claim a blue role (I hope), a few hours into day 1. So, he claims Progamer. Then he gets close to lynch, and says "Okay, I'm actually Nestea. Don't lynch me!". What are you going to do, lynch him because he lied and said he was progamer 3 hours into the game? I call bullshit. You know that everyone is going to claim progamer just the same as everyone is going to claim green. There were many acceptable replies iamp's accusation. Yours was not one of them. Actually keirathi's response is also interesting to me. iamperfection votes DP, for reasons keirathi seems to agree with. Keirathi calls DP's response bullshit and unacceptable, and...that's it. There's no vote, no FOS, no further comment. "You have given a bullshit/unacceptable response to a vote...carry on." Kind of odd to me. Kei doesn't comment any further. Doesn't follow-up on this. But v7 putters around slightly more On October 20 2012 12:42 vaderseven wrote: This isn't any new information. It's just sort of gratuitous piling on.You seem to not get that scum would just the very obv thing of claiming green now without a care for the future. Fake claims are not prepared this far in advance. Thats such a "duh" that I am pretty sure anyone trying to think about your statement would have come to that conclusion. Okay so...if I really break everything down, post-by-post, I also don't like keirathi's participation in the whole bit. v7 and keirathi, both look scummy to me based on this, hapa not really because others limped in after him with even worse posts. Hapa pops back in later to comment, quick comment, gives his thoughts, gets out. | ||
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