EPTThe Sum of All Fears Mafia - Page 14
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:52 zelblade wrote: VE any thoughts on ET? So far ET seems reasonable enough and willing to get involved in conversation. At the present time I'm not considering him for today's lynch myself. | ||
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
Yes, as I was pointing out his posts were quite bad. In addition to what I've said, VE's points are also good. There is no reason for townies to hint at their nationalities as it just makes it easier for scum to fulfill their second win condition. On the other hand though, scum could have plenty of reason to hint at nationalities like fishing for other people's nationalities. On March 27 2012 07:41 Cyber_Cheese wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P7KtZ.jpg) Alright boys, lets do this. Something about this seems suss. Compensating for some sort of guilt perhaps? Plus, he seems to be avoiding taking a solid stance in here. He's trying to imply that VE is scum, but not outright saying it so that he can avoid taking responsibility if other people push him and it ends up in a mislynch. Blazinghand, I thought at first was chainsaw defending him with his ridiculous posts, but people are pointing out how he acts retarded like this in other games too. Since I've never played with him before, I'll take their word for it that BH is just retarded. ##Vote: Cyber_Cheese | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Anyways, was just trying to follow protocol Hesmyrr...my bad. XD | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:43 VisceraEyes wrote: zel and Zentor - discussing town-reads is like, COOL and everything...but I'd like to use our time to find scum if you don't mind. Townhunting is more effective late-game when there are fewer people to speculate about. You two need to post your thoughts on my case against C_C in detail and give your thoughts on my other scum-read gonzaw. I never said he was town; I merely discussed his erratic style. I do agree that his initial accusation looks suspicious. The flag is really bizarre, because I couldn't imagine posting it as mafia or towns person. If I were mafia, why would I call attention to myself with a conspicuous flag? If I were a towns person, why would I give the mafia a hint at my nationality? Currently, he does seem like the scummiest player, because of the subtle accusation accompanied with his other posts. Gonzaw's first post is really strange, not only because of the weird spacing (Is he trying to make it seem like he posted more information than he has?), but also because of the don't state your nationality thing. To be honest, I think this was obvious to anybody who read the first post. It seems like he is trying to make it look like he has contributed more information than he actually has. On March 27 2012 11:24 gonzaw wrote: Got back from uni. Let's hunt some nazis. I doubt I need to ask 100 questions to everybody, considering this is a smaller game, so don't worry about that too much. I'll try not to "hurt your eyes" this time  I think it's obvious that nobody likes lurkers, but lurking alone doesn't mean they should be lynched immediately. It just means you need to call them out, make them contribute, and put them under more scrutiny than other players, since they can easily fly unnoticed. @VE: I have to agree with johnny here, why do you prod someone about taking stances 1 post into the game? Even as pressure that doesn't seem very helpful. Also, I'd recomend nobody even slightly hint what nationality they are from. As far as I know, town don't get ANY information whatsoever if someone is US or SU, but scum can use that info to try and get their alternative win-con. So no nationality claims, nor any hint to them. If you have to claim just claim your role and nothing else. He then posts a really suspicious post that goes along these lines. There might be a non mafia role that depends on the target player's nationality. HOW WOULD I KNOW I'M NOT MAFIA I'M A NORMAL TOWNIE STOP LOOKING AT ME I doubt there is such a thing out there, and even if it exists, it doesn't change anything, so I just wasted a bunch of time talking about it. On March 27 2012 12:10 gonzaw wrote: There may be a hidden town role out there that functions depending if its target is US or SU, or depending on how many there are of each. Maybe there's a mason that can only recruit US players. Maybe there's a medic that can only save SU ones. How would I know if I wasn't one of these roles myself? The point is that I doubt there may be a role like that out there, and if there is it won't do us much good, at least to counteract the advantages scum get by nationality-claiming. His last post doesn't seem nearly as suspicious as his first two. He is either a nooby town or a nooby mafia, and it's really hard to tell which. I think it would be better to lynch C_C for now. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:38 VisceraEyes wrote: The important thing to note is that in his first post, he was sure to give the useless/obvious advice of "don't claim your nationality" but didn't seem interested in the fact that C_C already had. It seems to me that if I had an idea about something that's anti-town to do (claiming nationality) and someone has done this thing in thread (C_C) I'd be interested in hearing his reasons for doing so. He doesn't. Like he didn't even read it or something, when it's a big fat graphic in C_C's (only) post. I don't like the smell of it. It smells like....SCUM Ehmm, did it occur to you that I posted that advice SPECIFICALLY because Cyber_Cheese had hinted at his nationality? Of course I noticed it, which is why I gave the advice. I think that was pretty apparent. If it was an "useless" and "obvious" advice, then I guess C_C didn't get the memo about it. On March 27 2012 23:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I've found the responses to my prods exceedingly helpful in my personal hunt for scum. I've placed a vote on who I think is scum the most so far, and you've failed to comment on or even acknowledge that fact. Please do so. Go look at C_C and tell me what you think before you ask me useless questions again. C_C hasn't posted anything of value yet, or basicly didn't post at all since some hours after the game started. You don't find scum by the 1st posts that only dwell on policy lynches, debate about lurkers, about general town strategy, etc. Anybody can post any opinion about those subjects, both scum and town, so it's entirely useless to use them as an indicator of alignment. I'll wait for him to come and post his thoughts, voting for him now is kind of pointless to be honest. If he goes AWOL and lurking like in Aperture though, I wouldn't mind killing him. @people that have a problem with my spacing: I use spacing to separate different ideas. Instead of making 4-5 posts, I use large spaces to denote the same feeling. The more spaces between 2 sentences, the more apart they are in terms of content. That way you don't see a single huge paragraph that dwells with 4-5 different points. I'll try to us the "----" thing though. On March 27 2012 22:55 Bluelightz wrote: @gonzaw about ET some example of well, not "pressing" but pushing for more people to post There, ET pushes Sinensis to post more of his thoughts. This is one of the reasons why I think he's town. So that makes him absolute town in your eyes? lol this seems exactly like that thing you did to Wiggles on Aperture Mafia. You said you thought he was town because of a seemingly useless question, and now you think ET is town because of a seemingly useless pressure (which I don't think he actually pushed since then). Apart from that "pressure", what makes you think ET is town? What do you think about his wording and style of posting? On March 27 2012 23:30 Bluelightz wrote: I don't like his posts, his first post has lots of fluff( I might say but I'm not so sure on this one). his second is setup speculation, it takes TWO posts to get his point out and clear >_>?, wait a sec on his 3rd post still thinking about On March 27 2012 23:34 Bluelightz wrote: On his 4rd post, gonzaw was trying to get his points across to BH, and some questions, I dont feel this post is scummy. On March 27 2012 23:40 Bluelightz wrote: ...... Agreed lol, If you want to push a lynch on him im fine with it too. So VE's single point convinced you I am scum as well? On March 27 2012 23:51 zelblade wrote: I dont like gonzaw either. His activity is a pretty huge drop from a certain game, and his posts havent really done much in the way of scumhunting, besides generic advice. I also dont like how he dodges the C_C matter completely, and your point is the nail in the coffin. If C_C does indeed flip scum I say theres a huge chance gonzaw is scum too. I played D1 and N1 from Aperture mafia on a weekend I have uni/gym/etc on weekdays, so don't expect me to be the behemoth spammer this game. Also, why would you say this?: If C_C does indeed flip scum I say theres a huge chance gonzaw is scum too. If C_C were to be your scumbuddy for instance, you could get me lynched. Since I flip town, then you can use a reverse inference to determine that C_C is town as well. C_C flipping green or red doesn't say anything about me. On March 28 2012 00:31 MrZentor wrote:He then posts a really suspicious post that goes along these lines. There might be a non mafia role that depends on the target player's nationality. HOW WOULD I KNOW I'M NOT MAFIA I'M A NORMAL TOWNIE STOP LOOKING AT ME I doubt there is such a thing out there, and even if it exists, it doesn't change anything, so I just wasted a bunch of time talking about it. Yes it does. If there was a medic that saved only SU players, then perhaps he would take the chance to save C_C at night (if C_C were actually SU). If not the would only take a shot in the dark. Also I didn't "waste time" talking about it, I pointed it out because VE thought it was such a huge deal. Hey MrZentor, what do you think about Bluelightz? Other people's opinion on him are welcomed too. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 28 2012 00:31 MrZentor wrote: His last post doesn't seem nearly as suspicious as his first two. He is either a nooby town or a nooby mafia, and it's really hard to tell which. I think it would be better to lynch C_C for now. The italicized I disagree with. Here's why. Think about why he's posting it. I'll post it here for convenience. On March 27 2012 22:32 gonzaw wrote: BH, I see you are still the overly-aggressive asshole from usual right? I don't know what that initial stupid outburst from yours was about, but it produced some reactions and that's fine, but you need to stop these emotional outbursts of yours since they don't help anyone. If you are scum it's also easy to fake them to instill chaos, so stop. I think I said this in Aperture Mafia as well. I see nothing wrong with johnys posts or his "case" against you, you acted very odd and there's nothing wrong in him calling you out. The subsequent bickering between you two was kind of useless and only cluttered things up. You can't infer johnys alignment from that bickering, you need to let him make other reads, contribute about other topics, and see what he does and how he does it. Continuing an argument based on some pointless thing will make it impossible for anyone to do so. However BH, you were going against Nemensis (for some stupid reason like him waking up to post or something), and then you completely ignored him. Why's that? Do you still think Nemensis is scum for those reasons or were they part of your "show" to "pressure" and shit? I find you are acting like in Aperture, being so confident and aggressive; which makes me think you are likely town. However I haven't seen you be scum (in a non-Resistance game), and you pushing that attitude of yours worries me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @VE: So, did that "prodding" of yours help at all or something? You "proded" several people based on some pointless stuff, but you never dwelled back on it again IIRC @Echelon: What's with your weird wording? Saying things like "hip hip hurrah!" or "you are crAAAzy" and that weird attitude of yours? I don't remember you ever playing like that, seems you may be trolling or something. @Bluelightz: You say ET is town and pressed people to post, do you have anything to back that up? Although I see you are posting lists now though P.S: There, I used the "-----" line breaks you guys always love >_> Look at the size of this post sir. Take a good look at it. Now see if you can tell me after reading it again who gonzaw thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler [My Guess] + You can't If you can, it's because you're assuming something based on what he says, but he never actually says that he thinks anyone is scum. Is he suspicious of me? His post seems to be mildly discrediting me (unclear of the point of my posts, asking if it has helped though not apparently interested in the results, negative language like "pointless" and "dwelled"). Not to mention the fact that it's clear that he's not even reading the thread fully, which I'm assuming because he commented @me but didn't comment on my largest contribution OR my vote so far. He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies, while spreading doubt simultaneously (read: BH, VE, Blue, ET). This is the most suspicious post he's made so far MrZentor. What do you think about that? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Just a few quick questions as I follow the C_C case (p.s. is it ok to call you this Cyber_Cheese?): Q for Nemesis On March 28 2012 00:21 Nemesis wrote: Yes, as I was pointing out his posts were quite bad. In addition to what I've said, VE's points are also good. There is no reason for townies to hint at their nationalities as it just makes it easier for scum to fulfill their second win condition. On the other hand though, scum could have plenty of reason to hint at nationalities like fishing for other people's nationalities. Plus, he seems to be avoiding taking a solid stance in here. He's trying to imply that VE is scum, but not outright saying it so that he can avoid taking responsibility if other people push him and it ends up in a mislynch. Blazinghand, I thought at first was chainsaw defending him with his ridiculous posts, but people are pointing out how he acts retarded like this in other games too. Since I've never played with him before, I'll take their word for it that BH is just retarded. ##Vote: Cyber_Cheese Two questions here: - I thought his post was ok - could you tell me why you thought it was bad enough that you would consider him scum for it? - How can you trust people and "take their word for it" on BH's meta? What if they were mafia pushing their own agenda? Q for VisceraEyes: On March 27 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote: The important part of this post is the flag. At first I thought that Cyber_Cheese was idiotically claiming his nationality. But after rereading his play in L and seeing his posting so far, I'm finding this less and less likely. If C_C were town, I feel like he wouldn't have included any kind of clue that would hint at giving scum information, as most of the first posts by other players so far have done. It just makes more sense to try and keep scum in the dark. Could you explain the first two lines? I haven't read L (and don't have time to) so I don't understand the line of reasoning - I see he played medic but that's it. Are you saying his play here is subpar compared to his town play in L? Also, is there a particular reason why you posted your first post (that C_C pointed out as guilt ridden)? Q for Zelblade: On March 27 2012 23:51 zelblade wrote: I dont like gonzaw either. His activity is a pretty huge drop from a certain game, and his posts havent really done much in the way of scumhunting, besides generic advice. I also dont like how he dodges the C_C matter completely, and your point is the nail in the coffin. If C_C does indeed flip scum I say theres a huge chance gonzaw is scum too. Where did this come from? Personal view: Right now (unless I missed some posts amidst the BH thing) the case isn't against C_C isn't that convincing - or rather, I want to understand the reasons why people are voting him since I can't see it for myself. The flag was indeed weird, but I don't see it as a necessarily scummy soft attempt at fishing for nationalities. I thought the post about stances was helpful and was surprised when Nemesis said that it was bad, and his initial post on VE is null since I too thought about addressing it (for different reasons). Hopefully by night C_C would have responded and I have enough time to catch up fully on the thread. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Further, he immediately backed off of me in spite of my behavior not changing (arguably my confidence/bravado has gotten worse since the post he quoted) when I asked him about it. He never even mentions it again. Add to that the fact that he's been eerily silent during the goings-on today and I'd say he's by far the best candidate for the day. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On March 28 2012 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote: The italicized I disagree with. Here's why. Think about why he's posting it. I'll post it here for convenience. Look at the size of this post sir. Take a good look at it. Now see if you can tell me after reading it again who gonzaw thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler [My Guess] + You can't If you can, it's because you're assuming something based on what he says, but he never actually says that he thinks anyone is scum. Is he suspicious of me? His post seems to be mildly discrediting me (unclear of the point of my posts, asking if it has helped though not apparently interested in the results, negative language like "pointless" and "dwelled"). Not to mention the fact that it's clear that he's not even reading the thread fully, which I'm assuming because he commented @me but didn't comment on my largest contribution OR my vote so far. He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies, while spreading doubt simultaneously (read: BH, VE, Blue, ET). This is the most suspicious post he's made so far MrZentor. What do you think about that? I will admit that it is more suspicious than I thought it was, but I still think the second post I cited is the most suspicious. I want to hear what C_C has to say about him posting posting the flag. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Cyber_Cheese gonzaw ...for reasons I've stated previously. Neither C_C nor gonzaw appear to be interested in finding scum, only spreading doubt. One or both of them are scum. I'll lynch either one without mercy. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On March 28 2012 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote: The italicized I disagree with. Here's why. Think about why he's posting it. I'll post it here for convenience. Look at the size of this post sir. Take a good look at it. Now see if you can tell me after reading it again who gonzaw thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler [My Guess] + You can't If you can, it's because you're assuming something based on what he says, but he never actually says that he thinks anyone is scum. Is he suspicious of me? His post seems to be mildly discrediting me (unclear of the point of my posts, asking if it has helped though not apparently interested in the results, negative language like "pointless" and "dwelled"). Not to mention the fact that it's clear that he's not even reading the thread fully, which I'm assuming because he commented @me but didn't comment on my largest contribution OR my vote so far. He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies, while spreading doubt simultaneously (read: BH, VE, Blue, ET). This is the most suspicious post he's made so far MrZentor. What do you think about that? I'm trying to figure out if you are doing this on purpose or not. I think some people said you acted like this in C9++ too, but really, this is very bad. Yes, I didn't say who I thought was scum at that moment, because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point. This is Day 1, and only 10 or so hours had passed since the day started. I needed more info to make up my mind, and I thought ET and Blue's behaviour was suspicious so I asked them some questions (I'd like ET to respond as soon as he can as well). Do you seriously think I'm scum because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point? That's a very shitty reasoning. Does this mean that because you FOSed someone 1 hour into the game this makes you confirmed town or something? And no, I'm not spreading doubt, I'm asking people for responses which I'm awaiting. If you were any other player, you would be suspicious as fuck; but I know that you have this weird playstyle as town just like BH. You are being very active and pushing people, even though you don't make much sense with some issues. You made some sense regarding the BH vs jhonny issue, which is why at the moment I think you are just rushing things through and making bad cases. And what do you mean by this?: He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies I don't think I "danced around" anything. @Zentor: So you said my post wasn't that suspicious, and now you say it was more suspicious than you thought. Again, did you suddenly change your mind just because of VE's post? Could you stop sheeping and tell us exactly what you think about that post I made? I also want your thoughts on Bluelightz. @sloosh: Good that you are here. Would you mind posting your thoughts on this issue about me? Do you think I'm scum or not? | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
read my previous posts about him: (clicky) He tries to imply that VE is scum without outright saying it. He was wishy-washy with his post, and never followed up on that. As to why his other post is bad. He encourages play that is bad for town. clicky As to why I'm taking people's word on BH. It's because there were like 4 people that said his play was like that. So unless all of them are ballsy scum(which is impossible as there are only 4 scum btw), I don't see why not take their word for it? Plus it's very easy to check his previous game, and I doubt scum would risk slipping for something stupid like that. And I'm a bit too busy right now to read through his past games. If you don't think that the current lynch candidates are not good, why don't you come up with your own? Who do you think is scum right now? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Before this turns into a huge misunderstanding, now that I read it again you didn't FOS anyone at the beginning of Day 1, but you started the whole pushing thing with johnyy | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On March 28 2012 02:10 gonzaw wrote: I'm trying to figure out if you are doing this on purpose or not. I think some people said you acted like this in C9++ too, but really, this is very bad. Yes, I didn't say who I thought was scum at that moment, because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point. This is Day 1, and only 10 or so hours had passed since the day started. I needed more info to make up my mind, and I thought ET and Blue's behaviour was suspicious so I asked them some questions (I'd like ET to respond as soon as he can as well). Do you seriously think I'm scum because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point? That's a very shitty reasoning. Does this mean that because you FOSed someone 1 hour into the game this makes you confirmed town or something? And no, I'm not spreading doubt, I'm asking people for responses which I'm awaiting. If you were any other player, you would be suspicious as fuck; but I know that you have this weird playstyle as town just like BH. You are being very active and pushing people, even though you don't make much sense with some issues. You made some sense regarding the BH vs jhonny issue, which is why at the moment I think you are just rushing things through and making bad cases. And what do you mean by this?: I don't think I "danced around" anything. @Zentor: So you said my post wasn't that suspicious, and now you say it was more suspicious than you thought. Again, did you suddenly change your mind just because of VE's post? Could you stop sheeping and tell us exactly what you think about that post I made? I also want your thoughts on Bluelightz. @sloosh: Good that you are here. Would you mind posting your thoughts on this issue about me? Do you think I'm scum or not? He pointed out that it was suspicious. I agreed. I told you what I think about that post you made. So far, Bluelightz looks pro town. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Finding scum isn't a priority for you. Prove me wrong. Vote C_C. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Either way I'll answer it nevertheless. I'm waiting for the responses for Blue and Zentor. If none of them respond, or respond very badly, I'd want them lynched, but I'm waiting for both to respond first. If C_C doesn't come here and post his thoughts before the day ends, then he's not a bad lynch either. I'm having some doubts about other players, and I'd want their responses before posting my thoughts on them. PRE-EDIT: @Zentor: No you didn't. Here is the only part where you referenced it: His last post doesn't seem nearly as suspicious as his first two. You never said why it wasn't as suspicious as the other ones, even though you think I'm scum. And now you don't say why now suddenly you think it's suspicious as well, other than saying "I agree with VE". One more thing, before you said this about VE: VE seems to be promoting a good townie environment and being a lot calmer than BH. I am most afraid of him being scum, because if he were, I would never know. Which means you have doubts about his alignment. However, you now decide to take everything he says as true without hesitation, which is the opposite of being "afraid" of him What exactly about Blue's behaviour is pro-town to you? PRE-EDIT2: On March 28 2012 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw, I need you to tell me what you think of Cyber_Cheese, and what do you think of my vote of him? Do I have to repeat myself? Reread my posts if you want to see my stance on him and your vote on him. As far as I can tell, you think that "there's too little information". So to get a pass from you, scum need only not post/post policy discussion exclusively D1? When did I imply anything like that? I always have said since the beginning of dawn in TL that discussion about lurkers, policy lynch, etc is useless to determine someone's alignment. In my games I just post 1 paragraph about it to get it over with and deal with other stuff. Why would you even say something like that if it is obvious I never said nor implied something similar? You said you're "willing to vote him" if he doesn't step up, why not vote him now? You know, in case you can't make it back for lynch or whatever. If he's suspicious enough to vote to lynch then, he's suspicious enough to vote now I'd be willing to vote for him if he lurks througout the whole day, and doesn't post anything or posts anything of no value. Basicly, I'll vote for him if his future behaviour is scummy. I don't find him any more suspicious than say ccalf/Sinensis/players that haven't posted too much since. ...but you're unwilling to even SAY ANYONE IS SUSPICIOUS. A lot has happened in this thread and you should have a firm opinion of at least someone, I don't care who you are. So far everyone (who has posted) has at least a tertiary scum read and has shared it with the thread - you're being overly diplomatic and defensive. Do I need to tell you everything? I thought you were smarter than that. I thought it was obvious that the players I'm pressuring, and asking everybody questions about them are the ones I'm suspicious of. What, do you want me to make a list about who's "suspicious" and who isn't or something? Finding scum isn't a priority for you. Prove me wrong. Vote C_C. I won't do what you want. I want responses, and when I get them I'll assess who is most likely scum and vote for him. I won't try to "prove you wrong" by sheeping you. If my defense so far isn't good enough for you, well, tough luck, I hope other players think otherwise. Anyways VE, what do you think about Blue and Zentor? | ||
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