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On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does).
...Wow....obviously.... -______-
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On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
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No. No. AND No.
Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2.
The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure.
Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you.
Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem:
On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______-
Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess.
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Pandains post:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least.
Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out.
I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/
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above post:
others you think are not secure.
It's early t.t
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I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos
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On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos
chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day'
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A clarification, since it was brought to my attention: There are TWO Double Lynches in this game. I forgot to put them in the OP, my bad.
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Point by point refutation.
On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2.
Of course Detectives are “powerful”. However, there are no PMs, once again. You don’t get a circle, so Detectives are not as powerful in this game, and honestly, I don’t really see many Detectives being analytical or cautious to the point where they would be better off trying to subtly kill a red. That’s going to just lead to sniping.
The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure.
In a 25 person game, how many Millers can you expect there to be? How many Mafia are there? If a Detective outs himself by finding a Miller and the Miller is lynched, then why wouldn’t you trust the Detective? Obviously if a “Detective” outs a blue/green by claiming they are Mafia, then you do lynch the Detective because it’s an obviously dumb move to make. I forget which game it is, but see the first game with Assassins. I believe what transpired was that an Assassin ousted a Miller as red, but because said lynched person flipped Miller, the Town did not lynch the “Detective”.
Furthermore, there is no covert town circle. There are no PMs. Therefore, Detectives are not going to be able to tell people “hey I checked you” as in a normal game.
Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you.
Again, how can one siphon information out of a non-existent circle?
Overall, your post would make sense given a game involving PMs. However, the guidelines you lay down and the assumptions you make are entirely fallacious given the thread-contained nature of the game.
Also, ultimately how many times have RNGs actually worked to their desired effect? If it's feasible, go ahead and do it, since if you RNG somebody and they don't talk they count as inactive anyway. However, I've always just seen RNGs failing.
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Voting randomly is a stupid idea. If we put pressure on people and do at least some guesswork chances are we'll glean more information out of a kill then if we simply kill someone randomly. Forcing people to talk and participate brings us closer to weeding out the scum.
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You are correct, Element 91. But Amber is also right that there are ways for the detective to push lynches on reds he checks, without role-claiming. If you are a detective I suggest you get creative; only roleclaim if you feel it is necessary.
If you are a detective, you should probably read this page (if you haven't already) just to get an idea of the ways in which other people (namely mafias and medics) will be trying to find you in the thread:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_the_Cop
I think that's a pretty good comprehensive guide, but if there's any problems in it hopefully a more experienced player can point them out.
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I have been convinced. I didn't think about how choosing randomly would promote people not posting. I was only thinking about the village idiot and how they could try for an easy day 1 win by being inactive/suspicious if we decided to go that route.
I do like amber's idea of randomly choosing some one to defend them selves and then we can choose to take action based on their, and others responses
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On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos
First off, do we have to reach a true majority to lynch a suspect or is it the person with the most number of votes by nightfall gets lynched? If it's true majority, then using a random pick is a waste of a vote. With 25 players it will be impossible to get 13 votes randomly on one person. How is that supposed to "pressure" anyone? Again, I'm going to point out that even if everyone agrees to honestly reporting what result they got, the mafia could just pretend and say whatever they want. Openly supporting using a random pick invites a mis-lynch. I am not going to waste my vote. I support having people post and looking for inconsistencies.
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I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically...
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Why we should lynch every round
Let's take a simplified game example: 9 total people, 2 mafia, no cop. In my 3 scenarios below, I demonstrate how it's better to have as many guesses as possible, as statistically this drastically increases your chances of getting at least one mafia killed.
*If we lynch every round: round 1: 7/9 chance of killing a townsperson, round 2: 5/7 chance of killing a townsperson, round 3: 3/5 chance of killing a townsperson = 33% chance of losing outright, 67% chance of killing at least one mafia.  on't lynch first 2 rounds, then lynch 2 rounds: (5/7 * 3/5) = 43% chance of killing townsperson both votes, 57% chance of killing at least one mafia with 2 votes. *And if you don't lynch for 4 rounds, and lynch 1 round = 60% chance of killing townsperson, 40% chance of killing one mafia.
As you can see, if we were to take the extreme case of waiting to the last possible round to vote, we would need to have information that increases our probability of picking a mafia by 27% as compared to randomly lynching every round. Personally, I don't have the confidence in our ability to do that.
Secondly, it is imperative that we reduce the Mafia count to 3, which would halve the rate at which they can kill people at night. The early we do this, the better.
Now, with the addition of a DT, we should consider the odds of him getting killed, his optimal "coming out" period, and how that affects our scenario above.
Lynch every round - Mafia has a chance of killing the cop: 1 - (7/8*5/6) = 27%
Lynch 2 rounds - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - (8/9*7/8*5/6) = 35%
Lynch only last round - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - (8/9*7/8*6/7*5/6) = 44%
Lynch round 1 - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - 7/8 = 13% (cop catching 1 mafia = 25%)
Don't lynch round 1 - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - 8/9 = 11% (cop catching 1 mafia = 22%)
Lynch 2 rounds: cop murdered: 27% (cop catching 1 mafia = 50%)
Don't lynch 2 rounds: cop murdered: 22% (cop catching 1 mafia = 42%)
Don't lynch 3 rounds: cop murdered: 33% (cop catching 1 mafia = 58%)
Don't lynch 4 rounds: cop murdered: 44% (cop catching 1 mafia = 72%)
The important thing to note that in the above case is that if there's a lynching every round, the cop's survival rate going into the last round = 73% ... every further round that goes by, the cop may get further killed, and his pick at night is diluted by the fact that there's townspeople. Yes he has a higher chance of getting a mafia as time goes by, but consider this -- if the cop can survive to the last round, and has 2 confirmed innocents, he can win the game by revealing himself and rallying himself + 2 = 3 over the 2 mafia to win. However, you have to offset that with the probability that the cop and mafia will have coinciding picks at least one of the 2 nights: 1 - (1 - (1/7 police pick * 1/5 mafia pick * 5 possible townspeople = 1/7) * 1 - (1/5 police pick * 1/3 mafia pick * 3 townspeople = 1/5)) = 31%.
In other words, lynching every round in the above simplified game has a 42% chance of auto-winning by cop, and a 67% chance of going beyond the round of 5 people. I dont' know how to do the exact calculations, but I strongly suspect that your chances of auto-winning by cop with more rounds goes down since his survival rate decreases by 11% since he must survive to the round of 5 people left no matter what, which probably doesn't completely offset however much the 31% risk of choosing same targets at night is decreased. Additionally, you have a higher chance of getting beyond the round of 5 in lynching every round.
Hope this helps...
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On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically...
Lynching a random is a pretty silly idea...
a) Mafia statistically hide more amongst the inactives than amongst the active, its not just about non-blues.
b) An inactive lynch has the dual purpose of encouraging both mafia and town to post more. If someone's town then hopefully they'll contribute to productive discussion, but if they're red it leaves a big trail for someone to analyze. The chances of getting village idiot isn't equal to hitting red because there's much more reds than idiots.
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On October 05 2010 07:00 Happy.fairytail wrote:Why we should lynch every roundLet's take a simplified game example: 9 total people, 2 mafia, no cop. In my 3 scenarios below, I demonstrate how it's better to have as many guesses as possible, as statistically this drastically increases your chances of getting at least one mafia killed. Show nested quote +*If we lynch every round: round 1: 7/9 chance of killing a townsperson, round 2: 5/7 chance of killing a townsperson, round 3: 3/5 chance of killing a townsperson = 33% chance of losing outright, 67% chance of killing at least one mafia. on't lynch first 2 rounds, then lynch 2 rounds: (5/7 * 3/5) = 43% chance of killing townsperson both votes, 57% chance of killing at least one mafia with 2 votes. *And if you don't lynch for 4 rounds, and lynch 1 round = 60% chance of killing townsperson, 40% chance of killing one mafia. As you can see, if we were to take the extreme case of waiting to the last possible round to vote, we would need to have information that increases our probability of picking a mafia by 27% as compared to randomly lynching every round. Personally, I don't have the confidence in our ability to do that. Secondly, it is imperative that we reduce the Mafia count to 3, which would halve the rate at which they can kill people at night. The early we do this, the better. Now, with the addition of a DT, we should consider the odds of him getting killed, his optimal "coming out" period, and how that affects our scenario above. Show nested quote +Lynch every round - Mafia has a chance of killing the cop: 1 - (7/8*5/6) = 27%
Lynch 2 rounds - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - (8/9*7/8*5/6) = 35%
Lynch only last round - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - (8/9*7/8*6/7*5/6) = 44%
Lynch round 1 - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - 7/8 = 13% (cop catching 1 mafia = 25%)
Don't lynch round 1 - Mafia chance of killing the cop: 1 - 8/9 = 11% (cop catching 1 mafia = 22%)
Lynch 2 rounds: cop murdered: 27% (cop catching 1 mafia = 50%)
Don't lynch 2 rounds: cop murdered: 22% (cop catching 1 mafia = 42%)
Don't lynch 3 rounds: cop murdered: 33% (cop catching 1 mafia = 58%)
Don't lynch 4 rounds: cop murdered: 44% (cop catching 1 mafia = 72%)
The important thing to note that in the above case is that if there's a lynching every round, the cop's survival rate going into the last round = 73% ... every further round that goes by, the cop may get further killed, and his pick at night is diluted by the fact that there's townspeople. Yes he has a higher chance of getting a mafia as time goes by, but consider this -- if the cop can survive to the last round, and has 2 confirmed innocents, he can win the game by revealing himself and rallying himself + 2 = 3 over the 2 mafia to win. However, you have to offset that with the probability that the cop and mafia will have coinciding picks at least one of the 2 nights: 1 - (1 - (1/7 police pick * 1/5 mafia pick * 5 possible townspeople = 1/7) * 1 - (1/5 police pick * 1/3 mafia pick * 3 townspeople = 1/5)) = 31%. In other words, lynching every round in the above simplified game has a 42% chance of auto-winning by cop, and a 67% chance of going beyond the round of 5 people. I dont' know how to do the exact calculations, but I strongly suspect that your chances of auto-winning by cop with more rounds goes down since his survival rate decreases by 11% since he must survive to the round of 5 people left no matter what, which probably doesn't completely offset however much the 31% risk of choosing same targets at night is decreased. Additionally, you have a higher chance of getting beyond the round of 5 in lynching every round. Hope this helps...
Did I misread the OP? I thought BrownBear says that we can't no lynch... or at least he says we can't abstain.
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Someone will always get lynched, an absolute majority is not required. The person with the most votes will die. If it is tied, the person who reached this amount of votes first will get their head chopped off.
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Speaking of lynching, do we have to accuse before we can vote on the person? Or can we just type ##vote xxxxxxx?
If we don't need to accuse, should we do so anyway in the thread to start a discussion?
Also, I support the idea of non-random lynching. Random lynching has a greater chance of hitting blue or green instead of red. Random lynching also doesn't promote discussion which means there's less of a posting trail for later in the game.
For non-random lynching, I suggest lynching a suspicious active instead of an inactive. Inactives could be simply bored by the Day1 stuff, but become really useful later. An example would be the recent RAM game where Xelin was inactive in the beginning, but found a mafia member on his first accusation.
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This game:
There are several differences in this setup than regular mafia games in case you can't be bothered to read the role descriptions.
1) Detective must wait until Night 2 for investigation which is frankly not helpful as it is 1 less report overall per detective.
2) Vigilante gets their shot or bat back if they overlap with mafia. Not a huge deal as an overlap isn't that likely.
3) Godfather can fake Village Idiot. Frankly as some have stated before this may be a bit OP and is a very good reason for Vigilante to save their bat.
4) Roleblocker now cannot block someone twice in a row which make DT claiming a little more viable especially once mafia loses a KP.
5) Mafia can practically save a KP for the next day while the poisoner is still alive.
Three huge things to watch out for
1) Like stated earlier, the Vigilante must not shoot until we get a Village Idiot report as it is the only way of safely killing a potential Village Idiot/Godfather as town.
2) Mafia can continuously use poison from any point in the game and have on of their players claim hit Veteran. The mafia will then be able to unleash 3 NK at any one night from that point onwards while having 1 NK the night before the claim and 2 NK for every night in between. This can be dangerous if town is too trusting of the hit claim and/or forgets about the 3 NK.
Ex: Night 2 : 1 poison 1 shot
Day 2: 1 death, mafia claims hit
Night 3: 1 poison 1 shot
Day 3: 2 deaths
Night 4 1 poison 1 shot
Day 4: 2 deaths
Night 5: 2 shot
Day 5: 3 deaths
3) Finally in a Lylo situation with Village idiot still alive, mafia can have a joint-win with the Village Idiot by lynching him. This will result in the day ending with both the Village Idiot and the Mafia's win requirements being fulfilled. (VI gets lynched and mafia # = town #)
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On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess.
Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally....
Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post..
Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ.
On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos
Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that.
On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/
p.s. Typical Amber blunder?
On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day'
Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite?
-__-
On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically...
That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too.
Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat.
So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___-
Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing)
Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol.
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