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On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi
I think I would have liked you better if you didnt vote and stuck to you guns, this seems like "oh crap I better vote him because people are calling me out".
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On November 04 2013 14:54 hzflank wrote:
Look, I did not bash anyone. Maybe you did not interpret what I wrote the way in which I intended it to be interpreted. When I said back to being a jerk it was because I was intending to keep up a certain tone in my in game posts for most of day one, and I have sound strategic reasons for doing so.
I am here to play a game. At no time, ever, during the game have I or will I ever intend to personally insult anybody. It might happen on occasion due to the medium (text), and if it does then I will apologise.
There are also some cultural differences in the way British people phrase things compared to Americans, and ofcourse British slang can be different. Not to mention that British humour is very different to American humour.
I'm useless at the moment, so will be back to the game later.
Ok sorry mabye im just in a shitty mood from lack of sleep and pain.
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On November 04 2013 15:37 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi I think I would have liked you better if you didnt vote and stuck to you guns, this seems like "oh crap I better vote him because people are calling me out".
Well I agree with the reasoning which is why I decided to vote. Also since many people commented on it, it seems like a fairly normal thing to do on TL mafia and since I plan on playing many more games, it would be foolish not to adapt. Overall, regardless whether I was voting for him or not, I still stand by Umasi being one of my scum reads.
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On November 04 2013 15:50 Vanesco wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 15:37 Onegu wrote:On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi I think I would have liked you better if you didnt vote and stuck to you guns, this seems like "oh crap I better vote him because people are calling me out". Well I agree with the reasoning which is why I decided to vote. Also since many people commented on it, it seems like a fairly normal thing to do on TL mafia and since I plan on playing many more games, it would be foolish not to adapt. Overall, regardless whether I was voting for him or not, I still stand by Umasi being one of my scum reads.
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh
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On November 04 2013 14:53 EchelonTee wrote:
What are you talking about? Your reasoning for not voting is that other people could sheep onto you without giving input.
The problem with that reasoning is as follows:
1.) You state that you have a "really big scum read on Umasi".
2.) If you have a big scum read on someone, it follows that you should want them lynched.
3.) If you vote them and people sheep on to you, those people are helping exact the lynch that you want.
If you have a big scum read someone, why do you have a problem with people agreeing with your read? Is your read on Umasi actually not "really big"? This doesn't make sense.
These are the points I agree with mostly. Since currently Umasi is my biggest scum read he would be my first lynch and then I would look more closely anybody who I think sheep'd in. I do not really agree on your point WoS that the first person I pressure in the game has to have my vote. I did not get a scum read from him, therefore I did not vote.
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On November 04 2013 16:05 Vanesco wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 14:53 EchelonTee wrote:
What are you talking about? Your reasoning for not voting is that other people could sheep onto you without giving input.
The problem with that reasoning is as follows:
1.) You state that you have a "really big scum read on Umasi".
2.) If you have a big scum read on someone, it follows that you should want them lynched.
3.) If you vote them and people sheep on to you, those people are helping exact the lynch that you want.
If you have a big scum read someone, why do you have a problem with people agreeing with your read? Is your read on Umasi actually not "really big"? This doesn't make sense.
These are the points I agree with mostly. Since currently Umasi is my biggest scum read he would be my first lynch and then I would look more closely anybody who I think sheep'd in. I do not really agree on your point WoS that the first person I pressure in the game has to have my vote. I did not get a scum read from him, therefore I did not vote.
So basically anyone who thinks you are scummy must automatically be scum?
Was I scum until the moment I removed my vote?
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On November 04 2013 11:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best.
I can't read OO for shit.
I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts.
Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk
Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell.
gumshoe ....
thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here
Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch
Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely.
ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts.
hzflank i can read.
Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
+ Show Spoiler +
And I guess I am WoS opposite as not including this game I have rolled scum 6/11 times.
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When did I ever say that? Please show me exactly where I say that. And if I don't then why are you trying to make stuff up? This entire time from the start when Umasi voted on me I have been a large center of discussion and it's getting pretty irritating where even when I try to give my reads everybody just starts harping on me anyways for doing something that they don't like or aren't accustomed to. Just cause you think one way is the only way to play doesn't mean it actually is.
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On November 04 2013 16:21 Vanesco wrote:
When did I ever say that? Please show me exactly where I say that. And if I don't then why are you trying to make stuff up? This entire time from the start when Umasi voted on me I have been a large center of discussion and it's getting pretty irritating where even when I try to give my reads everybody just starts harping on me anyways for doing something that they don't like or aren't accustomed to. Just cause you think one way is the only way to play doesn't mean it actually is.
Ok I had zero problem with you not voteing, and looked at the people who were calling you out for it worse, but your response to them calling you out looked bad.
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On November 04 2013 14:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Do you think Vanesco is scum for his actions or can he be town as well?
Null, slight lean to scummy; his demeanor doesn't seem as active and pressuring as it did in Newbie Mafia L. Filter
Though he does use the same "large scum read" terminology without immediately voting.
On November 04 2013 14:59 thrawn2112 wrote:
how's it goin? no, not even thinking about lynching yet. but i'm glad you brought it (lurker lynching) up
what do you think about the drama? is it real drama or is it "real" drama?
or just distracting and annoying?
You said you would focus on the people not on your list. I took that to mean you were targeting lurkers, which you aren't at this point. What's your stance on lynching lurkers? Or am I to assmue that I am the target of your focus?
Your set of questions don't make any sense to me. Do I think there is drama: Yes, people are being voted. Do I think it is scum influenced: Yes, it is more than likely that at least one of the active persons is scum.
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I'm thinking near endgame, when there are no more blues able to be voted in, claiming votes and your actions (if you were ever blue) would be a good idea. It would force scum to make fake claims and votes.
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On November 04 2013 10:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am sooo uncomfortably unfamiliar with this player list.. I think Syl, WoS, and maybe Sn0 are the only people I've played with?
OH lol and rayn ofc
Oh Thrawn, can you tell me what you think of Syl since you've played with him before?
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On November 04 2013 13:10 hzflank wrote:WoS has only played scum once? Then wth was he doing coaching me in my first scum game. I even said before it started that having WoS as a coach was a handicap, and still they let this uni-scummer coach us. I think what Thrawn was getting at was this line: Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 10:48 WaveofShadow wrote:
Vanesco's post looks like typical 'scum trying to jump on the first odd thing somebody does for early game contributions n' shizz.
You are aware that scum sometimes jump on to something. The thing that you don't mention is that scum tend to do this if they think at least one town will also jump on it, as that allows them to place/leave their vote on the target for a longer period of time. I could certainly argue that Vanesco did this with his first post, but then one may also argue that you did the same. Basically, that sentence was a little bit hypocritical.
Isn't that Umasi you'd be referring to as opposed to WoS then if we were to follow your train of logic? Umasi being the instigator and WoS being the townie who takes the bait? Seems like you're slightly misrepresenting WoS here, but you continue on later in the post to mention Umasi anyways in this post (though I don't really agree on the train of thought but thoughts on that below).
In any case, your statement seems to be a flat way of looking at how scum play since different players play scum more passively or aggressively than others but in either case I don't really think you'd only make accusations or jump on things if you think it's going to follow through with townies. I've seen quite a few times where it's just thrown out there as a casual observation and people see this kind of activity as being townie because they are scum hunting. (this ended up being a random rant that serves no real purpose)
On November 04 2013 13:10 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 10:30 Umasi wrote:
Also, I support claiming votes and actions after they occur, so once it's back to the blues being VTs and unviggable, can't really think of a downside. Ofcourse, it is fair to point out that trying to look like town does not always make a person scum. But trying to look like town in your very first post makes someone (Umasi) look like uncomfortable scum.
To me this looked like he was pressuring Vanesco to clear up his points because they were either ambiguous or could be interpreted scummily like the way Umasi said his last sentence about strategy looked.
On November 04 2013 14:05 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 09:56 hzflank wrote:
To clarify, perhaps:
On night X+1, each person claims what actions they took on night X (if any).
Then each person claims who they voted for on day X.
The three people who used actions should be roughly the same three people who had the most votes. It could be slightly out as we would be missing information from the people who died on Day X (if town), night X and Day X+1.
Come to think of it with up to three people's votes missing it might not be worth claiming who we voted for, so this may not have any merit. Elaborating on Vanesco here, I'll use this post as an example Main question for you here is: How could we ruin strategies by talking about them? For instance, how do scum fuck with this plan. How would you abuse this plan as scum? Would you? CAN YOU? what witchcraft discussion CAN scum abuse? Since blues are based on townreads ANYWAY, it's not like we're all blue hunting at all, so power discussion isn't something scum can abuse. Especially because they don't have roleblockers or anything, only blue vigis. although I don't think there's an important facet of strategy discussion to be had (otherwise I'd talk more about strategy,) your specific outlook on how to handle it is scummy.
Also just to add on here, scum have bigger fish to fry than to plan how to foil our plans. Time constraints and what not means they'd rather go for mislynches than going all out on figuring a loophole in strategies suggested.
That said, Vanesco does bring up a reasonable line of thought regarding overlapping blue players, and thus I guess the above applies more towards non-Witchcraft related posts.
On November 04 2013 15:06 Vanesco wrote:
So it seems that from all this negative feedback on me not voting that after thinking somebody is very scummy a vote is typical action. From my POV it seemed better not to vote because I don't like lurkers to just get a free ride by latching on, but after seeing the responses I have to agree with most of them and it was a bad play by me. Therefore:
##Vote: Umasi
??? A few people call you out on it and you fold and just sheep along - this makes you look worse probably than when you weren't voting simply because it's such an easy+lazy play.
On November 04 2013 16:21 Vanesco wrote:
When did I ever say that? Please show me exactly where I say that. And if I don't then why are you trying to make stuff up? This entire time from the start when Umasi voted on me I have been a large center of discussion and it's getting pretty irritating where even when I try to give my reads everybody just starts harping on me anyways for doing something that they don't like or aren't accustomed to. Just cause you think one way is the only way to play doesn't mean it actually is.
To be fair, your only real reads have been a null read on me and a scum read on Umasi which was mostly a combination of what was previously mentioned by others before.
On November 04 2013 13:44 Vanesco wrote:
I don't get where this idea of my calling out Syl for not being firm is coming from. I just didn't like what he had to say and I decided that instead of people joking around I wanted to actually start the game, so I called him out. I didn't really take much of a stance because nothing in his response made me feel like he was scummy.
I'm having a really big scum read on Umasi currently. As explained before, in his first post I think only consists of 1 real accusation which is that I do not like talking about strategy since scum can meta it. To me it seems that he wants town to discuss strategy which leads me to the two most likely conclusions.
1) He doesn't know what to do, usually means a weak town and can be tricked easily by scum, or
2) mafia that wants to know the towns plans and how to use it against them
His only other post is him making a joke at somebody who thinks he's scum and then saying that I didn't pressure Syl hard (which I explain in the paragraph above). He then talks about how I don't like to talk about strategy which I explain why above. He mistakenly calls strategy "mechanics" when they are completely different things (in my opinion). I view mechanics as the rules of the game where strategy is how to play the game. I don't know if this is just me but it seems like he wants to blame that I'm not allowing people to discuss the rules of the game when infact I just don't like when people discuss the strategy they are going to use.
Options 1/2 about strategy are fairly weak, as I mentioned above, there are biggest fish to fry than foiling strategies most of the time when playing scum (honestly, if scum timezones dont match up good luck with getting anywhere on that, but that's outside the scope of our investigations anyways), and I would've thought that discussing strategy would be a good thing since we can actually get an agreement on some things we should(n't) do, since we've already seen (from you nonetheless) that there are problems in the reveal at night X+1 strategy. Had we not discussed this, someone could've followed the train of thought that we've discussed and just gone through with it without thinking about the fact that scum can possibly realise they've been voted for again the following day.
Irrelevant posts are generally null, and I don't really understand the last part about mechanics and strategy but it doesn't really make a case in my mind.
I didn't really care for the cases before but after voting for Umasi and wording it as a sheep vote then complaining that you've been giving reads just doesn't sit that well with me, but I'm at the same time not entirely convinced you're scum yet, there's a high possibility of frustrated town.
Wall of text catchup complete -_-
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Oh, to those who haven't played with me, prepare for these nearly every night 
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thrawn did WoS' answers to you please you?
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I also still want to know why OO asks WoS "were you scum with Vayne in Les?".
I find the word Vayne totally unnecessary in that question because Vayne is not in this game afaik. Townies tend to not put useless words in their posts, so why is it there?
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My guess is that OO misread Vanesco as Vayne(sco)
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On November 04 2013 20:59 Sylencia wrote:
My guess is that OO misread Vanesco as Vayne(sco)
Makes sense.
I also agree with everything you said in your big post, touching on alot of it already.
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On November 04 2013 12:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think the votes on Van are kinda shit.
What about now?
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Hey Syl, what was the point of that wall of text exactly?
Did you reach any conclusions?
On November 04 2013 20:59 Sylencia wrote:
My guess is that OO misread Vanesco as Vayne(sco)
Also this is a bit of a stretch. I don't think this is what OO did though I suppose it is an odd question. Rayn you seem to be insinuating that the mention of Vayne is scummy somehow and I don't follow.
Oh and Vanesco, you're getting all offended at people calling you out and nitpicking over everything you do, but people are doing it for good reason. Your play has not been very good so far. As far as you not calling people scum who vote for you---that's literally exactly what you did, and then you said after your first scum target Umasi, you'd be looking at those who 'sheeped along.' Am I supposed to take away something else from that post of yours? If so please explain.
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EPT
