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LOL.. Firstly.. how the fuck do you have a bigger filter than me.. must be the pre-game
My thoughts actually changed two or three times while I fleshed out my response - hopefully its still coherent.
(1) After checking the votes between 60min and Final.. I can see why you think the last few ppl that swapped on you, voted to ensure you were not pardoner.
(2) Most of the vets in this game have played self-centric; so I wouldnt hold credence in their words influencing the whole of town (certainly some.. but not all 25 players)
For reference of votes:
+ Show Spoiler +60min to goVisceraEyes (7): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow 10min to goVisceraEyes (9): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow, VisceraEyes, The Milkman, DoctorHelvetica Final CountVisceraEyes (10): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow, VisceraEyes, The Milkman, DoctorHelvetica, Vivax, Wade Fell
Now if this is all purely VCA.. i dont know how you go about ascertaining scum from inactives...
I now presume this was the whole point of the post (if so.. apologies, it completely went over my head first read) - i.e. discuss to determine which is scum, which is inactive.
(written after writing reads). Most of the below is pretty wishy-washy.. i guess if you didnt realise, most of these ppl haven't been on my agenda this cycle.. If I am around Day2, I will put energy into strengthening my reads.
Vivax: Null (from red) - Im actually liking his recent activity.. sure its a touch shallow but i didnt mind it.. subject to change
hassybaby: Red - already suggested for vig to check this guy out
Macho Man: Null (From red)- I really want to lynch this guy.. hes really rubbing me the wrong way... but im giving him benefit of the doubt for being in two games (and prioritizing the other game over this one).. subject to change
Restraining Order: Red - i really dont like this guy from the start.. done nothing since that I can recall vividly
randombum: Green (From null)- I dont remember what this guy did most of the game, until he called me out on aquanim.. I liked the way he did it.. I know scum can defend a town read easily.. but i liked his approach (just like milkman)
wave: Im stuck with this guy.. i would love to say bad town.. but.. that campaign for pardoner was interesting.. I would need to give this guy a dedicated filter dive to be certain.. will go bad town for time being.
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I back, ladies and gents.
A couple thoughts before I do a nice little scum case (give me an hour or so):
Mocsta, I agree with you about glurio. This is the least scummy he has ever looked and he's okay in my books. (Of course this could mean that he finally learned how to do things right, even as scum, but I find that unlikely).
As for Hassy...what makes him scummier than the other people who have been lurking like crazy? Specifically Soniv...he is SO scummy to me right now.
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Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. 
For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you.
I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw.
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On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw.
VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around.
I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't.
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He did so at by behest - because I made a post about it.
I'll comment shortly Milk, playing Magic with a buddy
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On March 01 2013 02:50 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw. VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around. I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't.
+1
its why it took me 30min to write my reply... i finally got it after making 2 posts that disagreed with him.
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On March 01 2013 02:50 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw. VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around. I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't.
Uh...here's my proper reason:
On February 28 2013 06:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm probably not going to be around until 30 min or less before day end, so I'm going to stick with my vote on VE because I have no way of knowing if the plan is going to work out. Good luck, and VE, remember that there are a lot of people who are doing their best to trust you.
I haven't thus far seen any reasons you shouldn't be lynching Prom today.
This was quite a while before the lynch, well before VE started going nuts.
Yes he was flip-flopping a bit and so i could've voted Dr.H instead (didn't want to vote BH, didn't like his single-mindedness) but meh. I wasn't going to be around and VE was a decently safe vote. Hell I even left my vote on him and warned him before I left. Simple as that.
You're welcome to dive into my filter to find more Mocsta, but in my opinion it probably makes more sense to confirm higher-priority targets for tonight/tomorrow like people's thoughts on Vivax or Hassy.
I personally have another in mind, but as I said, it's coming.
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Oh and I'll make it even more clear than that post I quoted...I assumed I was going to be around right before the vote but it turned out I wasn't until way after. I was shocked to see all that was going on.
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On March 01 2013 02:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 02:50 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw. VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around. I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't. Uh...here's my proper reason: Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 06:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm probably not going to be around until 30 min or less before day end, so I'm going to stick with my vote on VE because I have no way of knowing if the plan is going to work out. Good luck, and VE, remember that there are a lot of people who are doing their best to trust you.
I haven't thus far seen any reasons you shouldn't be lynching Prom today. This was quite a while before the lynch, well before VE started going nuts. Yes he was flip-flopping a bit and so i could've voted Dr.H instead (didn't want to vote BH, didn't like his single-mindedness) but meh. I wasn't going to be around and VE was a decently safe vote. Hell I even left my vote on him and warned him before I left. Simple as that. You're welcome to dive into my filter to find more Mocsta, but in my opinion it probably makes more sense to confirm higher-priority targets for tonight/tomorrow like people's thoughts on Vivax or Hassy. I personally have another in mind, but as I said, it's coming.
If I didnt have the pardoner campaign in my head.. you would have been green for me.
But yes, as it stands you are not a priority read for me.. good luck with ya case, i look forward to reading it.
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On March 01 2013 02:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 02:50 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw. VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around. I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't. Uh...here's my proper reason: Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 06:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm probably not going to be around until 30 min or less before day end, so I'm going to stick with my vote on VE because I have no way of knowing if the plan is going to work out. Good luck, and VE, remember that there are a lot of people who are doing their best to trust you.
I haven't thus far seen any reasons you shouldn't be lynching Prom today. This was quite a while before the lynch, well before VE started going nuts. Yes he was flip-flopping a bit and so i could've voted Dr.H instead (didn't want to vote BH, didn't like his single-mindedness) but meh. I wasn't going to be around and VE was a decently safe vote. Hell I even left my vote on him and warned him before I left. Simple as that. You're welcome to dive into my filter to find more Mocsta, but in my opinion it probably makes more sense to confirm higher-priority targets for tonight/tomorrow like people's thoughts on Vivax or Hassy. I personally have another in mind, but as I said, it's coming.
oh I didn't say I agree with him that you're red. I agree with the general assumption VE made and that's the reasoning for the post.
I didn't actually look in that kind of stuff at all yet because I think we've got better ways to deal with people and better peopel to target straight away.
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Toad explain your grush read if you don't mind
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Actually i dont like grush anymore
i was gonna save it for my end of night post but...
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On March 01 2013 02:59 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 02:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 01 2013 02:50 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2013 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Also fuck you Mocsta, I'll bad town you. For the record I agree I'm lurking more than I expected to but being in school all day and having a 2-month old kid to take care of all night will do that to you. I'm not sure why you automatically gravitate to the VE vote count for analysis, btw. VE already mentioned it: He didn't want to be mayor, he rage'ed around the deadline and he was pretty damn unreasonable when he raged. All points that should make someone question VE and yet people ended up voting him as mayor, which is somewhat weird unless it's a "fuck this DrH guy!" attitude going around. I actually agree with him. People voting VE without proper reason are weird because they should have at least stumbled upon his later posts doubting him but they apparently didn't. Uh...here's my proper reason: On February 28 2013 06:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm probably not going to be around until 30 min or less before day end, so I'm going to stick with my vote on VE because I have no way of knowing if the plan is going to work out. Good luck, and VE, remember that there are a lot of people who are doing their best to trust you.
I haven't thus far seen any reasons you shouldn't be lynching Prom today. This was quite a while before the lynch, well before VE started going nuts. Yes he was flip-flopping a bit and so i could've voted Dr.H instead (didn't want to vote BH, didn't like his single-mindedness) but meh. I wasn't going to be around and VE was a decently safe vote. Hell I even left my vote on him and warned him before I left. Simple as that. You're welcome to dive into my filter to find more Mocsta, but in my opinion it probably makes more sense to confirm higher-priority targets for tonight/tomorrow like people's thoughts on Vivax or Hassy. I personally have another in mind, but as I said, it's coming. If I didnt have the pardoner campaign in my head.. you would have been green for me. But yes, as it stands you are not a priority read for me.. good luck with ya case, i look forward to reading it.
My mindset as to the pardoner campaign was pretty transparent I think. I recognize myself as not being the most experienced player around therefore I could easily take a role nobody wanted to go to someone more...I dunno...'suspect?' and not use it. On top of that I'd be more than willing to sac myself for the good of town if that's what it took (since people were discussing the plan to eliminate pardoner at the time) if people didn't trust me. I was hoping to come up with more during the day as well so if you guys DID have to lynch me you guys could've learned stuff, that's all.
You like looking into meta, amirite? Tell me that doesn't fit with my activity last game and I may or may not have learned.
In any case, if you're not looking into me now, save it for later; it's in my filter now. K no more responses 'till I've finished my case.
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Im going to bed...
Will give a very quick breakdown on why i changed my mind on Grush
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=18#342
This is me in Mafia LIX hitting Grush for unleashing Starsenses in his first post
The key point is the spoilered meta case from Prome !
+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2013 05:32 Promethelax wrote:But I think he is town, at first I thought the green starsenses was different than his usual bread crumb but I went and looked. LVII Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 07:28 grush57 wrote:
AWWW SHEEEEEEEEEET.
I KNOW WHY TOAD CALLED ME SCUM
I FORGOT
STARSENSES. Hero Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 06:00 grush57 wrote:
Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax and a vet is my bet on scumteam.
STARSENSES. LVIII Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:29 grush57 wrote:On January 05 2013 06:17 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 05 2013 06:15 grush57 wrote:
Okay I just read the thread.. I'm going to go throw a vote on Hopeless.
##Vote: Hopeless1der Comment on Palmar, Marv or BC in the meantime Palmar- He was trolling and now he is being super op scumhunter. Now he is a good player so is that necissarily town?Idk, I don't think marv is scum but palmar has been wrong every time I played with him so far. Marv- He just claimed cop, and I don't think eh should be lynched on D1. BC- He is pretty inactive but he sais he will be back soon. He is a mega vet so I don't think we should lynch him while there are other MUCH MORE SCUMNMY LURKERS LIKE YOU HOPESS Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless.Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless.[ b]Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless.[/b] Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless. Get hopeless.ALSO, STARSENSES so I'd say he is town. Just annoying not here town.
After all that meta evidence (+ include Mafia LIX) we get the outcome
so I'd say he is town. Just annoying not here town.
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This game with a scum prome.. we get:
On February 26 2013 12:02 grush57 wrote:
oh sure
STARSENSES
I did it in the first post also btw On February 26 2013 12:06 Promethelax wrote:
You said it. But didn't bold it. I thought that might be your super gosh scum start with it.
I would say grush is mod confirmed townie at this point, we should make him or WoS pardoner.
Ironically.. this is the same quote for why I had doubts with WoS  - care to respond pl0x
Point is.. as town.. prome believes in starsenses as a town tell (for early game)... and definitely does not infer STARSENSES is mod-confirmed town tell in any way, shape or form.
This contrast in word choice, is too drastic for me to accept as a natural thought; it reads as specifically designed to let Grush fly under the radar.
(thats it... his filter is barely readable blah blah etc)
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On March 01 2013 03:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Toad explain your grush read if you don't mind
he's not town imo.
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The case against VE:
1. He's a liar. He's lied about almost everything he's said. He's running for mayor, but he doesn't want to be mayor. I documented this quite well in my previous post so I'm not going to bother continuing with it here.
2. He didn't want to remove the pardoner position at all. As of 7:03 we had 7-6-6-5 vote distribution. Not only is there what like 2 hours to consolidate votes on Prom, but we get a clear leader of VE with 9 within 15 minutes. Right before this post:
On February 28 2013 07:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I still oppose trying to put Prom as pardoner. Too many variables. Too many lurkers. Too many people who don't want to budge their vote. It's not feasible.
Plus Dr. H adds his vote around 7:30. Didn't VE say that he never wavered in wanting to lynch Prome? Didn't VE say he wanted to be pardoner to keep it out of scum's hands? Why not try and force the issue of getting to solve both goals? Lynch Scum, prevent pardoner shennannies. But no, he's wholly against any reasonable attempt to remove the pardoner.
That's right folks, there's a clear pro-town plan to wholly remove pardoner and Prome in one fell swoop and VE doesn't want to go for it because it required getting 3 people at max to put votes on Prome. There were multiple people on. There were multiple people paying attention. No reason to think that this plan wouldn't work. VE wanted to keep the pardoner in the game solely so he could be pardoner.
Any bull about vote switches to move Prome into Mayor are completely insane as those people would be vig'd and/or lynched ASAP.
3. He has made multiple attempts at trying to grab the most pro-scum role.
4. He's playing scared.
On February 28 2013 17:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
The reason I felt DocH should be mayor 3/4 through the cycle yesterday was because Promethelax was my prime candidate, but because town was in such agreement about him, I considered switching the lynch to someone else, thinking we could reach an easy as fuck majority D2 on Prom. Anyone who has played with me as town knows that I have no fear of doing unorthodox things based on my reads, and no one knows that better than me...so I made a post stepping down to let DocH run the show. DocH would have lynched Promethelax 100%.
I want to highlight this section in particular. Other than the blantant lies, Prome brings up two separate points:
A. That he's not afraid of doing unorthodox things
B. The town majority on Prome was there (aside: even if there were more people like myself who were null-to-null-minus leaning on him, most everyone in the least thought the case had merit and it was an acceptable lynch)
His solution to this situation is to "step down"? Stepping down isn't in VE's personality at all; he's Type A personality all the way. He wants to be in the driver's seat. He wants to flash his epeen and gloat left and right. He wants to not only be able to have his pick of the litter and still be able to lynch Prome later.
So why not take his target where he pleases? Is he not going to trust his reads? That's pretty easy to rule out due to personality. Is he trying to bend to the will of the people? Maybe, but as he stated, that doesn't fit him. He doesn't give a fuck what other people think of him. Is he scared of the repercussions if he didn't select Prome? Damn right. His goal is survival; nothing less, nothing more. When he got 'stuck' with Mayor he chose the option that would put the least pressure on him. He's avoiding.
Day vigs wait to do your job until morning.
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Misinterpretation or malicious misrepresentation? You be the judge.
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if ve is scum i will eat my hat
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Ad homenim attack the best defense you have?
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EPT
