I never really acctually "cared" much about refrees, except for Webb (I'm a united fan, lol), Anders Frisk (The reason why he quit) and Colina. Those three are the only ones I could name I think...
On June 21 2012 05:18 Trowa127 wrote: I have to say, I haven't seen such piss poor officiating in ages. So many bad calls t_t. Hopefully the rest of the tournament turns out better.
Its always great to see new football fans. Hope you enjoy watching your first big tournament.
More seriously (and being aware that the tournament is not yet over): Every tournament had some referee mistakes. But the only standout here was the ukrainian goal-that-never-was. Take that one away and the number bad calls regarding penalties, red cards, offsides (all given or not) or called-back-goals feels really low to me. So far only 2 red cards, one of which was a joke yes, but on the other hand, have any red cards been missed (badstuber maybe against denmark)? Yellow card average (per game) lower than at most of the recent big tournaments. Some missed penalties, but not more than usual. Offside decisions spot on most of the time.
Let's look at the 2010 world cup (ok twice as many matches but still): Lampards goal-that-never-was. Very harsh red card for an australian player (Cahill) against germany, there also should have been a penalty for them iirc. USA winning goal against slovenia being called back for nothing. A ref going card-crazy (germany vs serbia). Argentina goal against mexico scored by tevez being blatantly offside. A final in which kung-fu was just a yellow card. And probably some more I don't remember.
Both Stark and Kassai officials were dissappointing to say the least. I understand human errors, but nowadays with the extra manpower games should have near perfect calls (pointing fingers to line/goal refs). Though, got to give credit to everyone else, has been one of the best refereeing in the past few cups.
On June 21 2012 05:50 Harris1st wrote: Stark really dissappointing in his 2nd game. i still wonder how the goal ref didn't see the penalty when ramos tried to kill mandzukic
Wait, what? Why did Kuipers have to leave? i didnt see any major flaws in games he refereed. Or am I understanding this wrong and are you talking about the WC in Brazil?
EDIT: okay this makes no sense, 4 refs stay, an italian an englishman and a portugees. Hello? thats 3 out of 8 countrys still in the tourney. Maybe those not picked for the quarter finals still get to ref semis or the final?
nothing, hes an excellent ref dont get me wrong! I just find it weird that 3 out of 4 refs that stay are from a country thats still in the tourny. You may not ref your own country afaik, so theyre in trouble if portugal england and italy go through. Or am i completely off?
edit, oh wait, italy is against england, so i suppose its possible.
On June 21 2012 07:38 Adron wrote: nothing, hes an excellent ref dont get me wrong! I just find it weird that 3 out of 4 refs that stay are from a country thats still in the tourny. You may not ref your own country afaik, so theyre in trouble if portugal england and italy go through. Or am i completely off?
edit, oh wait, italy is against england, so i suppose its possible.
Sorry Adron I was replying to OP. Totally agree with your reasoning about countries left in the tourney!
Well referee from Italy-Croatia sucked honestly. Linesman offsides were weak all game long with ~4 wrong offsides. Ukraine had a disallowed clear goal but that attack came from an offside wich linesman missed again. And Span goal was from a passive offside where Navas was the man in passive offside who eventually scored. Agree on red/yellow cards which was more accurate than most WC/EURO's I recall. Other than that pretty clean torney where refs did a good job overall and mistakes always present no matter what u do unless a video replay is implemented into the game.
On June 21 2012 05:18 Trowa127 wrote: I have to say, I haven't seen such piss poor officiating in ages. So many bad calls t_t. Hopefully the rest of the tournament turns out better.
2002 is probably the most egregious this past decade or so.
On June 21 2012 05:18 Trowa127 wrote: I have to say, I haven't seen such piss poor officiating in ages. So many bad calls t_t. Hopefully the rest of the tournament turns out better.
Let's look at the 2010 world cup (ok twice as many matches but still): Lampards goal-that-never-was. Very harsh red card for an australian player (Cahill) against germany, there also should have been a penalty for them iirc. USA winning goal against slovenia being called back for nothing. A ref going card-crazy (germany vs serbia). Argentina goal against mexico scored by tevez being blatantly offside. A final in which kung-fu was just a yellow card. And probably some more I don't remember.
Kaka's red against Côte d'Ivoire, Torres's dive against Chile that resulted in Spainish goal AND red card for Chile.
On June 21 2012 07:21 Adron wrote: Wait, what? Why did Kuipers have to leave? i didnt see any major flaws in games he refereed. Or am I understanding this wrong and are you talking about the WC in Brazil?
EDIT: okay this makes no sense, 4 refs stay, an italian an englishman and a portugees. Hello? thats 3 out of 8 countrys still in the tourney. Maybe those not picked for the quarter finals still get to ref semis or the final?
Kuipers awarded a goal that was actually offside. But the problem there for him was that he waited a long time and looked very confused when he made his decision.
What I"m Really shocked to see is how Useless the Refs behind the goal line have proved to be. They missed the one decision that they were supposed to call.
I guess it's pretty unfair that only the "main" referee is being the one who is named and gets the blame all the time. They have a team and perform as a team and therefore one should at least talk about the "team of Wolfang Stark" (and the other ones, just as an example) that is dismissed now. Personally I found that Stark and Carballo (I think) personally did good jobs, they were simply let down by their assistants and now have to take the blame for that.
Referee's that are left are good ones? England vs Italy on Sunday is being ref'd by the Champions League final from Portugal. He was great in that match. Portugal vs Czech Republic has Howard Webb, world cup final referee and the best ref from England. Germany vs Greece is going to be handled by Damir Skomina from slovenia who has had a fine tournament at the moment. Spain vs France has the Italian ref Nicola Rizzoli who hasn't had that bad of a tournament either.
I've played basketball and football with Proença (England vs Italy referee). Great guy and very professionally, takes his conditioning really seriously.
On June 21 2012 06:18 Retric wrote: I think Kassai is the best referee. A shame they sent him home. Only his stupid assistant next to the goal screwed up big time.
Kassai is usually a good ref, but both his assistants made mistakes that have no place at this level. Unfortunately he became a public enemy in one of the host countries, I bet he and his team would be under so much mental pressure if they had to officiate another match - it's better for him to be sent home at this time IMO.
They should ALL be thrown out. Worst job ever at a big event. 1 Goal not given. Said goal was scored from a very clear offside, which wasn't given.
1 penalty not given. late in the 2nd half, 1 of the Eng players blocked a flank inside the area with an arm that was far outstretched behind him, neither a natural motion nor was it at his body.
On June 21 2012 19:22 snow2.0 wrote: What team refereed the Ukraine - England match?
They should ALL be thrown out. Worst job ever at a big event. 1 Goal not given. Said goal was scored from a very clear offside, which wasn't given.
1 penalty not given. late in the 2nd half, 1 of the Eng players blocked a flank inside the area with an arm that was far outstretched behind him, neither a natural motion nor was it at his body.
More really obvious offsides not given.
Not to mention an obvious penalty when one of the ukranian defenders did some incredibly obvious and heavy shirt pulling in the middle of the area, literally changing the momentum of the england player (rooney I think).
Overall the refereeing was such a trainwreck that who knows what the outcome of the game would have been had it been referee'd properly, really poor for such an important and high profile tournament.
On June 21 2012 18:01 Pandemona wrote: Referee's that are left are good ones? England vs Italy on Sunday is being ref'd by the Champions League final from Portugal. He was great in that match. Portugal vs Czech Republic has Howard Webb, world cup final referee and the best ref from England. Germany vs Greece is going to be handled by Damir Skomina from slovenia who has had a fine tournament at the moment. Spain vs France has the Italian ref Nicola Rizzoli who hasn't had that bad of a tournament either.
Worl Cup final referee is hardly a recommendation for Webb!
On June 21 2012 04:54 sharkie wrote: Wolfgang Stark, Viktor Kassai, Björn Kuipers and Carlos Velasco Carballo all had to leave. I am especially happy about Stark.
But when I see such "big names" leave and Howard Webb staying I wonder do referees become worse?
The only active referee I really respect and imo has been the best referee of the past few years is Ravshan Irmatov.
And I think being allowed to officiate the opening match of a World Cup and also officiating a full five matches shows how good he is.
It's a pity he neither got 3rd place or final match in the WC, would have been a record-breaking six matches in a WC.
well stark did an EXCELENT first game and then had 1 major mistake in the 2nd ... jaeh bad luck plz go but no reason to be happy he is gone cause at least they dont oversaw a goal xD
On June 21 2012 05:18 Trowa127 wrote: I have to say, I haven't seen such piss poor officiating in ages. So many bad calls t_t. Hopefully the rest of the tournament turns out better.
Let's look at the 2010 world cup (ok twice as many matches but still): Lampards goal-that-never-was. Very harsh red card for an australian player (Cahill) against germany, there also should have been a penalty for them iirc. USA winning goal against slovenia being called back for nothing. A ref going card-crazy (germany vs serbia). Argentina goal against mexico scored by tevez being blatantly offside. A final in which kung-fu was just a yellow card. And probably some more I don't remember.
Kaka's red against Côte d'Ivoire, Torres's dive against Chile that resulted in Spainish goal AND red card for Chile.
As far as I can recall David Villa punched one the chilenian players in that game too. :/ I'll never understand why FIFA doesn't hand out way more bans for violet behavior during games.
On June 21 2012 05:18 Trowa127 wrote: I have to say, I haven't seen such piss poor officiating in ages. So many bad calls t_t. Hopefully the rest of the tournament turns out better.
Do people get memory lapses between championships? Recent wc's and euro's haven't been much different. In fact I think so far there's been less horrible officiated games than the last world championship who had some really bad ones in the group stages.
Kassai sended home, cause he didnt allow offside goal (UKR - ENG)... Which wasnt even really his call.. For me he has been really good. I rather watch him then Howard Webb, who is very overrated in my books.
I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
On June 24 2012 19:16 Caphe wrote: I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
His style can also backfire. It destroyed the world cup final because he gave the Dutch too much leeway, thereby allowing them to disrupt the Spanish play by unfair means.
Webb has been pretty good so far. No glaring mistakes, always tries to let the game flow, and is frugal with showing cards. Pretty much all you can ask for in a ref.
On June 24 2012 19:16 Caphe wrote: I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
His style can also backfire. It destroyed the world cup final because he gave the Dutch too much leeway, thereby allowing them to disrupt the Spanish play by unfair means.
The Dutch players destroyed the world cup final more than anyone else.
On June 24 2012 19:16 Caphe wrote: I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
His style can also backfire. It destroyed the world cup final because he gave the Dutch too much leeway, thereby allowing them to disrupt the Spanish play by unfair means.
He gave like 15 yellows or whatever. Do you think it'd have been a better final if he had given 3 reds in the first 15min?
On June 24 2012 19:16 Caphe wrote: I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
His style can also backfire. It destroyed the world cup final because he gave the Dutch too much leeway, thereby allowing them to disrupt the Spanish play by unfair means.
He gave like 15 yellows or whatever. Do you think it'd have been a better final if he had given 3 reds in the first 15min?
No, surely not. But that's not the point. If you do something that should get sent off in any game (talking about De Jong esp.), it should still get you sent off in a world cup final. Do we really want to follow the logic of "It's the biggest game, so you can do whatever you want. I won't give you a red card, because it would spoil the show the world was looking for"? What kind of message does this sent to everybody out there? Once you made it to the big stage the rules no longer apply for you? If the cards are justified, nobody but the players is to blame for destroying the "show".
On June 24 2012 19:16 Caphe wrote: I support Webb for to be the ref of the Final and one of the semi. The games with him as a ref are much more smooth thus more entertaining. You can tolerate a few minor faults to make the game more smooth. I really dislike that Germany ref/Spain ref that blow the whistle at every goddam contact thus broken the game into many pieces and really slow the tempo down and make it boring.
His style can also backfire. It destroyed the world cup final because he gave the Dutch too much leeway, thereby allowing them to disrupt the Spanish play by unfair means.
The Dutch players destroyed the world cup final more than anyone else.
Apart from that challenge by De Jong (which should have been deep deep red), we didn't play that harsh, no more than the Spanish at least.
EPT
