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Heyo TL,
I Q:ed   MaNa and   Ret prior to the third round of TSL.
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/news/11169-mana-hoping-to-cope-with-the-pressure-against-castro
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/news/11174-ret-talks-about-korea-and-teamliquid-starleague
Interview with MaNa
+ Show Spoiler +How do you feel about the upcoming match against CaStrO? You've recently been seen losing to quite a lot of Zerg players recently? Is that something you've been having trouble with in the past?- Right now I feel confident I can say. Yes I've been losing to zergs, had some bad streak and I had also some big problems with PvsZ, now I practiced some and I know what I did wrong in those games. I hope that it will not happen again. Care to tell us what those wrongs were?- I did not make my third expansion fast enough, I just camped in my natural macroing. Now I know that if I wont make my third expansion fast enough I will already have lost the game if I lose my first attack. Read the full interview here!
Interview with ret
+ Show Spoiler +And how is the transitioning to ZvZ going? Do you rate yourself as good in it as in TvZ?- Well it's a different matchup. In TvZ, if you are the best player, you will rarely lose a game. In ZvZ you can be the best, and still drop games occasionally, that's why people call it a coin-flip. But I feel my ZvZ is in tune with my other matchups in terms of skill. My TvZ was probably better though back when I played it a lot. There have been a lot of rumours and talk going on about your current stay in Korea. Could you go through and tell the readers how your situation is right now?- I'm going home on the 28th, and playing one last courage tournament on the 24th. Regardless of the result, I will be heading home 4 days later. All in all I've only been in the estro house for about 3 weeks, it's a shame the way things turned out. And being out here certainly hasn't been good on my wallet. Read the full interview here!
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nice read, especially ret's interview
thanks
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Thanks Raistlin, nice to read an interview with mana. Didnt know he was so young, baby-gosu generation ftw!
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cheers
edit: sad to hear that about Ret.  Lets hope SKT pay for him to return and give him some well earned respect
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rets interview is so good, i totally understand him and why he left. I would have done the same thing, koreans not respecting him that's just so bad. He got my full support on this.
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On January 16 2010 23:32 NiGoL wrote:
rets interview is so good, i totally understand him and why he left. I would have done the same thing, koreans not respecting him that's just so bad. He got my full support on this.
why people keep think they korean should care about him? he wanted to come to their house and he should obey their rules... if u invite someone to ur home or ur country u also expect that he will obey ur rules ...
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On January 16 2010 23:36 kulik- wrote:
why people keep think they korean should care about him? he wanted to come to their house and he should obey their rules... if u invite someone to ur home or ur country u also expect that he will obey ur rules ...
While I don't agree with Ret's choice of words that he traveled across the globe for them, I don't think it's fair to just say put up or shut up. Rules are one thing but as one person to another if a stranger comes to your house the courtesy of trying to talk to each other can make a huge difference. I think what most people expect is not that these players spend their hours practicing with him (which would have been nice too) but that they just tried to be nice to a foreigner who must be feeling very alone at times.
When I was in Korea I didn't practice with Jinnam/Jinsu much, on the other hand Gundam did practice a lot with me, but whenever I talked to any of them they were super-nice regardless. It's not that hard to be nice.
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How is Ret going to chat about games with Koreans if he can't even speak Korean >,<
It's not the Estro Koreans fault that they only know their native language.
________
It's like me going to a PC bang and asking some random Korean for strats. He'll probably look at me and be like WTF. Lol I have been given tips by one Korean Terran player a while back. My GF's brother also plays Starcraft like a religion. I keep telling her to get him to teach me. LOL
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On January 16 2010 23:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2010 23:36 kulik- wrote:
why people keep think they korean should care about him? he wanted to come to their house and he should obey their rules... if u invite someone to ur home or ur country u also expect that he will obey ur rules ... While I don't agree with Ret's choice of words that he traveled across the globe for them, I don't think it's fair to just say put up or shut up. Rules are one thing but as one person to another if a stranger comes to your house the courtesy of trying to talk to each other can make a huge difference. I think what most people expect is not that these players spend their hours practicing with him (which would have been nice too) but that they just tried to be nice to a foreigner who must be feeling very alone at times. When I was in Korea I didn't practice with Jinnam/Jinsu much, on the other hand Gundam did practice a lot with me, but whenever I talked to any of them they were super-nice regardless. It's not that hard to be nice.
imo now its different time than it was back then ... when u were there is was more amateur in my eyes now its more about sacrice and more professional... because in korea there are too many gosus at ur time u were gosu even in korean term.. but now ret is one of many
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The gap between amateurs and professionals becoming larger shouldn't influence approaching a person that is very alone in a foreign country in my eyes. Being more professional should not imply you don't try to talk to people that are living in the same house as you.
I can understand if you refuse to play against someone who is below your level but even so if you are a team and as a coach see the potential in a player you can make it happen. If you don't see the potential in a player; safe everyone a lot of effort and don't get him to join the team.
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On January 17 2010 00:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The gap between amateurs and professionals becoming larger shouldn't influence approaching a person that is very alone in a foreign country in my eyes. Being more professional should not imply you don't try to talk to people that are living in the same house as you.
but this houses are not about living... but about makin livin imo
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no offense but Mana looks kinda like an alien ?
hes so skinny and.. wow ô.Ô
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On January 17 2010 00:22 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
no offense but Mana looks kinda like an alien ?
hes so skinny and.. wow ô.Ô
lol
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Sad to hear that ret is leaving, but oh well, looking back at rekruls post it makes sense. My respect for idra only keeps growing because of this, the amount of shit he's been bombarded with just makes his tenacy admirible.
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Sad to hear about ret. He seems very frustrated with his situation there. I really kept my fingers crossed for him but too bad it didn't work out. I guess thge environment is just too hostile for a foreigner to stay there long, in general.
Hopefully he will win both the courage and TSL.
And go MaNA. I want to see a couple of Protoss players in Ro16!
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thanks for this fresh stuff.
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United States23455 Posts
On January 17 2010 00:22 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
no offense but Mana looks kinda like an alien ?
hes so skinny and.. wow ô.Ô
He looks like a Foreign Effort.
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Very nice interviews, really too bad about Ret's situation, but i can totally understand how he feels.
Good luck in the TSL and the upcoming Courage!
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Mana is so small... Fuck this TSL shit, I say we have a wrestling match MaNa vs KawaiiRice!
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Sad to hear about ret but GL in courage anyway.
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Sad to hear ret's coming back from Korea, but I agree with him that they should allow him perhaps more decency than they did, and the initial incident with the replays/iming sure didn't help.
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What sadden me the most are the people writing mean stuff on gosugamers even though they know no more than the rest of us. If ret feel that he cant continue to play in korea, its obviously the best desicion to return home.
From my personal experiance with koreans theyre not difficult to live with at all. I shared dormitory with Koreans for a couple of months, we didnt speak the same language or culture but there were never any problem. On the contrary they were always extremely friendly making me food and we often drank together. .. Guess its different if you come to their "turf" and fight with them for a spot on the team. I don't know, just my guess.
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Well none of us know exactly what happened except for ret. But as Nazgul said, I think we can all appreciate how tough it is being in another country and how lonely that can be at times, being away from friends and family.
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On January 18 2010 15:48 InClass wrote:
Well none of us know exactly what happened except for ret. But as Nazgul said, I think we can all appreciate how tough it is being in another country and how lonely that can be at times, being away from friends and family.
I guess it affects people different. I moved abroad when I was 19 It's never been very hard for me. I think it has to a lot with what kind of person you are and how well you fit in to the society and group you end up in.
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I hope ret wins courage. That would just be glorious. Good job trying in Korea though, ret.
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Ret
Although I know that it is unlikely for you to ever read this, I have something to say to you.
From what you wrote/said in your interview, I believe you are blaming the Koreans for your unsuccessful attempt to become a "progamer". You are TOTALLY wrong for many various reasons.
You are too old
If I am not mistaken, you were born in 1985 (24years old in 2009). You were/are simply too old. I am a Korean person and my younger brother who is 16 literally have real-life friends who are currently in the progaming scene(as practice partners in proteams). I know for a fact that the average age is around 16~18 for "practice partners", and MOST B-teamers are younger than 20, and you would know that 90% of the players who play televised games were born after 1990.
Humans begin to "age" physically from the age of around 20~22. Starcraft has become too sophisticated, too physically demanding, and require too much sensitivity from your eyes/brain/ears/fingers (which are qualities dramatically lost after the age of 22ish) to be a successful "progamer".
It was YOUR mistake, and was VERY naive of you from the first place for you to go to Korea and expect to be successful, when the competition to become a progamer increases every day.
You do not "stand out" skillwise to the ProScene.
Let's assume that you were a Korean person, who could FULLY speak Korean and was a reasonably socialising person, but with had same conditions as the "White Ret",
that is, the Korean is 24 years old, and have the identical skill-level as you at your best.
DON'T tell me that this imaginary person would have succeeded in the Progaming scene. Do you believe that if you had the same skin color and could speak fluently like the Koreans your skill would have been outstanding to the Proteam or its members? At your peak performance your skill level would have been mediocre at best even to a poor B-team, and it is human instinct to want to practice with the good players in order to improve. Yes, if you were a Korean you would have been less failing socially and perhaps this could have led you to more chances to play with the members, but it simply would not have impressed the members enough.
You said it yourself. "I still believe my ZvP and ZvT are certainly not worse than korean b-teamers right now". Perhaps your belief is not totally false, and perhaps you indeed are "not worse than" the Koreans. However your wording itself backs my argument, as it implies that you are no better than them. You know yourself that you do not stand out as a gifted player, yet you fail to perceive this situation from a 3rd person's perspective, and say "some Koreans just don't give you any respect". I don't know what kind of respect other than the really basic manners you could possibly expect from the Koreans.
It is simply ridiculous to consider yourself in a respectful position skillwise, when there are literally hundreds of other koreans better than you at the game. Those players would be much younger than you and thus have more potential, and the cultural barrier is non-existent - much easier to manage. Don't you think it is natural for the Koreans to prefer them over you?
I don't understand why the Korean proteams were obliged to give you special respect when it was by your own choice, not by an invitation, to have flew to Korea. To them you are just a random player with not-so-unique skill. You may be good in the foreign scene, and perhaps one of TOP players, they simply do not have to give a shit.
Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them.
You mentioned that you expect them to "talk[ing] about the game" which is a contradiction. You mentioned that you experienced language barrier and this had disadvantaged you greatly. Well think from their perspective. Lets imagine a Korean player had played a game against you and lost. Don't you agree that the Korean player desire to "talk about the game" as much as you do? They would want to speak about their loss or victory, but they are unable to do so with you. What is so disrespectful about avoiding you when they know that they will not be able to talk with you after a game?
It got pretty long but that is my view, as a Korean who watched the starcraft progaming since boxer's domination. To be honest I never even heard of you until last May or so. I have nothing against you personally or consider myself a better player than you, but you should not deny that you did not do sufficient research before you just flew to Korea. True, there may have been faults from the Korean's side(which i do not know since you won't provide details), but they are irrelevent.
Your attitude in this interview is like having walked into hell and blaming Satan for being so evil.
A more helpful attitude would be "It was a mistake, I should have done more research, talk to more people (like nrg.god- who would have stopped you) before i left, now i learned my lesson, and this will certainly help me in future predicaments"
Oh and finally, good luck in courage league.
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On January 21 2010 02:49 NrG.GoD- wrote:
Ret
Although I know that it is unlikely for you to ever read this, I have something to say to you.
From what you wrote/said in your interview, I believe you are blaming the Koreans for your unsuccessful attempt to become a "progamer". You are TOTALLY wrong for many various reasons.
You are too old
If I am not mistaken, you were born in 1985 (24years old in 2009). You were/are simply too old. I am a Korean person and my younger brother who is 16 literally have real-life friends who are currently in the progaming scene(as practice partners in proteams). I know for a fact that the average age is around 16~18 for "practice partners", and MOST B-teamers are younger than 20, and you would know that 90% of the players who play televised games were born after 1990.
Humans begin to "age" physically from the age of around 20~22. Starcraft has become too sophisticated, too physically demanding, and require too much sensitivity from your eyes/brain/ears/fingers (which are qualities dramatically lost after the age of 22ish) to be a successful "progamer".
It was YOUR mistake, and was VERY naive of you from the first place for you to go to Korea and expect to be successful, when the competition to become a progamer increases every day.
You do not "stand out" skillwise to the ProScene.
Let's assume that you were a Korean person, who could FULLY speak Korean and was a reasonably socialising person, but with had same conditions as the "White Ret",
that is, the Korean is 24 years old, and have the identical skill-level as you at your best.
DON'T tell me that this imaginary person would have succeeded in the Progaming scene. Do you believe that if you had the same skin color and could speak fluently like the Koreans your skill would have been outstanding to the Proteam or its members? At your peak performance your skill level would have been mediocre at best even to a poor B-team, and it is human instinct to want to practice with the good players in order to improve. Yes, if you were a Korean you would have been less failing socially and perhaps this could have led you to more chances to play with the members, but it simply would not have impressed the members enough.
You said it yourself. "I still believe my ZvP and ZvT are certainly not worse than korean b-teamers right now". Perhaps your belief is not totally false, and perhaps you indeed are "not worse than" the Koreans. However your wording itself backs my argument, as it implies that you are no better than them. You know yourself that you do not stand out as a gifted player, yet you fail to perceive this situation from a 3rd person's perspective, and say "some Koreans just don't give you any respect". I don't know what kind of respect other than the really basic manners you could possibly expect from the Koreans.
It is simply ridiculous to consider yourself in a respectful position skillwise, when there are literally hundreds of other koreans better than you at the game. Those players would be much younger than you and thus have more potential, and the cultural barrier is non-existent - much easier to manage. Don't you think it is natural for the Koreans to prefer them over you?
I don't understand why the Korean proteams were obliged to give you special respect when it was by your own choice, not by an invitation, to have flew to Korea. To them you are just a random player with not-so-unique skill. You may be good in the foreign scene, and perhaps one of TOP players, they simply do not have to give a shit.
Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them.
You mentioned that you expect them to "talk[ing] about the game" which is a contradiction. You mentioned that you experienced language barrier and this had disadvantaged you greatly. Well think from their perspective. Lets imagine a Korean player had played a game against you and lost. Don't you agree that the Korean player desire to "talk about the game" as much as you do? They would want to speak about their loss or victory, but they are unable to do so with you. What is so disrespectful about avoiding you when they know that they will not be able to talk with you after a game?
It got pretty long but that is my view, as a Korean who watched the starcraft progaming since boxer's domination. To be honest I never even heard of you until last May or so. I have nothing against you personally or consider myself a better player than you, but you should not deny that you did not do sufficient research before you just flew to Korea. True, there may have been faults from the Korean's side(which i do not know since you won't provide details), but they are irrelevent.
Your attitude in this interview is like having walked into hell and blaming Satan for being so evil.
A more helpful attitude would be "It was a mistake, I should have done more research, talk to more people (like nrg.god- who would have stopped you) before i left, now i learned my lesson, and this will certainly help me in future predicaments"
Oh and finally, good luck in courage league.
I didn't find a single arguement in your "post of everything everybody pretty much knows already without even beeing able to read korean" that backs up your point.
Your ridiculous chapter on "respect" actually only showed the obvious lack of personal education and manner you carry around.
As for your "numerous friends on pro teams" it's actually fun for you to have these kind of connections, and yet, failing to provide any sort of insight or anything really new about pro gaming teams and how they work. (If you did provide this kind of insight, however, maybe I would've give little credit to you.)
However, you basically just acted like any inflated young Korean nerdy male that just spends to much time posting on the bazillions of shitty korean boards.
If you did take at least a minute or two to think about all this, maybe you would've realised that indeed Ret wasn't superior skillwise to most pros and semis because he actually never lived in Korea and didn't grow up in a shitty pc bang eating ramen for 5 years straight.
Now what could be more impressive is that Ret actually found the time and opportunity to fly over Korea and give it a shot without having spend 5 fucking years since he was 12 years old eating ramen in a dirty place, and that, what he had accomplished skillwise from his house in Europe, is actually quite impressive and demanding.
While I lived in Korea, I often met online (rarely in real life, as your specie usually dislikes exteriors) people talking just like you. Often, if a girl friend would sit next to me at that time, reading such things, she would go on laughing and telling me about young Korean netizens and their lack of manner, education, self criticism, and more largely, intelligence.
Ret isn't wrong in his statements, as they describe an experience he lived while you didn't. Now, I can easily imagine the hell Estro house is.
After all, wasn't this pro team created by one of + Show Spoiler +the worst and biggest liar there ever was ?
Not to mention the things ret and others politely call "cultural differences" aren't pretty much "cultural" but just an collection of very dirty and annoying traits you can easily find in this country.
Pro gaming has always been hard, but not only because of the insane skill level. Pro gaming is a difficult thing, because it often attracts real life bandits and losers.
Edit : there's a whole other topic on the opportunity of Ret going to Korea for pro gaming that Rekrul fully explained, and the truth there ( at least what I got out of it) was that Pro gaming was and still is, a very narrowed minded business, no matter what casters can say about "recognition of e sports in general", and that Ret is fucking nuts for trying it. But the thing is, but Grrrr..., everysingle foreigner that gave a shot at korea and pro gaming, was indeed, fucking nuts =).
When I was "pro gamer", I only was sponsored because I looked good and could play starcraft decently.
Unless you're a starleague champion, people don't care about you in Korea and pro gaming. That goes for Koeans as well.
Now tell me why a 24 years old Ret doesn't have any right to try out Korea and climb the ladder just like Idra tries to, for someday maybe, to become good enough for pro league ?
Lol I forgot about your physiological statements. hahahah common Korean people are full of stuff like this, they heard either on TV or read on the internet, and that often, even if true, is completely unrelated to the point they're trying to make.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them.
Tru that. Dunno why ret chooses such words in public interviews. He's just frustrated.
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On January 21 2010 04:03 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them. Tru that. Dunno why ret chooses such words in public interviews. He's just frustrated.
I think Ret meant "for them" as in "for this particular team" that wasn't nice to him. Like he wouldn't have asked himself these questions if the people treated him nicely.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 21 2010 04:09 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 04:03 Rekrul wrote:Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them. Tru that. Dunno why ret chooses such words in public interviews. He's just frustrated. I think Ret meant "for them" as in "for this particular team" that wasn't nice to him. Like he wouldn't have asked himself these questions if the people treated him nicely.
This whole ordeal was not only the fault of Estro though.
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On January 21 2010 04:18 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 04:09 Boonbag wrote:On January 21 2010 04:03 Rekrul wrote:Also I don't understand what you mean by "travels halfway across the globe FOR YOU".
You did NOT travel for them, you travelled for YOURSELF, your dream, your glory.
"You start to wonder why you are trying your best for THESE PEOPLE"
What benefits are you providing to the Koreans? You aren't helping them improve skillwise, and certainly you aren't bringing monetary gain to them. Tru that. Dunno why ret chooses such words in public interviews. He's just frustrated. I think Ret meant "for them" as in "for this particular team" that wasn't nice to him. Like he wouldn't have asked himself these questions if the people treated him nicely. This whole ordeal was not only the fault of Estro though.
Well, for sure I take your word on that.
Just having randomxxnetizen showing up just to have an ego orgasm saying "LOLOLOLOL you white trash what you think Korea owes to you ?" Pissed me off and you can prolly understand why.
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interesting interview ty
hey ret if u read this, did you know any of the team members online before you joined?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On January 16 2010 23:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2010 23:36 kulik- wrote:
why people keep think they korean should care about him? he wanted to come to their house and he should obey their rules... if u invite someone to ur home or ur country u also expect that he will obey ur rules ... While I don't agree with Ret's choice of words that he traveled across the globe for them, I don't think it's fair to just say put up or shut up. Rules are one thing but as one person to another if a stranger comes to your house the courtesy of trying to talk to each other can make a huge difference. I think what most people expect is not that these players spend their hours practicing with him (which would have been nice too) but that they just tried to be nice to a foreigner who must be feeling very alone at times. When I was in Korea I didn't practice with Jinnam/Jinsu much, on the other hand Gundam did practice a lot with me, but whenever I talked to any of them they were super-nice regardless. It's not that hard to be nice.
I totally agree with you, but you need to put things in perspective to realize why it's different from now and back then. Yes I agree with you it shouldn't be different BUT:
Back then with AMD/Hexatron there are many factors that contributed to it being much more 'frienidly' and 'easy-going' and 'helpful.'
First of all the players you are talking about Jinnam/Jinsu Gundam etc. were already in favor of foreigners because of Giyom and Elky making such an impact on the Korean scene and the Koreans on their team loving them as not only gamers but people too. This 'primed' in a sense them to respect you a lot more. Also, your skill level at the time was comparable to theirs...the skill gap was not much. The overall progaming player base was probably 5-10% as big back then as it is now. Everyone pretty much loved everyone, except Elky he always hated boxer cause boxer always raped him lolol.
Secondly is progamer teams were like 'clubs' back then as opposed to 'professional teams.' You know what I mean when I say this. People did not have to practice 24/7, teams did all kinds of fun activities together from time to time, went out to dinner a lot together, etc etc. The atmosphere was much more relaxed and people didn't really have to fear getting shit from their coach/manager that much. I mean seriously even when I played Lovedom was team captain for a while and what did he do when I started playing poker instead of starcraft: nothing, he started playing with me. LOL.
Thirdly, and most importantly: Times were good back then for the koreans players you dealt with. Progaming wasn't even close to as competitive and hard, they all had their respective fame, they all were paid atleast decent salaries. They had plenty of time to go out and meet girls. AKA they had damn good lives and were happier people with no real reasons to be anything but gracious and nice to you.
Ahhh the good ole days.
So you can't really blame the ESTRO players that much. I mean, yeah, if the players were cool people Ret would have been totally fine, but they are broke kids living in a B team house of one of the lesser progaming teams with not much going for them in this life so you can understand what would hold them back from being so 'helpful.'
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#Boonbag
When you quote me please use EXACT words.
My mention of knowing people inside certain proteams was to back-up my point that most "practice partners" are YOUNG.
"Korean people are full of stuff like this, they heard either on TV or read on the internet"
You telling me that a factor of the "Old Gamers" not playing so well is not related to their age? A lot of the people that are in the Air Force Ace team are around ret's age, and they lose to B-team gamers. If you don't agree that age is disadvantaging the players, think again.
You mentioned something about ret's right to challenge. I don't recall writing anything about rights. It was his choice and clearly it didn't turn out too well. Rather than blame the Koreans who will not be affected at all by this "incident", you don't think it would be wiser for ret to evaluate himself and perhaps learn lessons for his life?
"Your ridiculous chapter on "respect" actually only showed the obvious lack of personal education and manner you carry around."
Explain what part of my argument is invalid. You telling me he deserved respect based on skill?
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If you had such negative views on our race, then perhaps you should have tried to stop ret walking into hell.
Tell me logically what the Koreans should have done, and please, be realistic
You see, I was evaluating this "incident" from my perspective. Don't you agree that this attempt clearly didn't work out too well for ret, as he virtually wasted time and money, it would be wiser to evaluate himself and learn a lesson? Don't you think it's better to seek to gain something hard to buy with money - experience - from this?
if you think i just say "LOLOLOLOL you white trash what you think Korea owes to you ?", and am telling the white guys to stay out of Korea, that is unfortunate.
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Canada9720 Posts
if you've watched the interviews done with ret and read his posts here on TL, it's clear he doesn't place all the blame on estro. like naz said, he's just disappointed
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On January 21 2010 05:22 NrG.GoD- wrote:
If you had such negative views on our race, then perhaps you should have tried to stop ret walking into hell.
I live with a Korean girl.
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On January 21 2010 02:49 NrG.GoD- wrote:
longish post
This isn't about Koreans showing ret respect because of his skill, it's just a matter of common decency to not completely ignore someone who's new to your country and team. Noone's expecting these guys to give ret special treatment, but refusing to play him and just leaving him to play iccup alone all day is really low.
Anyway, Rek already gave a good explanation of why the b-teamers behaved the way they did (they really don't have it easy themselves), but regardless it's not a very nice thing to do.
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On January 21 2010 05:22 NrG.GoD- wrote:
Humans begin to "age" physically from the age of around 20~22. Starcraft has become too sophisticated, too physically demanding, and require too much sensitivity from your eyes/brain/ears/fingers (which are qualities dramatically lost after the age of 22ish) to be a successful "progamer".
You are so ridiculous, lol. Even athletes traditionally hit their primes after 22. Musicians? Even later. Seriously, some people still grow in their 20's. And regardless, you honestly think that 1 or 2 years of aging will slow you down in any significant way? Yea, you must think that people are cripples when they reach their 30's.
Becoming adults + playing the same game for 5000 hours -> sick of sc. That's all there is to it.
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If I was ret I would be disappointed as well...
If you get no respect/no attempts at communication from other members- what's the point of being a team at all?
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On January 21 2010 09:53 Picture wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 05:22 NrG.GoD- wrote:
Humans begin to "age" physically from the age of around 20~22. Starcraft has become too sophisticated, too physically demanding, and require too much sensitivity from your eyes/brain/ears/fingers (which are qualities dramatically lost after the age of 22ish) to be a successful "progamer".
You are so ridiculous, lol. Even athletes traditionally hit their primes after 22. Musicians? Even later. Seriously, some people still grow in their 20's. And regardless, you honestly think that 1 or 2 years of aging will slow you down in any significant way? Yea, you must think that people are cripples when they reach their 30's. Becoming adults + playing the same game for 5000 hours -> sick of sc. That's all there is to it.
This.
I'd say it's a combination of the excessive practice regimes and growing up and having your eyes open to the world of possibilities (let's not forget that you have to be some kind of special hardcore nerd to be up for a korean progamer's lifestyle... there's no doubt you're fucking sheltered as a result).
By all reports, this is not the life of a professional tennis player who travels the world with the adoration of millions, the glamour and glitz of all the media commitments/deals and yet retains the ability to have a reasonable social life.
Years of 13 hour practice days without the real promise of even a reasonable wage... plus the realisation that, once they reach the top, if they don't maintain that schedule they will fall tenfold faster than they rose... No fucking wonder all the top players discover girls, partying et al and stop performing. Why would they give a shit at that point?
13 hours a day for Jaedong's salary and no life? Give me a fucking break.
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i think the guys at estro might have seen ret as a threat, seeing he was about as good as them. he is also an older guy from a different race, culture, etc. that can't speak their language, the age difference alone, in the case of a korean would have been an issue. Ret's expectations were a bit high as well, perhaps thinking the koreans being surprised at how good he was and finding out that in korea he was just an average player that couldn't play zvz. the kids at estro are very young and play starcraft all day so they are probably very immature and might have tried to give ret a hard time. i speculate of course, but it wouldn't be too surprising. Anyway i hope ret does well in his next courage and gets some money back from what he spent in korea by going far in tsl.
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That's too bad for Ret. Never thought that Koreans would throw shit at him all day though, and let him practice all alone on iccup. Kinda takes out the whole point of being in a progaming house. Hope you win courage though! And good luck in the TSL man! : D
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Very interesting interview. Good luck in TSL ret.
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I don't know if people realize how good Mana is and yet Castro still beat him easily in their bo5.
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Good to read what they both have to say, and best of luck to ret who has impressed and inspired so many - gg to that,
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EPT
