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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion.
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On December 19 2011 09:57 LeibSaiLeib wrote:
Hello gay people!
I have a question, my mother is obsessed with some toughts about gay people, these are:
1)Gay people do parades and stuff, but do hetero people do parades? no they dont (she obv means parade about beeing hetero)
2)Cant gay people shut up, i woudlnt mind if they would be gay, but they dont have to advertise it ALL THE TIME.
3)I say to her that discrimination is real thing still, even if people say it isnt every single reasearch shows that discrimination is real and happens all the time. Then she responds that discrimination is also towards fat people, "ugly" people etc, why arent they geting attention? Why must gay people have more rights then others?
I really dunno how to answer these questions without her bringind up one of those reasons above. So id ask those questions of gay people here, since i dont know any in real life (well atelast i dont care if somone is gay or not so i never ever ask, and if they say he is gay, dont give a dam).
Well Gay people do parades as a celebration of who they are. Much like xmas parades celebrates holidays, thanksgiving celebrates thanksgiving and so on and so forth.
Well then the next time your mother kisses her husband/boyfriend tell her, "it's okay to be hetero and shit, but must you advertise it?"
Lastly, let's just preface this response with the fact that your question starts off incorrect. The same sex community actually has less rights than others, just ask any fat or ugly married couples. Additionally, when you say "fat" or "ugly" it ultimately comes down to personal preference. I, for one, find Paris Hilton supremely ugly, however, many find her amazingly gorgeous, see the things your are trying to compare homosexuality to are physical appearance related, not personality based.
You should tell your mom she should open her eyes to the real world.
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Leib, instead of taking the arguments she makes, and coming here to see if anyone has any strong counters to them. (I assure you they do, and whilst I haven't seen most of this thread, I have seen some very well articulated responses to some of the notions your mums expressing)
Why not consider the arguments shes making, and then think to yourself whether they seem correct or justified?
If you think they are, then perhaps consider posting the reasons why you think they are valid, and then ask if anyone can perhaps change your mind, or express a different opinion that might make you see it in a different way.
Or, even better! consider what shes suggesting and think what about the arguments are weak or unjustified, or perhaps what aspects or things she has ignored or overlooked in forming a judgement.
Just to let you know there isnt a "right" answer to this. It's not the case, no matter what people in this thread may think, that she is simply wrong, and her arguments unsubstantiated, just as the reverse would not be true, if someone were to express it also.
TL;DR Have a think about it yourself, and try to come up with your own ideas on where her arguments may be correct, and where they may be weak 
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On December 19 2011 09:57 LeibSaiLeib wrote:
Hello gay people!
I have a question, my mother is obsessed with some toughts about gay people, these are:
1)Gay people do parades and stuff, but do hetero people do parades? no they dont (she obv means parade about beeing hetero)
2)Cant gay people shut up, i woudlnt mind if they would be gay, but they dont have to advertise it ALL THE TIME.
3)I say to her that discrimination is real thing still, even if people say it isnt every single reasearch shows that discrimination is real and happens all the time. Then she responds that discrimination is also towards fat people, "ugly" people etc, why arent they geting attention? Why must gay people have more rights then others?
I really dunno how to answer these questions without her bringind up one of those reasons above. So id ask those questions of gay people here, since i dont know any in real life (well atelast i dont care if somone is gay or not so i never ever ask, and if they say he is gay, dont give a dam).
Seems 1's been covered...
Personally I don't advertize my homosexuality ALL THE TIME, its just the people who do make it obvious to you/your mom (and may be the only gays she knows of), and she'd probably be surprised at some of the people she may have stereotyped as straight. I talk about it when it's relevant or somebody asks me.
As far as discrimination goes if it's something like being fat, they can change that. For example, I used to be fat in middle/high school.... people called me fat every day.... I lost weight. Not saying that's right, but either way I had control over it. That doesn't hold up for being ugly, however if somebody is discriminating against you for your looks than that person obviously has insecurities with themselves and is looking for a pick me up via put-downs (assuming you didn't initiate it). Public schools these days are putting more efforts towards bullying (not enough but its a start), and I'm pretty sure the gay kids aren't getting special treatment in that department.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 19 2011 09:41 GDR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 08:49 Klondikebar wrote:On December 19 2011 08:44 RoMGraViTy wrote:On December 19 2011 07:34 GDR wrote:On December 19 2011 06:02 jarrydesque wrote:On December 19 2011 03:01 Axero wrote:On December 18 2011 17:19 jarrydesque wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway - Side note - Is anyone playing Star Wars - The Old Republic? Got my hands on it today and installing as we speak. I'm interested to see how Bioware has done with a MMO. What server are you playing on? I'm grabbing the game tomorrow. Looks amazing from what I've seen my friend play so far. There is a server called Frost *something*. Frost claw or Frost Talon - we'll be on that server - joining a bunch of friends I used to play wow with. Twilight I would totally just turn Edward to ash, slap Bella... and Jacob could come home with me.. for sho. I spent the whole day in the pool - we had such a lovely lunch and LOTS of wine... I'm feeling quite sunburnt and hung over right now  . Oh, Jacob. Why can't you be a good actor? So sexy. I'm buying SW:TOR, but I imagine all of you are on a EU server. I have no problem playing on one, but I'm not sure if I buy a copy in the US if I can play on EU servers. If they set it up like Blizzard does. Agreed, that series can rot in a fire, but Lautner.....stunning. He's also underage you perverts.  He is like... The same age as me. So young! t.t Also, mornings? They're pretty easy. I don't generally wake up too-too early, but regardless the amount I have slept, I can wake up on a dime. I often go to sleep 3 or 4 am (this weekend actually for Blizzard Cup!), and then wake up the following day 6:30 am to go for work. Somehow I manage.
Yeah, he's not underage. And I detest mornings :x
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On December 19 2011 07:34 GDR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 06:02 jarrydesque wrote:On December 19 2011 03:01 Axero wrote:On December 18 2011 17:19 jarrydesque wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway - Side note - Is anyone playing Star Wars - The Old Republic? Got my hands on it today and installing as we speak. I'm interested to see how Bioware has done with a MMO. What server are you playing on? I'm grabbing the game tomorrow. Looks amazing from what I've seen my friend play so far. There is a server called Frost *something*. Frost claw or Frost Talon - we'll be on that server - joining a bunch of friends I used to play wow with. Twilight I would totally just turn Edward to ash, slap Bella... and Jacob could come home with me.. for sho. I spent the whole day in the pool - we had such a lovely lunch and LOTS of wine... I'm feeling quite sunburnt and hung over right now . Oh, Jacob. Why can't you be a good actor? So sexy. I'm buying SW:TOR, but I imagine all of you are on a EU server. I have no problem playing on one, but I'm not sure if I buy a copy in the US if I can play on EU servers. If they set it up like Blizzard does. .
I looked through the FAQs and it turns out US clients can access EU servers, so no problem there.
And speaking of Lautner, his acting was so awkward in that newer movie he starred in. I can't remember the name of it, but it had Sigourney Weaver in it also.
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On December 19 2011 10:15 XeliN wrote:Leib, instead of taking the arguments she makes, and coming here to see if anyone has any strong counters to them. (I assure you they do, and whilst I haven't seen most of this thread, I have seen some very well articulated responses to some of the notions your mums expressing) Why not consider the arguments shes making, and then think to yourself whether they seem correct or justified? If you think they are, then perhaps consider posting the reasons why you think they are valid, and then ask if anyone can perhaps change your mind, or express a different opinion that might make you see it in a different way. Or, even better! consider what shes suggesting and think what about the arguments are weak or unjustified, or perhaps what aspects or things she has ignored or overlooked in forming a judgement. Just to let you know there isnt a "right" answer to this. It's not the case, no matter what people in this thread may think, that she is simply wrong, and her arguments unsubstantiated, just as the reverse would not be true, if someone were to express it also. TL;DR Have a think about it yourself, and try to come up with your own ideas on where her arguments may be correct, and where they may be weak
you didnt read my post, i sayd i have nothing against gay people and i try to argue with her, and its common for her to bring up the gay matter and sometimes we get into fights over it. I usually find arguments against her, but she dosent listen to them, i am asking from here to get different perspective
EDIT! reareading first post, i guess it might be interperted as i am homophobic, but not beeing against gay/coloured etc etc people is so given to me that i dont usually think about looking homophobic etc.
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On December 19 2011 11:16 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 10:15 XeliN wrote:Leib, instead of taking the arguments she makes, and coming here to see if anyone has any strong counters to them. (I assure you they do, and whilst I haven't seen most of this thread, I have seen some very well articulated responses to some of the notions your mums expressing) Why not consider the arguments shes making, and then think to yourself whether they seem correct or justified? If you think they are, then perhaps consider posting the reasons why you think they are valid, and then ask if anyone can perhaps change your mind, or express a different opinion that might make you see it in a different way. Or, even better! consider what shes suggesting and think what about the arguments are weak or unjustified, or perhaps what aspects or things she has ignored or overlooked in forming a judgement. Just to let you know there isnt a "right" answer to this. It's not the case, no matter what people in this thread may think, that she is simply wrong, and her arguments unsubstantiated, just as the reverse would not be true, if someone were to express it also. TL;DR Have a think about it yourself, and try to come up with your own ideas on where her arguments may be correct, and where they may be weak you didnt read my post, i sayd i have nothing against gay people and i try to argue with her, and its common for her to bring up the gay matter and sometimes we get into fights over it. I usually find arguments against her, but she dosent listen to them, i am asking from here to get different perspective
Well, I honestly don't understand the parades myself. I don't think they're bad I just don't know why we do them. Seems like a lot of effort just to dress up in leather and ride in decorated vehicles >_<
But if she doesn't believe there's discrimination you should probably just ask her why she's so bent out of shape when we "advertise it." Straight people act like horny fools in public all the time.
But it's probably not worth your time. I've learned the hard way that a lot of people have their beliefs and when they say they want to "discuss" something they really just mean they want to stand on a soap box and scream. They aren't interested in re-evaluating or changing them.
And she may even make bigoted comments just to piss you off. There are some people who get really self righteous and then force confrontation...my family is like that.
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lol I didnt think you were homophobic at all ^^ just wanted to say come up with your own ideas, if only as the exercise is a good one. But as you've said you already do, then;
What arguments do you have to counter her positions?
On what basis does she dismiss them?
And if she literally ignores them like you suggest, why bother looking for alternative arguments if she wont even bother to engage with the ones you already provide?
+ Show Spoiler +
Also because arguing is fun here are some like basic ways you could argue it.
1. most gay people are not so out there with their sexuality or feel the need to be too open with it. When there are those who do however they stand out far more than a straight person expressing their sexuality with the same fevor, due to social stigma, prejudice and other factors.
2. On parades, well one why shouldn't they? It takes socially invasive displays (im not sure they could even be described as such, but I guess to some they might be) in order to attempt to address issues in society such as homophobia and acceptance. Now im not saying this is what is going on, in all honestly I expect alot of it might simply be considered a fun way for gay people to meet up and have some fun openly with likeminded people, and publically for a change without the stigma that can often be had when gay people do not hide their sexuality.
3. The argument "fat people dont have parades...." or other such things, doesnt really hold. Is she saying these kind of displays are fine as long as every single minority group that can be concieved of has one? Or saying that none of them should? Or simply taking the chance to criticise a minority on the basis that not every minority has the same thing? If it is the latter than ask yourself this.
In the civil rights times, would it be a strong argument, against black people protesting on the busses, to say "well women are opressed in society and they dont feel the need to act like this" Would such a criticism be justified?
Or even to remove the "fighting for rights", or other such aspects from it for a moment and take it in its simplest form, would it be a strong argument, to a group of children all singing loudly and skipping down the street to criticise them by saying, "why do they act like this ... there are loads of other children who dont feel the need to act in this way.."
tbh this is the kind of thing that goes on and on.... Unless but unless your mum has a clear and concise reason for why gay people should not be allowed to, or should not wish to act in this way, for both sides of the argument. Then it seems to be a means to criticise a group she is not comfortable with, on rather flimsy notions.
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I don't want to hurt anybody but I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread.
I mean gays are normal people too, like me or anybody else. Why do we still have this thread like they are a special case or something?
I must say even though I'm straight I find this very offending.
And I still apologize If I hurt anybody, not my intention.
User was warned for this post
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On December 19 2011 12:04 Invoker wrote:
I don't want to hurt anybody but I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread.
I mean gays are normal people too, like me or anybody else. Why do we still have this thread like they are a special case or something?
I must say even though I'm straight I find this very offending.
And I still apologize If I hurt anybody, not my intention.
reading threads is a skill used less and less these days
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On December 19 2011 12:04 Invoker wrote:
I don't want to hurt anybody but I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread.
I mean gays are normal people too, like me or anybody else. Why do we still have this thread like they are a special case or something?
I must say even though I'm straight I find this very offending.
And I still apologize If I hurt anybody, not my intention.
Oh god sometimes I despair of humanity.
Actually I'll bite. Invoker, if someone created a Teamliquid Turkey thread. A place for Turkish people to chat, talk about the turkish starcraft scene or Turkey in general, make friends, possibly organise events, and perhaps if anyone wanted to come in and know more about Turkey chat about that.
Would you feel very offended?
If someone, came in to such a thread, and wrote this post
"I don't want to hurt anybody but I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread.
I mean arnt Turks normal people too, like me or anybody else. Why do we still have this thread like thay are a special case or something?
I must say even though I'm not Turkish I find this very offensive.
And I still apologise if i hurt anybody, not my intention"
Would you think they were slightly stupid to make those points or be offended simply by a Turkish thread?
User was warned for this post
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Don't acknowledge the trolls If they can't be bothered to read the first post in the thread then the mods will clean them out.
On a happier note, I've noticed we have a ton of master level gay players. We should totally have a league/team.
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On December 19 2011 10:57 Axero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 07:34 GDR wrote:On December 19 2011 06:02 jarrydesque wrote:On December 19 2011 03:01 Axero wrote:On December 18 2011 17:19 jarrydesque wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway - Side note - Is anyone playing Star Wars - The Old Republic? Got my hands on it today and installing as we speak. I'm interested to see how Bioware has done with a MMO. What server are you playing on? I'm grabbing the game tomorrow. Looks amazing from what I've seen my friend play so far. There is a server called Frost *something*. Frost claw or Frost Talon - we'll be on that server - joining a bunch of friends I used to play wow with. Twilight I would totally just turn Edward to ash, slap Bella... and Jacob could come home with me.. for sho. I spent the whole day in the pool - we had such a lovely lunch and LOTS of wine... I'm feeling quite sunburnt and hung over right now . Oh, Jacob. Why can't you be a good actor? So sexy. I'm buying SW:TOR, but I imagine all of you are on a EU server. I have no problem playing on one, but I'm not sure if I buy a copy in the US if I can play on EU servers. If they set it up like Blizzard does. . I looked through the FAQs and it turns out US clients can access EU servers, so no problem there. And speaking of Lautner, his acting was so awkward in that newer movie he starred in. I can't remember the name of it, but it had Sigourney Weaver in it also.
That is cool! Definitely should get something going.
And I think you're thinking of Abduction. That was the last commercial I saw for one of his movies, and I don't think hes done many.
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On December 19 2011 12:18 Klondikebar wrote:Don't acknowledge the trolls If they can't be bothered to read the first post in the thread then the mods will clean them out. On a happier note, I've noticed we have a ton of master level gay players. We should totally have a league/team.
Can we name it Rainbows and Unicorns?
Edit-- Yeah it was Abduction. Wasted money to go see it in the theatre. -_-
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On December 19 2011 12:38 Axero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 12:18 Klondikebar wrote:Don't acknowledge the trolls If they can't be bothered to read the first post in the thread then the mods will clean them out. On a happier note, I've noticed we have a ton of master level gay players. We should totally have a league/team. Can we name it Rainbows and Unicorns?
Ugh, we want to be gay not Elton John's groupies
I like Legion Heart for a team name.
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@Roe, It's almost 200 pages long. How am I supposed to read all of it?
@XeliN, Is it really the same though?
I'm not saying that you shouldn't talk about gays or have a meeting. Of course, you should. It's natural.
It's just when I see the title of this thread on the left menubar, yeah, I feel offended. I can't describe it. But I do.
I don't have anything against gay people. I have gay friends. It's not that I don't want you guys to have a thread.
I just can't describe it much, my english is not that good.
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On December 19 2011 12:40 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 12:38 Axero wrote:On December 19 2011 12:18 Klondikebar wrote:Don't acknowledge the trolls If they can't be bothered to read the first post in the thread then the mods will clean them out. On a happier note, I've noticed we have a ton of master level gay players. We should totally have a league/team. Can we name it Rainbows and Unicorns? Ugh, we want to be gay not Elton John's groupies I like Legion Heart for a team name.
Team Cosmopolitan.
That is the gayest drink I can think of, and since it is a liquid we're like a really super-gay 'Team Liquid'.
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Osaka27149 Posts
Don't feed the trolls. Fuck, how many times does it have to be said.
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On December 19 2011 12:49 Invoker wrote:
@Roe, It's almost 200 pages long. How am I supposed to read all
It makes for a good read inbetween games.
How many people here are fans of The Walking Dead series?
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EPT
