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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On May 26 2013 12:42 SXGCoil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 12:31 SKC wrote:
When your question is, and I quote, "why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?", that's just the correct answer. Because they are around your own skill level. No, more like, "they're around your number of wins" And since the only way for mm to determine skill is by wins, this results in a cycle where you can improve but continue to get the same level of skill teammates.
.. What?
A player whos only played Dota 2 for 25 games, but has been playing WC3 dota for years
a player who started dota a few months ago, but has 400 games
whos better.
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United States44248 Posts
On May 26 2013 12:42 SXGCoil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 12:31 SKC wrote:
When your question is, and I quote, "why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?", that's just the correct answer. Because they are around your own skill level. No, more like, "they're around your number of wins" And since the only way for mm to determine skill is by wins, this results in a cycle where you can improve but continue to get the same level of skill teammates.
I don't think you understand how it works. Say you win your first 20 games because you're better than your teammates and the opponents and solo carry the game. The AMM is trying to find your level and if you keep winning then it needs to establish an upper bound so it keeps giving you a higher and higher AMM rating until it eventually finds someone you'll lose to. That gives it a start point, from there it'll adjust you as it narrows you down until it eventually matches you up with opponents and teammates about your level giving you more or less a 50% winrate. The first 20 games soon become statistically insignificant but that doesn't mean the AMM rating has gone back down.
Recently I've been winning about 50% but I have way more wins than losses because I was previously playing awfully, had a eureka moment where I suddenly leapt forwards and got a load of wins for a week and ended up matched with better players. The number of wins and the winrate really has very little relevance to your AMM.
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On May 26 2013 12:47 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 12:42 SXGCoil wrote:On May 26 2013 12:31 SKC wrote:
When your question is, and I quote, "why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?", that's just the correct answer. Because they are around your own skill level. No, more like, "they're around your number of wins" And since the only way for mm to determine skill is by wins, this results in a cycle where you can improve but continue to get the same level of skill teammates. .. What? A player whos only played Dota 2 for 25 games, but has been playing WC3 dota for years a player who started dota a few months ago, but has 400 games whos better.
Who knows. There is absolutelly no way to answer that question with any reasonable amount of certainty.
I have friends that have been playing for 5+ years and are terrible and I know people with "only" hundreds of games and are pretty decent. If you think you can't play for years and still be bad, I'm not sure where you even played Dota 1. Number of games is useless.
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On May 26 2013 12:52 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 12:47 Shaella wrote:On May 26 2013 12:42 SXGCoil wrote:On May 26 2013 12:31 SKC wrote:
When your question is, and I quote, "why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?", that's just the correct answer. Because they are around your own skill level. No, more like, "they're around your number of wins" And since the only way for mm to determine skill is by wins, this results in a cycle where you can improve but continue to get the same level of skill teammates. .. What? A player whos only played Dota 2 for 25 games, but has been playing WC3 dota for years a player who started dota a few months ago, but has 400 games whos better. Who knows. There is absolutelly no way to answer that question with any reasonable amount of certainty. I have friends that have been playing for 5+ years and are terrible and I know people with "only" hundreds of games and are pretty decent. If you think you can't play for years and still be bad, I'm not sure where you even played Dota 1. Number of games is useless.
Exactly my point
# of games played means nothing, its such an arbitrary measurement.
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United States44248 Posts
Number of games relates to how accurately the AMM will reflect your skill level unless there has been a sudden change lately. If you've played a lot it'll have you narrowed down so you probably deserve your teammates.
On the QQ note, just played a game with a pair of gentlemen called anal whore and niggers die. They raged a lot then did a 4 minute abandon for no reason. Can judge a lot from a name.
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On May 26 2013 14:19 KwarK wrote:
Number of games relates to how accurately the AMM will reflect your skill level unless there has been a sudden change lately. If you've played a lot it'll have you narrowed down so you probably deserve your teammates.
Except your teammate's MMRs may be much less stable than yours, so you may actually not deserve them at all. Or the game may have been forced to match players with a large skill disparity because of a long queue.
If you find a match within 3 minutes and everyone concerned has a high number of wins, then, provided nobody has recently been on a streak, you might deserve your teammates. That's about all you can say.
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Someone hides Zeus' items in the treeline of our base.
Our NS with Aghs vision helps him find them.
Zeus gets super mad.
Up until that point nobody has said a word, nothing that would indicate a feud between someone on our team and Zeus.
Nobody says anything after that either, except for Zeus asking in Russian if anyone else is Ruskie.His CW friend helps with the translation later.
Zeus feeds a rapier.
Tells the enemy team when we are roshing
Feeds himself and the courier repeatedly to Kunkka, who also gets a Rapier.
.....
we still won, but fuck me if I'm not reporting him from both of my accounts tomorrow
oh,and I'im pretty sure it was his stupid friend Clockwerk that hid his items, gonna have to watch the replay for that...
thank you for the mute system Valve, I sure love the fact I wasnt able to abuse him verbally for roughly the 30 minutes we had to prolong the game for.
edit- it was the NS that dropped his items.
cis dota best dota, this is all I have to fucking say
I'm reporting both of those shitheads
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On May 26 2013 11:45 SXGCoil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 10:29 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 25 2013 15:53 SKYFISH_ wrote:
in the first game of the day the enemy team gets a Naix to counter Pudge mid - the definition of being a scumbag player.
here are the more interesting facts though - our supports flamed the shit outta Pudge.
furthermore they commended Naix for playing good?!
this is the type of clueless idiots the MM is pairing me with.
I WONDER HOW NAIX GOT SO FED MID?! WTF PUDGE
gee I wonder how Pudge got raped mid too, how is this possible? Pudge mid is so stronk and scawy!
fucking morons.....
the fact that they were surprised how Naix won the mid convincingly shows just how little game knowledge those people have.....why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?
Because you're probably not nearly as good as you think you are. Edit: Relevant: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/960 I always REALLY hate this argument. It's overly hostile and implies that ANYONE that gets a tard on their team is terrible. Maybe for once someone could actually qq in this thread without someone like you coming in and shitting all over him for qq'ing.
It holds alot of truth though
but honestly, people tend to forget that people might just be having a shitty game when going "ZOMG MAH MMR" and othertimes you just get matched with people who's riddicolously worse than the other 9 players on the field, it happend to me recently and I was literally thinking "is this guy for real? Is he like borrowing his friends account or some shit cus this guy looks like someone who didn't play many games of dota 2"
here's the match for reference http://dotabuff.com/matches/202007368
That qop confused the hell out of me :<
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Not so much about my team or even dota really but I made myself rage while waiting on queue to pop.
I was prepping a line of coke on my mousepad when the queue went off, and it surprised me and in my rush to accept the queue I dragged my mouse and sleeve all through the line and got that shit everywhere :/
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On May 26 2013 10:29 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 15:53 SKYFISH_ wrote:
in the first game of the day the enemy team gets a Naix to counter Pudge mid - the definition of being a scumbag player.
here are the more interesting facts though - our supports flamed the shit outta Pudge.
furthermore they commended Naix for playing good?!
this is the type of clueless idiots the MM is pairing me with.
I WONDER HOW NAIX GOT SO FED MID?! WTF PUDGE
gee I wonder how Pudge got raped mid too, how is this possible? Pudge mid is so stronk and scawy!
fucking morons.....
the fact that they were surprised how Naix won the mid convincingly shows just how little game knowledge those people have.....why the hell am I being put in the same team as them again?
Because you're probably not nearly as good as you think you are. Edit: Relevant: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/960
come on man, this is fundamental stuff we're talking about here.
BOTH of the supports flamed our Pudge for ''losing'' mid
both were super surprised how Naix got ''fed'' mid
I can understand how people fuck up lane pulls, item builds, heck even skill builds...but not knowing how Naix's passive works, considering he is like top 5 in popularity in public games?
btw link is broken 
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PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched".
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On May 26 2013 18:00 Fuzzmosis wrote:
PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched".
Valve has actually found that the best player in the game has a more significant impact than the worst player in the game.
Due to this the matchmaking system actually inflates the value of the highest ranked players, to prevent stacks with high a high variance in skill from being superior to an even stack, even if they have the same average rating.
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On May 26 2013 18:13 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:00 Fuzzmosis wrote:
PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched". Valve has actually found that the best player in the game has a more significant impact than the worst player in the game. Due to this the matchmaking system actually inflates the value of the highest ranked players, to prevent stacks with high a high variance in skill from being superior to an even stack, even if they have the same average rating.
Doesn't that depend though what role the best player in the game plays? If he isn't playing the mid or carry(a high impact hero so to say) it doesn't seem as relevant(this is in pubs, all roles matter of course in real games).
I know this is nitpicking but whenever I play with stacks worse than me, I have to go carry or something to stand a chance(and i usually suck/hate playing carries).
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On May 26 2013 18:13 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:00 Fuzzmosis wrote:
PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched". Valve has actually found that the best player in the game has a more significant impact than the worst player in the game. Due to this the matchmaking system actually inflates the value of the highest ranked players, to prevent stacks with high a high variance in skill from being superior to an even stack, even if they have the same average rating.
This must be why I feel so useless when I queue with my 2 higher skill friends. I play support, get no items, and feed like a mofo.
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On May 26 2013 19:36 Daaktard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:13 Alur wrote:On May 26 2013 18:00 Fuzzmosis wrote:
PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched". Valve has actually found that the best player in the game has a more significant impact than the worst player in the game. Due to this the matchmaking system actually inflates the value of the highest ranked players, to prevent stacks with high a high variance in skill from being superior to an even stack, even if they have the same average rating. Doesn't that depend though what role the best player in the game plays? If he isn't playing the mid or carry(a high impact hero so to say) it doesn't seem as relevant(this is in pubs, all roles matter of course in real games). I know this is nitpicking but whenever I play with stacks worse than me, I have to go carry or something to stand a chance(and i usually suck/hate playing carries).
Yeah it does, but the system can't adjust itself for that since it doesn't know what the "best player" is going to pick.
If you're stacking with friends who are significantly worse then you're going to have to pick a high-impact hero or just die. I used to have to do that with someone I stacked with too.
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Playing with friends is such a problem. I have a very close friend I play a lot of dota with. He's not that bad, in fact sometimes he has outright epic play. But other times he plays worse than my mother who still have yet to touch the game. His gamesense is so lacking! Makes me so infuriated sometimes. And because he's my friend, and he takes any criticism very hard, its difficult to say something to him as well.
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On May 26 2013 20:20 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 19:36 Daaktard wrote:On May 26 2013 18:13 Alur wrote:On May 26 2013 18:00 Fuzzmosis wrote:
PLay with friends. We're all bad. Mechanically, I'm quite good, but my game sense is still off. 4 man stack, and we get a Rubick who auto attacks.
We're so bad our picks are pretty random, and people I play with insist on playing in the jungle, so Rubick even gets the safelane, proceeds to feed. Honestly, we all played bad, but this was a "He's either drunk, stoned, or downs" level of play for him. But it happens.
The problem is, the opponents are a 5 stack, combined experience well over 5 times greater, the 2 that aren't experienced are likely smurfs, and it's 99% likely Meepo was using a macro to use a blink+auto poof combination. I have no idea if they are equal in skill to us, but once they got ahead, there was no commng back. Not sure if this lends credence to the theory that the team with the worst player (0-14 Rubick) will always lose, or the matchmaking is just like "Fuck it, DGAF, hope they have fun being thoroughly outmatched". Valve has actually found that the best player in the game has a more significant impact than the worst player in the game. Due to this the matchmaking system actually inflates the value of the highest ranked players, to prevent stacks with high a high variance in skill from being superior to an even stack, even if they have the same average rating. Doesn't that depend though what role the best player in the game plays? If he isn't playing the mid or carry(a high impact hero so to say) it doesn't seem as relevant(this is in pubs, all roles matter of course in real games). I know this is nitpicking but whenever I play with stacks worse than me, I have to go carry or something to stand a chance(and i usually suck/hate playing carries). Yeah it does, but the system can't adjust itself for that since it doesn't know what the "best player" is going to pick. If you're stacking with friends who are significantly worse then you're going to have to pick a high-impact hero or just die. I used to have to do that with someone I stacked with too.
Mmm... it makes me appreciate the fact that I have 5 or so friends that are about as good as me and we all like different roles. The fact that we can play as 5 every other evening or so is really nice too.
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K no more AP. Too much try hards.
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man can you qq about winning games?
went tinker, bought tango 3branch for fast bottle. 3 teammates still in fountain, i asked if one could buy courier "i'd do it but fast bottle" (plus i'm already standing at tower, if i'd actually had the time to go back and still block creeps i probably would have). No courier.
Clockwerk returns to fountain at one point, buys wards, no courier.
14mins in, still no courier. I end up dying stupidly, so I buy it and upgrade it at about 17mins.
What get's me is that my team was actually decent! All of them seemed to know the heroes they were playing, we stomped over a randomed PL and a picked kotl, but not one wanted to buy bird.
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EPT
