EPTDota 2 QQ thread - Page 512
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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. | ||
KwarK
United States44242 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
If you win 5 games in a row, it does not look at you and think 'oh we have to put this guy in his place, let's stick him in a team with 4 mouthbreathers', which is what a lot of people accuse it of doing. Instead, it looks at you and says 'hmm, this guy seems to be better than the people he's playing with so far, let's place him with better people.' If you are unlucky enough to get 4 mouthbreathers on your team, well, tough luck. They are at your rank whether you like it or not, and there's also an element of luck involved as to who happens to be queuing at the same time as you. Such is the way of playing a team game with random people. Another thing to think about: 20% of the time you will be the best player on your team and have to put up with people worse than you. 20% of the time you will be the absolute worst player and other people will have to put up with you. | ||
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10734
340 Posts
On May 14 2013 22:06 Firebolt145 wrote: Trilane is considered 'standard play' for many people. With random heroes I would still consider it easier to run a 1-1-3 with a defensive trilane with a shafted offlane hero than go 2-1-2, running the risk of losing both sidelanes. Of course it's better than 2/1/2 but it's not even close to standard at my level, only time I see trilanes in my games is when there's 3+ stack. Two friends want to lane together, but they're both melee, I ask if they're sure and I get a lecture about two kinds of people and and what I choose to be, and about bitching and shit, wtf, all I did was ask if they're sure. One of them, AM, had bfury, treads and vlads when we lost the game.... at 65 min........... | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On May 15 2013 02:07 Firebolt145 wrote: The fundamental difference I'm trying to bring to light is that matchmaking does not aim for everyone to have a 50% winrate, but that a 50% winrate is simply the ideal result of what it tries to do. If you win 5 games in a row, it does not look at you and think 'oh we have to put this guy in his place, let's stick him in a team with 4 mouthbreathers', which is what a lot of people accuse it of doing. Instead, it looks at you and says 'hmm, this guy seems to be better than the people he's playing with so far, let's place him with better people.' If you are unlucky enough to get 4 mouthbreathers on your team, well, tough luck. They are at your rank whether you like it or not, and there's also an element of luck involved as to who happens to be queuing at the same time as you. Such is the way of playing a team game with random people. Another thing to think about: 20% of the time you will be the best player on your team and have to put up with people worse than you. 20% of the time you will be the absolute worst player and other people will have to put up with you. Oh my god a person who actually understands matchmaking My head is exploding | ||
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
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MentalGNT
Denmark1264 Posts
And I had an earthshaker on my team. | ||
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Mandini
United States1717 Posts
On May 15 2013 06:27 Shaella wrote: Oh my god a person who actually understands matchmaking My head is exploding A lot of us understand it, we just realized that people can't understand the difference between MM matching you in a game where you have as close to a 50% chance to win as determined by the MMR of the teams and MM putting you with feeders until you lose enough games to be at 50%. Firebolt has less than 50% win rate, I have over 53% win rate. Doesn't mean I am better than him, just means that I am either not at the correct MMR yet or I play with people like Kwark enough to make my MMR too uncertain to always get matches based on my true skill. | ||
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Souone
Brazil470 Posts
On May 15 2013 02:07 Firebolt145 wrote: The fundamental difference I'm trying to bring to light is that matchmaking does not aim for everyone to have a 50% winrate, but that a 50% winrate is simply the ideal result of what it tries to do. If you win 5 games in a row, it does not look at you and think 'oh we have to put this guy in his place, let's stick him in a team with 4 mouthbreathers', which is what a lot of people accuse it of doing. Instead, it looks at you and says 'hmm, this guy seems to be better than the people he's playing with so far, let's place him with better people.' If you are unlucky enough to get 4 mouthbreathers on your team, well, tough luck. They are at your rank whether you like it or not, and there's also an element of luck involved as to who happens to be queuing at the same time as you. Such is the way of playing a team game with random people. Another thing to think about: 20% of the time you will be the best player on your team and have to put up with people worse than you. 20% of the time you will be the absolute worst player and other people will have to put up with you. I think the game needs a larger population for good matchings. For me at least 90% of the games my "Search Range" is 50 to 75% full, I've never read any official source of how much that laxes the actual matchings, but I always assume the algorithm is forcing better and shittier players into games all the time to drop queue length. I guess I'm saying that it doesn't force loss/win streaks but it's really far from being good at this point. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
1) people who can't get over themselves: game starts, we run a 2/1/2, I'm offlane with lich and realize we don't have a shot in the dark. so I roam to bot, force their mid back to fountain and start stacking/pulling after getting our carry a kill. my thinking is: our carry will outpush theirs (don't remember who but ours was luna) and lich really only needs levels, he can safely lane v these guys while denying creeps/punishing dives with his ult. no he just starts feeding madly then bitches at me and the friend I queued up with. meanwhile we're getting luna absolute free farm + kills bot, our mid is winning, it's really ok. but the lich just verbally abuses me and my friend all game until it got to the point I'd just mute him. later on I unmuted because we needed the communication but he continues bitching, calling us "retarded" and blaming everything on us even when he gets picked off to stupid positioning. meanwhile I can't talk back over mic because dota needs it plugged in before I start up the game or it won't work. no wards, no dust, no anything, I'm covering it all as centaur, we end up winning the game handily. I've learned that some people will just try to piss you off because they can, and that letting them do that is stupid. don't give them that power. usually I just neutrally coach people and call out mistakes (mine included) and this takes the ego out of everyone, and we mesh as a team/start playing together and its awesome. despite proof to the contrary, this guy kept shitting on me and my friend because he had a bad game. this guy REALLY got under my skin. his dota name was Troy. At the end of the game I asked the other teammates to report him and they responded "yeah he was pretty terrible." Troy, you're a douchetacular piece of shit. The game isn't about you, we win or lose as a team. play with the team and if somebody messes up, help them get better. don't verbally assault them. Get your head out of that shitty overused anus of yours and stop playing dota, and go fucking fix whatever it is in your life that's causing you to be such a horrible person. I'm of the opinion that there's a small percentage of people not worth dealing with, and you're the case study. 2) Axe players who don't get blink. In my pub opinion, axe is a pretty terrible hero beyond early/mid game unless he snowballs. Eventually it gets to the point where he's good for his quelling blade on tanks/blinking in and calling so the rest of the team can follow. Most of the axe players I play with soak up absorbant amounts of farm, don't take advantage of their early game strength, and don't get blink. They're basically a dead weight 5th slot that's slightly harder to kill than the rest of us because they don't help initiation at all, don't deal any damage, and aren't particularly useful for anything else because they can't position worth a damn when they need to. | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On May 15 2013 08:00 Mandini wrote: A lot of us understand it, we just realized that people can't understand the difference between MM matching you in a game where you have as close to a 50% chance to win as determined by the MMR of the teams and MM putting you with feeders until you lose enough games to be at 50%. Firebolt has less than 50% win rate, I have over 53% win rate. Doesn't mean I am better than him, just means that I am either not at the correct MMR yet or I play with people like Kwark enough to make my MMR too uncertain to always get matches based on my true skill. Where's the proof of it forcing the 50%. Every game you have a very small window into a player's performance, and player performance varies WILDLY, based on hero, based on who they lane again, based on their mental state (focused/distracted) The person who feeds in one game, may carry and absolutely obliterate in the next, and is likely to be at the same MMR rating as you source: MYSELF, my last two games. 3/10/5 as slark (ouch), then a 12/2/5 game was visage. | ||
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Mandini
United States1717 Posts
On May 15 2013 08:25 Shaella wrote: Where's the proof of it forcing the 50%. Every game you have a very small window into a player's performance, and player performance varies WILDLY, based on hero, based on who they lane again, based on their mental state (focused/distracted) The person who feeds in one game, may carry and absolutely obliterate in the next, and is likely to be at the same MMR rating as you source: MYSELF, my last two games. 3/10/5 as slark (ouch), then a 12/2/5 game was visage. I never said it forced a 50% win rate, I said the MM does as best as it can to make sure that each game has as close to a 50% chance of either team winning as it can based on the MMR of the team, which I went on to say can vary quite a bit from both skill at the game as a whole as well as skill with an individual hero. Not sure how you got that I was disagreeing with you, well actually firebolt because your post didn't really say anything. | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
LOL NOPE All pick time (could have sworn I had that turned off, but w/e), I random, as do 3 other team members. After the final pick we have Drow (me) Pudge Titan Venge Apparition Huh! A reasonable lineup! Who'd a thunk it! Venge and AA then used the remaining time to discuss who was buying courier and wards. Well I'll be! It's like they're competent or something! Lane time! I go safelane, venge wants to join. Sounds good, I have random gold, so I'll grab early boots and ice arrows, +magic missle and that's ez first blood. jk, wraith band and aura first, gotta pack dem deeps  Well, we have a solo slark, I should be piling the farm at least Had you fooled! Not only would he autoattack, but he did in in random bursts, so I couldn't even try to gauge how to last hit with a super creep. After about a minute of explaining concepts of this game meant to be apparent within an hour of play time, he resigns to only attacking creeps to land the last hit. And of course he has the faster attack animation and higher damage, so I couldn't do anything. After another bout of holding the mic button telling him to stop killing all their creeps, he concludes "fine I wont deny anymore" and proceeds to single-stack pull while slark and tide dive me. Repeatedly. 9 minutes in, I've farmed a single band of elvenskin, he continues to steal farm between instances of standing outside of exp range doing f*ck all, responding to the team's complaints with "so what" "i'm not allowed to farm?" "i'm not allowed to get items?" Slark and tide then proceed to walk right past both venge and the creep wave (halfway into the safelane curve) to tower dive me while she maintains her autoattacking, only taking breaks to call me a noob (with less than 100 games played) Dunning can go suck off Kruger, there is no excuse why out of over 100,000 people online, I have to be stuck with the level of stupid this consistently other than that the losses caused by them leads the system to bury their afflicted teammate into levels of "the trench" so deep the flames of hell itself creep up to warm the darkness. | ||
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kuruptt
Canada168 Posts
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
Second game - Well, I'm tired of getting matched against teams. Let's play some solo queue right? 10 minutes later, no game found. Cancel search. Third game - Don't have time to wait around for a solo game. Just queue normally. Should be quick right? Nope. People refuse game - return to queue. Rinse, repeat. Finally get into a game. Disconnect at loading screen. 15 minutes later, finally get into a game. Yay! Early game goes well, so I think I can rush a big item (after treads of course). This was admittedly probably a bad decision, and after the mid-game goes south for my team, I'm left with a half-complete item. Despite this, I've got equal most kills and on par with deaths and levels with the rest of my team. Cue abuse from one of my team mates, blaming me for the loss, noob, etc. you know the drill. Reported him, but I doubt he'll get a ban. So that was my night. 2+ hours spent and no fun was had. Uninstalled. I feel like my games are getting worse and worse wrt to bad attitude players. Switch to LoL maybe? I mean it has a bad rep for behaviour, but at least they have a 'code' that's more than just 'communication abuse' or 'feeding'. Plus it might be easier to cope with the abusive players if I can see them getting their comeuppance in the tribunal. GG no re. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On May 14 2013 22:37 Animzor wrote: Never played dota1. What I'm saying is, MM sucks because it forces 50% win rate, which makes me want to quit playing 50% of the time, what is the point of that? and the report system makes people feel like they are entitled to REVENGE, which is never a good thing. I've yet to play someone else aside from Venge and I have a 60%+ win rate. :D So I finally get to log in to steam and Dota 2 updates, I look up a game in SEA before the qualifiers, I get into one and I have less than a hundred ms ping with 0% packet loss. Didn't matter, played a fucking slideshow. Also, my longest losing streak doubled to four. ~_~ I decided to go practice invoker instead and damn, whenever those bots get that BKB in end game, it's hella difficult. | ||
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lazyitachi
1043 Posts
The noob doom was farming in nc/ feeding the whole game so 4v6 effectively while the other team was not even good. Won the game... now comm banned.. third time = 1 week silence.. lololol.. Wonder how noobs enjoy getting carried to victory. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
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DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
anyway, a guy randoms weaver and another randoms a wind, nice, i pick SM because it was long ago since i played him, back in dota 1 days and i did not want to try much. All the sudden, TRYHARD ALERT, TRYHARD ALERT. They instalock Pugna and Nyx, and even say "ez", come on....... then they pick Beastmaster, venge and Troll, WHAT THE HELL? COME ON... THATS LIKE, yeah, we're gonna crush you man, you got DRAFTED!. as you would expect, they just stomped the game, from the beginning, except one little moment when i won midlane against the nyx getting 1st blood on him and having a 30 seconds smile (that was the only thing nice in the entire game). BM VS TROLL racked up the towers like NP NP and pugna and nyx just made my life miserable. Why do some people need to win so badly? cant the enjoy the game? P.S: yeah, im a bit sad, dont worry, shitt happens. | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On May 15 2013 10:41 kuruptt wrote: So why is MM in this game the worst out of all the MOBA games out there? I just got out of the game with a bloodseeker taking mid and hardly ganking. Lost the game in 20 minutes because he bought a blademail, what the fuck? Why would you ever buy blademail as first item over FORCE staff? Not to mention the other team had a fucking clockwerk and enigma. Why is this player even in my team? You know the best part is? This is played at the very high skill level. I mean I would THINK people would know how to play the game at this skill level but nope. Bloodseeker that gets Blademail first is legit | ||
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On May 15 2013 07:10 valheru wrote: Game had promise. It had potential, I im 4-1 with SkillMagi, that 2 4xfireblast in a row ? totally aimed for that | ||
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