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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
Wondering if anyone could help out with a build for me since I'm going to be giving this computer to my parents in a few months after graduating from college, minus pornography of course. I do know that I will be getting two 570GTX cards, or maybe the ATi equivalent. I do know I want an i7 processor, but can't decide on the specifics. I do know I need a BR/DVD/CD player and burner. I do know I will probably go 3 monitor setup eventually. I won't be wanting SSD's. Other than that I'm unsure about the motherboard, case, how much RAM I should get (although 12GB seems fine since RAM is cheap anyway), etc.
What is your budget?
1750, maybe a bit more. Ideally less, but I've set aside money for this so might as well do it right.
What is your resolution?
1680x1050 for now. Looking to up it much higher in about 6 months.
What are you using it for?
Gaming, multimedia, work, internets, power-point development, etc. Pretty much everything serious that a laptop can't do properly.
What is your upgrade cycle?
3-4 years.
When do you plan on building it?
Two months.
Do you plan on overclocking?
Possibly, meaning most likely.
Do you need an Operating System?
Will need a copy of Windows 7.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
See above.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Most likely newegg, unless there's a site out there that's better and cheaper.
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There's a difference, but maybe not a $60 difference? Both are fairly priced. It's hard to say what kind of difference in fps and graphics settings are worth $60. Actually, I'd just get a HD 6850 (only takes a single 6-pin power plug, but around the same performance as a GTX 460) and an Earthwatts Green 380D instead.
The biggest thing to point out is that ECS is a fairly low-tier motherboard brand. Given the price, I'd expect the components to be of low quality, but that's just a guess.
What's the Arctic Silver 5 for? If you're primarily looking for lower CPU temperatures, the stock cooler is just fine when not overclocking, particularly when you consider that you're turning off the integrated GPU (which provides an additional load the stock cooler is supposed to be able to handle). Aftermarket thermal compound tends to have a fairly small effect on cooling compared to the pre-applied stock solution. At around $10-15, you can even get an aftermarket cooler that's actually somewhat better than the stock one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103074
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Oh, I thought I had to get the thermal compound stuff in order to install the processor.
This is the first time I am building a computer.
The 460 and this PSU is about the same price as a 6850 and that PSU - less than 20 dollars difference and I kind of prefer nVidia, though I will admit that is just a bias from familiarity.
I will have to look into that motherboard, do some more googling.
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Bahl - you really need to specifiy your resolution and desired quality settings here. Other question that would be good to understand - are you willing to scale back AA/AF, and quality in general, for the sake of performance? That is part of what that $60 pays for ($189 vs. $249).
I just checked on Newegg, the cheapest 460 1GB, before rebate, is the 850Mhz model (which is basically FTW speeds). Anandtech's 6870 review includes a 460 1GB FTW (which is basically at that overclock) so you might want to read that. Regarding the 560Ti - overclocked it doesn't quite match a 570, but it gets close. And the 570 is just under the old 480.
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I'm not a huge stickler for things like super high resolution and AA/AF. I'm more concerned with if I will get an extra 6 months or whatever before I need to upgrade. Does the 560 have some newer features that would make it last longer before an upgrade was needed or is it just the same tech as the 460 but faster?
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On March 27 2011 08:03 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
I'm not a huge stickler for things like super high resolution and AA/AF. I'm more concerned with if I will get an extra 6 months or whatever before I need to upgrade. Does the 560 have some newer features that would make it last longer before an upgrade was needed or is it just the same tech as the 460 but faster?
It's effectively a more power efficient revision of the GTX 470. It'd be an upgrade but not much of one
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5930 Posts
What is "super high resolution". Is that 1920x1080 or is that 2560x1400?
Anyway, I think anything like the 560 is wasted on any resolution lower than 1920x1080. Its impossible to determine whether or not you can get "6 months" more out of that video card, no one is Nostradamus and no one knows your exact tolerances.
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Aw, damn. Those NCIX super specials ran out and now a couple of the components got way more expensive. Now I'll have to track down good deals on my own... 
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What is your budget?
I don't really have one. I need a computer that can do what I need it to and I'll pay what it costs, but ideally that's as little as possible. I would be fine building a super cheap computer that ran SC2 on low with good FPS (my laptop does not), but I want to stream/make vods so higher gfx becomes necessary.
What is your resolution?
1920x1200. I am open to buying a new monitor with a smaller resolution if necessary but I'm assuming it's probably cheaper just to get a nicer graphics card.
What are you using it for?
Need it for no other purpose than SC2 and it's eventual expansion packs. I want to be able to stream in HD (720p or thereabouts) and/or record vods and not have any issues (i have like 3.5MBPs up so connection isn't a problem) while running SC quality at whatever is pretty. I don't care so much about it being pretty for me while I'm playing and I'm assuming some of the crazier settings on Ultra are not necessary for streaming because it won't come through at the lower resolution/bitrate of a stream...
What is your upgrade cycle?
I don't even know what I'm going to eat tonight, can't plan that far ahead. I'd like to never upgrade if I didn't have to. I don't game on the computer other than SC and probably won't start anytime soon.
When do you plan on building it?
I would buy it right now instead of posting on the board if I knew what to buy.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No. Reliability & not being hassled is far more important to me than a little extra power.
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
No Fry's. I live in the US so I can get mail order from anything there, newegg etc. I also have an Amazon Prime account.
*Extra information
I'm guessing all motherboards come with onboard sound these days but I have a USB DAC/Headphone amp and only listen with headphones, so if it saves any money, I do not need sound.
I also have a monitor, as I mentioned above.
I have a couple external drives in an enclosure, which means I don't need to purchase a hard drive. The enclosure is loud now anyway and I only have it because I've been using a laptop, so I'll probably put the hard drives internally anyway. However, I may be interested in getting a small SSD for os, applications, depending on cost.
I share my computer room with another person & I like ambient noise to be quiet for headphones. Having something quiet is of interest to me.
I have built dozens of computers so it's not a problem to do it. That said, I'm also lazy and I have not done it in a few years, so I'd be open to buying something either put together or partially put together depending on the increase in cost. Also, I have absolutely *no* extra parts around (only computers here are laptops) which means I cannot troubleshoot anything if it doesn't work which gives an extra bonus to having stuff put together.
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Only thing about Fractal Design is, I got the R3 and there are some weird build quality issues. The packaging was really nice, nice styrofoam padding that fit the case so tight I had to struggle to get it out. However, I think that there's something messed up about their assembly process or something because there are a couple dents on the rear of the case and some of the screw holes for the side panels are kind of warped. On top of that, some of the Hard drive cases were bent out of shape. Not a big deal, since I just beat the dents back into shape, and there are 8 hard drive cases so I just used different ones, but this does leave me concerned about Fractal Design's build quality. Other than that, I completely agree with SkyR, other than the abovementioned issues the case seems awesome.
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skyR:
Thanks for the very extensive post.
Few questions on the ramifications of how I might choose to shave some money off of it (or at least understand better to what feature the extra money is going). Like I said there's no budget ceiling I have to hit but I do want to pay less if possible :-).
1) NewEgg stats say that motherboard has no onboard video, but it has DVI and Video out ?
2) What am I getting out of the i5? I was thinking the i3 might even be a little overkill for my demands. I've read in places the CPU demands for SC2 are light...
3) Is the GTX 560 necessary compared to say the 460 or a comparable (100-150$) radeon card? What's the practical difference going to be since the price is like double.
4) I see FractalDesign has a silent mid tower for ~40 less. Is that OK?
5) Is this a correct assessment of how much extra I'm paying for silence: $150 (maybe $110)for the case vs. $80 or so ($70 difference) + $35 for aftermarket fan ($35) + $110 for a power supply vs. $60 ($50), so about a $155 difference between louder vs. quieter? [this is probably worth it to me -- i'm curious if one of these options does significantly more in noise reduction than the others but that's probably something impossible to know without swapping them out so erring on the side of silence is probably better for mine & roomates sanity]
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CPU demands for SC2 are most certainly not light, and streaming is also reasonably CPU intensive.
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@mockturtle
All H61 and H67 chipset provides on-board video.
The i3 is a dual core with hyperthreading while the i5 is a physical quad core. The i7 adds in hyperthreading. You'll want at least a quad core for streaming and video encoding / editing.
The GTX 560 isn't necessary just for SC2. You'll be fine with the GTX 460 1GB (not the SE variant) or Radeon HD6850, both of which can be found for around $160-$200. However, I wouldn't recommend anything below these cards if you want to play on high/ultra at 1920x1200. I have a GTX 460 and play on high @ 2148x1152 with ~170 FPS at the start of the game and don't notice any slowdown until the very end game of 3v3 / 4v4 with thousands of units on screen.
The R3 is just a newer revision of the R2 so yes you can get the less expensive R2 if you wanted / needed to.
The case and fans would have the biggest impact on noise levels. The power supply probably has the lowest impact on noise levels as high quality power supplies are nearly inaudible since most if not all have load / temperature controlled fans. Only the Seasonic X and Corsair AX series of power supplies actually shuts off its fan during idle afaik.
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@ skyR and Myrmidon
Thanks for both of your help/guidance so far.
1) I don't know of any reason why I'd want a full size case and in fact smaller would probably be better. So I'm going to go with this option (Fractal R3 Mid Size) unless you guys say it's a stupid switch for some reason?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352002
2) If streaming does not put a strain on the video card, then dropping the cost on the videocard would be super. I'm not even sure I'd want to play on better than low, but for observation purposes pretty is nice so that's why I'd need a higher FPS at like medium or high. But the performance you described with the 460 seems like more than enough, so dropping that to either the radeon Myrmidon suggested or a GeForce 460 seems prudent.
3) Understood on the i5. Glad I asked.
4) I think I'm keen on going for all the super quiet perks. (the fractal case, the fancy power supply, the fan upgrade). Is the 650W right or should I be getting one with less power or is the 650W the right choice because of the 30$ off?
5) Re: OnBoard video. Isn't that kind of silly to get since I'm buying a graphics card? Is it just a BIOS or dip switch to deactivate it? Is there not a cheaper monitor that eschews that needless feature? Sorry if this is a stupid question... I'm kind of old and back when I paid attention to this sort of thing, onboard video was a big nono because it was a waste of a few bucks and occasionally led to compatibility problems.
6) Is there any reason at all to help decide between the 460 and Radeon?
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Case is fine. Streaming is processor intensive.
You could go for a lower wattage power supply as Myrmidon suggested. A single graphic card (excluding 6990 and gtx 590) solution will never need more than ~400W.Another alternative is the Antec Truepower New 650W @ $80. There's just a lot of good deals for 650w atm. $110 for a Seasonic X is a steal though imo since its silent, fully modular, and it'll last for a very long time to come.
Sandybridge (2nd Generation Core series, ex. core i3 2x00, core i5 2x00, etc) processors all have integrated graphics. You're not paying extra for it, it comes with the processor and it is automatically disabled when the PCI-E x16 slot is populated with a graphics card. If you don't want the ugly vga/dvi slots at the back of the i/o plate you'll need to actually pay extra for a P67 board (doesn't offer integrated graphics cards but offers overclocking, H67 cannot overclock).
The 6850 is newer, provides similar/better stock performance than the GTX 460, and is generally cheaper. So if you have no preferences on brand than go with the 6850.
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5930 Posts
1) Its a pretty good case for the price. Doesn't look like ass, flexible, and fairly quiet.
2) At medium or high, your issue is probably going to still be your CPU in massive battles. Those cards (560, 460, 6850) don't struggle at those settings and at those resolutions.
4) Since you don't plan on using dual GPU, I don't see the point of 650W. Get what Myrmidon suggested or something similar from I guess Antec.
5) You stick a separate GPU in (like GTX460), it switches the onboard video off.
6) GTX460 is basically the same as the HD6850...literally pick what you think looks cooler.
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EPT
