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On April 16 2009 07:39 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 07:24 XythOs wrote:On April 16 2009 06:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:8. + Show Spoiler +
Q: We have heard many times that the map editor is capable of almost anything, but does this hold true for melee as well? Will you be able to implement map related features, such as different types of terrain (slowing, damage over time, energy regenerating, etc.), portals, or bridges and such, for ladder/melee maps?
A: Yes, players will be able to create special areas on the map as mentioned, though players will probably have to create them using invisible objects with those properties rather than have those properties be tied with the actual visual texture itself.
. hmm I wonder if they actually meant, that it is possible on non-ums maps aswell. It seems that he just answered the generally possibility of such things. Maybe UMS and Melee will have no seperation at all?
They didn't in wc3 so obviously they wont in sc2.
The only reason it had any separation in sc1 is because it tracked stats for melee maps but not for UMS maps, otherwise there is no reason to.
On April 16 2009 08:28 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 07:10 LeperKahn wrote:Q: Is it possible to create maps which wrap around? So that the right edge leads back onto the left, creating a spherical space?
A: Yes, it is currently possible to create a map in which units can move from one side to the other, though there isn’t coding provided yet that would allow units to shoot from one side to the other. I think I'm going crazy. Looking at the way he phrased it, I think he just means you can make locations that stretch all the way down the sides of the map, and when units enter it they will appear on the other side of the map. You can prob do something just like it in SC1. Remember this is PR, not brutal honesty. They are probably phrasing a lot of things to make them sound more appealing than they actually are.
Have you played with the teleporters in wc3?
Basically they work like a pathing node and units paths automatically through them if going through it is the shortest distance, which makes them seem a ton more seamless than the clunky starcraft teleporters.
It could very well be that they improved this further again and now allow you to make areas bound together instead of having discrete points like wc3.
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I can see how one can fail a drop and be at a significant disadvantage in a few ways.....
Terran: Terran still get mines, though there is an harass window before nighthawks that one might simply have to camp at base if one goes a ground only build unless going for a timing push. Lack of Air to ground from the robo tech tree means mines can not be cleared outside of suicide units as is now, and that is simply too expensive against what is likely a low energy ability that can be spammed like hell. Besides, we know terrans don't really use snipe abilities (unless you are boxer) against drop tricks, but simply more turrets and more AA units which they still have. If the phase prism is slow (and it probably would be far slower than a speed shuttle), an patrolling vikings would eat it for lunch long before it is close to base and newly improved terran air and lack of corsair might mean they can actually go for air builds themselves as opposed to using them only for niche support and a starport would probably become a near mandatory buildings (for infantry-medivac, nighthawk detect/support, viking AA and banshee harass to force cannons which wouldn't be used against reaper due to mines)
Zerg: banelings is the zerg mine rise out of the ground and thats the end of that. In any case, zerg can just nydus back and not be at an disadvantage if the protoss tries to use phase prism tricks. A few loaded units plus one round of production is no match for entire army warping there instantly via nydus. Without uber imba tricks like cliffed tanks, cloaked units or insanely fast and damaging strike groups that also avoid all the info-lings/lords on the map, drop harass stuff like that just don't work. Protoss no longer having corsair means Zerg can always contest the air and transport builds are doomed when mutas comes around. The protoss would need to fight for air superiority with tooth and nail before they can have free regin of prism movement which is countered by nydus movement.
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Its detracting from positive and smoothe gameflow and forces too easily that you have to leave a chunk at home to deal with the warped in units or to build (at that point in the game) useless building/units to deal with it breaking your gameflow, builds, etc
Plus as a Zerg having to deal with observers, nighthawks, medivacs, phaseprisms, carriers (with even longer range!), warpprisms... just... t_t. The scourge is just a too essential unit in my opinion to counter these things.
As far as I'm concerned, nothing transports can do can beat a (SC1) mutalisk harassment and no transport build can beat a mutalisk stack.
In SC1, mutalisk harassments can and do keep terran players stuck in their base spamming missile turrets while waiting for a hard counter more often than not. Having to build a viking to beat prism harassment is no more flow breaking than having to build sci vessels to beat mutalisk harassments. Mutalisks can also be everywhere that is not the map edge, while phase prism and their ground units need space to deploy and would workn't against a good simcity with enough AA/small arms surrounding well cliffed seige tanks. Drop harass just don't work on maps where everywhere you drop ends up on a mine, reaper mine or concentrated seige blasts.
Since immortals don't have AA and stalkers are relatively bad against terran (can't dodge seige blasts and gets shot if in range to shoot marines and most of its cost is in blink), I fully expect protoss early-mid game armies to have little AA. Because of this, terran air units are actually quite safe. It might be entirely possible that in the future, it is terrans that drop the protoss as opposed to vice versa since colossus is no reaver and building a sizable stalker army to protect prisms from even a handful of vikings is too expensive, and protoss would rather tech speed-zeal templar instead of this one shot prism business since no uber reaver comes out of it. If the protoss do go for robotics tech first, then terran can go air to counter since air units counter ALL of the protoss robotics tech, and an army of banshees mixed with a few vikings would kill everything in the protoss army that is not a stalker. (while airmobile infantry kills the stalkers while laughing haha u aint got no storm/speedzeals and thats the end of that)..... the only way protosses can make the build works is to kill the marines with colossus and shoot the air with stalker, and with a unit combo like that, prisms aren't really needed since they all cliff walk. Only if the terran goes factory heavy while protoss goes robotics would the whole prism thing come into play....and being stuck with slowlots and no storm and no tank sniping reavers against biomech isn't exactly nice...having the prism probably just prevent the protoss getting rolled silly as 12 range tanks snipe the colossus (with the I can't transport dodge slow firing animation) while marines cleans everything else....
As for zerg having to deal with air units, without corsairs means Zerg can happily spam mutalisks (if they are anywhere near as strong as SC1) and just roll everything that is not protected by cheap/splash ground to air (thor/archon) and they wouldn't be at anywhere ground units aren't. Imagine corsair reaver without the corsair... or dropships against 2hat muta....that is just too funny. The alternative for the opposing races is to spam heavy air of their own, and it ends up like muta vs 2port wraith since no one have reliable air splash units (nighthawk missile can probably be dodged given its speed) only works if one wins the air battle decisively and still have left over money for stuff like that.
Without corsairs, I think protoss going robotics (phase prism) first is just asking to autolose via mutalisk against zerg. They would probably have to get templar tech and some archons or serious, serious mass of phoneix (we are talking about comparable to the zerg numbers, not 6 and call it a day) before prism tricks would work at all, and only against someone whose nydus network one manages to snipe before the entire zerg army rolls back.
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Netherlands19141 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:53 SWPIGWANG wrote:Show nested quote +Its detracting from positive and smoothe gameflow and forces too easily that you have to leave a chunk at home to deal with the warped in units or to build (at that point in the game) useless building/units to deal with it breaking your gameflow, builds, etc
Plus as a Zerg having to deal with observers, nighthawks, medivacs, phaseprisms, carriers (with even longer range!), warpprisms... just... t_t. The scourge is just a too essential unit in my opinion to counter these things. As far as I'm concerned, nothing transports can do can beat a (SC1) mutalisk harassment and no transport build can beat a mutalisk stack.
You should ask Chill about how it looks when one or two nydus worms pop up in your base (same tech as mutas) and someone unloads between 1 and 200 psi of zerg into your base.
Nydus worms rape mutastacks at WWI and blizzcon but they changed stuff about the way they are deployed/summoned/cast/created so can't really talk about that. But the concept of tier 2 unlimited transportation to any exit on the map was a bit sick :p.
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Calgary26003 Posts
It looks orgasmic, that's what.
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Netherlands19141 Posts
Plus you are aware that there is no muta stacking in SC2 and they suck guts in hell right -.-
edit: and archons are so bad it hurts, but theyll still be built cause they just look SO COOOOOOL.
Nullifiers rock though, so underused at events but so powerfull.
edit: plus its hylarious to see you theorycraft against people who have actually played a version of the game lol. You just don't take any actual gameflow into consideration but reason on army X vs army Y while thats never the case. I'm adressing what I find to be a fundamental gap in unittype availability.
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Netherlands19141 Posts
On April 18 2009 06:49 Chill wrote:
It looks orgasmic, that's what.
Damn straight :D. Esp on that spacemap where there was this little piece of the back of each main where there was a "smokescreen" from vents on the floor where your units could just pass through but it blocked line of sight for ground units. So you'd have your overlords puke down some creep, warp that nydusworm in and then flood his main from cover while just rallying all your hatches into the nydus warren loool.
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Netherlands19141 Posts
On April 18 2009 02:33 kakisama wrote:
sooo can cannons still move? .. its pretty ridged if it can ...
Nope, they transferred that ability to the zerg "static" defenses.
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On April 18 2009 06:52 Nyovne wrote:Damn straight :D. Esp on that spacemap where there was this little piece of the back of each main where there was a "smokescreen" from vents on the floor where your units could just pass through but it blocked line of sight for ground units. So you'd have your overlords puke down some creep, warp that nydusworm in and then flood his main from cover while just rallying all your hatches into the nydus warren loool.
Hehe yeah it was tons of fun doing that but people will get the hang of it really quickly and start placing a supply or a pylon there so they can see you comming.
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Nice info. They are ramping up the hype as the beta draws near....
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woot #10 will be great 
thanks for those Q/A
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specifically im hoping one of the other sites questions puts them on the spot about LAN functionality , something they have been avoiding confirmation of (whether you will need to connect to bnet to play on LAN or whether the feature is plain not in the game)
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On April 18 2009 05:00 SWPIGWANG wrote:
Terran: Terran still get mines...
No, they don't...at least in the BR2 build there were no mines. Nighthawk has autoturrets and hunter seeker missiles.
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nah , i thought reapers had mines?
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Yeah but they are timed mines (like grenades actually) rather than proximity mines. It's more of an aoe spell than actual mines like in BW.
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On April 16 2009 23:43 Nyovne wrote:
Yeah my question got dodged :D
On April 17 2009 02:10 Nyovne wrote:
Which is terrible since youll still have to fully commit against it, theres no easy to beat a drop or phaseprism option such as scourges or that fast 1 wraith or some golliaths.
I can understand your not liking how that'll work out, but that's just how it's gonna be. Drops are just not going to be such a hit or miss thing in SC2, it seems.
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The blizzard forum post did not link the other Q&As yet, does anyone have those? (if available)
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Awesome. I actually look forward to SCII now, as opposed to my feelings when they first released the news at blizzcon (is it almost 2 years ago now?)!
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EPT
