Hey I was wondering if anyone else experienced the same problems I had with the red dot from a nuclear launch in BW. I have a fairly common color blindness to areas of the red/green spectrum which makes it a lot harder to see the red dot when the nuke is placed on something green. Although the dot pulses I usually need to make a few passes before I can see it. In BW this was not a big concern to me because nukes were rarely ever used. However it seems nuke use is encouraged in SC2 which makes this a potential problem for anyone that shares my condition.
If there are others out there who know what I am talking about I would ask that you speak up so that Blizzard might change the color of the dot or make it easier to see somehow. Maybe make the dot bigger as the nuke gets closer to landing? Nukes are already buffed with double damage and a ghost that can cloak and has more than double the HP of the original ghost. With all these factors I feel I would be at a serious disadvantage against nukes since I could only stop them 1/5 times in BW. This new SC2 build will basically guarantee a successful nuke everytime on people that share my degree of color blindness.
That being said, the purpose of this thread is to find out if I am in a very small minority of players who should just suck it up or if we are a significant percentage of players who are worth a small change in the nuke dot design.
Thanks for reading
EDIT* Keep in mind there are different degrees of color blindness. Also that no one is asking that the nuke mechanics be rebuilt, just a simple color change or toggle switch for the color would be perfect. The point of this post is to see if a significant amount of players are actually affected to justify the change.
Also here is something to think about, what if your favorite player let it be Boxer, Savior, Reach, Jangbi or whoever is partially colorblind in the red green spectrum? What if SC2 became big in South Korea and you watched your favorite progamer lose a bunch of matches just because they have trouble seeing the red dot? Yes this wasn't a problem in BW, but nukes were rarely used. The truth is it is VERY possible that one of the big name players could be at least partially colorblind. I know there might be some people who will say "tough luck", but I feel having a toggled dot color would not be that much trouble. I could be wrong because I am a chemical engineer and not a game designer.
I thought the nuke damage was sort of increased, 800 damage no matter what? And the dot is only bigger for the person doing the nuking. The nukee only sees the same tiny dot from BW.
Yeah, i cant say more then: thats what beeing less able really means. We can't do anything about it.
Maybe implement a color blindness check. If you have color blindness the red dot becomes a slightly larger circle. Maybe we could make cloaked units visible. I guess the colorblind have trouble seeing those too right?
On March 21 2009 02:50 wo0py wrote: Yeah, i cant say more then: thats what beeing less able really means. We can't do anything about it.
I hope this isn't your general attitude towards disabilities. In this case I'm pretty confident we CAN do something abut it, and without affecting the difficulty for the general playing population.
OP, you have Red/Green colour blindness right? Would it help if you could choose the colour of the dot?
From what I know they made alot of changes in WoW to make it better for colorblind people, incl Rogues Combo points and DK's Runes. (for people who know what I talk about)
So I trust blizzard even if makes the game you hardly see the dot even if you focus on it, they will change the animation so you are able to see it a bit better.
But just FYI, it's pretty hard to see the dot in general for all by just scouting over, so if you can see the dot when you focus on stop, i doubt they will change it though.
I'm sorry but I lack the hand eye cordination (ability) to clone 12 scourge on 6 vessels in under 2 seconds. Can we make broodwar slower so I can compete...
Its the same thing, people with bad vision, bad cordination, color problems, hearing problems, nervous problems, mental problems, missing arms, lazy eyes, back problems and of course mental retardations are going to have trouble in all kinds of things, let alone video games.
That said if all this would require is changing the HUE of the nuke I think its something blizzard should do. If it involves having a non-red nuke beem, then tough luck.
There's really no reason why you couldn't just include an option to change the nuke colour to.. purple or whatever (trying to think of a colour that doesn't clash with maps, ie white would suck on snow maps) ;o
On March 21 2009 05:11 FrozenArbiter wrote: There's really no reason why you couldn't just include an option to change the nuke colour to.. purple or whatever (trying to think of a colour that doesn't clash with maps, ie white would suck on snow maps) ;o
It sounds like it would be a good idea, but then for everyone else it would be quite easy to find nukes. If it is snow terrain, you pick a red dot, if it is magma, you pick yellow, if it is jungle, you pick white or something. I haven't been following the changes of nukes very much but if they are just as easy, or easier to see than in SC:BW than this feature would make avoiding nukes too easy IMO.
.. How much easier a colour to spot can you find than red? Red contrasts with nearly every tile-set for us fortunate enough not to be colour blind -.,-
Yeah this is a legitimate gripe. The color of the dot should be modifiable to accommodate colorblind players. It could be changed to yellow or blue. It's pretty sad that a lot of people are so rigid in this thread =[
should be a toggle to purple. solves the problem for red/green colorblind people, but purple is harder to see for non-colorblind people. simple enough and no potential advantage from it
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
Actually roughly 10% of the gamer population are colour blind, you could just as well say that the US players are a small minority and therefore you shouldn't have any dedicated Blizzard servers since you don't got any pro players anyway and therefore don't need the ping etc.
A solution that works for everyone, would be to make the color of the dot be a hue-offset from it's background. Blue dots on yellow background, purple dots on green background.. and black or white dot on silver backgrounds or something along those lines. That means it might be a different color from the one time to the other, making it more difficult to recognize, but there will be a guaranteed contrast. (And the visibility can be balanced still through blinking rate/waveform and size.)
On March 21 2009 06:35 Badjas wrote: A solution that works for everyone, would be to make the color of the dot be a hue-offset from it's background. Blue dots on yellow background, purple dots on green background.. and black or white dot on silver backgrounds or something along those lines. That means it might be a different color from the one time to the other, making it more difficult to recognize, but there will be a guaranteed contrast. (And the visibility can be balanced still through blinking rate/waveform and size.)
And red dot on green/brown background??? (My point is that depending on the type of colour blindness you can't find any combination which works fine)
It doesn't really work, they could make an option where it switches colour from red->blue->green and then repeats, then it would be as easy for everyone to see.
I'm wonder though, if anyone here is actually color blind like myself and to what degree? The point of the post is to see if I'm just crying out over my personal problems or if it effects enough people to induce the small change of being able to change the color of the nuke dot. This change would not alter the gameplay in anyway; it would just be a toggle switch on the dot color. That being said, I do not understand how anyone could oppose this. The only reason I could see is if Blizzard needs to delay the game another month to do so, then I can see how someone would not want this feature, otherwise please feel free to enlighten me.
unless you're green or red colour, you shouldnt ever be more disadvantaged.. im sure there will be a SHIFT+ALT like in the original to change colours, no worries.
On March 21 2009 07:02 Da1d5 wrote: I'm wonder though, if anyone here is actually color blind like myself and to what degree? The point of the post is to see if I'm just crying out over my personal problems or if it effects enough people to induce the small change of being able to change the color of the nuke dot. This change would not alter the gameplay in anyway; it would just be a toggle switch on the dot color. That being said, I do not understand how anyone could oppose this. The only reason I could see is if Blizzard needs to delay the game another month to do so, then I can see how someone would not want this feature, otherwise please feel free to enlighten me.
There is no logical reason not to include the option you suggest, people are just being.. stupid, frankly -_-
On March 21 2009 07:19 Mobius wrote: unless you're green or red colour, you shouldnt ever be more disadvantaged.. im sure there will be a SHIFT+ALT like in the original to change colours, no worries.
Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
A) Who knows how many color blind use mac/pc B) Some People who have macs might not play games C) Some People who are color blind might not play games or even have a computer for that matter.
Besides these points from Blizzard's marketing dept what do you think they would pick; PC with handicap support or Mac?
The argument is retarded. That's all I'm saying (I'm not saying that blizz couldn't or shouldn't have handicap options)
I wasn't gonna reply to the first reply but since you guys seem to be lame in the head here it is.
tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it. PS- can't you change color hues on your monitor? I'm sure there are color blind programs that do shit like that.
CharlieMurphy - I see what you are trying to say as far as the thread issue, that the game should not be adapted for the physically limited. However don't you agree that we can use Teamliquid as a representative pool of how many colorblind people play starcraft? For example if 30% (not saying this is the right percentage) of the users on this board happen to be colorblind, wouldn't you agree that it might be reasonable to ask for this toggle switch for the nuke dot color? That is the whole purpose of this thread, I just wanted to get a rough head count to see if it is even an issue worth bringing up.
Also you must understand that the solution that the majority of the Teamliquid community agree with does not adapt the gameplay at all. The feature could just as easily be marketed as a new color alteration panel. If someone was asking that the nuke be removed then I would be right beside you arguing that the majority should not suffer because of the minority, but in this case it does not seem anyone would have to suffer. You could have your red dot and I could have my white/yellow dot and you would never know what color I'm seeing.
Yes you could argue that the nuker might be strategically planting the dot on a location where it would camoflauge and in that case you might have a point. But someone could easily use the methods you suggested to change monitor hues to get around this.
I feel confident when I say that the majority of members in this community understand what you mean by "The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it," and to be honest I completely agree with you. I deal with my color blindness everyday, and thank goodness that is the only limitation I have. However does that mean I cannot try to get a sense of the color blindness in the community of Starcraft players? Can I ask you if you it is too much if a wheelchair user to takes a poll in an area around a restaurant to find out if a local restaurant should consider adding a ramp? I feel I have done no harm and you seem to be upset that this thread is even up.
Regardless, I thank you for bringing the changing of the color hues on my monitor to my attention. If the dot remains red after the final version then that is exactly what I will do.
EDIT* I think Jee Jee was trying to show that the color blind and partially color blind are not as small a minority as one might think.
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it..
Is it really that much of a trouble to tint the nuke dot differently? Does it affect gameplay for us noncolorblind people at all? Changing it for the one-armed would alter the game significantly for us non-one armed; your argument's even worse than the person's you ridiculed.
ilovehnk - I think you are refering to blind. Colorblind means you see things in black and white much like a dog. I am sorry for misleading you, but I should have been more specific. I meant to say "at least partially colorblind". Eight percent of males are at least partially colorblind (stat from Vischeck.com) with the majority having problems in the red and green areas.
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
A) Who knows how many color blind use mac/pc B) Some People who have macs might not play games C) Some People who are color blind might not play games or even have a computer for that matter.
Besides these points from Blizzard's marketing dept what do you think they would pick; PC with handicap support or Mac?
The argument is retarded. That's all I'm saying (I'm not saying that blizz couldn't or shouldn't have handicap options)
I wasn't gonna reply to the first reply but since you guys seem to be lame in the head here it is.
tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it. PS- can't you change color hues on your monitor? I'm sure there are color blind programs that do shit like that.
If you want numbers on the prevalence of color blindness, google. Wikipedia says 7-10% of men in the US have the type of red-green color blindness the OP described.
Your 3 points are complete nonsense, it's irrelevant how many color blind people use mac/pc. It's irrelevant how many people that have macs play games. It's irrelevant how many colour blind people don't play games/don't own a computer.
It's present in 10% of the male population in general, and therefore it's bound to be about the same % in the gamer population.
Blizzard already makes all their games Mac compatible, a process which is much harder than allowing for a colour change of the god damned nuke-dot.
His argument was completely valid.
Oh and the reason this is different from catering to one armed individuals is that this literally has 0 impact on anyone not color-blind. It CHANGES NOTHING for you, it changes NOTHING for me. It simply alleviates some frustration for about 10% of the gamers.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
To Charlie... I hope you're kidding... maybe someone else will explain it to you, but it's hilarious your train of thought.... it's completely relevant and valid...
On March 21 2009 07:21 FrozenArbiter wrote: There is no logical reason not to include the option you suggest, people are just being.. stupid, frankly -_-
On March 21 2009 07:19 Mobius wrote: unless you're green or red colour, you shouldnt ever be more disadvantaged.. im sure there will be a SHIFT+ALT like in the original to change colours, no worries.
How does this affect the nuke dot?
Eh I think he meant if it was cast on a player's building or unit or somethign rather than on teh tileset.
I don't get it though, sure he's colorblind red/green but aren't we just as disadvantaged on a magma type map? Now doesn't he GET an advantage by doing this? I mean I know toggle switch could be available to anyone, I just think he's overemphasizing the point. EVERYONE had a friggin' hard time finding the nukes and passed over it very easily. EVERYONE missed them all the time.
That and I'm guessing then they're not going to keep the huge friggin' red circle that's been in all the videos thus far? Otherwise this entire topic is obselete.
FabledIntegral - You're right, it is hard to see for everyone, but imagine if 75% of a lot of popular maps are like the magma for you? Luckily I am not completely color blind, but I feel I would not be able to see the dot at all if it did not pulse. I could only imagine how difficult it would be if someone could not see it at all. Yes I know someone is going to say "well blind people can't see it either", but for the color blind, the solution is rather simple and achievable without jeopardizing gameplay features. Please realize that even though someone can be red/green colorblind, changing the color from red to orange could make the difference between something being visible or invisible.
EDIT* ramen247 - Please show your source. Last time I checked, the dot featured in the Protoss gameplay video would only be visible for the player nuking.
On March 21 2009 06:00 FrozenArbiter wrote: .. How much easier a colour to spot can you find than red? Red contrasts with nearly every tile-set for us fortunate enough not to be colour blind -.,-
Unless you're red, tileset is Ashworld and you're being nuked
They should just make a "color blind mode" option in the game video options, which would let you have another color set for shift+tab, like it would make you yellow and your opponent blue, and make nuke dots purple or something.
I' think it would be fair if there were possibilites to change the nuke markers color. Like in q3 where you can change the color of the rail beam etc. My uncle couldnt become a fighter pilot because of the exact same color blindness you have.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
People are ignorant. They can't possibly imagine what it would be like in the other guys shoes.
"tilts me so hard" ????
Lets give people the benefit of the doubt here and have them thinking that any radical color change or making the dot bigger might be an inadvertent nerf to nukes.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
People are ignorant. They can't possibly imagine what it would be like in the other guys shoes.
"tilts me so hard" ????
Your guess is as good as mine O_O I'm sure there would be one or two possible negative side-effects though, probably very small like: "If you can change the colour of the nuke dot, then all you have to do is make it the opposite colour of the terrain background and no on will ever manage to get a nuke off," but they are still side-effects.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
People are ignorant. They can't possibly imagine what it would be like in the other guys shoes.
"tilts me so hard" ????
Tilt is a poker term for a state of mental confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming over-aggressive. This term is closely associated with steam and some consider the terms equivalent, but 'steam' typically carries more anger and intensity.[1] ....... The most likely origin of the word "tilt" is as a reference to tilting a pinball machine. The frustration from seeing the ball follow a path towards the gap between the flippers can lead to the player physically tilting the machine (in an attempt to guide the ball towards the flippers). However, in doing so, some games will flash the word "TILT" and freeze the flippers, causing the ball to be lost for certain. The metaphor here being over-aggression due to frustration leads to severely detrimental gameplay.
Wikipedia =]
It's one of the most fitting words I think, as I feel about the same kind of frustration when the poker gods () are pissing me in the face as when reading some of these posts.
I guess I could just say "annoys me so bad" but I like tilt better..
On March 21 2009 12:11 Grobyc wrote: "If you can change the colour of the nuke dot, then all you have to do is make it the opposite colour of the terrain background and no on will ever manage to get a nuke off," but they are still side-effects.
Searching for a tiny blue dot is just about as hard as searching for a tiny red dot. One of thegreat things about starcraft is that there are all of these "mini-games" inside. Find the dot is one of them but no player should be excluded if a UI preference can fix this.
On March 21 2009 06:00 FrozenArbiter wrote: .. How much easier a colour to spot can you find than red? Red contrasts with nearly every tile-set for us fortunate enough not to be colour blind -.,-
if its optional, whats the problem?
make an optional colorblind option which changes the nuke dot and the coloring of shift+tab plus whatever else might be needed
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
A) Who knows how many color blind use mac/pc B) Some People who have macs might not play games C) Some People who are color blind might not play games or even have a computer for that matter.
Besides these points from Blizzard's marketing dept what do you think they would pick; PC with handicap support or Mac?
The argument is retarded. That's all I'm saying (I'm not saying that blizz couldn't or shouldn't have handicap options)
I wasn't gonna reply to the first reply but since you guys seem to be lame in the head here it is.
tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it. PS- can't you change color hues on your monitor? I'm sure there are color blind programs that do shit like that.
If you want numbers on the prevalence of color blindness, google. Wikipedia says 7-10% of men in the US have the type of red-green color blindness the OP described.
Your 3 points are complete nonsense, it's irrelevant how many color blind people use mac/pc. It's irrelevant how many people that have macs play games. It's irrelevant how many colour blind people don't play games/don't own a computer.
It's present in 10% of the male population in general, and therefore it's bound to be about the same % in the gamer population.
Blizzard already makes all their games Mac compatible, a process which is much harder than allowing for a colour change of the god damned nuke-dot.
His argument was completely valid.
Oh and the reason this is different from catering to one armed individuals is that this literally has 0 impact on anyone not color-blind. It CHANGES NOTHING for you, it changes NOTHING for me. It simply alleviates some frustration for about 10% of the gamers.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
On March 21 2009 06:00 FrozenArbiter wrote: .. How much easier a colour to spot can you find than red? Red contrasts with nearly every tile-set for us fortunate enough not to be colour blind -.,-
if its optional, whats the problem?
make an optional colorblind option which changes the nuke dot and the coloring of shift+tab plus whatever else might be needed
The post I was responding to was saying colour blind people might get an unfair advantage if they can change the colour. My point was that the non-colour blind already have the most contrasting colour you can find - red.
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
A) Who knows how many color blind use mac/pc B) Some People who have macs might not play games C) Some People who are color blind might not play games or even have a computer for that matter.
Besides these points from Blizzard's marketing dept what do you think they would pick; PC with handicap support or Mac?
The argument is retarded. That's all I'm saying (I'm not saying that blizz couldn't or shouldn't have handicap options)
I wasn't gonna reply to the first reply but since you guys seem to be lame in the head here it is.
tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it. PS- can't you change color hues on your monitor? I'm sure there are color blind programs that do shit like that.
If you want numbers on the prevalence of color blindness, google. Wikipedia says 7-10% of men in the US have the type of red-green color blindness the OP described.
Your 3 points are complete nonsense, it's irrelevant how many color blind people use mac/pc. It's irrelevant how many people that have macs play games. It's irrelevant how many colour blind people don't play games/don't own a computer.
It's present in 10% of the male population in general, and therefore it's bound to be about the same % in the gamer population.
Blizzard already makes all their games Mac compatible, a process which is much harder than allowing for a colour change of the god damned nuke-dot.
His argument was completely valid.
Oh and the reason this is different from catering to one armed individuals is that this literally has 0 impact on anyone not color-blind. It CHANGES NOTHING for you, it changes NOTHING for me. It simply alleviates some frustration for about 10% of the gamers.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
You misunderstood my post.
Then clarify, I've read your post 3 or 4 times and it's not getting any clearer -_-
Frozen the reason you aren't understanding his post is because it is a complete jumble of stupid crap.
I am sorry but if the only grip a colorblind person has with broodwar is a nuke dot and blizzard could make it another color, then DO IT. I would be pissed if my nuke not was no longer red because red stands out so well, but if some guy can't see it and wants purple or blue or anything not- white-yellow-orange (which would appear more dramatically then red) why would blizzard not actually do it.
If we were talking about important gameplay features of the game like giving people with bad cordinatation or terrible multi-tasking MBS and auto-mine because it evens the field I would understand CM's terrible opinion but as it stands it a nuke dot which I've seen ingame 4 times in actual ladder play since 2003 (twice in the same game). Not being able to see that dot would have cost me 2 of those games (twice in the same game and 1 was a 2 base tvz nuke rush lawl)
can't believe how cold you guys are toward disabled people, wtf is wrong with you guys. I'm very mad at you all now.
Color blind people can be just as fast, just as clever to play this game, and just as competent as a gamer. And things like color-blindness should not stop them from becoming competitive gamers because the core skill set that makes a good sc player has NOTHING to do with the ability to see color.
Telling a color blind person to stop playing the game is like telling a blind person to stop lifting weights because "LOL u can't even see the weight" (Which is some outrageous retarded argument, just like the ones you guys are making)
Let me re-iterate my post in case you guys don't get it.
List all the thing that makes a good bw player: logic planning multitask speed accuracy drive ...
Is "ability to see color" anywhere in that list? NO
why it is not in the list? Because bw is not some imaginative "pick a color" game where the player need to differentiate different shades of colors.
So why should we assist color blind people to see better in bw? Because color blind people can have all the good qualities listed that makes a good bw player, but still perform badly because he could not see color. Since broodwar is NOT a game designed to test the ability to see color, letting the color blind person see the color better does NOT gives him any advantage because it does NOT increase his bw abilities as listed above. However, by making him see better he is able to show us his competency at bw that he would otherwise unable to show.
So why should we NOT assist color blind people to see better in "pick a color"? Because "pick a color" is designed to test the player's ability to see a particular color, therefore letting the color blind person to see the color better would be giving him an advantage in the skill set required to be a good "pick a color" gamer, nullifying the hardworks of non-color-blind person who trains hard to see color better.
Is color blind that big of a deal to make a change? Yes, because as someone pointed out, 7-10% of males are color blind, and there are plenty male gamers that are also color blind, as there are no reason not to be a gamer if you are color blind.
wow, good to see i still have my account from years ago. I don't think is fair for the opponent to see the dot, maybe tech to something that helps you get the idea on where the nuke is going to strike. The rush you feel when you hear the nuke message is all that matters, if you see the dot right away it screws up the gameplay imo.
On March 21 2009 18:52 Kong John wrote: arent the nuke dots like HUGE in SC2? I saw a pic with this huge red fountain on it, this may have been chanced but ill try find it anyway.
I have the same problem as you have but i think being able to configure your enemies color is more important. shift-toggling to red sucks on jungle maps, can't see shit. I would rather toggle it to blue or white. You can do this shit since ages is fps so why not in sc2?
If someone said blizzard should make it possible to toggle between red and blue nuke dot simply because some people think red fucking sucks, there would be less trolling. Seriously, so much drama and so many people against something totally trivial that doesn't affect gameplay at all for someone that's not color-blind...
It would actually be more balanced, since like this a red player has a significant disadvantage vs. nuke (most people don't switch to green / red)
I think it would be awesome if Blizzzard just included a color editor. Something that you could use just to change the shades of different colors. That would not only be good for the color blind, but I talked to some people and they agree that colors in general would be fun to play with.
I'm red/green colorblind and I think it would be wonderful if Blizz allowed a color changing scheme! For example, I could change the dot to white or yellow and I'd never have a problem spotting the nuke location.
On March 22 2009 05:36 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: I'm red/green colorblind and I think it would be wonderful if Blizz allowed a color changing scheme! For example, I could change the dot to white or yellow and I'd never have a problem spotting the nuke location.
the problem with that is if your gonig to make it either white or yellow then it stands out far far more against all map schemes then red.
I don't think colorblind compatability should make it even harder then it already is too nuke ingame.
I think something like purple/brown/black/blue/lightblue would be a better balance. Otherwise anybody would be a damned fool to stay with red over white/yellow , which are unnatural colors for a sniper to be targeting either way.
man this thread has kind of turned into a shitstorm. it's amazing how many people won't even spend a few seconds to put themselves in other people's shoes.
comments like these
On March 21 2009 18:45 teapot wrote: Perhaps you should lobby Blizzard to have a separate server/ladder for disableds.
just make me shake my head.
i mean, i can see it from your point of view: you are not colorblind, so it is pointless for you, and think it would be a waste of time for blizzard. that's fine, but try being a little less self-centered for a moment, and see how putting an option to change the color of the dot will make the game a little better for the other 10%. would it kill you to try and think from someone else's point of view for a bit?
On March 22 2009 05:36 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: I'm red/green colorblind and I think it would be wonderful if Blizz allowed a color changing scheme! For example, I could change the dot to white or yellow and I'd never have a problem spotting the nuke location.
the problem with that is if your gonig to make it either white or yellow then it stands out far far more against all map schemes then red.
I don't think colorblind compatability should make it even harder then it already is too nuke ingame.
I think something like purple/brown/black/blue/lightblue would be a better balance. Otherwise anybody would be a damned fool to stay with red over white/yellow , which are unnatural colors for a sniper to be targeting either way.
White - Snow, dust etcetc Yellow - Badlands, grass in general, desert.
Red stands out more than almost any other colour..
Minor color blindness is more common than people think. Actually, some of you might even have it and not know it. Someone on my Halo 3 team just found out he had it. We always wondered why he would accidentally shoot us sometimes.
There's no reason why an option to help people with this shouldn't be implemented. It's such an easy fix.
On March 22 2009 06:37 TheosEx wrote: Minor color blindness is more common than people think. Actually, some of you might even have it and not know it. Someone on my Halo 3 team just found out he had it. We always wondered why he would accidentally shoot us sometimes.
There's no reason why an option to help people with this shouldn't be implemented. It's such an easy fix.
Omg me and my girlfriend got into a heated argument about whether my flipflops were blue or brown (mixed with gray). I thought they were blue. I called my mom and asked her, she said blue. My housemate said black, no color. Her roommate said brown. We are still in conflict -_- It's either me or her, one of us is color-blind, as well as her roommate and my mom -_-
On March 22 2009 06:37 TheosEx wrote: Minor color blindness is more common than people think. Actually, some of you might even have it and not know it. Someone on my Halo 3 team just found out he had it. We always wondered why he would accidentally shoot us sometimes.
There's no reason why an option to help people with this shouldn't be implemented. It's such an easy fix.
My teamates in halo always wonder why I 'accidentally' shoot them also.... I can't wait to use this as an excuse =).
I'm not making fun of your friend, I'm just an ass in teamplay games!
CharlieMurphy's argument was already debunked but I just wanted to speak to this...
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
Firstly it's spelled hearsay (unless you meant heresy, either way the spelling was wrong), but more to the point you don't seem to know what the term means. What I would guess you are objecting to is the lack of a citation to support the claim by JeeJee or at least some added information which might attest to his/her particular qualifications to present this claim, but while this might effect the degree of credibility or reliability we assign to the claim in our view, it does not make the claim hearsay. Just an FYI.
As to the original post, I'll weigh in on the side of the sentiment expressed that given that this seems like a problem with a pretty easy solution for Blizzard, it would be the right thing to do (and probably good business sense as well) to offer a solution.
Everything that can be adapted to without negatively impacting anyone else, should.
Your examples are poor because the "adaptions" made in those cases wouldn't equalize the playing field, they'd tip it in the other direction.
An option to change the nuke dot from Red to Purple benefits 10% of the male population (and like 0.4% of the female population, lucky bastards lol) while having 0 impact on anyone else.
Your line of reasoning is pretty counter-productive IMO. Yeah, I can't donate enough money to feed all of africa, but that doesn't mean I can't spot the homeless guy I meet on the street a few bucks. Blizzard can't cater very much to people without arms, but they can cater to those partially colourblind.
On March 22 2009 08:24 wo0py wrote: i dont get it. blizzard could implement this feature. but there are so many other things one can be disabled with.. i don't even think blizz is thinking about it. i don't sleep better when i think: well at least the colourblind can see the dots now. thanks blizz for making my day. and as i said earlier this topic. there are so many things ppl can't do. what if you broke your arm and you can't play baseball, would they let you in with an robotic ball gun in your left arm? or if you have a disformed body and what to do competition diving. they wouldn't give you an aerodinamic suit right? its a disabliity. but i really don't think its such a fuss.
every one has disabilities. some can't handle pressure, some can't play hours and hours to train and others can't focus games longer then 30 minutes. i don't think blizzard should implement this. just because it is whine imo.
and i don't mean this to spit on the disabled. because i would be spitting on everybody, myself included. but maybe its just my opinion that not everything is worth mentioning and worth adapting for.
How can you be so blind as to the actual pros/cons situation at hand.
This is a completely different situation from someone getting a robotic arm, or any of the other absurd examples you gave. In those examples, if the person gets what you suggest, they have an advantage over everyone else.
In the color blind situation, if blizzard fixes it, color blind people don't have an advantage over non-color blind people, instead it levels the playing ground. Everyone is even.
You think it's whine? This is a condition which affects 10% of males, gives them a disadvantage at the game based on something they were born with (aka has nothing to do with skill), is EASILY fixable, and the fix doesn't hurt the rest of gamers.
Clearly blizzard cares (rightfully so), since people have said that wc3 has a color blind feature, and you will notice that in the upcoming 3.1.0 patch for world of warcraft, the patch notes say there will be a color blind feature in the options.
I don't even know why I bother typing all this out to an inconsiderate prick like you; you probably won't even ever come back to read responses to the thread since you obviously didn't read the thread before replying anyways.
"Perhaps you should lobby Blizzard to have a separate server/ladder for disableds."
/facepalm
I'm sorry, but that is a little ignorant.
I think a color changer would level the playing field.
"i dont get it. blizzard could implement this feature. but there are so many other things one can be disabled with.. i don't even think blizz is thinking about it. i don't sleep better when i think: well at least the colourblind can see the dots now. thanks blizz for making my day. and as i said earlier this topic. there are so many things ppl can't do. what if you broke your arm and you can't play baseball, would they let you in with an robotic ball gun in your left arm? or if you have a disformed body and what to do competition diving. they wouldn't give you an aerodinamic suit right? its a disabliity. but i really don't think its such a fuss.
every one has disabilities. some can't handle pressure, some can't play hours and hours to train and others can't focus games longer then 30 minutes. i don't think blizzard should implement this. just because it is whine imo.
and i don't mean this to spit on the disabled. because i would be spitting on everybody, myself included. but maybe its just my opinion that not everything is worth mentioning and worth adapting for."
Most ignorant post here.
How can you be so blind?
Yes, there are certain cases like the diver, but you cant do anything about that to make it even.
In this case, you can.
Why wouldnt they? How is it whine? and most of all, why the fuck would you care? It doesnt affect you clearly.
Next you CBs will want the player colors red and green changed or removed too? What about the Blue/yellow CBs? I suppose we should get rid of those too? Like where does it end? It's not their responsibility to fix your problems. Don't you have some SB glasses or some CB program that filters the entire screen?
On March 22 2009 09:04 CharlieMurphy wrote: Next you CBs will want the player colors red and green changed or removed too? What about the Blue/yellow CBs? I suppose we should get rid of those too? Like where does it end? It's not their responsibility to fix your problems. Don't you have some SB glasses or some CB program that filters the entire screen?
erm if i remember correctly the dot in SC is replaced by a huge assed circle in SC2 and it even moves (eyes detect movement better than color difference) soo i don't u'll have a problem
also most krns rn't colorblind because we r a pretty homogeneous country and that gene was nvr in our gene pool to begin with...
that and we used to have a thing against disabled ppl till pretty recently... it's not like america where the country looks out for the disabled, if u lost ur legs in america u could probably still get a kik ass job that didn't really require the use of legs and u might actually even get a kik ass job that requires the use of legs (prosthetic) but in korea... that ain't happening
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
Actually roughly 10% of the gamer population are colour blind, you could just as well say that the US players are a small minority and therefore you shouldn't have any dedicated Blizzard servers since you don't got any pro players anyway and therefore don't need the ping etc.
erm u mean 10% of the population, not gamer population... gamer population may have lower or higher numbers due to the fact that there's an extra variable present (i.e. they play lot of games)
On March 22 2009 09:04 CharlieMurphy wrote: Next you CBs will want the player colors red and green changed or removed too? What about the Blue/yellow CBs? I suppose we should get rid of those too? Like where does it end? It's not their responsibility to fix your problems. Don't you have some SB glasses or some CB program that filters the entire screen?
This is like the gay marriage argument. "Where will it end? Soon we will have people marrying animals!"
It's absurd.
First of all, like we have repeated, approximately 10% of males have some degree of color blindness.
Last I checked, over 99% of color blind people are red-green color blind, so it makes quite a bit of sense to cater to the red-green color blind people. Besides which, if you allow people to choose the colors themselves, you cater to everyone while still not having any disadvantages to non-colorblind people.
No, special glasses to help with color blindness are tinted red and make everything look absurdly stupid. They cause eye strain, give headaches, and while they allow you to distinguish between red and green, everything looks really retarded as a result.
No, I do not know of any CB program, and I'm not going to retint my entire screen so that I don't get to see any red colors just because you're so selfish that you're unwilling for blizzard to spend 2 seconds to fix a simple problem that won't affect you.
It's not their responsibility to fix our problems? Actually, they're the ones selling a product to us, the consumers. I'd say that if I were a company selling a product, and 10% of my consumers wanted a change that takes virtually no effort and doesn't affect the rest of the consumers, I'd have to be completely braindead to not make the change.
On March 22 2009 09:17 R3condite wrote: erm if i remember correctly the dot in SC is replaced by a huge assed circle in SC2 and it even moves (eyes detect movement better than color difference) soo i don't u'll have a problem
also most krns rn't colorblind because we r a pretty homogeneous country and that gene was nvr in our gene pool to begin with...
that and we used to have a thing against disabled ppl till pretty recently... it's not like america where the country looks out for the disabled, if u lost ur legs in america u could probably still get a kik ass job that didn't really require the use of legs and u might actually even get a kik ass job that requires the use of legs (prosthetic) but in korea... that ain't happening
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
Actually roughly 10% of the gamer population are colour blind, you could just as well say that the US players are a small minority and therefore you shouldn't have any dedicated Blizzard servers since you don't got any pro players anyway and therefore don't need the ping etc.
erm u mean 10% of the population, not gamer population... gamer population may have lower or higher numbers due to the fact that there's an extra variable present (i.e. they play lot of games)
1: learn some grammar and take the time to spell before writing a long stupid post 2: No, the dot wasn't replaced by a huge ass circle, read the fucking thread you dumb fuck (I'm sorry for being so hostile but you're like the 4th person to say this... read the fucking thread before posting) 3: Good for you, most koreans aren't color blind, whoopdie fuckin do. Do you want a medal? Do you want an award for not having a genetic disability that isn't the fault of the person with it? Would you walk up to someone that had no leg from birth and laugh in his/her face and say "haha our country is better than yours because this doesn't happen!" If not, shut the fuck up, thanks. 4: Having a thing against disabled people is not something to brag about. 5: You're suggesting that color blind people play less games in order for the 10% to not translate to 10% of male gamers. Provide evidence for this (you won't find any because it's untrue) or shut the fuck up.
how can there even be arguments against this? seriously? it's not that hard to change the color of a fucking DOT, or allow us to change it ourselves. We aren't gaining an advantage, it's just making it so we can see the same dot that everyone else does.
On March 22 2009 09:04 CharlieMurphy wrote: Next you CBs will want the player colors red and green changed or removed too? What about the Blue/yellow CBs? I suppose we should get rid of those too? Like where does it end? It's not their responsibility to fix your problems. Don't you have some SB glasses or some CB program that filters the entire screen?
No, simply make ally colours not red/green or make you able to choose player colours yourself.
Yet I don't think I've convinced you some how. Your original post was exactly the line of argument I countered, so I was bit pissed off that you made that remark after a counter_argument is established, and not addressing it.
On March 22 2009 09:04 CharlieMurphy wrote: Next you CBs will want the player colors red and green changed or removed too? What about the Blue/yellow CBs? I suppose we should get rid of those too? Like where does it end? It's not their responsibility to fix your problems. Don't you have some SB glasses or some CB program that filters the entire screen?
No, simply make ally colours not red/green or make you able to choose player colours yourself.
Stop trolling/being a retard.
How sad is it when a site veteran is shitty up the site worse then the people who are regulars in the sc2 section.
CM stop acting like an idiot.
Didn't you just get off a mouth ban for acting this stupid before?
Some people strategically pick a nuke location based on the color of the unit or tileset in order to camouflage their nuke location. If the nuke dot color were changeable, then there would be no way to predict where the best place is to fire a nuke.
Changing the colors of your screen, however, would not affect the person who wants to camouflage his nuke. Because, even though the all of the colors on the screen might change, the contrast between the nuke dot and the rest of the colors would not change.
Then, perhaps, they could have an option where all reds turn into purple (as an example). IE, colour blind mode on, green turns into X, red into Y. Not sure if that's what you were suggesting in the second half of your post or if you meant something else.
Seriously, Blizzard should just implement a color-changing option menu, it would take maybe a couple hundred lines of additional code max. No reason not to, if it's going to drastically improve the game for 10% of the people playing it. Not just for the nuke dot, but for things like allied/unallied colors (LOL LET'S MAKE THEM RED AND GREEN) too.
For all you retarded fucks who have an objection to this being done, set your computer to interpret red as green (or vice versa) for a while and see how much you like it. Making things easier for people is good.
Of course, I also think SC2 should have things like recordable macros (because I hate that "progaming" is about who clicks fastest, and I have terrible speed myself), so feel free to take the above with a grain of salt.
On March 22 2009 11:29 CaptainPlatypus wrote: For all you retarded fucks who have an objection to this being done, set your computer to interpret red as green (or vice versa) for a while and see how much you like it.
I doubt that red-green colorblind people would object to having an option to turn the color red into purple.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
Theres hundreds of millions of people who can't afford a computer to run the game and others who can't even afford the game. Based on your logic they should gut the graphics so these unfortunate people can have a good sc2 expierence.
Doesn't work that way. But that being said there's no negative side for them making it colorblind accessable unlike the example I gave. And the example you gave...
If they can make it more accessable for color blind people great. I have no problem with it. But that doesnt mean I'm dumb for saying he's a small minority.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
this made my day lol
Did I say they shouldn't do it? No.
I'm all for it. It doesn't affect me any. But notice you don't see a whole lot of other colorblind people chiming in saying they have the same problem, because there aren't very many of them.
On the other hand, I think having customizable race colors is much much more important.
I don't want to name names, but some of the posters here are absolutely disgusting.
1. Nobody asked to be born colourblind. If you are too lazy to practice and you can't play it properly, that's your fault. If you are colourblind, it's not your fault, and you shouldn't be disadvantaged. You gonna tell me that not having legs and being too lazy to climb stairs are the same things?
2. Starcraft is a game of skill. Being born colourblind should not disqualify one from playing it because colourblindness shouldn't affect any of the skills needed to play the game.
3. The fix is so unbelievably simple that there's no reason not to do it. Buildings cannot cater for ALL disabilities. However, it doesn't cost much to install a ramp. Therefore they do it. We're not asking for massive changes so that every man, woman and child can play the game.
I think being too lazy to read and think about the OP should be banworthy.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
this made my day lol
Did I say they shouldn't do it? No.
I'm all for it. It doesn't affect me any. But notice you don't see a whole lot of other colorblind people chiming in saying they have the same problem, because there aren't very many of them.
actually you did say they shouldn't do it. OP asked whether he was in a small minority and therefore should just suck it up, and you replied in kind.
The stats on the colorblind people were already given many times over. It's not that rare.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
this made my day lol
Did I say they shouldn't do it? No.
I'm all for it. It doesn't affect me any. But notice you don't see a whole lot of other colorblind people chiming in saying they have the same problem, because there aren't very many of them.
actually you did say they shouldn't do it. OP asked whether he was in a small minority and therefore should just suck it up, and you replied in kind.
The stats on the colorblind people were already given many times over. It's not that rare.
10% of the total pop is a small minority. I could be a lame ass like you and post a wiki or dictionary link explaining what small minority is, but I won't.
Also you can put words in my mouth if you want but I never said them. I say what I mean.
On March 22 2009 16:05 The Storyteller wrote: I don't want to name names, but some of the posters here are absolutely disgusting.
1. Nobody asked to be born colourblind. If you are too lazy to practice and you can't play it properly, that's your fault. If you are colourblind, it's not your fault, and you shouldn't be disadvantaged. You gonna tell me that not having legs and being too lazy to climb stairs are the same things?
2. Starcraft is a game of skill. Being born colourblind should not disqualify one from playing it because colourblindness shouldn't affect any of the skills needed to play the game.
3. The fix is so unbelievably simple that there's no reason not to do it. Buildings cannot cater for ALL disabilities. However, it doesn't cost much to install a ramp. Therefore they do it. We're not asking for massive changes so that every man, woman and child can play the game.
I think being too lazy to read and think about the OP should be banworthy.
Actually they do it because there's a federal law thanks to the ADA passed during FDR's administration But your point remains equally valid.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
this made my day lol
Did I say they shouldn't do it? No.
I'm all for it. It doesn't affect me any. But notice you don't see a whole lot of other colorblind people chiming in saying they have the same problem, because there aren't very many of them.
actually you did say they shouldn't do it. OP asked whether he was in a small minority and therefore should just suck it up, and you replied in kind.
The stats on the colorblind people were already given many times over. It's not that rare.
10% of the total pop is a small minority. I could be a lame ass like you and post a wiki or dictionary link explaining what small minority is, but I won't.
Also you can put words in my mouth if you want but I never said them. I say what I mean.
ok, then plase explain what you meant by your "blind people can't see the dot too". how was that relevant at all?
and as for your "look, there isn't a lot of colorblind people that are chiming in on this issue, clearly it's pretty rare" ... in this very thread, there's about 50 unique posters, and 7 have explicitly identified themselves as colorblind (whether partial or otherwise), several more have mentioned friends of theirs. more may have just not mentioned it.
well, i think the discussion has run its course especially with robo's post below, which is quite reassuring.
You'll notice the following: A new Color Blind option is available under the Interface panel.
I'm partially color blind too and most of the time it sucks. I got teased a lot in elementary school art class 'cause I'd draw red grass and stuff if I had to use those color pencils that didn't have the name of the color written on the side ^^
On March 22 2009 16:05 The Storyteller wrote: I don't want to name names, but some of the posters here are absolutely disgusting.
1. Nobody asked to be born colourblind. If you are too lazy to practice and you can't play it properly, that's your fault. If you are colourblind, it's not your fault, and you shouldn't be disadvantaged. You gonna tell me that not having legs and being too lazy to climb stairs are the same things?
2. Starcraft is a game of skill. Being born colourblind should not disqualify one from playing it because colourblindness shouldn't affect any of the skills needed to play the game.
3. The fix is so unbelievably simple that there's no reason not to do it. Buildings cannot cater for ALL disabilities. However, it doesn't cost much to install a ramp. Therefore they do it. We're not asking for massive changes so that every man, woman and child can play the game.
I think being too lazy to read and think about the OP should be banworthy.
Actually they do it because there's a federal law thanks to the ADA passed during FDR's administration But your point remains equally valid.
*grin* I'm just going to cater to wisecracking people like you because it doesn't cost much and say that the law was passed because it didn't cost much and was therefore feasible. No law was passed to require buildings to have multilingual lift operators who also knew sign language in order to cater for people of all disabilities from all countries.
On March 22 2009 09:17 R3condite wrote: erm if i remember correctly the dot in SC is replaced by a huge assed circle in SC2 and it even moves (eyes detect movement better than color difference) soo i don't u'll have a problem
also most krns rn't colorblind because we r a pretty homogeneous country and that gene was nvr in our gene pool to begin with...
that and we used to have a thing against disabled ppl till pretty recently... it's not like america where the country looks out for the disabled, if u lost ur legs in america u could probably still get a kik ass job that didn't really require the use of legs and u might actually even get a kik ass job that requires the use of legs (prosthetic) but in korea... that ain't happening
On March 21 2009 06:24 Klockan3 wrote:
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
Actually roughly 10% of the gamer population are colour blind, you could just as well say that the US players are a small minority and therefore you shouldn't have any dedicated Blizzard servers since you don't got any pro players anyway and therefore don't need the ping etc.
erm u mean 10% of the population, not gamer population... gamer population may have lower or higher numbers due to the fact that there's an extra variable present (i.e. they play lot of games)
1: learn some grammar and take the time to spell before writing a long stupid post 2: No, the dot wasn't replaced by a huge ass circle, read the fucking thread you dumb fuck (I'm sorry for being so hostile but you're like the 4th person to say this... read the fucking thread before posting) 3: Good for you, most koreans aren't color blind, whoopdie fuckin do. Do you want a medal? Do you want an award for not having a genetic disability that isn't the fault of the person with it? Would you walk up to someone that had no leg from birth and laugh in his/her face and say "haha our country is better than yours because this doesn't happen!" If not, shut the fuck up, thanks. 4: Having a thing against disabled people is not something to brag about. 5: You're suggesting that color blind people play less games in order for the 10% to not translate to 10% of male gamers. Provide evidence for this (you won't find any because it's untrue) or shut the fuck up.
On March 22 2009 16:05 The Storyteller wrote: I don't want to name names, but some of the posters here are absolutely disgusting.
1. Nobody asked to be born colourblind. If you are too lazy to practice and you can't play it properly, that's your fault. If you are colourblind, it's not your fault, and you shouldn't be disadvantaged. You gonna tell me that not having legs and being too lazy to climb stairs are the same things?
2. Starcraft is a game of skill. Being born colourblind should not disqualify one from playing it because colourblindness shouldn't affect any of the skills needed to play the game.
3. The fix is so unbelievably simple that there's no reason not to do it. Buildings cannot cater for ALL disabilities. However, it doesn't cost much to install a ramp. Therefore they do it. We're not asking for massive changes so that every man, woman and child can play the game.
I think being too lazy to read and think about the OP should be banworthy.
Actually they do it because there's a federal law thanks to the ADA passed during FDR's administration But your point remains equally valid.
*grin* I'm just going to cater to wisecracking people like you because it doesn't cost much and say that the law was passed because it didn't cost much and was therefore feasible. No law was passed to require buildings to have multilingual lift operators who also knew sign language in order to cater for people of all disabilities from all countries.
More likely it was passed because the president had polio and was in a wheel chair but ok;) And it passed the senate and house because the president was immensely popular having gotten the US out of the great depression and he was also a war time president.
Not only that but if you take into account all the changes that had to be made collectively in order to comply with the ADA it was immensely expensive But it DID provide a lot of jobs temporarily.
So no the law was not passed for the reason you listed, I think it's safe to say. Sorry, nothing beats a good ADA debate
I bet if we had a popular deaf president who didn't sign ASL and didnt know how to use an elevator we might see a law like that as well! For some reason though, I feel that's unlikely lol.
while I think the majority of colorblind people are attention whores about it I don't see a reason not to include a way of changing the colors of certain things
On March 22 2009 18:38 HonestTea wrote: Plus, it makes good business sense for Blizz to do this!
yeah they could write suitable for retards on the box. seriously everyone who is against this you don't realize how fucking frustrating it is if that little red dot on the minimap sneaks in ur base and like 5 seconds later you realize it and OOPS reaver chillin in scv line
On March 22 2009 22:25 floor exercise wrote: while I think the majority of colorblind people are attention whores about it I don't see a reason not to include a way of changing the colors of certain things
Yeah you try it and see how you like it, see if you start whining about it.
I'm a damned animator... my passion is art, and I'm fucked over with this stupid ass condition. How do you think that feels? Yeah, maybe I'm a bit of an attention whore about it, but I don't care, it's a bullshit condition that they should have come up with a fix for already
On March 22 2009 22:25 floor exercise wrote: while I think the majority of colorblind people are attention whores about it I don't see a reason not to include a way of changing the colors of certain things
Yeah you try it and see how you like it, see if you start whining about it.
I'm a damned animator... my passion is art, and I'm fucked over with this stupid ass condition. How do you think that feels? Yeah, maybe I'm a bit of an attention whore about it, but I don't care, it's a bullshit condition that they should have come up with a fix for already
I don't doubt that it's annoying to have, but there's so many people out there who downplay actual disabilities that impact their ability to work, drive a car, live independently, but so many of the color blind people I've known pretty much takes every opportunity to bring up the unbearable torture that is their life being unable to discern between red and brown.
Concerning sc2 I don't see a reason why they cant let you override player colors and have the color of the player also be the color of things like their nuke dots.
To me color blindness is the equivalent of a food allergy. Really sucks for you, but I think it's an abuse of the term disability unless you have some form that makes it impossible for you to see anything unless there's glaring contrast, like all you see is silhouettes or something.
I definitely try to be respectful of it and I don't want to appear like I'm going on a crusade against color blind people, but a lot of them that I've known act like big babies over it
floor exercise - I do not feel like you are trying to be respectful at all. You basically called me and every CB person here "whiny". If your comments are directed to other CB people you know who are not in this thread, then why come into a thread and post comments that you know will get a negative response, especially if we have come up with a solution you agree with? Without the change it would be hard to play SC2 competitively. Wouldn't you whine too if a small change would allow you to play your favorite game competitively? If you have been following this thread, I specifically asked the colorblind to speak up. So if anyone is responsible for making people act like "cry babies" or "attention whores" then it is me. If you have not been following the thread, then that is understandable too, 7 pages is a lot to read through.
Also I do not feel like I am being whiny. There are a lot of things I want to complain about in SC2, but I specifically chose this topic because it is an easy fix that will not change the gameplay for anyone else. As I have said before, I take BW seriously on iccup and I hope to be able to do the same in SC2. However I will not be able to if I cannot prevent the nuke. Think of this thread as more of a "Hey guys I wanted to get a head count on how many CB people there are in here so I can tell if it is even an issue worth bringing up" and less of a "I want attention" thread".
Why is me stating that I don't think color blindness can be classified as a disability guaranteed to provoke negative responses? Aren't you assuming there are no rational level headed color blind people when you make a claim like that? I said I support your mission to get SC2 changed. I never said it was whiney with regards to SC2.
I thought my comments were topical and actually pretty constructive since this is essentially a thread about color blind people trying to provoke change in a games design, isn't other peoples perception of your how you treat your condition an important thing to be made aware of if you want people to be sympathetic to your issue? sorry if I offended you
On March 21 2009 18:45 teapot wrote: Perhaps you should lobby Blizzard to have a separate server/ladder for disableds.
????
You do know that one of the best War3 Undeads right now is a disabled kid with a condition that probably will kill him in the next 5 to 10 years right?
There's an option to change colors for units in game and on the mini-map in War3 (designed specifically for the color-blind), why not extend it to SC2 and nukes?
I don't think it's a bad idea to be able to arbitrarily change the colors. Extend it so you can change the colors for everything to anything you want, and completely color blind players can play with little to no disadvantage. We are already able to change colors of units in SC1, on the screen and on the minimap, and it doesn't seem to change the gameplay at all.
On March 23 2009 02:03 floor exercise wrote: Why is me stating that I don't think color blindness can be classified as a disability guaranteed to provoke negative responses?
You misunderstand him. You calling all color blind people whiny babies/attention whores is guaranteed to provoke negative responses.
I don't see how you could miss that connection.
That's like going onto a pregnant women's forum and making a post like "LOL PREGGOS ARE FAT
There is also the idea that you could change the color palette for your video card so that it substitutes some mix of green and blue for any values of red... I wonder if that could work out.
On March 22 2009 22:25 floor exercise wrote: while I think the majority of colorblind people are attention whores about it I don't see a reason not to include a way of changing the colors of certain things
Yeah you try it and see how you like it, see if you start whining about it.
I'm a damned animator... my passion is art, and I'm fucked over with this stupid ass condition. How do you think that feels? Yeah, maybe I'm a bit of an attention whore about it, but I don't care, it's a bullshit condition that they should have come up with a fix for already
I don't doubt that it's annoying to have, but there's so many people out there who downplay actual disabilities that impact their ability to work, drive a car, live independently, but so many of the color blind people I've known pretty much takes every opportunity to bring up the unbearable torture that is their life being unable to discern between red and brown.
Concerning sc2 I don't see a reason why they cant let you override player colors and have the color of the player also be the color of things like their nuke dots.
To me color blindness is the equivalent of a food allergy. Really sucks for you, but I think it's an abuse of the term disability unless you have some form that makes it impossible for you to see anything unless there's glaring contrast, like all you see is silhouettes or something.
I definitely try to be respectful of it and I don't want to appear like I'm going on a crusade against color blind people, but a lot of them that I've known act like big babies over it
I would say that a lot of people you know are colour blind without you knowing, the thing is that there aren't that many situations where notice if someone is colour blind or not.
As such the people you know which are colour blind are obviously attention whores about it, anyway this is also the reason most who are not colour blind are not aware that as many as 10% of males have the disability. And yes it is a disability since there are things you can't do when you are colour blind even if it is a really minor one, kinda like people who need glasses.
On March 23 2009 02:03 floor exercise wrote: Why is me stating that I don't think color blindness can be classified as a disability guaranteed to provoke negative responses? Aren't you assuming there are no rational level headed color blind people when you make a claim like that? I said I support your mission to get SC2 changed. I never said it was whiney with regards to SC2.
I thought my comments were topical and actually pretty constructive since this is essentially a thread about color blind people trying to provoke change in a games design, isn't other peoples perception of your how you treat your condition an important thing to be made aware of if you want people to be sympathetic to your issue? sorry if I offended you
Thank you for the apology. I just hope you understand what made me upset was not that you said color blindness should not be classified as a disability. It was the fact that you basically walked into a thread and said "you people are whining and shouldn't be because you do not have a real disabled". Your comments were topical, and the your claim that color blindness should not be classified as a disability is fairly constructive, but you have to see that you did not stop there. You continued over the span of one post that we are just complaining. Also how am I assuming there are no rational level headed color blind people? Are you just trying to be cute with technicalities? Can you not see why your comments would upset me and other color blind people? You're trying to say what we have is not a disability and on top of that: color blind people whine too much. That is just OFFENSIVE. Even though I would agree with you that it is not a major disability how do you expect me to not give you a negative response?
I think it's a very valid point no matter how bogus it sounds to other people. That blows for real and it seems like a very valid point. I read the first page of retarded shit and knew I missed the quoting boat so I skipped to the last.
One point you dont want to make the nuke worthless by making it obvious for all to see but alienating a certain type of player (even if they are in a minority) isn't what the game industry has shifted too. Toggleable colour dot isn't a bad idea but I'm sure there are a bunch of people who would say its excessive regardless.
Ninja was a famous oldschooler who was colour blind. Smuft flipped on him at a WCG for playing with the fog of war off on his minimap saying it was a glitch. lOOL.
On March 21 2009 02:31 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: You're a small minority
Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too.
are you dumb you're dumb there's more colorblind people than there are mac users yeah, let's not make a mac version of the game
Theres hundreds of millions of people who can't afford a computer to run the game and others who can't even afford the game. Based on your logic they should gut the graphics so these unfortunate people can have a good sc2 expierence.
Doesn't work that way. But that being said there's no negative side for them making it colorblind accessable unlike the example I gave. And the example you gave...
If they can make it more accessable for color blind people great. I have no problem with it. But that doesnt mean I'm dumb for saying he's a small minority.
He is.
You're dumb for writing "Blind people have trouble seeing the dot too" you fucking retard. They have trouble seeing their hands. Your post made as much sense as saying "Italian's eat pizza and fish have trouble breathing air"
I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
Go play World in Conflict, in that game you never control more than 15 units and theres no economy, if you lose some units you get some a few secs later no trouble.
nttea - Nobody is asking Blizzard to change the gameplay to cater to the handicapped. It is a change that is strictly aesthetic and does not affect how the game is played for you nor does it give the color blind an advantage. What you are suggesting, although sarcastically, would be a change to the gameplay.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
I could cater to it with a ban if you'd like -_- Thread is just repeating itself, I wish I could lock it without moving it to closed..
An aspect that hasn´t been mentioned yet is that we don´t even know if the dot is supposed to be sisible at all - last we heard the audio warning was removed. Also in a 3D enviroment the dot is a lot easier to "hide". Just a quick turn of the camera and you could place it in a buildings "shadow".
I´m expecting the dot to be as visible as undetected stealth units ergo dumb luck, sharp eyes and knowledge about the game. Customizable dot colours might result in people complaining about getting bad colours - the worst case scenario.
While I have no problem with an option for changing the dot color, I hate when people wrap themselves in an issue and berate other people from their moral high ground. In the 19th century they used to call this "waving the bloody flag". These days I call it "waving the victimhood flag". If you're a woman, a minority, gay, blind, deaf, color-blind, have polydactyly, restless leg syndrome, "1 in 11 people die every day from exothritis!", what the fuck ever, it somehow gives you the right to call other people retards for not jumping to your every whim because you are TEH VICTIM CAN'T YOU STEP IN MY SHOES AND SEE HOW AWFUL EVERYTHING IS?
FieryBalrog - I have found myself on your side of things on numerous occasions and I know what you are saying and absolutely agree. However I feel this situation is different. A lot of the comments made here were from people who probably did not read the entire thread. If they did they would see, as you have, that we are asking for a color editor which would be fun for everyone to play with. It's an addon that doesn't seem to hurt anyone. I'm sure you have already figured this out since you have no problem with this idea, but can you see how it upsets me that people are resisting this? The bare bones of what happened in this thread is this:
1) We ask for a feature that can be used by everyone that could make the game more aesthetically pleasing (this idea evolved throughout the thread). 2) Because we happened to be colorblind, some people feel this is a classic case of the disabled trying to adapt the world for themselves. However these same people did not read the entire post and therefore do not realize we are asking for a universal feature that would be fun for everyone without changing the game. Therefore there is resistance. Not from people who simply don't want the feature, but are taking the stance that everyone should not suffer for the minority (I agree with this, but no one has to suffer in this case). 3) People start taking things personally and start a huge debate.
As a result people are resisting a feature that is intended to make the game playable for the colorblind, yet can be used by everyone to customize colors. Clearly this is not the classic debate I referred to earlier and it pains me that people are even opposing the colorblind asking for this feature. I mean why do people have to be oppose me ASKING for a feature like this? I ask Blizzard for something that is not negative for anyone and people say "NO DEAL WITH IT" just because my intentions were to make the game playable for the colorblind. Of course I'm upset. Of course I feel these people opposing this are not morally correct. I know I am repeating myself, but I have said this too many times in the thread and people still ignore it.
Also the comments made in this thread are not due to "waving the victimhood flag". It is because people failed to read the thread and are blindly opposing this feature. In fact many of the people who are taking the moral high ground as you say, are not even colorblind so they are not asking anyone to step into their shoes.
That being said I hope you see why many of these posts made me so upset and feel why some of the people here may feel they need to take a moral stance on this. You may have the last word, because this thread has become a battleground and has lost its original purpose, therefore I want it to just fade away.
Let me re-iterate my post in case you guys don't get it.
List all the thing that makes a good bw player: logic planning multitask speed accuracy drive ...
Is "ability to see color" anywhere in that list? NO
why it is not in the list? Because bw is not some imaginative "pick a color" game where the player need to differentiate different shades of colors.
So why should we assist color blind people to see better in bw? Because color blind people can have all the good qualities listed that makes a good bw player, but still perform badly because he could not see color. Since broodwar is NOT a game designed to test the ability to see color, letting the color blind person see the color better does NOT gives him any advantage because it does NOT increase his bw abilities as listed above. However, by making him see better he is able to show us his competency at bw that he would otherwise unable to show.
So why should we NOT assist color blind people to see better in "pick a color"? Because "pick a color" is designed to test the player's ability to see a particular color, therefore letting the color blind person to see the color better would be giving him an advantage in the skill set required to be a good "pick a color" gamer, nullifying the hardworks of non-color-blind person who trains hard to see color better.
Is color blind that big of a deal to make a change? Yes, because as someone pointed out, 7-10% of males are color blind, and there are plenty male gamers that are also color blind, as there are no reason not to be a gamer if you are color blind.
I think I've made my point
evanthebouncy! for mod, admin, director of QA at Blizzard, and President of the USA.
Yeah, I'm another one of those partially colorblind people. I have some trouble finding the little red dot in BW, but I don't have a problem seeing it once I've found it (I guess that makes me normal when it comes to this issue). That said, I empathize with other people in this thread who can't or have severe trouble seeing it, as I may not have this particular problem, but it's come up before.
Honestly, the best solution they could come up with that wouldn't mess up gameplay for anyone else, is add the option to change the color of the dot in some options setting. similar how in q3 you can change the color of your rail stream etc.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
Get out, you're not welcome here.
Go back to ggnet
and who are you to decide? this thread is pretty dumb, most people with this "handicap" can even see the damn dot, they might just need to try a little bit harder. Just the same way a stupid guy will have to try harder to learn to play starcraft properly.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
Get out, you're not welcome here.
Go back to ggnet
and who are you to decide? this thread is pretty dumb, most people with this "handicap" can even see the damn dot, they might just need to try a little bit harder. Just the same way a stupid guy will have to try harder to learn to play starcraft properly.
Read the thread, then come back.
I'm tired of explaining the same shit to dumb fucks like you that can't be bothered to read the thread.
If you won't read the thread, I'm not going to bother writing you out my argument again.
Go kill yourself, thanks
And no, it's not at all like the same way a stupid guy will have to try harder to learn to play starcraft properly. Color blindness isn't something from laziness on our part, we were born with it, it's not like it's our fault we can't see the dot.
On March 26 2009 21:11 nttea wrote: and who are you to decide? this thread is pretty dumb, most people with this "handicap" can even see the damn dot, they might just need to try a little bit harder. Just the same way a stupid guy will have to try harder to learn to play starcraft properly.
You don't know the first thing about colorblindness, do you...?
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
I could cater to it with a ban if you'd like -_- Thread is just repeating itself, I wish I could lock it without moving it to closed..
I always wondered why TL didn't seem to have that functionality.
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
Voice of authority on the matter.
On a side note, anyone with this condition is welcome to play with me 1v1. My race is terran.
On March 23 2009 18:11 nttea wrote: I am a stupid player, so i have trouble with figuring out what units to make, it would be nice if blizzard could make so that units are built for me. It would help people with my kind of handicap.
Get out, you're not welcome here.
Go back to ggnet
and who are you to decide? this thread is pretty dumb, most people with this "handicap" can even see the damn dot, they might just need to try a little bit harder. Just the same way a stupid guy will have to try harder to learn to play starcraft properly.
.. And how is this an argument against including a feature that's 1) Easy to implement 2) Doesn't hurt anyone, but helps a lot of people ?
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
The berries in the distance are about the size of the red nuke dot, no?
I will laugh if you tell me you can make out the berries in the distance in the 2nd picture. Even if you can, I doubt that if someone handed you the second picture, and asked you "are there berries in the distant branch" your immediate answer would be yes (which is much easier than finding the nuke dot at any given screen position in an SC game, seeing as there are multiple berry clusters and the image is smaller).
Haha, interesting perspective... must suck to be color blind. I can't imagine changing the color for the user (but not everyone in the game) being anything bad. If everyone can do it, no harm done.
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
The berries in the distance are about the size of the red nuke dot, no?
I will laugh if you tell me you can make out the berries in the distance in the 2nd picture. Even if you can, I doubt that if someone handed you the second picture, and asked you "are there berries in the distant branch" your immediate answer would be yes (which is much easier than finding the nuke dot at any given screen position in an SC game, seeing as there are multiple berry clusters and the image is smaller).
I love the site that has these comparisons, all but one of the pairs of images look almost exactly the same for me.
This thread got me thinking about the variation with the ease of spotting the red dot based things like on tileset, nuke victim's color, or even nuke victim's race (zerg with damaged buildings spewing blood). I see perfectly fine, but found myself thinking about changes to the red dot. If I'm a terran, should the effectiveness of nukes vary based on criteria like this? Seems like nukes should be just as viable no matter the tileset etc.
Instead of a pulsing dot, would a dot that cycles through every color in the rainbow be more uniform? Then however hard/easy Blizzard wants it to be spotted can be controlled by the size of the dot. Wondering is something like this might even be an improvement for those who see perfectly fine.
I made this myself, I ordered to colour scales from how they look to me, I see blue and green like everybody else but red just becomes very faint green and often so dark that I barely sees it.
And I am honest when I say that I can't tell which one are red and which are green in that pic.
But of course then I am a dichromat which is quite rare, most colour blind pictures are for heavy anomalous trichromats which basically means that red and green looks exactly the same for them. However for me red is a really dark green so I can see the difference in those pictures usually.
Also even most of the anomalous trichromats are quite mild meaning that the red and green phases are not totally identical but instead they are just harder to distinguish than for a normal person.
Looking at the similarity website... when driving do the lights always seem green? Stop when the light is at the top and go when it's on at the bottom?
On March 27 2009 19:24 FabledIntegral wrote: Looking at the similarity website... when driving do the lights always seem green? Stop when the light is at the top and go when it's on at the bottom?
The website is an exaggeration, it takes color blindness to an extreme. It also depends on how big the object is, for example.
Like in the picture with the girl in the red dress, that one I can tell is red very easily, but others like the one with the map for example are hard for me to tell.
Also keep in mind that since our brains are used to not seeing as much of either color as we're supposed to that they compensate for it, so while the two traffic light images look similar to me (if I look a little closer it's easy to tell the difference), the top color still looks like red to me with the bottom one looking like green.
Besides the fact that they're completely different shades. I mean look at the picture on the right, you can easily tell the difference in shade between the two greens it's edited to, and they do that very purposefully in every traffic light.
Looking at this from a non-color-blind perspective, it appears that the nuke dot color and the green player color are very close. Asking someone who's color blind to distinguish between them is unreasonable.
I made this myself, I ordered to colour scales from how they look to me, I see blue and green like everybody else but red just becomes very faint green and often so dark that I barely sees it.
And I am honest when I say that I can't tell which one are red and which are green in that pic.
But of course then I am a dichromat which is quite rare, most colour blind pictures are for heavy anomalous trichromats which basically means that red and green looks exactly the same for them. However for me red is a really dark green so I can see the difference in those pictures usually.
Also even most of the anomalous trichromats are quite mild meaning that the red and green phases are not totally identical but instead they are just harder to distinguish than for a normal person.
Does anyone else see green, red ,red, green, red, green red, green green green green green?
Or am I colorblind too? I like the idea of the purple hue, but i didn't read many pages in this thread, so if the issue is resolved... sry.
Tested self, appears I am not colorblind. The arrangement was just a little weird.
I made this myself, I ordered to colour scales from how they look to me, I see blue and green like everybody else but red just becomes very faint green and often so dark that I barely sees it.
And I am honest when I say that I can't tell which one are red and which are green in that pic.
But of course then I am a dichromat which is quite rare, most colour blind pictures are for heavy anomalous trichromats which basically means that red and green looks exactly the same for them. However for me red is a really dark green so I can see the difference in those pictures usually.
Also even most of the anomalous trichromats are quite mild meaning that the red and green phases are not totally identical but instead they are just harder to distinguish than for a normal person.
Does anyone else see green, red ,red, green, red, green red, green green green green green?
Or am I colorblind too? I like the idea of the purple hue, but i didn't read many pages in this thread, so if the issue is resolved... sry.
Tested self, appears I am not colorblind. The arrangement was just a little weird.
The point is that for me it is Green green green green green green green green green green With the farthest to the elft being the darkest and then going brighter and brighter towards the right.
so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind, but i'll be god damned if i can see shit in this picture:
also i remember in my grade12 class we were learning flash and i got into an argument with my teacher whether the timeline is blue or purple (there was a test question on this and i got it "wrong")
and that TL thread with the flashgame where you had to order the colors (link).. i like totally bombed the blue->purple row every time, although the other rows were ok
hopefully it's my monitor's fault and/or the picture is bs & that game is bs. but some people did get perfect scores >_>
On March 28 2009 10:03 JeeJee wrote: so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind, but i'll be god damned if i can see shit in this picture:
also i remember in my grade12 class we were learning flash and i got into an argument with my teacher whether the timeline is blue or purple (there was a test question on this and i got it "wrong")
and that TL thread with the flashgame where you had to order the colors (link).. i like totally bombed the blue->purple row every time, although the other rows were ok
hopefully it's my monitor's fault and/or the picture is bs & that game is bs. but some people did get perfect scores >_>
Well, that looks like a 44, but either the test is really difficult or I'm a tiny bit colorblind since that's pretty difficult to make out.
On March 28 2009 10:03 JeeJee wrote: so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind,
Few are really red/green color blind, instead they are green/orange or brown/red. With that I mean that almost none actually can't tell a difference between the pure colors due to them having very different shades, it is when you start mixing colors the problems arise such as purple, orange and pink which for me looks exactly like blue, green and gray.
On March 28 2009 10:03 JeeJee wrote: so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind, but i'll be god damned if i can see shit in this picture:
also i remember in my grade12 class we were learning flash and i got into an argument with my teacher whether the timeline is blue or purple (there was a test question on this and i got it "wrong")
and that TL thread with the flashgame where you had to order the colors (link).. i like totally bombed the blue->purple row every time, although the other rows were ok
hopefully it's my monitor's fault and/or the picture is bs & that game is bs. but some people did get perfect scores >_>
On March 28 2009 10:03 JeeJee wrote: so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind,
Few are really red/green color blind, instead they are green/orange or brown/red. With that I mean that almost none actually can't tell a difference between the pure colors due to them having very different shades, it is when you start mixing colors the problems arise such as purple, orange and pink which for me looks exactly like blue, green and gray.
Actually with the way your retina works with different cones (one of the types being red/green), red/green colorblindness actually is the common type, as it stems from people not having as many of the red-green cones as they should. Yes, this does cause people to have trouble seeing the difference between mixed colors like blue/purple, but the root of the problem is red/green color blindness.
On March 28 2009 10:03 JeeJee wrote: so i think actually i have some weak version of deuteranopia which is supposedly RG colorblind and blue/purple colorblind. except i'm not RG colorblind,
Few are really red/green color blind, instead they are green/orange or brown/red. With that I mean that almost none actually can't tell a difference between the pure colors due to them having very different shades, it is when you start mixing colors the problems arise such as purple, orange and pink which for me looks exactly like blue, green and gray.
Actually with the way your retina works with different cones (one of the types being red/green), red/green colorblindness actually is the common type, as it stems from people not having as many of the red-green cones as they should. Yes, this does cause people to have trouble seeing the difference between mixed colors like blue/purple, but the root of the problem is red/green color blindness.
What I meant is that he might have misunderstood the colorblindness description. Red/Green just mentions which parts of the spectrum is altered and not which colors you can't distinguish.
If he can't distinguish between purple and blue it means that he is probably red/green colorblind with either Protanomaly or Protanopia, but if he as he say can distinguish between red/green with no problem he is most likely a Protanomaly. I just tried to use his term, since there is no "Blue purple" color blindness since purple is no pure color, just green, red and blue are and thus those are the only things you can have a problem with.
So not being able to tell purple from blue means that he don't see red like most do.
I remember thinking a bit like that when I was younger, since I had really no problem telling red from green but orange from green, blue from purple, brown from green, pink from gray/white or cyan from gray/white is really impossible. (Darker versions of the colors becoming white are gray)
But by definition I am still red-green since they define 4 of the 5 more common types as red-green color blindness even though they are very different in reality and even among the same type there are differences.
This color blindness stuff is really interesting. Hmm, I guess you guys don't have to deal with the annoying red food sections in some shops -_- And how red "increases appetite". But I definitely agree that the nuke dot color / shade / size should be changed so that even the colorblind people can easily notice it.
you could always try to circumwent that colorblindness handicap of yours by changing the ingame graphics of the nuke dot (modders do that all the time), but if you do so be prepared for mayn ppl of the comunity callling you a cheater (i wont belong to them as long as you dont alter anything other than the color of the dot)
what you d need to do so:
WinMPQ/listfiles SFGRPConv/SCPalettes/Image Editing Program
much patience (if you do this the first time)
to avoid the headaches i will upload a file you can use to change your nukedot to light blue later
instructions how to use the modded grp file:
i present 2 of the more easy ways, each one has pros and drawbacks
1: Make a custom *.mpq using WinMPQ You add the modded grp file as 'unit\thingy\nuketarg.grp' exactly that! else it wont work! Get MPQDraft (sourceforge.net) and launch the SCBW with the MPQ using MPQDraft or Create a custom SEMPQ using MPQDraft
Pros: Even if Blizzard would patch the red dot graphic(which they didnt 10 years long) you still can use your custom one without any further editing
Drawback: You cant use this in combination with other scbw launchers such as Chaos or iCCup
OR 2: Backup your stardat.mpq file (for having the red dot if you need it later on) You add the modded grp file as 'unit\thingy\nuketarg.grp' exactly that! else it wont work! This will prompt you too overwrite the existing red dot file 8thus you did backup the mpq first) do it.
Pros: As long as Blizzard doesnt patch exactly the red dot file or checks for GRP within MPQ modifications (which they didnt for 10 years), you wont have to change anything even when new patches come out, You CAN use this with ANY launcher like iCCup or Chaos
Drawback: if the patch_rt.mpq should ever contain a newer red dot file you would have to add it to the patch_rt.mpq instead of the stardat.mpq each time a new patch comes out(which is a bit more risky since they MIGHT check the latest patch mpq for modifications! Why? because in this mpq the recent stats for the game are included too)
personally id recommend the second one (adding to stardat.mpq via WinMPQ/listfiles after backup as 'unit\thingy\nuketarg.grp')
if you need another color due to your color blindness just tell me, i might do it for you since id probably be faster/more experienced in this process = less time wasted for the sum of us
I don't understand this at all. I'm red-green color blind myself and I never had any trouble with the nuke dot. I have trouble telling who is who on mirror games or double race team games, I have trouble seeing lots of stuff on the minimap. But the nuke dot? It fucking blinks, it could be gray on gray you'd still see it.
Just for information in the Blizzcast 8 (about Diablo 3) :
Color scheme is pretty solid right now, it follows very closely to the Diablo 2 color scheme. We slightly shifted some of the hues to help, especially with color blindness, to try and get some of the more problematic combinations. We took out, for example, uniques were gold, we’ve changed their color I think we did purple which is a bit of a nod to World of Warcraft but the problem was gold and yellow were really close. Even though the gold lettering was unique and everything it was often very difficult to tell the two apart. So we just did that not to get away from Diablo but to try and fix that kind of readability issue.
On March 31 2009 05:48 VIB wrote: I don't understand this at all. I'm red-green color blind myself and I never had any trouble with the nuke dot. I have trouble telling who is who on mirror games or double race team games, I have trouble seeing lots of stuff on the minimap. But the nuke dot? It fucking blinks, it could be gray on gray you'd still see it.
There are different kinds of color blindness even among the same kinds and red-green is really 4 kinds which all gets bunched up into one name.
Colorblind accessibility We would then learn one of the most interesting facts of the night. While asking if Starcraft II will include accessibility options for the colorblind, Chris revealed that he himself is colorblind. The shocking part of the statement was that no, Starcraft II has not included any colorblind accessibility options even though the lead producer of the project is colorblind. Truthfully, he sounded aggravated but resigned.
He goes on to say that, he has trouble with reds and greens as well as yellows and light greens. Quite honestly, we showed surprise in that this was not a priority for Blizzard, particularly since the lead producer from the project was colorblind himself. Chris continues by saying that they would really like to include some colorblind accessibility later on down the road however, with a list of things that are already not going to make it before shipment, colorblind options was not high on the priority list.
This was amazingly unfortunate because 10% of the male population is colorblind. One can only wonder why this is not a priority.
Colorblind accessibility We would then learn one of the most interesting facts of the night. While asking if Starcraft II will include accessibility options for the colorblind, Chris revealed that he himself is colorblind. The shocking part of the statement was that no, Starcraft II has not included any colorblind accessibility options even though the lead producer of the project is colorblind. Truthfully, he sounded aggravated but resigned.
He goes on to say that, he has trouble with reds and greens as well as yellows and light greens. Quite honestly, we showed surprise in that this was not a priority for Blizzard, particularly since the lead producer from the project was colorblind himself. Chris continues by saying that they would really like to include some colorblind accessibility later on down the road however, with a list of things that are already not going to make it before shipment, colorblind options was not high on the priority list.
This was amazingly unfortunate because 10% of the male population is colorblind. One can only wonder why this is not a priority.
Ten percent seemed kind of high. I dunno if they made that stat up of the top of their head or rounded a few million people, but according to the Howard Hughes Medical Institute its only 7 percent of men who are colorblind. That is a 2008 report, though. And its specifically American men. Still I think something should be done on Blizzards behalf, if only to add in some options for the "nuke dot".
It's not colour blindness. It's colour deficiency. Colour blindness is far rarer. I have colour deficiency and I've never had too much trouble with the red nuke dot. Even on desert terrain I could always spot it if I saw it.
Colorblind accessibility We would then learn one of the most interesting facts of the night. While asking if Starcraft II will include accessibility options for the colorblind, Chris revealed that he himself is colorblind. The shocking part of the statement was that no, Starcraft II has not included any colorblind accessibility options even though the lead producer of the project is colorblind. Truthfully, he sounded aggravated but resigned.
He goes on to say that, he has trouble with reds and greens as well as yellows and light greens. Quite honestly, we showed surprise in that this was not a priority for Blizzard, particularly since the lead producer from the project was colorblind himself. Chris continues by saying that they would really like to include some colorblind accessibility later on down the road however, with a list of things that are already not going to make it before shipment, colorblind options was not high on the priority list.
This was amazingly unfortunate because 10% of the male population is colorblind. One can only wonder why this is not a priority.
I can understand where they're coming from. It's not high on the priority list because it probably won't stop colorblind individuals from buying the game, like me. I may have red/green colorblindness, but I live with it, and I love Starcraft, and I think Starcraft II is going to be awesome.
Now, if they were to do something big out the same way dedicated servers were left out of Modern Warfare 2 out, I'd tell Blizzard to fuck right off. (Dedicated servers wouldn't work because iccup would be on that shit so fast :p )
seems like a lot of work to make an accommodation that really doesn't lower your experience of the game as a general user. It only has a negative impact on people who are both colorblind and intend on playing this game highly competitively. I can't see a colorblind person who buys this game for the campaign caring if he misses the nuke the first few times he plays a mission.
On November 19 2009 11:28 _rdm_ wrote: seems like a lot of work to make an accommodation that really doesn't lower your experience of the game as a general user.
The amount of work required to put in a simple colour change option for a few effects is so ridiculously small compared to the rest of development that this shouldn't even be a consideration.
That's an unfortunate update, but hopefully they do something down the road when they are hard pressed for new features for the expansions . . . like a color scheme editor so your units can glow or shimmer. Haha, imagine chrome spinners on your pimped out hellion if it gets 5+ kills.
well, in SC1 if you shift + Tab you can change your race color between red and green I believe so why not do a combination of keys to switch between two predefined colors for the nuke dot? I guess should be doable
Its odd that they don't have an option for this. In World of Warcraft, a Color Blind mode was implemented on the graphics options that really helped me a lot.
we need these kind of support from the company. My friend is red/green color blind and it's so painful to watch him place a CC at the expansion. It literally takes him 10 seconds due to the indistinguishable red/green pallets.
I like what LoL are doing, despite not being a fan of the game they do implement some cool features. Colourblindness for me is generally OK even with the nukes because they tend to be on expands or your army so you can generally find them with a process of elimination. For me by far the worst thing are zealot-on-zealot engagements, just strangely awkward for me but bar that I'm generally OK
I feel bad for colorblind folk after reading this thread.
My uncle, father, and brother all have experience dealing with colorblindness (uncle lost out on pilot school because he's colorblind, slightly, in one eye iirc), and while I'm not colorblind (thankfully), my condolences to anyone who fights it daily.
Blizzard should add color-blind functionality, but I'm not sure how that would affect the competitive aspect of play.
On January 06 2011 05:39 Hikko wrote: Its odd that they don't have an option for this. In World of Warcraft, a Color Blind mode was implemented on the graphics options that really helped me a lot.
I was going to say that. In the meantime colourblind folks you'll have to get a friend to sit next to you and help you out on that one =(
Blizzard should add color-blind functionality, but I'm not sure how that would affect the competitive aspect of play.
If a feature was implemented maybe tournaments could accept doctor's notes for colour blindness and allow you to use the setting. Or tournament maps themselves could be edited.
Was this posted in official sc2 forums ? there are a lot of variabes that need to be considered when making a game. Instead of discussing the problem find a solution. Talk to an official admin of the game and make a topic of the response that you gain. Im sick of seeing poststhat demoralis a company for an issue they arnt aware of.
On March 21 2009 01:55 Socio wrote: I thought the nuke damage was sort of increased, 800 damage no matter what? And the dot is only bigger for the person doing the nuking. The nukee only sees the same tiny dot from BW.
Nukes in SC2 do 300 (+200 vs structures) damage. In Brood War they did 750 damage.
On January 15 2012 10:13 1hpBuiltForLove wrote: Depending on how many sc2 players have red-green blindness, I may become more prone to using nukes in my upcoming matches. Nice thread! :D
Thank god you are not on my server lol. I suffer from some mystifying technical issue that means I don't get the "Nuclear launch detected" warning, AND the colourblindness handicap My Terran friend abuses this far more than he should haha
In the Reddit interview where they brought up the Stronger Team Colors mod, Dustin Browder mentioned that they were interested in options for color-blind users, so at the very least, they are aware of it. Probably on the two-mile long laundry list of stuff they haven't quite gotten to yet though.
Seeing as 1 in 10 males have colour blindness, I'm relatively confident that there are people on Blizzard's own dev team that have colour blindness. It'll probably be in a minor patch or in HOTS or something, but i'm sure it'll happen.
On January 15 2012 10:36 Chunhyang wrote: If they change the color, won't someone else with color blindness in the color they elect to change it to have a problem suddenly?
If they change it to purple, won't this make problems for people with color blindness in the pink-bieber spectrum?
The ideal solution is a "color blindness' toggle that changes the color scheme throughout the whole game to reduce the effects for red/green color blindness, similar to what league of legends has done. Someone else mentioned placing cc/nexus, and I imagine there are other situations that could be adjusted as well.
Personally, I think issues like this should be considered bugs in the game. Imagine if there was heavy graphics artifacting for people with amd processors. Blizzard would quickly move to fix the problem, and people with color blindness had even less to do with the bug then people owning amd processors.
On January 15 2012 10:36 Chunhyang wrote: If they change the color, won't someone else with color blindness in the color they elect to change it to have a problem suddenly?
If they change it to purple, won't this make problems for people with color blindness in the pink-bieber spectrum?
There's not really all that many varieties of colorblindness going around. It's either total color blindness (very rare), red-green or blue-yellow blindness. Since this particular issue is only with red-green and full color blindness, one or two settings would cover everything.
Making this game more friendly for colorblind people should be a high priority for Blizzard, in my opinion. Some of the comments that are on the first page (including some by old friends of mine) are just plain retarded in my opinion: If you have a hearing problem, you can change the settings so the high priority sounds are what you hear the most, or raise the volume in general so you can hear it better. If you are blind, well there's no reasonable solution (make the game in brail?) that would help people with that disability out. But if you are colorblind, there is an easy and practical solution that simply has not been implemented by Blizzard yet, even though Stronger Team Colors alleviates this need a bit.
i have no problems with the red nuke dots, basicly because i've given up on looking for them. can't see it anyway i just pull my workers at random from a mining base and hope it's the correct one (whoops army gone, but hey, workers are safe lol)
however what's waaaaay more annoying is the base placement, that takes atleast 3 to 5 tries every time. some sort of option for a color scheme change would be really nice, but then it's blizzard... it'll get implemented "soon" (read: never).
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
This is a stupid problem to have in a video game. Roughly 10% of men are red-green color blind - Blizzard should simply change the color so it's fair to everybody. Those who aren't color blind have absolutely no problem spotting a red dot, so it might as well be a color that's just as easy for men who are color blind to see.
Fun aside, is there not a colorblind mode available? I know that World of Warcraft has it available and was under the assumption, being as I'm not colorblind I haven't actually checked. Though if there really isn't there needs to be, seems kind of silly when almost every other game on the market has the option, that any company would ignore it. Might be a good idea to start a thread about it and try and escalte Blizzard's need to implement it (and by create a thread I mean on the official site).
On January 15 2012 12:12 Radin wrote: This is a stupid problem to have in a video game. Roughly 10% of men are red-green color blind - Blizzard should simply change the color so it's fair to everybody. Those who aren't color blind have absolutely no problem spotting a red dot, so it might as well be a color that's just as easy for men who are color blind to see.
Ill say it again: there should be an option to change red/green to some other colours
Reading this thread, with the insane amount of retarded posts and baiting, makes me think that TL was not significantly better pre SC2 as some of the olde timers make it out to be. I'm surprised none of those trolls were banned.
I feel bad for Jinro aka frozenarbiter and orb. They really tried to reason with all those dummies.
Yeah, there's no reason this shouldn't be an option. Pretty low on Blizzard's priority list though, I imagine. Especially since the red nuke dot appearance is so iconic to Starcraft.
Considering how MW3 has a option for color-blindness like turning Green into Blue and Red as Orange I think there should also be a option for SC2 as well.
I don't see how having an option to change nuke dot colour is a bad thing. Now it was brought up in the first page in the thread, the some colours will get lost on some tilesets, but I suppose you could get around that by allowing the dot to change colours? Or would that make it too obvious where the dot is?
I hate being color blind, and the stronger color mod helps, but the nuke dots are still impossible to see. It gets really frustrating, as if its not frustrating enough in school not being able to do an entire chapter of chemistry due to it revolving around colors of elements and stuff like that...
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
I honestly dont see the number here.. What number is it? Just out of curiosity
On January 15 2012 11:39 Indifferent_century wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
I honestly dont see the number here.. What number is it? Just out of curiosity
On January 15 2012 11:39 Indifferent_century wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
I honestly dont see the number here.. What number is it? Just out of curiosity
6
Cheers
Although I cant see shit worth of numbers in that picture, ive never had problems on spotting nuke dots on green maps
I guess there are varying degrees of color blindness - I thought I had it pretty bad
I am also a red/green colorblind gamer. Recently I seen Riot posting a patch with their colorblind color changes. I am excited for that because teamfights were nearly impossible with the green/red health bars. I wish Blizzard would do the same for SC2.
On March 21 2009 07:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Guy's argument was that there are more color blind than there are mac users. This is totally irrelevant. I could make an equally shitty argument about something equally as trivial. And where did this stat of his come from anyways? It's totally heresay.
A) Who knows how many color blind use mac/pc B) Some People who have macs might not play games C) Some People who are color blind might not play games or even have a computer for that matter.
Besides these points from Blizzard's marketing dept what do you think they would pick; PC with handicap support or Mac?
The argument is retarded. That's all I'm saying (I'm not saying that blizz couldn't or shouldn't have handicap options)
I wasn't gonna reply to the first reply but since you guys seem to be lame in the head here it is.
tbh I could say fuck you anyways, should we make the game more one armed friendly because they were born that way too? The game is the game, you understand you have physical limitations for anything you do. Deal with it. PS- can't you change color hues on your monitor? I'm sure there are color blind programs that do shit like that.
If you want numbers on the prevalence of color blindness, google. Wikipedia says 7-10% of men in the US have the type of red-green color blindness the OP described.
Your 3 points are complete nonsense, it's irrelevant how many color blind people use mac/pc. It's irrelevant how many people that have macs play games. It's irrelevant how many colour blind people don't play games/don't own a computer.
It's present in 10% of the male population in general, and therefore it's bound to be about the same % in the gamer population.
Blizzard already makes all their games Mac compatible, a process which is much harder than allowing for a colour change of the god damned nuke-dot.
His argument was completely valid.
Oh and the reason this is different from catering to one armed individuals is that this literally has 0 impact on anyone not color-blind. It CHANGES NOTHING for you, it changes NOTHING for me. It simply alleviates some frustration for about 10% of the gamers.
God this thread tilts me so hard, why is ANYONE opposed to a change that brings no negative side-effects to anyone :[
So I guess any one would be able to change the color of the nuke dot depending on what map you currently play to make it easier to spot. Anyone else don't see the problem with this? The nuke dot should not be easy to spot but it should however be possible for spot even if you are colorblind. In other words you would need to make it into another color altogether and not have several different options of colors because otherwise it could easily be abused.
I have exactly the same issue. I just have to pray I know where the nuke is - I can be looking EXACTLY where the nuke lands and not see the dot. Selecting a dot colour would be preferrable. Ie:- yellow would be perfect but yes ultimately you need an option to exclude a colour.
I use the strong colour mod, and atleast for units it helps A LOT.
The same goes for the minimap - I miss crap all the time even when I'm looking at it and have vision of everything. The number of times I've looked at the minimap, see nothing, but flick to a drop flight path location and see an incoming drop...
Sure people have different issues, but really colour blindness is EASY to resolve. Just make the Ally/Enemy colour option user configurable AND make the minimap and dots follow those same user selected team colours.
well lategame you don't have enough time to look everywhere for the dot and people won't point it at something green, but something red or behind something. And i guess green maps should be downvoted if you have these issues anyway. Other then that it is a handicap for you, many people have handicaps for example seeing burrowed units movements because their eyesight isn't the best anymore. Its okay to for example change healthbars for it if it is somewhat important to the gameplay, making it impossible to play the game for people with the handicap. But something like nukes can't be changed, because otherwise it becomes to easy to spot for people without this handicap, making it useless. So you have to train in order to overcome this handicap thats all.
Other then that you can easily change the effects in sc2, like the stronger color mod etc. But using this on ladder or in tournaments is cheating and using a handicap as an excuse to cheat is really poor.
PS: never used the dot to spot nukes since bw, where nukes actually did damage unlike in sc2 and you had way more positions where a nuke could land.
On January 15 2012 11:39 Indifferent_century wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
I honestly dont see the number here.. What number is it? Just out of curiosity
6
Cheers
Although I cant see shit worth of numbers in that picture, ive never had problems on spotting nuke dots on green maps
I guess there are varying degrees of color blindness - I thought I had it pretty bad
There is varying degrees (most can see the difference of red and green if the area is large enough) but there is also different kinds of color blindness. The green/red is probably the most common but some can see green/red fine and have issues with other colors.
On January 15 2012 19:13 XChoke wrote: I have exactly the same issue. I just have to pray I know where the nuke is - I can be looking EXACTLY where the nuke lands and not see the dot. Selecting a dot colour would be preferrable. Ie:- yellow would be perfect but yes ultimately you need an option to exclude a colour.
I use the strong colour mod, and atleast for units it helps A LOT.
The same goes for the minimap - I miss crap all the time even when I'm looking at it and have vision of everything. The number of times I've looked at the minimap, see nothing, but flick to a drop flight path location and see an incoming drop...
Sure people have different issues, but really colour blindness is EASY to resolve. Just make the Ally/Enemy colour option user configurable AND make the minimap and dots follow those same user selected team colours.
This, this, a hundred times this! Make us able to choose the color of the enemy on the minimap. It is of utmost importance to spot everything on the minimap, yet the standard red makes it incredibly hard for me, to the point where I've stopped playing the game out of sheer frustration.
I dont understand why this has gotten such a negative vibe. Im all for accessibility, but keeping the "pro scene" intact (IE: not modifying too much things to accomodate everyone). But like Jinro said in an earlier post; how is a red dot harder to spot and a purple, or pink, or yellow dot? (for non colorblind).
Every color i just mentioned with every tileset (yellow maybe not on desert oasis ), don't see why this shouldnt be changeable.... <.<
Its like saying; you cant change your settings (if there were, mind you) for left handed players to play with mouse in the left hand; because you have a disability that one should just live with it? Its dumb... (sorry for somewhat incoherent sentences, but i hope i made my point come across .. Eearly morning + no coffee + hangover <.<)
im NOT colour blind and i can't see the dot unless it's like right under my nose.
if nukes become super popular, i feel like they would be totally gamebreaking for me.... i have to literally move my army and then pull workers from every mining base every time i hear a nuke.
also, what's stopping the guy having 2-3 ghost academy's and firing simultaneously? would cause a lot of issues.
This thread is total fail, all the guy is asking for is an option to change the colour of the nuke dot. It doesn't affect anything for non-colour blind people, it is an easy change. So much misinformed discrimination from some people.
Some people are assuming that the dot is supposed to be difficult to spot and that allowing a color change gives an unfair advantage.
I disagree because red is probably the most easy to spot color for the non colorblind. I believe Blizzard's intent is for the dot to be easily visible. Therefore allowing you to change the color of the dot to make it easily visible to yourself should be something that is included in the game.
And the ability to modify Team colors to whatever colors you want should also be a no brainer.
1. This thread turned into such a huge flamefest over a small detail in the game that is only used at end-game. (or in some sort of cheese) 2. Jinro has valid points & why people are opposed to the ability to change the color of the dot based on personal preference would not be detrimental to the game at all... as was stated bright red is pretty much the best hue for non color-blind people (except maybe on magma-covered maps). 3. Maybe the OP brought up a huge controversial issue (even though it didn't seem like it to me at first...) considering the lead producer couldn't get resources diverted during the making of SC2 in order to help colorblind people.
Oh, when nukes are thrown out end-game I still feel like whether they land or not isn't even what the Terran player is going for (in TvZ atleast). It feels like they are trying to make you multitask to the point where you just can't keep up, and slow down your reaction time to any other harass / pushes they are doing at the time. Even someone experienced in defending against nukes could spend 5 or so seconds to find the spot the nuke is landing on a large map... hell a lot of the time I can't even find it at all just because it's so small.
I kind of feel that the dot should actually not be difficult to see for anyone when you are actually looking at it. The challenge should simply be to quickly find the location on the map where the dot actually is. So when and if you eventually are looking at the correct place, the dot should be clearly visible.
Now knowing that the red-green colorblindness is fairly common in males, I think it might be a good idea to have the nuke dot be bright purple, or have a white haze around it or something like that, for everyone. Sure, it might be slightly easier for the non-colorblind to see but I don't think that's a problem. See the first paragraph for why.
I am also color blind to the red/green spectrum. It would be great to be able to change the color of the dot or change it to yellow or white for everyone. This does cause me huge issues as I can be looking right at the red dot and unable to see it. I understand they cant make a game to fulfill everyones needs but simply changing the color in the menu options would not only make if fair for everyone but would make it better for everyone. Red/Green is the #1 problem for people that are color blind so changing it to anything else would be better for most. Also I have friends specifically use nukes on me because they know I cant see the dot. Please be understanding, imagine if you were looking right at i and couldnt see it!
On January 18 2012 03:02 chestnutcc wrote: You can hear the nuke as it comes closer to the target, the whooshing sound gets louder. It also gives plenty of time to react.
Are you joking right now? You really think colorblind people just need to LISTEN HARDER to spot nukes?
Son, everyone should just listen to nukes. Its the easiest way to zone them out. Just swing about the minimap till a slight whooshing fills up your ears as you move over an area, bam, nuke spotted. And unless the terran is nuking dead space, the obvious nuke choices should be... obvious.
On January 18 2012 03:25 chestnutcc wrote: Son, everyone should just listen to nukes. Its the easiest way to zone them out. Just swing about the minimap till a slight whooshing fills up your ears as you move over an area, bam, nuke spotted. And unless the terran is nuking dead space, the obvious nuke choices should be... obvious.
Interesting. I never knew this. Listening will help a player move detectors/scan, but I don't think it would be as effective as being able to see the red dot for discerning ground zero.
I'm red-green colour blind to but probably to a lesser extent to most. I was able to see the SC:BW nuke dot perfectly fine, but in SC2 I really have to focus to see it. Sometimes, even though I know where the nuke is (as in watching a replay), it still takes a considerable amount of time before I can focus on it.
Being somewhat red-green colourblind as well I support this. However, I don't think the nuke is the biggest problem. As others have said, the minimap colours need to be customizable - the red and green colour scheme is really hard to deal with sometimes. For instance, I was playing a pvz vs a friend of mine on shattered temple, where he made a nydus worm just behind my mineral line, but even when I consciously looked at the minimap in that area I couldn't see it. I enjoy the jungle/gras tileset, because I prefer lighter maps as opposed to darker maps, but with almost all of the minimap being green and ally colour being a brighter green it can become very hard to distinguish small areas of enermy red on the map.
I've never been able to see the dot. But I'm pretty severely colour blind. I hadn't really thought of it as an issue worth fixing, but it makes total sense.
On January 18 2012 03:32 chestnutcc wrote: Nuke radius is enormous. Zoning it down to the point does nothing, since you have to pick up and run and buildings cant run.
Knowing exactly where the dot is can help tell where the ghost is. There are positions where a ghost can fire a nuke across some kind of terrain obstruction. Knowing the location of the ghost can allow a player to judge whether they can kill the ghost in time. It also lets you know exactly what you need to evacuate. This is very important when someone tries to break a tank line with nukes and bio. You need to know how many tanks you can leave sieged to cover the retreat.
How does knowing the center of a circle help pinpoint a point on its circumference? (Okay strictly speaking its needed but you know what I mean, with no other information) And note that the ghost's range is even larger than the nuke radius. Map to map, there will be self evident positions to nuke from and to nuke.
Deuteranomaly, caused by a similar shift in the green retinal receptors, is by far the most common type of color vision deficiency, mildly affecting red–green hue discrimination in 5% of males. It is hereditary and sex-linked.[8]
1. Ppl need to stop pulling *stats/facts* out of their asses.
2. Other types of color-blindness are not affected, because the contrast of green and red..etc. are still pretty strong.
3. Changing the color to purple or colors will affect ppl with Violet-blind condition.
4. This is like asking blizzard to have an option for those with hearing loss. It's a far more common condition than deuteranomaly..etc., mind you. And I am pretty sure most of them dealt with it by changing the options on their end AKA turn the volume up.
5. Adjust your screen calibration, the color saturation and gamma on your end, pblm solved.
On January 18 2012 03:51 chestnutcc wrote: How does knowing the center of a circle help pinpoint a point on its circumference? (Okay strictly speaking its needed but you know what I mean, with no other information) And note that the ghost's range is even larger than the nuke radius. Map to map, there will be self evident positions to nuke from and to nuke.
in terms of starcraft and nuke, it does. It narrows down the area where you should search and with the terrain in mind, you could determine where the ghost is, logically.
On January 18 2012 03:51 chestnutcc wrote: How does knowing the center of a circle help pinpoint a point on its circumference? (Okay strictly speaking its needed but you know what I mean, with no other information) And note that the ghost's range is even larger than the nuke radius. Map to map, there will be self evident positions to nuke from and to nuke.
The thing is you DO have other information. Knowing where the dot is can help you deduce the location of the ghost based on the terrain and positioning of everything. How is this so hard to realize? You brought up a good point on listening for the nuke, but there is no way you can argue that it doesn't help to know the exact location of where the nuke will land.
On January 15 2012 11:39 Indifferent_century wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
I honestly dont see the number here.. What number is it? Just out of curiosity
Other people have posted what number it is, but I downloaded the pic, enlarged it, then just highlighted the outline of the number in black to show those that can't see it. Knowing what number it is is one thing, but I know if it was me, the curiousity of what it looked like would kill me
I'm not colourblind, and so to me, basically, the '6' is tinted in greens and brown-greens and yellow-greens rather than in pinks/yellows/reds.
On January 18 2012 03:32 Unkie wrote: Being somewhat red-green colourblind as well I support this. However, I don't think the nuke is the biggest problem. As others have said, the minimap colours need to be customizable - the red and green colour scheme is really hard to deal with sometimes. For instance, I was playing a pvz vs a friend of mine on shattered temple, where he made a nydus worm just behind my mineral line, but even when I consciously looked at the minimap in that area I couldn't see it. I enjoy the jungle/gras tileset, because I prefer lighter maps as opposed to darker maps, but with almost all of the minimap being green and ally colour being a brighter green it can become very hard to distinguish small areas of enermy red on the map.
Don't forget you can turn off the terrain on the minimap, making it black instead of tileset colors (ALT+T).
But listening for the nuke will tell you where its going to land, since there should be a self evident target there. You will need detection anyhow, so once your detector reaches the site, the ghost should be simple to find. I agree with you that I was a bit off when I said it doesnt help at all, but basically, the target area is v large, and pinpointing the area is paramount, after that the exact location should be easy to guess.
I've never been able to see the red dot among some other things like differentiate zerg units when they are stacked. The similar colours of the zerg (brownish colour) looks so much like the color red, or orange depending on their team color. I can sometimes not differentiate between many things it's all jsut a blur of reddish brown stuff. I have good vision so it's not that problem.
I am (like a lot of people) red/green colorblind. I didn't have much trouble in BW, being able to see the nuke dot. But, in SC2 it is extremely hard for myself to be able to quickly spot a nuke. I generally have to scan over my bases two to three times to spot a nuke. The argument that "you should just listen to it" is completely arrogant. If you do not have a color blindness then you shouldn't be saying stupid shit like that.
Similar things happen to me in League of Legends with certain abilities from champions. Luckily, in that case... Riot (officially) added a Red/Green colorblind mode which is awesome!
That's nice that LoL is now implimenting it. I have to imagine it won't be long until SC2 impliments it. WoW has had color blind support for a while.
It's a design flaw and not a very difficult one to fix. It's rather emberassing that a company like Blizzard has not yet fixed this issue.
This is kind of one of those sad threads, though, where you realize how many ignorant assholes visit the website. But also positive in that many also stepped up to support color blind support. I think they did a good job pointing out the abursidity of the other's attempts at reasoning, so I'll abstain from that argument.
On January 18 2012 04:12 dacimvrl wrote: Deuteranomaly, caused by a similar shift in the green retinal receptors, is by far the most common type of color vision deficiency, mildly affecting red–green hue discrimination in 5% of males. It is hereditary and sex-linked.[8]
1. Ppl need to stop pulling *stats/facts* out of their asses.
2. Other types of color-blindness are not affected, because the contrast of green and red..etc. are still pretty strong.
3. Changing the color to purple or colors will affect ppl with Violet-blind condition.
4. This is like asking blizzard to have an option for those with hearing loss. It's a far more common condition than deuteranomaly..etc., mind you. And I am pretty sure most of them dealt with it by changing the options on their end AKA turn the volume up.
5. Adjust your screen calibration, the color saturation and gamma on your end, pblm solved.
Just to note this person disagrees with me but is not a fool, these are good points. I don't want anyone telling me I am just calling anyone with a differing opinion a fool, As I'm not colorblind (actually have unusually sharp eyes) I don't know if this^ would work for them.
Edit: clarification.
There is Blizzard making it go red purple blue purple and who wants to ruin ALL of the colors gamma etc. Making this^ post wrong but not foolish.
On March 27 2009 02:56 nttea wrote: this is my last reply.. was stupid of me to even start getting involved. Most colorblind people will have trouble seeing the dot but CAN see it.
But some absaloutly cant see it on certain materials, as in I have actaully gone into a replays where nukes were being fired and look at the viewpoint of the person that it was being casted on.
See this image? see the number? Color blind people cant, in that they completely cant. Its not difficult its IMPOSIBLE, i even have to take the word of the website that there even is a number.
Given no disadvatage at all to non color blind people why would you opose this at all.
You can open this in a picture editor and increase the saturation and/or play around with the color balance. Eventually I was able to see the number. But i guess its different for everyone.
For the red dot thing, I've never seen one, didn't even know one was supposed to see it. I always guessed where the nuke might be going down, moved some units away and it usually did the job. It would be nice to see it in advance, though 99% of the time its either the worker-line or your main army anyways. Good thing terrans so far don't predict colorblindness and put the nuke where you are likely to retreat to with all your stuff...
On January 18 2012 04:12 dacimvrl wrote: Deuteranomaly, caused by a similar shift in the green retinal receptors, is by far the most common type of color vision deficiency, mildly affecting red–green hue discrimination in 5% of males. It is hereditary and sex-linked.[8]
1. Ppl need to stop pulling *stats/facts* out of their asses.
2. Other types of color-blindness are not affected, because the contrast of green and red..etc. are still pretty strong.
3. Changing the color to purple or colors will affect ppl with Violet-blind condition.
4. This is like asking blizzard to have an option for those with hearing loss. It's a far more common condition than deuteranomaly..etc., mind you. And I am pretty sure most of them dealt with it by changing the options on their end AKA turn the volume up.
5. Adjust your screen calibration, the color saturation and gamma on your end, pblm solved.
This is why I recommend having Ally/Enemy colour settings that are customizable and include the minimap as well. you can already play custom games against the PC and set all the colours - just extend that to apply to ladder and teams just using Ally/Enemy.
1 - I agree, and I think that applies to your post as well. 2 - Everyone is different and everyone gets affected to varying degrees - having customization resolves this issue for most people. If in doubt I think you should see point 1. 3 - See point to 2. 4 - They do - it's called notifications on the left and the right of the screen for stuff like buildings complete etc. The big minimap exploding with boxes when you are attacked are all examples of visual things they've implemented. 5 - It's all relative - you still lose out and cannot get it correctly.
I'll add a counter point to this thread in general: - People that don't have a problem should not make bigotory comments.
On January 18 2012 10:25 Br3ezy wrote: thats really interesting how you can't see that from being colorblind and sucks as well. At least you can see the ghost right?!
Dunno whos arguing against this but it's fairly primitive of blizzard to disclude at the very least a color blind feature. It doesn't affect anyone who isn't color blind, and color blind players are disadvantaged without it. Not that I've stated anything new, I'm merely content to add another supportive opinion.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss36.jpg)
I don't think is fair for the opponent to see the dot, maybe tech to something that helps you get the idea on where the nuke is going to strike. The rush you feel when you hear the nuke message is all that matters, if you see the dot right away it screws up the gameplay imo.
![[image loading]](http://colorvisiontesting.com/berries%20normal.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://colorvisiontesting.com/berries%20color%20deficient.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v298/204/31/559650977/n559650977_727488_7822.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Colorblind4.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Color6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hsWJT.png)
