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Megrim
Australia60 Posts
On September 21 2008 01:34 maybenexttime wrote: MBS Discussion I, II, III, and countless other threads on MBS, macro, and low multi-tasking demand in SC2. Read them before posting such rubbish, please. You didn't actually answer my question though. | ||
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sqwert
United States781 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
Slippy Toad - Starfox 64 | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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Megrim
Australia60 Posts
On September 22 2008 06:24 Archerofaiur wrote: "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 22 2008 12:19 Megrim wrote: Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious. On September 15 2008 05:21 Archerofaiur wrote: One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement. Please read the threads you are posting in. | ||
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SyphllusSteve
2 Posts
I greatly enjoyed reading your post Archerofaiur. It is apparent that a lot of thought went in to your ideas. I am happy to see that people are working to improve Starcraft 2. I only hope that your posts have initiated creativity in people other than me. While I was not agreeable to all of your ideas I felt most of them were a shot in the right direction. I know you requested that we help you improve the ideas that you proposed, but by the time I finished reading your post my mind was already off tinkering with a similar design for the zerg. My thoughts regarding this are as follows….. I decided to replace the tentacles in your idea with arteries. I feel it is fitting because arteries feed blood to the body’s organs and in my design this mechanic would increase the effectiveness of the zerg war machine. The Artery ability is selected from Hatchery/Lair/Hive then another non-hatchery building is selected as the target. A visual effect indicates that an artery has formed between the Hatchery/Lair/Hive and the targeted building. Only one artery may be selected from each Hatchery/Lair/Hive and buildings may only have one artery connected to them at a time. A Hatchery/Lair/Hive may only connect an artery to a building located on the same patch of creep as it. This is a loose bundle of thoughts. I would appreciate any help in organizing and balancing these ideas to create a more solid mechanic. Artery Effect on Buildings From Starcraft: Brood Wars Extractor- The rate at which Vespene Gas is harvested from the Extractor increases. Creep Colony- The rate at which the upgrade from Creep Colonies to Sunken/Spore Colonies takes place is increased. Spawning Pool- While connected to the Hatchery/Lair/Hive there is a chance for an extra Zergling to be spawned from each egg designated to hatch a pair of Zerglings. I am aware that this mechanic is based on chance and pro gamers may not be happy with that. I implore you all to offer suggestions on balancing or replacing this aspect of the mechanic. Evolution Chamber- New evolutions are unlocked. The artery must remain connected to the Evolution Chamber for the duration of the upgrade process. Hydralisk Den- Hydralisks evolve into Lurkers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Hydralisk Den. Queen’s Nest- Drones located near a queen have an increased harvesting rate. Spire/Greater Spire- Mutalisks evolve into Guardians/Devourers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Spire/Greater Spire. Defiler Mound- Increased production rate for a time, then production halts for a similar time. Ultralisk Cavern- Ultralisks take less time to be created. Similar Ideas Unrelated to Macro Nydus Canal- Nydus Canals gain the ability to “burrow.” Spore Colony- The attack speed of the Spore Colony is increased. Sunken Colony- The attack speed of the Sunken Colony is increased. I hope that those of you reading this will think on these ideas (or formulate your own) and suggest how to improve them. | ||
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Megrim
Australia60 Posts
On September 22 2008 12:23 Archerofaiur wrote: Please read the threads you are posting in. So what you're saying is, you haven't thought of anything to actually do with the economy, and i'm entirely correct in guessing as much? Um... congrats? Furthermore, what do you suppose 'psi focusing' actually adds to the game? Because it sure as shit aint' adding "strategic depth". | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On September 22 2008 12:56 Megrim wrote: So what you're saying is, you haven't thought of anything to actually do with the economy, and i'm entirely correct in guessing as much? Um... congrats? Furthermore, what do you suppose 'psi focusing' actually adds to the game? Because it sure as shit aint' adding "strategic depth". The funny thing is that Archerofaiur here explained why his idea has nothing to do with increasing Macro. Generally the idea to expand on the "Protoss Buildings need energy" premise by giving them actuall energy and stuff to use it on is not bad. But in the form he presents it here it´s a "Thesis to improve Building related Micro". Suprisingly he already has a idea what the game needs (or at least what Blizzard trys to accomplish): More involving economy. Economy in SC:BW is VERY simple and would be a joke if it wasn´t so difficult to execute while handling a competent enemy. | ||
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Megrim
Australia60 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
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SlickR12345
Macedonia408 Posts
damn | ||
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