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On May 21 2008 19:45 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2008 19:10 frankbg wrote:On May 21 2008 18:59 lololol wrote:
Your argument why CS is requires more skill and is more competitive compared to SC isn't even an argument, but pure BS. Popularity among players doesn't have a direct connection to skill(and it's more of a reverse dependancy, because harder games are played by fewer people, an obvious fact), or you want to tell me the Sims requires the most skills of all games, because it is the most popular?
The Sims > CS! I learned a new thing today! Can you not read? Have you not read ANYTHING else but that argument or are you so blinded by your pre-conceived notions that you can't debate any other argument? You basically prove my whole point that you guys don't know enough about CS to judge it. The whole popularity issue wasn't even something I brought up, I was merely replying to something someone else brought up. I never said that this was the reason it required more skills. Don't put words in my mouth. Also, where do you hold stats that show more people play the Sims than CS. Also do you compare the time spent? People playing the Sims once a month aren't really gamers in my book. Seriously, stop making arguments out of your asshole. This is getting really irritating. I would quit the debating because it's offtopic but some of you guys just won't drop it. If you're gonna try to counter-argument, at least don't act like a bigoted retard. What is your SC background to prove you know enough about SC to judge it? Yes, you should quit, because the only bigoted retard here is you. You don't even know what an argument is, and personal attacks are definitely not, they just show you're an idiot.
You stated that my argument was Bullshit.
You didn't read my other posts/arguments and targeted a single point I made about popularity, twisted it in a way that wasn't intended to try and make it look ridiculous (Sims vs CS argument, cmon, you're being a huge flamebait there).
And the fact that my initial polite arguments have been replied to with insulting stuff. I didn't start the personnal attacks, the blind fanboys did.
Edit: By the way, I never tried to belittle the skill required in SC but merely tried to correct the shit ton of fallacies that were being spread about CS. You guys are the ones who are trying to belittle a very good game, a game that pioneered esports as much as SC did (probably more, considering CS is worldwide and SC is restricted to a single country).
Oh and Skew's last post pretty much /thread.
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Yes it is BS, it's not even an argument.
I read all the posts in the thread and most of it was replied to by other posters. I haven't twisted anything, it's written pretty clear, you're just making things up again. I didn't try to make it look ridiculous, it IS ridiculous, seriously go read it!
You didn't reply about popularity, you mentioned it yourself when you quoted a question about your SC background to steer away from the question itself, which you still haven't answered, because you have none and basically shot yourself in the foot by complaining that others don't know much about CS, but you say things like "I have played at some of the highest levels in Counter-Strike and I will state that it requires more than SC".
"It doesn't have to apply to me" isn't much of an argument and yes, your arguments and statement are pure BS.
I don't care what others replied to you and I'm not the one responsible for that, so you have no point again.
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Osaka27174 Posts
The next person to make a post about SC vs CS will be banned. It is not the topic of this thread and only leads to flaming. If you have any lingering arguments, read Skew's post 5 times.
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On May 21 2008 19:47 Skew wrote:
Now, lets all stop talking about this and go make a WoW player feel like an asshat.
I lol'd
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i agree with everything skerp said. a cal m player a few post back. peace
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Let's go back to the maintopic here shall we?
First things first. Several gaming clubs? ACE was a shure thing, that should not come to any suprise for anyone here. The whole thing stands and falls with boxer.
Then we have hanbit who won't get to distribute starcraft 2 and T3 Entertainment, an online game developer. Imagine EA had a battlefield2 progaming team and it's successor battlefield3 get's distributed by Activision. That's like a kick in the face.
But even if we take those two, a proteam leaving is not in any way a sign of colapse of the whole fucking industry.
Now the whole viewership ratings. It looks like it does not take the streaming services into consideration. I would want to know exactly how many people are watching starcraft over streaming and what shows/events are leading.
Next is the Starcraft 2 "Problem". People know that it's coming and this may be good news (depence on if it can replace starcraft) for the gaming aspect but it shure as heck does no good for the competition right now. Beacause it slightly takes away the glory of the up and coming finals and viewers are quick to leave the scene and conserve their memorys of the "glory days". I think blizzard did a great job with starcraft, but they need to be carefull how they inject it to the industry and don't just slam it on the table, demand license fees and get the biggest piece of the pie from an industry that may have a blizzard game as a basis, but it shure as heck build the major part with it's own hands.
10 years might seem long to some of us, but for a "competition & entertainment" programm it's not that long. 400 progamers, 12 teams, 3 leagues plus various events and tournaments. All that needs to be organised and presented in a proper way. What the industry tough does not realise is that in every competition be it soccer or f1, etc, the entertainment that it generates is way more important. That's why the masses watch world championships, wait for a car to crash in the most crazy way or wait for the knock-out in boxing. Now back in the "glory days" players themself provided entertainment by their play alone. But sooner or later, as perverse as it may sound, the players need to go out and merchandise themself as a person.
They can't sit in their houses all day and act like they're part of an olympic team. The whole reason why boxer has such a celebrity value is because he actively took part in the whole growing process of the industry and didn't just sit there expecting it to be a never ending dream. The whole reason why reach and yellow are still progamers is because they have build up a celebrity value. I think new players do a great job by playing the game, but that ship has sailed, that just consumes money nothing else.
Why do you think the most beloved and cheered athletes are allways the ones who did more than just play the game for themself? Think about the one sumo fighter (forgot his name) who slaps his head and screams all the time even tough it has nothing to do with the sport (who just happens to be extremly conservative). People love him like crazy. The fact that he's not top notch of the competition is secondary for entertainment.
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(1.) What is your SC background to prove you know enough about SC to judge it?
(2.) Yes, you should quit, because the only bigoted retard here is you.
(3.) You don't even know what an argument is, and personal attacks are definitely not, they just show you're an idiot.
1 and 2 are made incredibly Ironic by 3.
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the most disheartening news here is about the ACE team being disbanded. Not that I thought it could keep going forever, but that having created it would have been added to Lim Yo Hwan's legacy as a progamer. Now it just seems like they did him a favor.
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The pro-gaming scene lacks drama at the moment because it lacks a bonjwa. Ever since the fall of Savior there's been no story to dress up the game. Players just drift around. When Savior reigned, the game was drenched in anticipation, because an entire generation of Terran players (Hwasin, Iris, to some extent FBH) were training like crazy to bring him down and bring the bonjwa crown back under a Terran head, and Savior knew it, and was fighting like crazy to delay his fall. Savior/Iris on Arkanoid basically summed up the state of the game; both sides being visibly pushed to the edge of their abilities; a relentless Terran assault pitted against Savior's nearly inhuman endurance; the palpable sense that something greater than just two players, or even two races, was being played out before your eyes. After dispatching the former bonjwa Nada in the following week to take his first OSL title, all Savior had to do was crush some no-name MBC Protoss and his domination would be absolute.
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On May 21 2008 19:57 frankbg wrote:
Edit: By the way, I never tried to belittle the skill required in SC but merely tried to correct the shit ton of fallacies that were being spread about CS.
Oh really? What about this statement here?
On May 21 2008 11:04 frankbg wrote:
Actually, I will get alot of flames for this, but I have played at some of the highest levels in Counter-Strike and I will state that it requires more than SC. I know people who have played for 9-10 years and are merely middle-tier players (could compare to C/B on iccup).
It would've been valid only if you had said "I have played BOTH games at a high level". You shouldn't have even posted if you weren't going to follow the topic anyways. Thanks for derailing an important thread in an SC forum into a discussion about CS. Anyways, back on topic now.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 21 2008 13:34 HeavOnEarth wrote:I decided instead of being in the Star craft declining thread, it should have one of it's own, seeing how it was already 4 pages in length when i visited it. There was a drift into an argument in the declining SC thread Over Which is the better game, SC or Counter Strike. Im not implying counterstrike was a horrific game; it's perfectly fine in it's own right, What i will not have is people asserting the fact that CS> SC.5 Reasons SC> CS. First of all, Of course the CS people will argue that CS> SC in popularity Wow, a game you have to pay for, (steam account) And actually has sponsoring? People can actually play all day and make money WHOAA. THAT MEANS YOU GUYS CAN ACTUALLY GET GOOD AT A GAME WHEREAS we actually play this game for fun. If you are going to argue that top tier players play the game for fun, you don't even know the half of playing CS competitively. Starcraft isn't some glamor sport, despite the popularity in korea, It's graphics are pretty horrid in comparison to real day games whereas im pretty sure you first got into counter strike because everything was shiny and neat and set up cause you payed monthly for your steam account.
What game is BETTER starcraft or counterstrike?Starcraft, by far. Counterstrike can only be coupled with pathetic society and capitalism 1. Starcraft has LAN latency , Chaos, iCCup , for middle tier even low skilled players have easy access to this. 1. CounterStrike On the other hand, has FPS GG Latency ping. People dont even LEAD or aim anymore, they just spray an ak at headshot level and hope . Please dont even try to argue that cause u know that's what you do vs laggers. 2.Starcraft is actually FAST , Apm please. 2. counterstrike ,"Oh look i can buy a gun and have everything set up with 5 buttons" Let's spam "a" and "d" and then throw a nade and crouch and jump what is that like 7 keys in a minute where starcraft can be 7 keys in a second? 3. Ok they both have mind games, Since i dont play at that tier of CS i wont go into that. (obviously SC>CS however ) 4. Multitasking. If u cant do that in starcraft you lose so hard, so easily. 4. Woww i have a thing called radar it tells me where everything is , "getting shanked is considered noob" where as in SC a sneaky play like that, reflects the skill of the OTHER person cleverly timing his distractions and feints while dropping or harassing something important. What do u have in CS" Ohh I SEE YOU THAR HI. YOU SEE ME TOO LOL. I could just go on and on, but NOT going to play a game that's as stupid as you look, (CS supporters) , I'm rather going to play 1;1 matches, unlike some people who decide that 1;1 is not a test of skill Im pretty sure this goes against the "10 commandments" But no one puts down star craft below another game; especially one of 2nd class caliber such as CS Please if im so wrong, retort me, give me your honest point, or do the committed counterstrike people have a trepidation of speaking out.
Dude, don't.
This will only start a flamewar because you are dissing CS pretty hard -_-
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 21 2008 20:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
The next person to make a post about SC vs CS will be banned. It is not the topic of this thread and only leads to flaming. If you have any lingering arguments, read Skew's post 5 times.
Was just about to make this post -_- Damn things blew up while I was sleeping.
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I really hope that SC2 is the start of a new era in South korea.
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On May 21 2008 19:04 JoxxOr wrote:
This is just like the 2003-2004 debate where everyone thought that esport SC in korea was going downhill...
Just because a sponsor who have sponsored korean eSports in 7-8 years with a team and OSL's don't want to do it anymore does not mean that korean esport will die >.<
i agree. what if e-sports loses some if its followers? they'll have 70% of people in korea instead of 75%??
but the part about blizzard needing to do a damn good job on sc2 is absolutely true.
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On May 21 2008 19:57 frankbg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2008 19:45 lololol wrote:On May 21 2008 19:10 frankbg wrote:On May 21 2008 18:59 lololol wrote:
Your argument why CS is requires more skill and is more competitive compared to SC isn't even an argument, but pure BS. Popularity among players doesn't have a direct connection to skill(and it's more of a reverse dependancy, because harder games are played by fewer people, an obvious fact), or you want to tell me the Sims requires the most skills of all games, because it is the most popular?
The Sims > CS! I learned a new thing today! Can you not read? Have you not read ANYTHING else but that argument or are you so blinded by your pre-conceived notions that you can't debate any other argument? You basically prove my whole point that you guys don't know enough about CS to judge it. The whole popularity issue wasn't even something I brought up, I was merely replying to something someone else brought up. I never said that this was the reason it required more skills. Don't put words in my mouth. Also, where do you hold stats that show more people play the Sims than CS. Also do you compare the time spent? People playing the Sims once a month aren't really gamers in my book. Seriously, stop making arguments out of your asshole. This is getting really irritating. I would quit the debating because it's offtopic but some of you guys just won't drop it. If you're gonna try to counter-argument, at least don't act like a bigoted retard. What is your SC background to prove you know enough about SC to judge it? Yes, you should quit, because the only bigoted retard here is you. You don't even know what an argument is, and personal attacks are definitely not, they just show you're an idiot. You stated that my argument was Bullshit. You didn't read my other posts/arguments and targeted a single point I made about popularity, twisted it in a way that wasn't intended to try and make it look ridiculous (Sims vs CS argument, cmon, you're being a huge flamebait there). And the fact that my initial polite arguments have been replied to with insulting stuff. I didn't start the personnal attacks, the blind fanboys did. Edit: By the way, I never tried to belittle the skill required in SC but merely tried to correct the shit ton of fallacies that were being spread about CS. You guys are the ones who are trying to belittle a very good game, a game that pioneered esports as much as SC did (probably more, considering CS is worldwide and SC is restricted to a single country). Oh and Skew's last post pretty much /thread.
I have played both RTS and FPS at the highest level so i know what takes more skill!
I used to play Starcraft 10 hours a day for many years and i got the chance to be apart of the first ever WCG. Before i left i played some Q3 for fun like 1 hour a day maybe. I had no one to practice with so i only played some random 1on1 games. When i got to korea i played Q3 with the people competing in the Q3 competition. This was when Q3 was really big and the CPL focused only on Q3. Let's just say i beat quake legend dOOMER and python who i belive later finished 3rd place in the tournament. I had to devote my entire life to be at the highest level in starcraft and with Q3 all it took was some fun 1on1 games now and then. I have played CS to and it's easier then Q3 but with more teamplay. No way in HELL CS takes more skill then starcraft.
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On May 21 2008 20:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
The next person to make a post about SC vs CS will be banned. It is not the topic of this thread and only leads to flaming. If you have any lingering arguments, read Skew's post 5 times.
Thanks, it sucks to see a good discussion thread get hijacked and ruined.
Edit* It looks like people are still at it even after your warning 
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Here's an idea about how to reinvigorate professional starcraft:
add a new format of gaming. Like, make SCV Football a sport. UMS's, Team Melee, 3v3s, 4v4s, 1v3s, things like that. Also add small stakes betting to the mix and you'd probably see some more interest. Just keep the mafia out.
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Are you serious? DotA is ruining WC3. ;;
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On May 22 2008 02:00 maybenexttime wrote:
Are you serious? DotA is ruining WC3. ;;
i meant as stupid little stunts not like actual sports T_T to ya know have more of a comedy thing into it.
Better Yet, make episodes like Real Life Progamer or some sort of a progaming movie, like Remember the Lecaf or Boxer I/II/III/IV/V/VI, etc.
that would give mbc/ogn more time to put those kinds of things on 
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EPT
