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Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions.
In all three runs from TaeJa combined a grand total of 16 players qualified through Open Qualifier. 16. Half the field of one HSC at the time qualified over the span of THREE tournaments.
TaeJa was invited all three times btw.
Wanna know the funniest thing? In Serrals 4x-run the grand total of invited players was 30(!). Because the last of the four he won was an EPT event and therefore had to have qualifiers.
Sooooo...want to rethink that part about whos run is more "legit"?
(sorry for the offtopic btw, but how often do you get the luxury that someone is wrong on both sides of the argument?)
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No trolling here.
Not even MLG did seeding for sc2 tournaments players paid money to play in.
You are trying to ensure your friends don't get eliminated early. That's the purpose of seeding. You are literally trying to give your progamer friends an advantage. It's uncalled for. Why would you need to give even someone like Maru a bracket advantage? Even you implied he would have no problem making it to the second group stage. So then why do it? It's because you are trying to influence the results of said tournament. That's not fair play. What's next? Match fixing?
This is as bad as how the NASL was decided and ran. And we all know how that ended up. ENTIRELY DEFUNCT. I suggest you take a lesson out of history and learn from it mr historian.
If your pro gamer friends are that much better than everyone else, then why do you need to create rules that make sure they advance to group stage 2 without merit in a game based entirely on merit? Why do you feel the need to try to influence the results of a tournament? I bet you can't answer that without deflecting.
I mean shit, your already wasting a bunch of money on their travel and hotels, why do you need to stack the odds in their favor in a game based solely on merit.
Is this your first time running a tournament ever? Are they your progamer friends? Or are you just afraid they won't want to play in your tournament if you don't give them an advantage over paying customers or non-established names?
"oh other sports do it too!" Those other sports only seed the previous winner or both previous finalists, not an entire eigth of the tournament bracket. And those other real major sports aren't charging money to players to play in the event. Wake up man. You are doing this entirely wrong. Your rules are anti-competitive and anti-community. Do you think this will equate to sustainable growth?
To those in the scene that wonder why there hasn't been much new blood in the last 10 years for arguably one of the greatest games ever made that also happens to be free to play, It's specifically because of this approach to running tournaments. Players can easily read through the lines. They see that the same certain players are chosen and given a sizeable advantage in tournaments over the rest of the playerbase repeatedly over and over and over. Most people just leave without saying anything. I'm telling you what others won't.
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On August 26 2026 00:29 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2026 19:08 ejozl wrote:
It's pretty different that you pay to play, so for fairness sake you should know beforehand if there are gonna be invites and that they are advantaged.
Seeding, imo also should be based on some score, previous results, else it becomes who the organizers prefer. It's not something new, hsc does this, but it's something that discredits integrity of competition, for sure.
Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions. Eerm, no. The vast majority of HSCs participants have always been invited, including Tae, who was invited to all three tournaments that he won. EDIT: So further looking back at the participants... I'd value Serral's 4 wins in a row higher than TaeJa's 3. Show nested quote +On August 25 2026 01:59 Duplicity85 wrote:
Why would you need to give players who shouldn't have any problem making it out of stage 1 free walk overs into the second group stage? It's a game of skill.
IT'S A PAID TOURNAMENT LOL
You are using something other than skill to determine who advances to a certain point in a paid tournament for a game based entirely on skill. Are you telling me you don't see anything wrong with that? The whole point of is to win the match so you can advance. Not give away free wins. That's not competitive gaming. That's rigging a tournament to make it easier for certain folks to land in the cash. But like you implied with maru, it shouldn't be an issue for him to win right? So then why give them free walk overs into the next group stage? It's clear bracket rigging to create an advantage for certain players.
Also, You don't mention at all in the tournament registration that at least 8 players(invites) get a walkover directly into the second group stage. How do you think your other participants are going to react when they find out pro players are being given a tournament bracket advantage over them for no reason at all other than to make it easier for them to win money? What about the people that were going to sign up as an attendee whether it be as a player or spectator? Have you thought any of this through? Or did someone else put you up to doing this?
Just to be sure: Wasn't this known to you guys from the beginning? I get that there are several advantages and reasonings for laying out the tournament like that but to be honest, I understand that you would know in advance. Nevertheless, if you start in the Ro128 and prize money gets you your entry fee back at Ro32, your chances to make money are better off if the Pros are seeded directly into the Ro16, for example. It protects you, rather than hurts you.
No. It wasn't known from the beginning. It wasn't in the registration. It wasn't in the rules. It was revealed in this thread when I asked.
Seeding does not protect players who are not seeded, At all. It only creates an advantage for players who are seeded. A)It makes it easier for the seeded player to make it farther in the tournament. They have to play less games. B)They also get an easier time to land in the cash.
He's trying to influence the results of a tournament based on merit and it hasn't even been played yet.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 26 2026 03:22 Duplicity85 wrote:
No trolling here.
Not even MLG did seeding for sc2 tournaments players paid money to play in.
You are trying to ensure your friends don't get eliminated early. That's the purpose of seeding. You are literally trying to give your progamer friends an advantage. It's uncalled for. Why would you need to give even someone like Maru a bracket advantage? Even you implied he would have no problem making it to the second group stage. So then why do it? It's because you are trying to influence the results of said tournament. That's not fair play. What's next? Match fixing?
This is as bad as how the NASL was decided and ran. And we all know how that ended up. ENTIRELY DEFUNCT. I suggest you take a lesson out of history and learn from it mr historian.
If your pro gamer friends are that much better than everyone else, then why do you need to create rules that make sure they advance to group stage 2 without merit in a game based entirely on merit? Why do you feel the need to try to influence the results of a tournament? I bet you can't answer that without deflecting.
I mean shit, your already wasting a bunch of money on their travel and hotels, why do you need to stack the odds in their favor in a game based solely on merit.
Is this your first time running a tournament ever? Are they your progamer friends? Or are you just afraid they won't want to play in your tournament if you don't give them an advantage over paying customers or non-established names?
"oh other sports do it too!" Those other sports only seed the previous winner or both previous finalists. And those other sports aren't charging money to players to play in the event. Wake up man. You are doing this entirely wrong. Your rules are anti-competitive and anti-community. Do you think this will equate to sustainable growth?
MLG did and always planned to have seeding for sc2. Only the open bracket had none (which was also the only "bracket" for the 2010 events).
The seeding is being done through Aligulac, which is the least subjective way to go about it.
It makes negative sense to hold a sc2 tournament 16 years into the game's life without some form of seeding, especially one where several of the top players are attending.
It has nothing to do with making it easier for X players to advance, it's an attempt to bring a quality product to something that might not even reach their roi.
It's not bad to be a contrarian but at least have some compelling points.
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On August 26 2026 03:22 Duplicity85 wrote:
No trolling here.
Not even MLG did seeding for sc2 tournaments players paid money to play in.
You are trying to ensure your friends don't get eliminated early. That's the purpose of seeding. You are literally trying to give your progamer friends an advantage. It's uncalled for. Why would you need to give even someone like Maru a bracket advantage? Even you implied he would have no problem making it to the second group stage. So then why do it? It's because you are trying to influence the results of said tournament. That's not fair play. What's next? Match fixing?
This is as bad as how the NASL was decided and ran. And we all know how that ended up. ENTIRELY DEFUNCT. I suggest you take a lesson out of history and learn from it mr historian.
If your pro gamer friends are that much better than everyone else, then why do you need to create rules that make sure they advance to group stage 2 without merit in a game based entirely on merit? Why do you feel the need to try to influence the results of a tournament? I bet you can't answer that without deflecting.
I mean shit, your already wasting a bunch of money on their travel and hotels, why do you need to stack the odds in their favor in a game based solely on merit.
Is this your first time running a tournament ever? Are they your progamer friends? Or are you just afraid they won't want to play in your tournament if you don't give them an advantage over paying customers or non-established names?
"oh other sports do it too!" Those other sports only seed the previous winner or both previous finalists, not an entire eigth of the tournament bracket. And those other real major sports aren't charging money to players to play in the event. Wake up man. You are doing this entirely wrong. Your rules are anti-competitive and anti-community. Do you think this will equate to sustainable growth?
To those in the scene that wonder why there hasn't been much new blood in the last 10 years for arguably one of the greatest games ever made that also happens to be free to play, It's specifically because of this approach to running tournaments. Players can easily read through the lines. They see that the same certain players are chosen and given a sizeable advantage in tournaments over the rest of the playerbase repeatedly over and over and over. Most people just leave without saying anything. I'm telling you what others won't.
There is literally 0 reason to waste Maru’s time playing against you and your buddies lmfao.
Anyway you already said you’re charging back the payment via your bank. Godspeed, and good luck with that!
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On August 26 2026 04:30 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2026 03:22 Duplicity85 wrote:
No trolling here.
Not even MLG did seeding for sc2 tournaments players paid money to play in.
You are trying to ensure your friends don't get eliminated early. That's the purpose of seeding. You are literally trying to give your progamer friends an advantage. It's uncalled for. Why would you need to give even someone like Maru a bracket advantage? Even you implied he would have no problem making it to the second group stage. So then why do it? It's because you are trying to influence the results of said tournament. That's not fair play. What's next? Match fixing?
This is as bad as how the NASL was decided and ran. And we all know how that ended up. ENTIRELY DEFUNCT. I suggest you take a lesson out of history and learn from it mr historian.
If your pro gamer friends are that much better than everyone else, then why do you need to create rules that make sure they advance to group stage 2 without merit in a game based entirely on merit? Why do you feel the need to try to influence the results of a tournament? I bet you can't answer that without deflecting.
I mean shit, your already wasting a bunch of money on their travel and hotels, why do you need to stack the odds in their favor in a game based solely on merit.
Is this your first time running a tournament ever? Are they your progamer friends? Or are you just afraid they won't want to play in your tournament if you don't give them an advantage over paying customers or non-established names?
"oh other sports do it too!" Those other sports only seed the previous winner or both previous finalists. And those other sports aren't charging money to players to play in the event. Wake up man. You are doing this entirely wrong. Your rules are anti-competitive and anti-community. Do you think this will equate to sustainable growth?
MLG did and always planned to have seeding for sc2. Only the open bracket had none (which was also the only "bracket" for the 2010 events). The seeding is being done through Aligulac, which is the least subjective way to go about it. It makes negative sense to hold a sc2 tournament 16 years into the game's life without some form of seeding, especially one where several of the top players are attending. It has nothing to do with making it easier for X players to advance, it's an attempt to bring a quality product to something that might not even reach their roi. It's not bad to be a contrarian but at least have some compelling points.
Basically impossible to have good points to support this argument of his.
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Hyrule19264 Posts
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This chat is wild. Here, let me try taking a shot at what you should have written.
Thanks for spending your own money, time and effort on something you love and that brings joy to others. It's people like you who are keeping this game alive and are the reason events like this exist after being abandoned by the major corporations.. The tournament isn't for me so I won't be attending, but good luck and I hope it goes well.
PS. I was going to ask for my money back, but then I realized I didn't read the details at sign up and there are no refunds. My bad.
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On August 26 2026 04:57 Herringbone wrote:
This chat is wild. Here, let me try taking a shot at what you should have written.
Thanks for spending your own money, time and effort on something you love and that brings joy to others. It's people like you who are keeping this game alive and are the reason events like this exist after being abandoned by the major corporations.. The tournament isn't for me so I won't be attending, but good luck and I hope it goes well.
PS. I was going to ask for my money back, but then I realized I didn't read the details at sign up and there are no refunds. My bad.
BUT WHAT ABOUT SUSTAINABLE GROWTH????????????
Hey StarcraftHistorian (this is a weird nickname to call someone by...), I hope you can have more of a giggle about this clearly very special guy in this thread, so it doesn't bother you too much. Enjoy the tournament you probably put quite a lot of work and money into and enjoy the privilege that you "provoked" probably the dumbest take I have read on Liquipedia in years <3
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On August 26 2026 05:04 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2026 04:57 Herringbone wrote:
This chat is wild. Here, let me try taking a shot at what you should have written.
Thanks for spending your own money, time and effort on something you love and that brings joy to others. It's people like you who are keeping this game alive and are the reason events like this exist after being abandoned by the major corporations.. The tournament isn't for me so I won't be attending, but good luck and I hope it goes well.
PS. I was going to ask for my money back, but then I realized I didn't read the details at sign up and there are no refunds. My bad. BUT WHAT ABOUT SUSTAINABLE GROWTH???????????? Hey StarcraftHistorian (this is a weird nickname to call someone by...), I hope you can have more of a giggle about this clearly very special guy in this thread, so it doesn't bother you too much. Enjoy the tournament you probably put quite a lot of work and money into and enjoy the privilege that you "provoked" probably the dumbest take I have read on Liquipedia in years <3
Working hard to make sustainable growth a real aspect of this as well, we’ll see if we can get there!
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The hilariousness is not lost on me lmao. I shouldn’t even engage these jokers, but I can’t resist sometimes.
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On August 26 2026 02:47 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions. In all three runs from TaeJa combined a grand total of 16 players qualified through Open Qualifier. 16. Half the field of one HSC at the time qualified over the span of THREE tournaments. TaeJa was invited all three times btw. Wanna know the funniest thing? In Serrals 4x-run the grand total of invited players was 30(!). Because the last of the four he won was an EPT event and therefore had to have qualifiers. Sooooo...want to rethink that part about whos run is more "legit"? (sorry for the offtopic btw, but how often do you get the luxury that someone is wrong on both sides of the argument?)
It's not about the amount of qualified players, but what the tournament represents. Though invited, taeja beat the best from kr, eu, us, sea, through this abstraction taeja is arguably the best player at this given moment. Whereas without qualifiers you can always make the argument that some unknown russian would've been the best player.
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United States1970 Posts
On August 27 2026 19:22 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2026 02:47 Balnazza wrote:Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions. In all three runs from TaeJa combined a grand total of 16 players qualified through Open Qualifier. 16. Half the field of one HSC at the time qualified over the span of THREE tournaments. TaeJa was invited all three times btw. Wanna know the funniest thing? In Serrals 4x-run the grand total of invited players was 30(!). Because the last of the four he won was an EPT event and therefore had to have qualifiers. Sooooo...want to rethink that part about whos run is more "legit"? (sorry for the offtopic btw, but how often do you get the luxury that someone is wrong on both sides of the argument?) It's not about the amount of qualified players, but what the tournament represents. Though invited, taeja beat the best from kr, eu, us, sea, through this abstraction taeja is arguably the best player at this given moment. Whereas without qualifiers you can always make the argument that some unknown russian would've been the best player.
Classic Stuchiu vs Mizenhauer scenario.
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Hopefully Maru don't get too jet-lagged.
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On August 27 2026 19:22 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2026 02:47 Balnazza wrote:Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions. In all three runs from TaeJa combined a grand total of 16 players qualified through Open Qualifier. 16. Half the field of one HSC at the time qualified over the span of THREE tournaments. TaeJa was invited all three times btw. Wanna know the funniest thing? In Serrals 4x-run the grand total of invited players was 30(!). Because the last of the four he won was an EPT event and therefore had to have qualifiers. Sooooo...want to rethink that part about whos run is more "legit"? (sorry for the offtopic btw, but how often do you get the luxury that someone is wrong on both sides of the argument?) It's not about the amount of qualified players, but what the tournament represents. Though invited, taeja beat the best from kr, eu, us, sea, through this abstraction taeja is arguably the best player at this given moment. Whereas without qualifiers you can always make the argument that some unknown russian would've been the best player.
Several Bo3 rounds in a qualifier can absolutely eliminate the strongest player, precisely because a Bo3 has a higher degree of variance than a longer group stage followed by Bo5s. A player can have a bad matchup, get cheesed, face a tough opponent he might win against in a Bo5 or Bo7 final or simply have one bad series and be out.
So if the goal is to establish who is actually the best player, there's a pretty strong argument that a longer tournament format is a better test of that than a short qualifier who is held weeks in advance, where form might even change as well (which of course would be a logistical nightmare, especially for offline events though) .
The irony is that the qualifier doesn't really eliminate the "unknown Russian might secretly be the best player" problem. It can just reverse it: the unknown Russian might eliminate the actual best player before he ever gets to prove himself against the other top players in longer series.
I'd therefore distinguish between identifying the strongest field and identifying the best player once that field has been assembled. Invitations can or cannot arguably be better for the former (are the right players invited? did they accept the invitation?), while the group stage/playoffs are what determine the latter, especially the longer the series go. I think it is no coincidence that Serral won 5 of 7 PiG Stys he attended, given it is a tournament with longer series. Longer series obviously don't eliminate variance, but they give the stronger player more opportunities for their skill to assert itself.
So if I was tasked to find the best StarCraft 2 player at any given date, I'd invite the top x of each ladder, the top x of Aligulac if they haven't been covered by the former and then have big groups, followed by long series. That limits variance and encompasses all relevant players (unless there is a superstar who only plays non-ladder, non-professional SC2, which I find highly unlikely).
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On August 27 2026 19:22 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2026 02:47 Balnazza wrote:Serral's 4 hsc wins in a row, are not at all the same as taeja's 3 hsc wins in a row. Serral and others were invited, whereas taeja's were qualifier based, meaning there's a potential gsl caliber qualifier going into it, and from many regions. In all three runs from TaeJa combined a grand total of 16 players qualified through Open Qualifier. 16. Half the field of one HSC at the time qualified over the span of THREE tournaments. TaeJa was invited all three times btw. Wanna know the funniest thing? In Serrals 4x-run the grand total of invited players was 30(!). Because the last of the four he won was an EPT event and therefore had to have qualifiers. Sooooo...want to rethink that part about whos run is more "legit"? (sorry for the offtopic btw, but how often do you get the luxury that someone is wrong on both sides of the argument?) It's not about the amount of qualified players, but what the tournament represents. Though invited, taeja beat the best from kr, eu, us, sea, through this abstraction taeja is arguably the best player at this given moment. Whereas without qualifiers you can always make the argument that some unknown russian would've been the best player.
That's just crap, sorry. TaeJa beat all the top players who WANTED to attend. Same is true for Serral. Or do you honestly think in 2018, when Serral won his first one, Take didn't invite Maru because he wanted to have uThermal and souL? No, of course not. Maru didn't want to play, neither did TY, so they weren't there. Qualifier wouldn't have changed anything about that.
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This is so hype!!!! See you all in Philly!!!!
Sad to these haters in the thread. SH you are awesome for organizing this. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
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On August 28 2026 11:52 rwala wrote:
This is so hype!!!! See you all in Philly!!!!
Sad to these haters in the thread. SH you are awesome for organizing this. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
<3
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EPT
