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Pelloth99
Poland20 Posts
On July 27 2026 18:43 snakedoctor_sc2 wrote: And Protoss' defining feature was warpgate and yet here we are Warpgate should have the ability to freely warp around the map, it's literally in its name ! | ||
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tigera6
3516 Posts
On July 27 2026 17:29 Elentos wrote: I think that's just too harsh of a nerf in a vacuum. Abduct is 9 range, Fungal 10 and you're going to need to have the ghosts closer to the frontlines where it's more likely they get hit by the broodlings or by ling/bane or even by your own splash. It'll be much easier for Zerg to punish Terran, but Terran will struggle to retaliate at all. Even if you force a retreat, the ghosts won't get in range. To be fair, EMP is the counter to spell caster, not Snipe, so as long as EMP range stay the same then its theoretically not a bad thing. I would make Snipe range shorter but lower the Energy back to 50, cannot be canceled nor run away from as long as they have vision of the target, damage can be adjusted to 100-125 range. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 27 2026 19:44 tigera6 wrote: To be fair, EMP is the counter to spell caster, not Snipe, so as long as EMP range stay the same then its theoretically not a bad thing. I would make Snipe range shorter but lower the Energy back to 50, cannot be canceled nor run away from as long as they have vision of the target, damage can be adjusted to 100-125 range. That's mostly the theory though. In reality it's better to Snipe them because it forces them to rebuild the unit and a dead spellcaster can't have enough leftover energy to still cast a spell during a fight. If you EMP a viper on your side of the map it comes back like half a minute later with full energy. It's not like in TvP either where EMP is useful against everything it can hit even if it's just zealots. Again though, I'm only saying this change is too much in a vacuum. It would have to be compensated somewhere else if you can only use Snipe against ultras or in fights you're already winning. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3549 Posts
Fungal doesn't counter snipe anymore, so the interaction is, can ghost kill the enemy before they die themselves. Never say die - with infestors neural could be a counter as well, though EMP wins the range battle. | ||
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Slydie
2007 Posts
On July 27 2026 23:32 ejozl wrote: If abduct is used to cancel snipe that is an interaction that I would want to encourage, this can be countered by being under thor/turret, or emp'ing. Imo, emp should be 1.75 size or something a little bigger and it should completely wipe the energy instead of only 100, nut should only deal 60 shields dmg. Better vs. energy units, but similar strength or slightly worse vs. shields. Fungal doesn't counter snipe anymore, so the interaction is, can ghost kill the enemy before they die themselves. Never say die - with infestors neural could be a counter as well, though EMP wins the range battle. Zerg is in such an amazing place right now, and you still complain? Terran needs ways to win, you know. You don't like ghosts? Do some offracing and try to build and control an "op" ghost army, then come back and tell me your results. | ||
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Athenau
589 Posts
On July 27 2026 23:32 ejozl wrote: If abduct is used to cancel snipe that is an interaction that I would want to encourage, this can be countered by being under thor/turret, or emp'ing. Imo, emp should be 1.75 size or something a little bigger and it should completely wipe the energy instead of only 100, nut should only deal 60 shields dmg. Better vs. energy units, but similar strength or slightly worse vs. shields. Fungal doesn't counter snipe anymore, so the interaction is, can ghost kill the enemy before they die themselves. Never say die - with infestors neural could be a counter as well, though EMP wins the range battle. Abduct is a 75 energy, 9 range, effective instant kill ability on a fast, flying caster that also has the ability to massively increase its energy regeneration for free. If you proposed snipe change was implemented, abduct would absolutely need to be toned down. There needs to be a way to actually punish vipers rather than just forcing them to disengage. It's better to keep snipe as is, and move EMP (which would be buffed to drain all energy) to the Raven, which solves two problems at once (the ghost doing too many things, and the Raven being useless). | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1361 Posts
On July 28 2026 06:14 Slydie wrote: Zerg is in such an amazing place right now, and you still complain? Terran needs ways to win, you know. You don't like ghosts? Do some offracing and try to build and control an "op" ghost army, then come back and tell me your results. Serral is in an amazing place. That short PTR time with the inject aside Zerg is struggling quite a bit. And you are still missing the point: It is not about "lul Ghost OP plx nerf". It's about one unit doing everything. Tone done the Ghost and give Terran something else to play with - or make Terran much more vulnerable before the Mass Ghost Stage, though that can hardly be the answer | ||
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TeamMamba
285 Posts
On July 28 2026 06:14 Slydie wrote: Zerg is in such an amazing place right now, and you still complain? Terran needs ways to win, you know. You don't like ghosts? Do some offracing and try to build and control an "op" ghost army, then come back and tell me your results. lol using your argument if you think Zerg is in a good place everyone should be off racing Zergs and winning everything right? Serral for the last few years has been making Zergs look “great”. All the nerfs weren’t not Zerg nerfs rather a direct “Serral” nerf such as the burrow infestor Let us know when a Zerg other than Serral wins a big tournament | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3549 Posts
Either way a click battle between snipe and abduct is the most boring thing I've ever heard about. So, I'd rather emp vs. abduct, and abduct while ghost is channeling. I generally think ranges are too long in sc2 and is part of what creates the death ball feeling. Roach battles, or pvp with mass archons isn't the same terrible, terrible dmg, death ball. And it's a very cool skill to set up the engagement correctly. Whereas marine vs. marine is pretty horrible to watch. Or colossus immortal stalker. So, I wouldn't mind seeing range nerf on abduct, feedback, Tempest air, lurker and even hydra. This could make interfering matrix more competitive as well. | ||
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Slydie
2007 Posts
On July 30 2026 02:58 ejozl wrote: I'd wager that zerg has still won most premiers in lotv even discounting serral. Either way a click battle between snipe and abduct is the most boring thing I've ever heard about. So, I'd rather emp vs. abduct, and abduct while ghost is channeling. I generally think ranges are too long in sc2 and is part of what creates the death ball feeling. Roach battles, or pvp with mass archons isn't the same terrible, terrible dmg, death ball. And it's a very cool skill to set up the engagement correctly. Whereas marine vs. marine is pretty horrible to watch. Or colossus immortal stalker. So, I wouldn't mind seeing range nerf on abduct, feedback, Tempest air, lurker and even hydra. This could make interfering matrix more competitive as well. Marine vs marine is a usually a numbers game of quantity and upgrades, but when tanks, terrain and medivacs are added, I think TvT is by far the most interesting mirror matchup. Some freak might even go mech! | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1361 Posts
On July 30 2026 02:58 ejozl wrote: I'd wager that zerg has still won most premiers in lotv even discounting serral. My numbers are not fully up2date anymore, but no, without Serral Zerg has not won the most premiers in LotV, that honor goes to Terran. With Serral however it is a landslide victory for Zerg, with Serral making up roughly 1/3 of those victories. | ||
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tigera6
3516 Posts
On July 31 2026 20:34 Balnazza wrote: My numbers are not fully up2date anymore, but no, without Serral Zerg has not won the most premiers in LotV, that honor goes to Terran. With Serral however it is a landslide victory for Zerg, with Serral making up roughly 1/3 of those victories. What about Terran? What is the % tournament win belong to Maru and Clem respectively? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3549 Posts
Tvt tank marine medivac is awesome to watch, though i think air is a bit too strong, by that i mean vikings and medivac boost. But had it been marine only it'd be boring as hell, as well as if we had adept battles, or hydra only battles. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1361 Posts
Maru also made up roughly 1/3 of Terran victories, Clem (who has won quite a bit since then) was ~1/8. He was only one win above Innovation at the time and even behind Neeb in Premier-wins. The reason I named Serral specifically here with the 1/3 is that he makes up the entire ludicrous difference between Zerg and Terran (when I stopped it was 68Z vs. 41T), with Serral being at 25 wins. So without him, it was 43Z vs. 41T (31 for Protoss btw). Maru would be the next in line, but with 15 wins at the time, he was still in line with the next players (Rogue/11, Reynor/10, even Neeb/8 and Dark/8). The jump between Serral and Maru is just too high to ignore. Funfact: When you take out Serral, at the time I stopped there even was a perfect split between all three races when it comes to "Players who won a Premier". With Serral, Zerg is one up. Long story short: Over the entire course of LotV Zerg is definetly not weak. It might even be the strongest race. But the entire "omg Zerg is SO much better than any other race"-argument purely comes from Serral. He is the one throwing off the curve. | ||
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PremoBeats
611 Posts
Maru has played the whole time of LotV; Serral only turned full time pro in 2018 and had a small leave due to the military. herO was absent roughly 1.5 years and had to get back on track after. If we take off the years that Serral didn't focus on SC2 fully, he stands at 46,77%. If we take off the region locks he's at 36,54%. But yeah.. to say that Serral is responsible for nearly half of all Zerg wins (including region locks) since he turned full time pro is a more or less fair take. If herO's off-years are counted out of the overall Toss wins, he's at 20,00%. Out of the 11 years Maru played in LotV, he won the most tournaments of his race in 3 years, is on the top with others in 4, didn't win the most in 1 and won nothing in 3 years. Out of the 9 years Serral played in LotV, he won the most tournaments of his race in 7 years, is on the top with others in 1, didn't win the most in 1 and won nothing in 0 years. Out of the 7 years (taking of the years he played after military until he won another one again) herO played in LotV, he won the most tournaments of his race in 2 years, is on the top with others in 1, didn't win the most in 1 and won nothing in 3 years. If we compare these player's to the 2nd or 3rd best of their respective race, Serral has the biggest gap. He further is the only Zerg who has won anything relevant since mid 2024. So if Serral was indeed removed, we'd have the same drought for Zerg, as we had for Toss, when herO was still getting back on track and Max didn't play anything offline. Although taking out the region locks, no controlling was done for Maru or herO wins in Korea, where the top Europens - including Serral - were absent. If this was done, it'd most likely lead to Serral's lead growing bigger. Further, no controlling was done in regards to tournament format or player roster. This is just a quick write up out of the data, I have at hand. If we look at efficiency, Serral has won over 52% of the Premier Tournaments he participated in (including the time he wasn't a full time pro). The next closest are Life (25%), and Mvp (24%). Other top pros range from 7 - 18% mostly. This is including region locks; without region locks Serral is at roughly 36%. Maru sits as 16,89% and herO at 14,61% (uncontrolled), | ||
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BlackEyed
38 Posts
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TeamMamba
285 Posts
On July 31 2026 21:28 tigera6 wrote: What about Terran? What is the % tournament win belong to Maru and Clem respectively? Still belongs to Terran if you take the top 2 winners from both races Take rogue Serral out, Maru Clem out. The honor still goes to Terran You seem to forgot there were a lot of Terrans winning during LoTV not just “Maru” winning agenda. Innovation TY cure gumiho were winning championships People like to complain about Zergs winning too much but that’s because Zerg’s big 4 were better players than any of the other races top 4 | ||
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Koss4AA
4 Posts
People like to complain about Zergs winning too much but that’s because Zerg’s big 4 were better players than any of the other races top 4 I do not agree with this take; it begs the question. If we do seriously want to ask whether zerg has so many better players, we have compelling evidence that they do not. First, in terms of talent pool, which is sparser than the other factions by a significant amount. It's significantly unlikely that the best players aggregated in zerg alone, mysteriously. Second, Serral is able to win at times when other zerg players cannot, which demonstrates the feasibility of successful zerg performance throughout. One hypothesis is that Serral is simply that much better than everyone else; an alternative hypothesis is that he is merely that much better than the other zerg players, which is the better hypothesis in consideration of the sparser zerg talent pool. So, is it possible that zerg players are simply better than everyone else? Yes. Is it likely? Prima facie it is not; on the contrary we should assume that there will be fewer strong zerg players than strong players of the other races. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3549 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1361 Posts
On August 04 2026 02:27 ejozl wrote: Serral can both be the best and zerg be overtuned, my point is even with serral removed zerg is in a very good spot with rogue, reynor and dark in lotv. If we look for the 2nd protoss who would that even be?, zest?, or stats? Classic, Trap, Zest, Stats, Neeb...there are definetly quite a lot of Protoss who have won Premier events in LotV. And as I said: Without Serral, there was a perfect split between all three races in terms of players who have won atleast one Premier event (with Serral it is +1 von Zerg, which is still a perfect split in my opinion). If Zerg was so "overtuned", I would expect much more Zergs to have won Premier events compared to the other two races. | ||
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