Hi, this is Waxangel from TL.net, the head administrator of the TL.net Map Contest.
For several years, TLMC has helped Blizzard and ESL facilitate ladder map rotations. With ESL no longer directly involved in the map selection process, TLMC is stepping up to try and make sure seasonal map changes continue. Right now, we're in communication with Blizzard to rotate the map pool ahead of the EWC competitive cycle.
As our starting point, we've assembled a temporary, provisional map pool centered on TLMC #20 with minimal subjective input on our end. We've incorporated different factors and interests to try and get a rough impression of what maps are popular with the community. Of course, this is just a first step, and we will iterate based on feedback.
Top 3 pro-player polled maps from TLMC #20 finalists (polled via the old ESL feedback chat)
Incorporeal
Tokamak
Magannatha
Top 3 most-played maps from the previous pool (Liquipedia stats)
Ley Lines
Whispers of Gold
Ultralove
(In accordance with 2024's pre-EWC rotation, we have started with a 3-old, 6-new structure.)
We welcome the broader community's comments, and will look to supplement the original TLMC #20 voting results with additional feedback. We may ask for specific feedback in the future, but feel free to use this thread for general map feedback in the meanwhile. Please check the finalists post or our public results sheet for more information on the TLMC #20 maps.
We have already received some initial feedback from progamers, and we will continue to be in communication with them during this crucial time for the competitive scene.
We also invite tournament organizers to play events on the provisional pool to help the community further evaluate the maps. We also encourage tournament organizers to continue experimenting with maps they find interesting and beneficial to their events, as we consider their map curation to be valuable feedback in itself.
By collecting feedback from various sources, we hope to ultimately arrive at a final pool of maps that can both breathe fresh air into the competitive scene, as well as be agreeable to various facets of the community.
Regarding 3+ player maps
As the topic of 3+ player maps has been controversial in the scene, especially among progamers, we'd like to comment specifically on Last Fantasy.
Last Fantasy is the first 3+ player map to be a TLMC finalist since 2021, and it immediately won the fan vote by a comfortable margin. Interestingly enough, the TLMC that last included 3+ player maps among the finalists—TLMC 15—did not see those maps perform particularly well in voting.
TLMC voting is hardly a perfect representation of the entire SC2 scene, but the recent result of Last Fantasy winning the community vote does appear meaningful. At the very least, it merits including the map in this initial, provisional pool, and listening to more feedback on it.
Big news! That's a huge responsibility on the shoulders on TLMC. The lifeblood of the community is in your hands. My two cents is to be very careful with major game changing features because we have patches only once a year, and may not even have reliable patches or map rotations in the future. This is because they can have major impacts on balance that we will be unable to fix (See: ZvP for the past five months).
If I can be frank, two maps with healing shrines plus a 3-player is irresponsible and does a disservice to the SC2 community, who deserve not only fun games, but balanced games. These are game mechanics that are completely untested in SC2's recent history and has have potential balance effects and problems that have yet to be seen. Especially considering we only have three vetoes, I would like to see the amount of maps with healing shrines reduced, perhaps replace one with a "Normal" freestyle map. I think three freestyle maps is perfect; the sweetspot-but three maps that have untested volatile mechanics is a bit much. I think it would be better to see 1 healing shrine map+1 3p+1 "normal" freestyle.
The Top 3 most-played maps from the previous pool is a great idea. Would love to see Ultra Love in the next map pool again. Magannatha and Tokamak are fantastic maps too.
Awesome!! TLMC is awesome and I hope TL can coordinate the balance too by testing tons and tons of potential changes with like a 50% community / 50% pro feedback ratio
Have you considered adding a 4th veto or have Blizz increase a number somewhere in the config? Seems to be a popular request.
Players' map preferences are not independent of the race, there are some imbalances affecting some races/matchups more. This can lead to users with same race having similar vetoes.
At the extreme, with 9 map pool and 4 vetoes, race A can have maps #1-4 vetoed, race B can have maps #5-8 vetoed, so only map #9 remains available for a certain A vs B matchup. Similarly with the old 7 map pool with 3 vetoes.
I can see the reason to keep vetoes at 3 max. Other reason could be 'normal' code with some way hardcoded constants (even if it's configurable, some logic/consideration requires this value to be 3).
Thank god for the end to racism towards 3 player maps
We have to keep in mind survivor's bias is a strong factor - players who liked 3 and 4 players maps are more likely to have left the scene and so their voices are less heard. When you only listen to the current voices, the game becomes more and more narrow and appealing to a smaller and smaller audience
On April 15 2025 11:55 sidasf wrote: If I can be frank, two maps with healing shrines plus a 3-player is irresponsible and does a disservice to the SC2 community, who deserve not only fun games
Sometimes I wonder if you're a bot given the sheer consistency of showing up to every single mapmaking thread to shit talk healing shrines. I'd really rather you'd not be frank. Go actually play on a map with shrines before commenting.
Contrary to picking future maps based on how often they were played in the last pool, there should actually be a rule saying the opposite:
The top 3 most played maps from the last pool should never be allowed to persist into the next successive pool.
Otherwise, you've just picked the most stale maps to make stale a second time.
On April 21 2025 06:42 MrIronGolem27 wrote: Hi all. Thanks to TLMC for their continued efforts and for considering my finalist for inclusion in the ladder pool.
On April 15 2025 11:55 sidasf wrote: If I can be frank, two maps with healing shrines plus a 3-player is irresponsible and does a disservice to the SC2 community, who deserve not only fun games
Sometimes I wonder if you're a bot given the sheer consistency of showing up to every single mapmaking thread to shit talk healing shrines. I'd really rather you'd not be frank. Go actually play on a map with shrines before commenting.
Contrary to picking future maps based on how often they were played in the last pool, there should actually be a rule saying the opposite:
The top 3 most played maps from the last pool should never be allowed to persist into the next successive pool.
Otherwise, you've just picked the most stale maps to make stale a second time.
There should be more maps in the pools, period.
It’s really hard to accommodate players who like the whacky as well as those who like the safest, most familiar and balanced maps.
Or players who’ve laddered/watched a lot of tournaments and maps become stale to them, alongside players who are much less active and find it beneficial to have at least a few familiar faces.
Not something I’m criticising TLMC about at all, just I’ve long felt the ladder pools should be larger to accommodate divergent desires and leave more room for experimentation.
EPT
