• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:02
CEST 18:02
KST 01:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues26LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers?
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1562 users

Code S RO16 Preview - herO, Reynor, soO, GuMiho - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
40 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
johnnyh123
Profile Joined February 2023
124 Posts
May 09 2024 21:13 GMT
#21
Honestly, some great games. Really liked Gumiho's style here. Was definitely hoping for one of the eliminated players to advance though.
Locutos
Profile Joined January 2017
Brazil268 Posts
May 11 2024 12:50 GMT
#22
On May 10 2024 03:31 Drahkn wrote:
While GSL is not as competitive as it once was, top 16 in GSL is still way higher average skill than a top 16 in Europe.
Top 16 players in GSL are all capable of taking bo3's of any player. So many people the past years thinking ESL tournaments somehow rival GSL it's just not the case. Europe has 4 players that belong in the top 16 in a GSL and Serral is probably the only one of those who would be a even favorite to win a GSL, but I think Serral would need several seasons before he would take a GSL, even if GSL is at it's lowest level of competitiveness it would still be tough.



I think so too, not because of skill, but because of the ype of preparation needed.

They've been honing this for a decade and a half now. The Gumiho's and SoO's. They are never true contenders for Season finals or any type of weekenders, but when it comes to GSL, they're monsters, and can tumble anyone other than Maru - who should wake up every day, kneel and thank to God that Serral wasnt born in Korea.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3410 Posts
May 11 2024 13:54 GMT
#23
On May 11 2024 21:50 Locutos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2024 03:31 Drahkn wrote:
While GSL is not as competitive as it once was, top 16 in GSL is still way higher average skill than a top 16 in Europe.
Top 16 players in GSL are all capable of taking bo3's of any player. So many people the past years thinking ESL tournaments somehow rival GSL it's just not the case. Europe has 4 players that belong in the top 16 in a GSL and Serral is probably the only one of those who would be a even favorite to win a GSL, but I think Serral would need several seasons before he would take a GSL, even if GSL is at it's lowest level of competitiveness it would still be tough.



I think so too, not because of skill, but because of the ype of preparation needed.

They've been honing this for a decade and a half now. The Gumiho's and SoO's. They are never true contenders for Season finals or any type of weekenders, but when it comes to GSL, they're monsters, and can tumble anyone other than Maru - who should wake up every day, kneel and thank to God that Serral wasnt born in Korea.

Nah, I think he should thank that Rogue got to go to the military, imagine Rogue got G5L before him would be more devastating. If Serral was born in KR, and play in the WOL era, I do not know how far he would have gotten through all that. People just assume Serral is immediately a world-champion the moment he touch SC2 or soemthing.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4408 Posts
May 11 2024 16:00 GMT
#24
On May 11 2024 21:50 Locutos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2024 03:31 Drahkn wrote:
While GSL is not as competitive as it once was, top 16 in GSL is still way higher average skill than a top 16 in Europe.
Top 16 players in GSL are all capable of taking bo3's of any player. So many people the past years thinking ESL tournaments somehow rival GSL it's just not the case. Europe has 4 players that belong in the top 16 in a GSL and Serral is probably the only one of those who would be a even favorite to win a GSL, but I think Serral would need several seasons before he would take a GSL, even if GSL is at it's lowest level of competitiveness it would still be tough.



I think so too, not because of skill, but because of the ype of preparation needed.

They've been honing this for a decade and a half now. The Gumiho's and SoO's. They are never true contenders for Season finals or any type of weekenders, but when it comes to GSL, they're monsters, and can tumble anyone other than Maru - who should wake up every day, kneel and thank to God that Serral wasnt born in Korea.


The idea that Maru should be grateful Serral isn't in Korea is false. Serral is in no way the main problem for Maru in terms of lack of results that would make him the definitive goat. Maru could've been like a 7-8 time world champion without changing his record vs Serral at all because in most big tournaments he simply isn't required to beat Serral to win. There's no reason to think GSL wouldn't be the same. He'd still be able to win most of his GSLs without needing to beat Serral even if Serral was in Korea.

That's also ignoring the possibility that Maru does better vs Serral in Korea than elsewhere which is a pretty big possibility to ignore considering Maru already does much better vs most other players in Korea. Most of Maru's international eliminations are at the hands of other Koreans he is usually favored against in Korea.

If anything Serral should be grateful he was born in Finland because without that he wouldn't have been able to farm region locked events and have a guaranteed qualifying slot into every major international. Serral being born in Korea would have impacted his legacy a lot more than Maru's. You immediately have to remove all his region locked events, most of his HSCs, and a sizable chunk of his other internationals from a combination of:
HSC conflicts with GSL
Koreans having less slots than they should in internationals, Serral isn't going to be top 6-8 in Korea every single season or every single KR qualifier, even if he is most of the time he will falter sometimes and the punishment will be much worse than in EU
Jetlag (memed about but it's real, EU players have a small but real advantage at the internationals that take place in EU
COVID era online events favoring EU players for start time and server switching
Locutos
Profile Joined January 2017
Brazil268 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-11 20:58:24
May 11 2024 20:57 GMT
#25
On May 12 2024 01:00 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2024 21:50 Locutos wrote:
On May 10 2024 03:31 Drahkn wrote:
While GSL is not as competitive as it once was, top 16 in GSL is still way higher average skill than a top 16 in Europe.
Top 16 players in GSL are all capable of taking bo3's of any player. So many people the past years thinking ESL tournaments somehow rival GSL it's just not the case. Europe has 4 players that belong in the top 16 in a GSL and Serral is probably the only one of those who would be a even favorite to win a GSL, but I think Serral would need several seasons before he would take a GSL, even if GSL is at it's lowest level of competitiveness it would still be tough.



I think so too, not because of skill, but because of the ype of preparation needed.

They've been honing this for a decade and a half now. The Gumiho's and SoO's. They are never true contenders for Season finals or any type of weekenders, but when it comes to GSL, they're monsters, and can tumble anyone other than Maru - who should wake up every day, kneel and thank to God that Serral wasnt born in Korea.


The idea that Maru should be grateful Serral isn't in Korea is false. Serral is in no way the main problem for Maru in terms of lack of results that would make him the definitive goat. Maru could've been like a 7-8 time world champion without changing his record vs Serral at all because in most big tournaments he simply isn't required to beat Serral to win. There's no reason to think GSL wouldn't be the same. He'd still be able to win most of his GSLs without needing to beat Serral even if Serral was in Korea.

That's also ignoring the possibility that Maru does better vs Serral in Korea than elsewhere which is a pretty big possibility to ignore considering Maru already does much better vs most other players in Korea. Most of Maru's international eliminations are at the hands of other Koreans he is usually favored against in Korea.

If anything Serral should be grateful he was born in Finland because without that he wouldn't have been able to farm region locked events and have a guaranteed qualifying slot into every major international. Serral being born in Korea would have impacted his legacy a lot more than Maru's. You immediately have to remove all his region locked events, most of his HSCs, and a sizable chunk of his other internationals from a combination of:
HSC conflicts with GSL
Koreans having less slots than they should in internationals, Serral isn't going to be top 6-8 in Korea every single season or every single KR qualifier, even if he is most of the time he will falter sometimes and the punishment will be much worse than in EU
Jetlag (memed about but it's real, EU players have a small but real advantage at the internationals that take place in EU
COVID era online events favoring EU players for start time and server switching


You're seriously stating that the ONLY player in the world who has a head to head advantage against - ALL THE TOP - players in the world worries about not classifying to tournaments?

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.

When i say that Maru should be thankful, im only considering that in all the premier tournaments that both of them competed at the same time, Serral won double the times Maru won, which translates to Maru probably having developed a unique form of gratitude towards no meeting the finnish in korean soil.

Dont come with region locked stuff, no one needs to consider them for acknowledging that Serral > Maru.

JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4408 Posts
May 11 2024 23:24 GMT
#26
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2024 01:00 JJH777 wrote:
On May 11 2024 21:50 Locutos wrote:
On May 10 2024 03:31 Drahkn wrote:
While GSL is not as competitive as it once was, top 16 in GSL is still way higher average skill than a top 16 in Europe.
Top 16 players in GSL are all capable of taking bo3's of any player. So many people the past years thinking ESL tournaments somehow rival GSL it's just not the case. Europe has 4 players that belong in the top 16 in a GSL and Serral is probably the only one of those who would be a even favorite to win a GSL, but I think Serral would need several seasons before he would take a GSL, even if GSL is at it's lowest level of competitiveness it would still be tough.



I think so too, not because of skill, but because of the ype of preparation needed.

They've been honing this for a decade and a half now. The Gumiho's and SoO's. They are never true contenders for Season finals or any type of weekenders, but when it comes to GSL, they're monsters, and can tumble anyone other than Maru - who should wake up every day, kneel and thank to God that Serral wasnt born in Korea.


The idea that Maru should be grateful Serral isn't in Korea is false. Serral is in no way the main problem for Maru in terms of lack of results that would make him the definitive goat. Maru could've been like a 7-8 time world champion without changing his record vs Serral at all because in most big tournaments he simply isn't required to beat Serral to win. There's no reason to think GSL wouldn't be the same. He'd still be able to win most of his GSLs without needing to beat Serral even if Serral was in Korea.

That's also ignoring the possibility that Maru does better vs Serral in Korea than elsewhere which is a pretty big possibility to ignore considering Maru already does much better vs most other players in Korea. Most of Maru's international eliminations are at the hands of other Koreans he is usually favored against in Korea.

If anything Serral should be grateful he was born in Finland because without that he wouldn't have been able to farm region locked events and have a guaranteed qualifying slot into every major international. Serral being born in Korea would have impacted his legacy a lot more than Maru's. You immediately have to remove all his region locked events, most of his HSCs, and a sizable chunk of his other internationals from a combination of:
HSC conflicts with GSL
Koreans having less slots than they should in internationals, Serral isn't going to be top 6-8 in Korea every single season or every single KR qualifier, even if he is most of the time he will falter sometimes and the punishment will be much worse than in EU
Jetlag (memed about but it's real, EU players have a small but real advantage at the internationals that take place in EU
COVID era online events favoring EU players for start time and server switching


You're seriously stating that the ONLY player in the world who has a head to head advantage against - ALL THE TOP - players in the world worries about not classifying to tournaments?

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.

When i say that Maru should be thankful, im only considering that in all the premier tournaments that both of them competed at the same time, Serral won double the times Maru won, which translates to Maru probably having developed a unique form of gratitude towards no meeting the finnish in korean soil.

Dont come with region locked stuff, no one needs to consider them for acknowledging that Serral > Maru.



Even from EU he failed to make two season finals and WCG. The idea that he would qualify for everything if he was in Korea is crazy. He would still qualify for most events but would occasionally lose out before the top 6/8 or however many players the event allowed from Korea.

The thing is Maru isn't losing those events because of Serral the vast majority of the time. The fact that he is in them is mostly irrelevant. In offline matches they've only played like 4 elimination matches in their entire match history and Maru won one of them so it's really only 3 times that Serral has eliminated him from important events. Additionally in the majority of those events he could have won them without beating Serral. More often than not it was another GSL player who eliminated him. There's no reason to think GSL with Serral wouldn't go a similar way. They would very rarely meet but the majority of the time either one of them could win without playing the other.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12890 Posts
May 12 2024 09:06 GMT
#27
Why are we bringing up Maru / Serral in every thread where they aren’t. I mean, sure, Reynor getting + Show Spoiler +
bopped
gives us a nice clue about the level of play in the GSL (+ Show Spoiler +
it’s higher than most tournaments despite the ridiculously low prizepool
), but there are dedicated threads for these discussions. Namely #1 goat article of Maru, or #2 () article for Serral
WriterMaru
Locutos
Profile Joined January 2017
Brazil268 Posts
May 12 2024 12:14 GMT
#28
On May 12 2024 18:06 Poopi wrote:
Why are we bringing up Maru / Serral in every thread where they aren’t. I mean, sure, Reynor getting + Show Spoiler +
bopped
gives us a nice clue about the level of play in the GSL (+ Show Spoiler +
it’s higher than most tournaments despite the ridiculously low prizepool
), but there are dedicated threads for these discussions. Namely #1 goat article of Maru, or #2 () article for Serral



I dont think Reynor's run indicates anything.

He hasnt been a real contender for some time.

Even though we know he CAN have the highest spikes in performance.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12890 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-12 13:05:30
May 12 2024 13:03 GMT
#29
On May 12 2024 21:14 Locutos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2024 18:06 Poopi wrote:
Why are we bringing up Maru / Serral in every thread where they aren’t. I mean, sure, Reynor getting + Show Spoiler +
bopped
gives us a nice clue about the level of play in the GSL (+ Show Spoiler +
it’s higher than most tournaments despite the ridiculously low prizepool
), but there are dedicated threads for these discussions. Namely #1 goat article of Maru, or #2 () article for Serral



I dont think Reynor's run indicates anything.

He hasnt been a real contender for some time.

Even though we know he CAN have the highest spikes in performance.

Point 1: - low PING / LAN allows for discrepancies in players skill to shine.

Then if that particular run doesn't indicate anything, maybe his previous run, when he was in peak form but couldn't defeat Bunny, is indicative?

It's the same pattern: in Korea, you have the "best" ping in the world. In Europe, even with top quality fiber, you get around 20ms (on sc2 interface, idk about real ping) ping. In Korea, afaik it's sub 10ms, which makes a big difference in terms of possibility. To put it simple, the higher the ping, the less the difference in skill / skill gap between players matters, since the possibilities in terms of gameplay (micro / macro etc.) are limited. On the other hand, the lower the ping is compared to true LAN, the more you can do with your units / buildings etc. That's why you can see INSANELY sharp 2base all-ins from terrans (and probably from protoss as well but I watched a bit less PvX) in the GSL, namely the ones that beat Reynor in his previous GSL run (see the Bunny series).

When you watch Cure play in European qualifiers with insanely high ping from Korea, he is very limited in terms of gameplay, so he adjusts his strategies to suit that.

Point 2: - being able to "DOWNLOAD" your opponent matters at the top level in every esport.

Jet lag / living in a foreign country etc matter, but imo those are small points that can be "countered" by the players rather easily (for KR players travelling to EU, or EU players travelling to KR, with melatonin, coming in early, etc.) so that's not why the level of play is higher in the GSL and why Reynor didn't manage to perform well recently.

Imho, on top of point 1, why Reynor performed poorly (compared to the expectations) in his last two runs of GSL is the same reason he performed VERY WELL (compared to the expectations) in his first actual GSL run. The infamous "downloading" other players. KR players can practice with each other and more importantly talk to each other very easily, that's why we get the intel from Mizenhauer that GuMiho knew "all" he had to do vs Reynor was to play "weird" / non standard.
Because the collective intelligence of players in KR atm was enough (or GuMiho's own practice, whatever) for most players in the GSL to have a feel for how to counter Reynor. That's also probably why herO first picked Reynor, not just because of his "form", but because herO had a good idea on how to play versus Reynor in this period of time.

On the other hand, when Reynor first got to play in the GSL, most KR players probably had no clue who this guy was or how to play against him. That's what allowed him to perform as well. Sure, he was skilled / in form or whatever, but he also was in top shape in his previous run. The main difference (on top of point 1 / ping) was the knowledge of the opponent.

Conclusion: - why Reynor's runs in the GSL give us a nice idea about Code S level of play.

As to why those two points make Code S one of the most difficult tournaments, it's rather understandable: top 16 players in the world are mainly Koreans, while EU+NA+CN have 4-5 players max in this top 16. Having the best collective force of players + insanely low ping allowing skill gap to matter, gives you one of the highest level of play.
WriterMaru
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 13 2024 00:36 GMT
#30
Small correction that it's Reynor's third attempt, not second (first in '18).
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 13 2024 00:49 GMT
#31
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6944 Posts
May 13 2024 11:24 GMT
#32
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12890 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-13 11:50:34
May 13 2024 11:50 GMT
#33
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.

That’s expected though, Maru is the fourth race while Serral is « merely » the best Zerg in the world.
Maru would probably be best protoss / Zerg in the world if he fancied playing those races seriously
WriterMaru
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 13 2024 17:37 GMT
#34
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 13 2024 17:41 GMT
#35
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 14 2024 07:33 GMT
#36
On May 14 2024 02:41 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.


His statement was "Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years."

I showed periods of time within 6 years when that's not true.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6944 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-14 07:51:11
May 14 2024 07:50 GMT
#37
On May 14 2024 16:33 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2024 02:41 Pandain wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.


His statement was "Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years."

I showed periods of time within 6 years when that's not true.


Those two statements don't directly contradict each other though:
First statement:
The timeframe:6 years
the statement was "in this timeframe Serral does better (than anyone else?) against any korean player"

Your statement:
your timeframe: A rainy night with a fullmoon and a yellow cab was driving by
the statement: he (serral) does not because he lost a game in that timeframe

Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12890 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-14 08:17:36
May 14 2024 08:16 GMT
#38
Serral stans unite to support Reynor in this tough time of defeat
We Maru fans have more difficult times because our guy sometimes lose
On the other hand Serral fans only sweat in mirror match-ups when it's balanced game
WriterMaru
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 14 2024 08:46 GMT
#39
On May 14 2024 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2024 16:33 goldensail wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:41 Pandain wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.


His statement was "Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years."

I showed periods of time within 6 years when that's not true.


Those two statements don't directly contradict each other though:
First statement:
The timeframe:6 years
the statement was "in this timeframe Serral does better (than anyone else?) against any korean player"

Your statement:
your timeframe: A rainy night with a fullmoon and a yellow cab was driving by
the statement: he (serral) does not because he lost a game in that timeframe



I have no idea what you're saying. My examples span across 1~2 years with Serral suffering several one-sided losses. It was hardly a case of him "losing a game on a rainy night".
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 14 2024 09:10 GMT
#40
On May 14 2024 17:46 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2024 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
On May 14 2024 16:33 goldensail wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:41 Pandain wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.


His statement was "Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years."

I showed periods of time within 6 years when that's not true.


Those two statements don't directly contradict each other though:
First statement:
The timeframe:6 years
the statement was "in this timeframe Serral does better (than anyone else?) against any korean player"

Your statement:
your timeframe: A rainy night with a fullmoon and a yellow cab was driving by
the statement: he (serral) does not because he lost a game in that timeframe



I have no idea what you're saying. My examples span across 1~2 years with Serral suffering several one-sided losses. It was hardly a case of him "losing a game on a rainy night".


On May 14 2024 16:33 goldensail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2024 02:41 Pandain wrote:
On May 14 2024 02:37 goldensail wrote:
On May 13 2024 20:24 Harris1st wrote:
On May 13 2024 09:49 goldensail wrote:
On May 12 2024 05:57 Locutos wrote:

Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years. And since he doesnt play weeklies, it means that those statistics are from offline premier events.



I think that's your memory playing tricks on you. It's not a completely accurate statement.

In H2Hs where race balance is taken out of the picture:
- Dark beat Serral 4:0 in '20 and between '20-'22, a H2H between the two is not Serral favored.
- Similarly between '20-'21, Rogue was heavily favored in H2H against Serral.
- In contrast, no Terran ever beat Maru 4:0.


Congratulations, you mastered cherry picking


If someone is making a blanket statement, I only have to give one example to refute it and sure, that one example will be cherry picked. That's just how basic logic works but it looks like many people don't even know that.


The guy said "Serral has a winning record against every korean."

You said "well actually if I narrow the time-frame down to these specific time-frames he doesn't."

That's not responsive to the original statement.


His statement was "Serral does better against any korean player that has touched the game in the last 6 years."

I showed periods of time within 6 years when that's not true.


Great, you guys can agree. It seems like you just misinterpreted his sentence. He's saying that anyone whose played in the last six years, Serral has a winning record against him. He's not saying throughout those six years Serral has maintained a winning record at all periods of time.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
13:00
Playoffs - Round of 8
ShoWTimE vs herOLIVE!
TBD vs Serral
TBD vs Zoun
ComeBackTV 1694
RotterdaM1375
WardiTV485
PiGStarcraft416
IndyStarCraft 396
SteadfastSC258
Rex184
CranKy Ducklings156
EnkiAlexander 66
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1375
PiGStarcraft416
IndyStarCraft 396
SteadfastSC 258
Rex 184
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 126
sSak 99
Hyun 72
zelot 48
Shine 24
yabsab 17
Terrorterran 14
Hm[arnc] 11
Noble 6
Dota 2
The International206689
Gorgc18149
Dendi1118
BananaSlamJamma161
PGG 45
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
flusha165
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King72
Chillindude19
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor154
Other Games
tarik_tv21823
gofns15196
Mlord483
Hui .299
KnowMe199
mouzStarbuck188
ToD99
ArmadaUGS62
NeuroSwarm36
SortOf28
Trikslyr27
fpsfer 1
FrodaN0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick624
EGCTV462
BasetradeTV13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 11
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler89
• Noizen63
League of Legends
• Jankos1869
Other Games
• Shiphtur171
Upcoming Events
BSL Team Wars
2h 58m
Afreeca Starleague
17h 58m
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
18h 58m
OSC
1d 7h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 17h
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.