EPTKelazhur Talks: Saudis in SC2, Balance, & more... - Page 3
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Lambertus
South Africa977 Posts
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Poopi
France12904 Posts
On May 16 2024 17:38 AlexGano wrote: I'm just curious that how many of you have been to Russia, China, Saudi or other countries from a world you are not familiar with. People are only willing to believing things that they wanna believe. Labelling a country is definitely an easier way to treat this world, right? I come from one of these countries and have been used to pointless offensive words from English communities. That's funny, especially when seeing people show their hates to some news filtered by their countries' medias. But the most important things is, your hate changes nothing here. Some may believe resistance makes us all ears, the truth is we will never hear until you become friendly. Maybe coming to these countries and seeing their developments with your own eyes will be a good start. Then you can make your judgement supported by more solid things. Well those are big countries, following your reasoning, have you been to all places in your country so you have a perfectly clear idea about what is going on? Medias are biased but not online western medias vs eastern countries, even in a single country there are medias with different biases. I don't think people on tl.net are hateful towards a country in particular, they are rather concerned about the safety of minorities in certain countries, which is a vastly different thing. And what are "English" communities? I am not English for instance, I am French, and we just speak English on tl.net because that's the language that established itself as the international one over the centuries through UK / USA. But the tl.net community is comprised of starcraft fans from many different countries. It is a Starcraft (both BW+SC2) community forum. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20318 Posts
I'm just curious that how many of you have been to Russia, Saudi Pretty hard when you get arrested/tortured/killed for just showing up while having the wrong characteristics. The Russian government is in the middle of killing a bunch of my friends right now because they want more land, so nah we shouldn't hold our tournaments in Moscow either. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On May 16 2024 20:34 Poopi wrote: Well those are big countries, following your reasoning, have you been to all places in your country so you have a perfectly clear idea about what is going on? Medias are biased but not online western medias vs eastern countries, even in a single country there are medias with different biases. I don't think people on tl.net are hateful towards a country in particular, they are rather concerned about the safety of minorities in certain countries, which is a vastly different thing. And what are "English" communities? I am not English for instance, I am French, and we just speak English on tl.net because that's the language that established itself as the international one over the centuries through UK / USA. But the tl.net community is comprised of starcraft fans from many different countries. It is a Starcraft (both BW+SC2) community forum. The Ukrainian/Russian war thread may be occasionally cantankerous, but generally TLers are perfectly civil with our Russian brothers and sisters, many of whom are community staples who’ve been here longer and done more for the scene than I have certainly. Our Chinese contingent is quite small, but warmly received too. They’ve their own forums as the language gap is quite large/other factors. Generally TL is pretty damn good at not damning people by the actions of their governments, and respectful of some cultural divergence while maintaining certain lines in the sand. Less high up in my list of concerns tbh, but somewhat worth mentioning IMO. There hasn’t been, to my knowledge any major Arab scene in this and most other eSport titles that I’m aware of, certainly not one that interacts much with places like this. Which is yet another reason why having SC2’s showpiece event in Saudi Arabia is a kick in the teeth. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
On May 11 2024 10:42 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: Where we are not dependent is in the entertainment industry. This is a sector where we, as consumers, can try to make ethical choices. I don't think the discussion about this is meaningless. +1, good points. On May 17 2024 05:06 WombaT wrote:Which is yet another reason why having SC2’s showpiece event in Saudi Arabia is a kick in the teeth. On May 16 2024 16:50 Lambertus wrote: Me sitting on my desktop typing away on my chinese keyboard already disqualifies me of being part of a bigger conversation or judging and questioning your choices? Then we will never reach anything! I am very curious to see where all of this will lead us as SC-Community and as Gaming Communities worldwide... the sky ain't falling guys. It is not going to lead any where because this is what the video game industry has been all about since it started in the 1970s. Turning a blind eye to this Saudi tourney does not surprise me in the least. The video game industry is really shadey. The industry attracts shadey people and also encourages illegal//unethical behaviours of people and companies who normally would not behave so poorly. + Show Spoiler + Mattel WAS a generally on-the-level solid company with a solid track record until 1979. Mattel super fucked over their video game customers in their "Mattel Electronics" division in the early 1980s and late 1970s. Maple Story scams for over a decade and receives a tiny fine. www.youtube.com Because of the omnipresence of social media apps today we hear a lot about all the scams in which video game companies are involved. However, based on the research I've done the industry was just as bad in the 70s, 80s, 90s as it is today. Even the pinball machine industry proceeding the video games were nefarious and shadey. The Pinball Machine makers got slapped down for including gambling elements in their Pinball Games... and they ignored government demands and just kept on rolling. 50 years later.. .EA does the same damn thing. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-fined-10m-over-loot-boxes-as-dutch-court-sides-with-gambling-authority EA was told to remove or alter their loot box mechanics. They refused and decided to take it all the way to a judge's decision. EA said their loot boxes were like "Kinder Eggs". LOL. EA is just pure scum. Always have been... always will be. Nintendo does the same thing. When they get a decision by a court... even a supreme court... they just keep on rolling and act like no government authority can tell them what to do. Let's not pretend this Saudi Event is some "new low" for the video game industry. This is just another day in the video game industry dudes... nothing to see here... Blizzard could easily stop this tourney if they wanted to do so. I suspect they'll just ignore the whole thing. | ||
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AlexGano
28 Posts
On May 16 2024 20:34 Poopi wrote: Well those are big countries, following your reasoning, have you been to all places in your country so you have a perfectly clear idea about what is going on? Medias are biased but not online western medias vs eastern countries, even in a single country there are medias with different biases. I don't think people on tl.net are hateful towards a country in particular, they are rather concerned about the safety of minorities in certain countries, which is a vastly different thing. And what are "English" communities? I am not English for instance, I am French, and we just speak English on tl.net because that's the language that established itself as the international one over the centuries through UK / USA. But the tl.net community is comprised of starcraft fans from many different countries. It is a Starcraft (both BW+SC2) community forum. Unfortunately the bias is actually more like western vs eastern when the term “eastern” refers to Russia and China. And of course I know that most of people here don't actually hold hate to these countries they have never been to. But still unfortunately, most of people from my country believe western world hates them. When today we hear one fellow is killed in US and tomorrow another one is robbed, more bad news like these keeps coming. That's how biased media actually works. And at the same time western media are doing similar things to you. Back to Saudi problem, my answer is resistance can't change anything, because the resistance can only leave a impression that you are hating them. Only when you are ready to communicate friendly, then they are ready to hear and change. That may be done in several generations, slowly and painfully, but it will be done. | ||
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AlexGano
28 Posts
On May 16 2024 23:27 Cyro wrote: Pretty hard when you get arrested/tortured/killed for just showing up while having the wrong characteristics. The Russian government is in the middle of killing a bunch of my friends right now because they want more land, so nah we shouldn't hold our tournaments in Moscow either. Let me quote the answer I posted before "I don't want to talk a lot about Russia-Ukraine problem but NATO is never a friendly military organization to Russia. Let Ukraine get in NATO is just putting Russia under knife of US." | ||
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AlexGano
28 Posts
On May 16 2024 19:34 Lambertus wrote: Hi Alex, my questions, my critisism and my judgements are not based on hate. That is a very strong word that I would not use. It makes me sad that you seem to perceive my and others people statements and thoughts as a hate against your and others cultures and norms. Sorry if my words hurts you. That's not what I want. And you can read my answer at #46. Thanks. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7136 Posts
On May 17 2024 10:04 AlexGano wrote: Let me quote the answer I posted before "I don't want to talk a lot about Russia-Ukraine problem but NATO is never a friendly military organization to Russia. Let Ukraine get in NATO is just putting Russia under knife of US." Ukraine was not going to join NATO. Russia decided to invade anyway and gained 1400km of border with NATO due to Finland and Sweden joining. Nothing forced Russia to invade with genocidal intentions. Dont whitewash this shit. | ||
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Lambertus
South Africa977 Posts
On May 17 2024 10:05 AlexGano wrote: Sorry if my words hurts you. That's not what I want. And you can read my answer at #46. Thanks. Thank you for your answer! | ||
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Lambertus
South Africa977 Posts
On May 17 2024 08:02 JimmyJRaynor wrote: +1, good points. the sky ain't falling guys. It is not going to lead any where because this is what the video game industry has been all about since it started in the 1970s. Turning a blind eye to this Saudi tourney does not surprise me in the least. The video game industry is really shadey. The industry attracts shadey people and also encourages illegal//unethical behaviours of people and companies who normally would not behave so poorly. + Show Spoiler + Mattel WAS a generally on-the-level solid company with a solid track record until 1979. Mattel super fucked over their video game customers in their "Mattel Electronics" division in the early 1980s and late 1970s. Maple Story scams for over a decade and receives a tiny fine. www.youtube.com Because of the omnipresence of social media apps today we hear a lot about all the scams in which video game companies are involved. However, based on the research I've done the industry was just as bad in the 70s, 80s, 90s as it is today. Even the pinball machine industry proceeding the video games were nefarious and shadey. The Pinball Machine makers got slapped down for including gambling elements in their Pinball Games... and they ignored government demands and just kept on rolling. 50 years later.. .EA does the same damn thing. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-fined-10m-over-loot-boxes-as-dutch-court-sides-with-gambling-authority EA was told to remove or alter their loot box mechanics. They refused and decided to take it all the way to a judge's decision. EA said their loot boxes were like "Kinder Eggs". LOL. EA is just pure scum. Always have been... always will be. Nintendo does the same thing. When they get a decision by a court... even a supreme court... they just keep on rolling and act like no government authority can tell them what to do. Let's not pretend this Saudi Event is some "new low" for the video game industry. This is just another day in the video game industry dudes... nothing to see here... Blizzard could easily stop this tourney if they wanted to do so. I suspect they'll just ignore the whole thing. I agree that corporate greed and questionable values were and are always part of capitalism and so from the gaming industry! My statement was intended as a more general question - stuff like this (sports washing) is supposed to change peoples perceptions in the long term, that was what I was referring to  And as we can see, I might very well be successful in some cases. On the other hand I feel like FIFA fucked up and will sooner or later reap the rewards. The football European Championship is one thing, but the plans for the World Cup are just hideous! At least in my circles I know a lot of people who actually already stopped watching football, and for Germans that means a lot :-D | ||
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AlexGano
28 Posts
On May 17 2024 14:50 Luolis wrote: Ukraine was not going to join NATO. Russia decided to invade anyway and gained 1400km of border with NATO due to Finland and Sweden joining. Nothing forced Russia to invade with genocidal intentions. Dont whitewash this shit. "not going to join NATO" lmao, you can even read related information from wiki. Bro you need to learn more about international news before expressing your anger. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7136 Posts
On May 17 2024 17:05 AlexGano wrote: "not going to join NATO" lmao, you can even read related information from wiki. Bro you need to learn more about international news before expressing your anger. NATO was not going to accept Ukraine into it lmaoooo. And as i said, all Putin managed to do with this invasion was to gain 1400km of border with NATO and the baltic sea under NATO control, while managing to lose a shitton of soldiers and equipment in his 2 day war that has lasted over 2 years now. You are a disgrace. | ||
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AlexGano
28 Posts
On May 17 2024 17:27 Luolis wrote: NATO was not going to accept Ukraine into it lmaoooo. And as i said, all Putin managed to do with this invasion was to gain 1400km of border with NATO and the baltic sea under NATO control, while managing to lose a shitton of soldiers and equipment in his 2 day war that has lasted over 2 years now. You are a disgrace. You can call me anything if this makes you feel better. NATO’s hesitation about Ukraine's membership is actually a worry about being totally involved in war against Russia. But their military support has proven their attitudes. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7136 Posts
On May 17 2024 18:38 AlexGano wrote: You can call me anything if this makes you feel better. NATO’s hesitation about Ukraine's membership is actually a worry about being totally involved in war against Russia. But their military support has proven their attitudes. Of course we would support a country that is being invaded by a genocidal country. The only shame is that we haven't supported them more. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
Oh yah, saudi arabian officials torture and killing people whose opinion dont match the official position. I swear, every time saudi arabia comes into focus on this site, some clown account turns up to completely derail the topic. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20318 Posts
On May 17 2024 18:57 Branch.AUT wrote: Suddenly we are discussing nato, ukraine and russia. What was this thread about again? Oh yah, saudi arabian officials torture and killing people whose opinion dont match the official position. I swear, every time saudi arabia comes into focus on this site, some clown account turns up to completely derail the topic. Almost like they're getting paid blood money to do it | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
On May 17 2024 15:51 Lambertus wrote: I agree that corporate greed and questionable values were and are always part of capitalism and so from the gaming industry! My statement was intended as a more general question - stuff like this (sports washing) is supposed to change peoples perceptions in the long term, that was what I was referring to And as we can see, I might very well be successful in some cases. On the other hand I feel like FIFA fucked up and will sooner or later reap the rewards. The football European Championship is one thing, but the plans for the World Cup are just hideous! At least in my circles I know a lot of people who actually already stopped watching football, and for Germans that means a lot :-DPart of it is a capitalist thing. Part of it is the very nature of the "video game playing" activity. The industry promises thrill rushes for people with spare time. THe video game industry and its supporting structures tries to get you playing games longer and longer because they know it means you'll spend more and more money. Its not like this industry is guilding teachers how to better teach children. The industry is not guiding gardeners how to get better at growing plants. "Game playing" isn't exactly a noble activity. "Video Game Playing" is a bit of a vice. Personally, I enjoy video games in my spare time, However, I do not imagine I am some noble soul for having lots of spare time. The PC Bangs I've been to over the years had a substantial portion of the customer base that were angry self absorbed addicts of some form. Based on the research I've done Pinball Halls and Video Game arcades of the 70s and 80s were really scummy places filled with shadey characters and plenty of violence. We see this manifested today with game franchise community managers under constant threat. There is a War going on right now between the CMs and the most avid players of their games. The corporations make massive lofty promises with the most amazing nirvana like game experiences coming in the future. Just give them lots of money. They need 8 years to make a game. So we need lots and lots of money... billions. Some players buy into the hype and spend their money believing these promises are real. The game fails to meet up to the lofty, extravagent promises the marketing people make. Some players get super angry. Rinse and Repeat. The CMs are the "Crash Dummies" of these corporations and they are used to deflect incoming fire from the angry player base who feels they were mislead. The justification for this Saudi event is a trascendent life experience for both the competitors and the viewers. It will be the most amazing thing ever... they promise. Look at all this amazing prize money! It is now somehow self evident that this event is amazing for everyone because it has a lot of money in it. To THat I Say This: " It has been said that money is the root of all evil. Has any one ever asked, `what is the root of money?` " | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 17 2024 20:05 Cyro wrote: Almost like they're getting paid blood money to do it I mean, I wouldn't jump to conclusions right here. Just when we have our very own JimmyJ dragging his 1970s video game shtick around the very same thread. With him, I'm confident it's not blood money. The other guy though... smells a lot like distraction-gambit-rage-bait. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
On May 17 2024 20:56 Branch.AUT wrote: I mean, I wouldn't jump to conclusions right here. Just when we have our very own JimmyJ dragging his 1970s video game shtick around the very same thread. With him, I'm confident it's not blood money. it is tied to the nature of the activity of video game playing. so it is woven through the entire history of the industry and even before that with pinball machines. so its not just the 70s. its the 60s, 80s, and 90s and every year leading up to today. it is no big surprise IF blood money happens to be flowing into such a shadey industry. On May 17 2024 18:57 Branch.AUT wrote: Suddenly we are discussing nato, ukraine and russia. What was this thread about again? Oh yah, saudi arabian officials torture and killing people whose opinion dont match the official position. I swear, every time saudi arabia comes into focus on this site, some clown account turns up to completely derail the topic. +1. good points man. | ||
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