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On March 24 2024 08:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2024 08:31 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On March 24 2024 08:23 WombaT wrote:On March 24 2024 05:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On March 23 2024 15:14 swarminfestor wrote:On March 23 2024 10:06 jy_9876543210 wrote:On March 23 2024 09:42 Kitai wrote:On March 23 2024 03:02 Mmakorea wrote:
Don’t worry Rogue fans, ARTOSIS has Rogue as the undisputed goat Artosis literally said there is no undisputed GOAT. But if he was forced to pick he would pick Rogue. rogue is the GOAT in my eyes, I don't care what others think  Funny if Rogue starts playing competitively next weeks, and suddenly wins the Code S and World Championship title, would his ranking be affected? I don't think so. The lack of presence of Rogue in these two years back didn't seem to hurt his GOAT ranking place so much that they would still confidently put Serral ahead of him. Serral zealot fans coupled with "some" caster bias will not budge if Rogue is ahead of him in any achievement in coming years onward as they believe so just like they thought Maru shouldn't in the first place. At least for me, if Rogue won a Code S and a WC, it would make me easily put him back above Maru, and have a strong argument vs Serral for GOAT (like within a 40:60 or 60:40 range) Because before Rogue left for military, I had Rogue slightly over Maru (highest WC achievement with 3x wins, and highest # of GSLs won at 4, tied with Maru), and Maru racked up 3 weaker GSLs with Rogue also gone. So Rogue coming back to win Code S without Maru would show that yeah he's still got it. And if he gets a 4th WC win then Serral only has 3 WC tier win (since Kato isn't officially a WC), so he has at least 1 metric above Serral. And it would show that Rogue and Serral are still competitive for who is the most successful LotV player, since Serral finished his small dip in performance and started being really strong in 2021-22 right before Rogue left. So if Rogue is back and gives Serral a run for his money, it definitely would make him a very serious contender for #1 in my eyes, even if his winrate isn't as high as Serral's. Yeah it's certainly a close call all round. I had him at 3 personally because Maru comfortably outdid him in the strongest era of the game, and Serral at least in consistency did so in this 2018-onwards era. So to place Rogue at #1 overall for me is a bit odd, but nothing crazy, they are slim margins after all. I think we're at the stage that even if Rogue did come back and add a few champs, the decline has/will really have set in, so I'm not sure it moves the needle all that much. To be fair I'm not just applying that to Rogue, I think if Serral did go to Code S and take one, it's maybe too late in the day to significantly alter my perception of him all that much too. With the GOAT debate I really think it comes down to what one could have done in the past rather than anything they can actually do moving forwards. Rogue's missing those statement HoTS/early Legacy individual honours from his resumé, those aren't something he can really rectify if he does come back. Serral is lacking those Starleague participations, but for me anyway the field has really contracted that, even though I still think it would be cool I don't think he'd be proving much if he went now. Certainly less than if he'd gone 5/6 years ago. Maru can maybe move the needle if he gets that WC monkey off his back, although even if he does he's still likely to lag some of the others by at least a couple, maybe more. Plus in the interim Serral may augment his particular claim, namely just consistent numbers and general dominance. Even if Serral hadn't won Katowice he's coming off one of the most ridiculous runs of all time, and there's no sign of him particularly easing off. If Serral continues in this vein but say, Maru takes Gamers 8 I'm still not sure I'd switch them around in my personal ranking. If Maru wins another Starleague well, 8-0 in his favour over Serral isn't all that much better than 7-0. Certain boats have been missed methinks, and I don't see em sailing back anytime soon. If Maru had had a really dominant year across the circuit outside of Code S, if Serral had been active in Code S for a while and snagged a couple + denied Maru a few. From January 2023 thru now Serral is 362–86 (80.80%) in games and 147–14 (91.30%) in matches. I don't think Maru with his injuries is capable of such a span anymore, and even if he was I mean Serral's already done it, and he may have as strong a remainder of 2024. And as mentioned before if Serral goes to Code S right now he might snag one, but it doesn't really answer the kind of question it once wouldn't have as that tournament has winded down quite a bit from where it once was. Yeah i guess that makes it a pretty good time to be having the GOAT debate, with SC2 entering its twilight for real now. Curious to see where the needle might move though once Serral/Maru have both retired and we can give things one last look! (Also fingers crossed Microsoft gives a little love to SC2 and we're able to revive GSL and bring new interest into it. But it'd have to guarantee support for like 6-8 years minimum or something, in order for newer players to feel it's safe to invest a future into pursuing this game... since it can take a long time to get good. Plus there's also just the issue of a lack of interest RIP with little content creation, the game being old, smaller audiences and smaller glory, and Kespa/TV not being a thing anymore. It makes me sad thinking that the smaller a scene gets, the harder it'll be to regain interest. Best case i guess is they make a SC3 that's like SC2 but a little slower and more positional/tactical like BW. I wonder how much interest that'd gain as an esport...). Aye, the pessimist in me feels even if such support did come it might be too little, too late, especially as Korea is concerned. I think the Saudi money is basically immaterial in terms of the wider game's health. If you'd had that money a few years ago and distributed in other ways than basically making another big tournament for the game's top players, maybe it has at least some impact. Or if GSL had turned to things like crowdfunding a little earlier in the day
Yeah it really sucks that GSL didn't crowdfund earlier. I wonder if maybe it wasn't desirable to their sponsors or such, to basically say "we're sponsored by Hot6ix but it's actually we're not happy enough with the money they're giving".
Would have been awesome to have money distributed in a more sustainable way too. And if only Gamers8 could have happened like 2-3 years ago too... in 2020 when TY was peaking and we still had random new blood with potential like Percival, his TvZ with Rogue was crazy.
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rogue is back ！he is 6100mmr now
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On March 31 2024 03:40 serralbest wrote:
rogue is back ！he is 6100mmr now
Wow great news! Hope he can reach the height he was before! Can't wait for more "unorthodox" gameplay in the new patch from him XD
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On March 31 2024 04:16 jy_9876543210 wrote:Wow great news! Hope he can reach the height he was before! Can't wait for more "unorthodox" gameplay in the new patch from him XD
That was sooner than I thought! He missed 5 GSLs and 2 IEM world championships. Notice how Koreans stopped winning oversea tournaments while Rogue is gone 
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omg is rogue really back, let's go!! lol
dang too bad he's not gonna qualify for EWC, or is there still a chance? is there anything to win left to get in?
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On March 31 2024 06:50 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
omg is rogue really back, let's go!! lol
dang too bad he's not gonna qualify for EWC, or is there still a chance? is there anything to win left to get in?
ESL Spring has open sign ups. Chances are rogue could play in the main event. If he's good enough to get top 4 at the main event, he's automatically qualified for EWC. Alternatively, he can try his luck at the EWC open qualifiers, though only two players advance via that route. All in all, there is a decent chance rogue makes EWC, considering most of the heavy hitters will get qualified through other means besides the EWC open qualifiers
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On March 31 2024 07:30 lokol4890 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2024 06:50 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
omg is rogue really back, let's go!! lol
dang too bad he's not gonna qualify for EWC, or is there still a chance? is there anything to win left to get in? ESL Spring has open sign ups. Chances are rogue could play in the main event. If he's good enough to get top 4 at the main event, he's automatically qualified for EWC. Alternatively, he can try his luck at the EWC open qualifiers, though only two players advance via that route. All in all, there is a decent chance rogue makes EWC, considering most of the heavy hitters will get qualified through other means besides the EWC open qualifiers
If he can qualify to primer tournament with just mere weeks playing, he may be the first one to do so.
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On April 01 2024 18:50 serralbest wrote:
gg rougue 0-2 nightmare
but solid games? because NIgthMare is something like a korean Showtime in terms of skill so no surprises there.
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United States1932 Posts
On April 01 2024 19:42 Argonauta wrote:but solid games? because NIgthMare is something like a korean Showtime in terms of skill so no surprises there.
This same sort of thing happened after another Rogue article...
![[image loading]](/staff/Mizenhauer/rogue.jpg)
And, of course, shitposters had to get their jabs in.
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On April 01 2024 18:50 serralbest wrote:
gg rougue 0-2 nightmare
which match are you referring to?
Edit: Is there any live stream?
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On April 01 2024 21:51 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2024 19:42 Argonauta wrote:On April 01 2024 18:50 serralbest wrote:
gg rougue 0-2 nightmare but solid games? because NIgthMare is something like a korean Showtime in terms of skill so no surprises there. This same sort of thing happened after another Rogue article... And, of course, shitposters had to get their jabs in.
Yes now that Rogue's back it's the perfect time for Scarlett to make Ro8 in GSL
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On April 01 2024 23:43 swarminfestor wrote:which match are you referring to? Edit: Is there any live stream?
Korea Weekly Tournament
6 hours ago
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On April 02 2024 00:25 serralbest wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2024 23:43 swarminfestor wrote:On April 01 2024 18:50 serralbest wrote:
gg rougue 0-2 nightmare which match are you referring to? Edit: Is there any live stream? Korea Weekly Tournament 6 hours ago
Thanks. But, i don't think there is a livestream for ro32 right?
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On April 02 2024 04:39 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2024 00:25 serralbest wrote:On April 01 2024 23:43 swarminfestor wrote:On April 01 2024 18:50 serralbest wrote:
gg rougue 0-2 nightmare which match are you referring to? Edit: Is there any live stream? Korea Weekly Tournament 6 hours ago Thanks. But, i don't think there is a livestream for ro32 right?
waridi live
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rogue is 6400mmr now
and rougue will vs oliveira 3 hours later
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On April 05 2024 19:17 serralbest wrote:
rogue is 6400mmr now
and rougue will vs oliveira 3 hours later
he used to be 7k before military no joke. 6400 is still good though if he is actively laddering. i think its a weird situation now cuz i dont see too many active kr ladder accounts. tournaments should be a good indicator of where his level is at. I think most players practice in private.
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Rogue 1:4 Oliveira. Had a great showing in G1 with late game mastery, then Oliveira crushed him with 4 straight tank push games. Still impressive considering he just came back from military, and Oliveira himself admits that the new maps heavily favors tank plays.
Apparently Oliveira also won 3:2 against Serral and 5:0 Shin in their practices in past few days, he's feeling great about TvZ in the new patch. But that's a bit beyond the topic of this thread.
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On April 06 2024 00:53 Nasigil1 wrote:
Rogue 1:4 Oliveira. Had a great showing in G1 with late game mastery, then Oliveira crushed him with 4 straight tank push games. Still impressive considering he just came back from military, and Oliveira himself admits that the new maps heavily favors tank plays.
Apparently Oliveira also won 3:2 against Serral and 5:0 Shin in their practices in past few days, he's feeling great about TvZ in the new patch. But that's a bit beyond the topic of this thread.
That doesn't look bad at all for rogue's chances to qualify to the big events later this year. If oliveira truly is this on point, taking a game off him, late game no less, is pretty sick.
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On April 06 2024 00:53 Nasigil1 wrote:
Rogue 1:4 Oliveira. Had a great showing in G1 with late game mastery, then Oliveira crushed him with 4 straight tank push games. Still impressive considering he just came back from military, and Oliveira himself admits that the new maps heavily favors tank plays.
Apparently Oliveira also won 3:2 against Serral and 5:0 Shin in their practices in past few days, he's feeling great about TvZ in the new patch. But that's a bit beyond the topic of this thread.
New maps are going to mask the impact of the mine nerf and then we'll get a Zerg favored map pool right before the EWC where tanks are useless and mines will have much lower impact due to the patch.
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EPT
