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Canada8989 Posts
God dammit Maru
A folk history of Maru international disappointment
Cologne 2013 – A 15 years old OSL champion came to Germany with the opportunity to shutdown any doubters as he entered a tournament as the favorite for the first time in his life, instead he crumbled in 4 straight maps against Scarlett and aLive. We had witness Maru crumble for the first time.
Blizzcon 2013 – After two successive exits at the hands of Dear, it seemed like the door to the world championship final opened wide when Jaedong managed to dispatch of Maru’s nemesis, yet a lackuster and uninspired tvz left him in the crowd for the final. “He’ll have plenty of chance’’ we still taught.
IEM Taipei 2015 – How hard is it to make a freaking wall?
Blizzcon 2015 – Maru’s second trip to Anaheim saw him get 3-0 by his teammates Rogues, plenty of that to come.
WESG 2016 – One of the biggest paydays in history and a tournament with literally two contenders, you better believe Maru got second.
IEM Katowice 2018 – Reverse sweep by Rogue.
Blizzcon 2018 – A mostly retired sOs at least had the decency to give him the slightest of push down as he jumped down a cliff. What better way to cap off an historical back-to-back-to-back GSL run than having your biggest meltdown yet?
WESG 2018 – Capping off a back-to-back-to-back-to-back GSL run with another bust off course! Oh, also he forgot his building can fly in a 10 000$ match.
Blizzcon 2019 – Just because zerg was OP, doesn’t mean we didn’t have at least a bit of hope he wouldn’t get 3-0 in embarrassing fashion.
IEM Katowice 2020 – Throwing away two match points when you are against Rogue is probably not a great idea.
IEM Katowice 2021 – Up 2-0 against Reynor, he managed to completely forget how to play his turtle mech style. Hey this time it wasn’t Rogue that reversed swept him!
IEM Katowice 2022 – Yay, we finally got Serral-Maru, also he got bopped. Shocking.
Dreamhack Valencia – Covid is finally over, Maru can get back to do what he does best, bringing GSL champion level play to die in Europe. He actually made us believe, the little rascal, but recomposed himself and threw two championship points away.
IEM Katowice 2023 – A true work of art.
God dammit Maru
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Well that... didn't take long. Shouldn't the last entry be 'work' of art tho ?
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 13 2023 06:09 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
Well that... didn't take long. Shouldn't the last entry be 'work' of art tho ?
I may be slightly too agitated to write 
Loving your signature, at least it was an unforgettable run
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Where is DH Atlanta? Unseige the tank right the moment the Stalker Blink in?
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On February 13 2023 06:11 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 06:09 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
Well that... didn't take long. Shouldn't the last entry be 'work' of art tho ? I may be slightly too agitated to write Loving your signature, at least it was an unforgettable run
Thank you - and congrats on the mini-writeup. I also am disappointed at Maru missing his Messi moment, but I truly am elated for TIME.
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France12904 Posts
Being a Maru fan is difficult!
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Makes you wonder how many tournaments Maru would have won if he was actually clutch.
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Its not even about "being clutch", its about being discipline enough to do play your most complete game in the biggest stage, do the proper build, tech up, actively scout, ect... I dont need him to crush people in the Final like Rogue, but Jesus dont throw your game away on stupid play like that. This is WAY worse than the GSL Final loss to Rogue imo.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 13 2023 06:23 tigera6 wrote:
Its not even about "being clutch", its about being discipline enough to do play your most complete game in the biggest stage, do the proper build, tech up, actively scout, ect... I dont need him to crush people in the Final like Rogue, but Jesus dont throw your game away on stupid play like that. This is WAY worse than the GSL Final loss to Rogue imo.
Same, the shot of that single lone medivac flying straight into the natural of Time, over a cyclone, will stay in my mind for a long time
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I have learned so much about how to play TvT by watching Maru play and in that series it just looked like he had forgotten all of the lessons that he taught me about how gain, maintain and execute an advantage in the match up.
How many games I've watched him demonstrate how control of the skies is SUPER important in late game match ups and how he's used it to snatch battles away from larger armies with it.
It's just so mind boggling to watch, especially after he looked so damn crisp and polished two days ago when he absolutely SCHOOLED Byun and Bunny in the group stages. He looked crisp and dominant in his form today when he absolutely massacred Solar and Ragnarok in seemingly effortless fashion.
And then in that series, it's like he wasn't even the same player that had just done those things.
I don't get it.
Goddamnit Maru!
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This is so bad that I rather him lost to any of the Zerg like Serral and Reynor straight up, like he technically did better than them in this IEM but the feeling is just worse for me personally.
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In the live thread I mentioned that I was happy to not to be a big Maru fan, during that final game, but you are making it sound like it's just a bad idea to be one in general.
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United States1900 Posts
Remember how I wrote in that one article how I thought Maru was never going to win a tournament again? This is the type of stuff that made me feel that way.
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France12904 Posts
On February 13 2023 07:08 SootShade wrote:
In the live thread I mentioned that I was happy to not to be a big Maru fan, during that final game, but you are making it sound like it's just a bad idea to be one in general.
He can still make some magic happen! That defense of the big attack in his main late into the last game was wonderful, he looked so dead right there but managed to give us hope for a few more minutes!
Despite all of his losses, he is still the highest rated player by other pros. For most of the players being a runner-up would be a dream come true but people here are like «wtf Maru why you lose », whereas the reality is that Oliveira was having the run of his life.
Defeating HeroMarine, Reynor and herO consecutively is not an easy thing either, Oliveira was on fire and each win gave him more and more momentum
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On February 13 2023 07:08 SootShade wrote:
In the live thread I mentioned that I was happy to not to be a big Maru fan, during that final game, but you are making it sound like it's just a bad idea to be one in general.
Well, its just like being a fan of a sport franchise that almost never win despite of the talent they have, like the Cowboys in the NFL. Every time he/they lost, we have to search our soul to find a good reason for it and how it will get better in the next year. And it keep happen again, and again, and again.
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Don't know if I've ever posted on TL, but feel compelled to because I'm so devastated after that loss (even though I'm also conflicted in being happy for Oliveira). I want to say that even though he couldn't convert today, it's an absolute pleasure to watch Maru play. Even though he couldn't pull it off, he still brings so much to the scene and shows brilliant moments. My only solace after this is appreciating what he brings to the game, and hoping he can bounce back from this in time for GSL. I'm trying to make sure I appreciate him before he leaves for the military
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On February 13 2023 07:20 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2023 07:08 SootShade wrote:
In the live thread I mentioned that I was happy to not to be a big Maru fan, during that final game, but you are making it sound like it's just a bad idea to be one in general. Well, its just like being a fan of a sport franchise that almost never win despite of the talent they have, like the Cowboys in the NFL. Every time he/they lost, we have to search our soul to find a good reason for it and how it will get better in the next year. And it keep happen again, and again, and again.
Come on man, it's almost like you talk from someone similar to soO or Fantasy, not from a guy with G5L achievment.
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i think if he opted for a macro oriented play his chances would have been better, but he wanted to finish of the games earlier and a few engagements that didnt go in his favor... luck was also a factor... it is unfortunate, but oliviera (time), just played a clean and better game... yea it stings but a terran still won at the end of the day.
when all said and done maru still made bank lol. but there is always next year. hes still young and has two - three years to get if the SC2 goes that far into the future, that being said, he can still claim a few more gsl's under his belt.
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All this tells me is that tournaments with lots of prep between rounds are bad at determining who the best player really is 
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Now that Dark is going to the military, I hope Maru can mentally recover from this and win the next one.
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God dammit Maru.... Just play like yourself
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On February 13 2023 07:35 Riner1212 wrote:
i think if he opted for a macro oriented play his chances would have been better, but he wanted to finish of the games earlier and a few engagements that didnt go in his favor... luck was also a factor... it is unfortunate, but oliviera (time), just played a clean and better game... yea it stings but a terran still won at the end of the day.
when all said and done maru still made bank lol. but there is always next year. hes still young and has two - three years to get if the SC2 goes that far into the future, that being said, he can still claim a few more gsl's under his belt.
Luck is also a product of design, you dont need to flip a coin in these kind of situation. Taking NOTHING away from Oliveira and his magical run, but all he did in some of the game was sitting at home and wait for Maru to messed up, losing units for free then push across the map with 10-12 units advantage and win the game.
And I believe that Maru will be able to win at least 2 or even 3 more GSL before he leave for military, but at this moment I just cant get rid of this sour taste from this debacle. Personally, I think this was the best chance for Maru to win a World Title, given how all the Zerg under-performed, herO was also down in PvT, ect. I am positive that there will never be such a good opportunity again for him, and until he "fix the wrongdoing" by actually winning ONE world title, all those GSL title and prize money doesnt mean shit to me.
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I mean, I thought after game 1 that maru is playing pretty well, and lost three games in a roll. Then in the middle of game 5 I thought he have a good chance at stablizing and do his stuffs. And he lost that game too.
But I am extremely happy as a Chinese community member and I just can't smiling right now.
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Too soon, too soon
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Can someone edit this title so people don't get spoiled?
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 13 2023 08:34 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Can someone edit this title so people don't get spoiled?
Oh, didn't think of that, I can't do it sadly, maybe a mod could step in?
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Maru is Schrödinger's Terran. He is both the best player in the world and the worst at any given time and we only know wich one he is as the games play out.
Also everytime he is in an international stage.
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I don't blame typical Maru choking since other great players also fell to Time...
But is this Innoveira or something? Coming out alive out of a BO7 against Maru in TvT is reserved for some of the best players of all time.
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With performances like this you would almost always say this is a product of nerves or something, but it seems almost laughable to say that about someone who many believe is the greatest of all time
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Awww poor Maru… He seems lost after G2. Seems like he always have this mentality issue. Or maybe he just went blank as he was preparing extremely for herO/Dark/Reynor and when suddenly it’s Oliveira he’s like OMG I don’t have a plan for TvT. Hopefully he comes back strong next IEM.
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Maru is the greatest Terran ever. Only MVP comes close.
He lost a single series to someone who was on fire. Relax.
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On February 13 2023 10:36 BronzeKnee wrote:
Maru is the greatest Terran ever. Only MVP comes close.
He lost a single series to someone who was on fire. Relax.
Not sure how to put it, but winning a world championship would "complete" his already great career. I think at this point he'd probably value winning IEM Katowice over winning another 2, maybe even 3 gsls. I think people are sad because they feel like he'll probably never get as good of a chance as he did today.
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I don't really get this. Maru has the second highest earnings of any Starcraft 2 pro player. Imagine what it must feel like for people who have a protoss player as their favorite player to root for. The top 5 most earning Protoss players are all retired and most of their earnings come from pre-2018. I don't think it's right to be so negative about a player who is the most successful Terran player of all time. It was a 36 player tournament, so the odds were against any individual player winning it. Getting to the finals was an incredible achievement. No matter how good someone is, they won't win every single tournament. Maru has won more prize money than what 80% of the earth's population will earn in their lifetimes.
Anyway, I don't even remember what I'm talking about. But I think Maru fans have a lot more reasons to be happy about their favorite player winning than anyone else except for Serral fans since Serral is the only player to have earned more prize money than Maru. Hopefully I'm not coming across too negative, I just was surprised to see this reaction. If it feels this bad to have your favorite player make it to the finals of the biggest tournament then I don't even know why anyone would watch esports. Whoever your favorite player is, they won't win everything, so we should be happy for them when they do well, even if they don't win. idk, that's what I think at least.
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On February 13 2023 11:17 AcrossFromTime wrote:
I don't really get this. Maru has the second highest earnings of any Starcraft 2 pro player. Imagine what it must feel like for people who have a protoss player as their favorite player to root for. The top 5 most earning Protoss players are all retired and most of their earnings come from pre-2018. I don't think it's right to be so negative about a player who is the most successful Terran player of all time. It was a 36 player tournament, so the odds were against any individual player winning it. Getting to the finals was an incredible achievement. No matter how good someone is, they won't win every single tournament. Maru has won more prize money than what 80% of the earth's population will earn in their lifetimes.
Anyway, I don't even remember what I'm talking about. But I think Maru fans have a lot more reasons to be happy about their favorite player winning than anyone else except for Serral fans since Serral is the only player to have earned more prize money than Maru. Hopefully I'm not coming across too negative, I just was surprised to see this reaction. If it feels this bad to have your favorite player make it to the finals of the biggest tournament then I don't even know why anyone would watch esports. Whoever your favorite player is, they won't win everything, so we should be happy for them when they do well, even if they don't win. idk, that's what I think at least.
Fair points. I think a lot of Maru's fans really wanted him to win the finals because it would secure his claim as the greatest SC2 player. That's why his loss stings more than losing in a tournament that occurs more often and isn't as prestigious, like GSL or Dreamhack. With GSL, there's a feeling that there's a next time because there are (hopefully) many GSLs to win in the future but tournaments like IEM Katowice happen only once a year and at this point, Maru probably only has around 1-2 more chances to win it before going to military.
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Feel bad for Maru but Olivera was just in the zone yesterday. Even a few days before, Olivera was not the same player, just scraping by 2-3 in the group stages, almost getting knocked out by Neeb.
But not yesterday. Yesterday, Olivera was in the zone. This happens, tough luck for Maru.
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i rooted for maru but oliveira had an insanely difficult run and deserved it mroe. maru had to play solar and ragnarok, by far the two easiest opponents for him in the entire ro12. sad serral misjudged his position and threw the game vs ragnarok. if he pulled 10 drones and with 9 roaches about to pop he couldve held. serral vs maru was what i tuned in for, instead maru had a free ticket to the finals.
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On February 13 2023 11:17 AcrossFromTime wrote:
I don't really get this. Maru has the second highest earnings of any Starcraft 2 pro player. Imagine what it must feel like for people who have a protoss player as their favorite player to root for. The top 5 most earning Protoss players are all retired and most of their earnings come from pre-2018. I don't think it's right to be so negative about a player who is the most successful Terran player of all time. It was a 36 player tournament, so the odds were against any individual player winning it. Getting to the finals was an incredible achievement. No matter how good someone is, they won't win every single tournament. Maru has won more prize money than what 80% of the earth's population will earn in their lifetimes.
Anyway, I don't even remember what I'm talking about. But I think Maru fans have a lot more reasons to be happy about their favorite player winning than anyone else except for Serral fans since Serral is the only player to have earned more prize money than Maru. Hopefully I'm not coming across too negative, I just was surprised to see this reaction. If it feels this bad to have your favorite player make it to the finals of the biggest tournament then I don't even know why anyone would watch esports. Whoever your favorite player is, they won't win everything, so we should be happy for them when they do well, even if they don't win. idk, that's what I think at least.
I feel like it's a good thing that people care, for the most part. I do think a lot of the vitriol directed at especially Maru and Serral from respective fans goes too far. Disrespecting their accomplishments and stature in the game is pretty moronic to me, but again that speaks to their level.
That's partially why this IEM is so amazing--it's the exceedingly rare event where everybody is happy for the champion who had never won a Premier previously outside of China. A World Championship, at that. He'll live forever in sc2 history.
And then Maru and Serral stans are equally mad about their favorite player making once-a-career (well, a bit more often for Maru) mistakes. If that isn't legendary, what is?
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What a surprise. What a run.
Even if he never wins anything again, this is forever.
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On February 13 2023 10:36 BronzeKnee wrote:
Maru is the greatest Terran ever. Only MVP comes close.
He lost a single series to someone who was on fire. Relax.
It's not the fact he lost this series. It was the way he lost it, and how that fits into a very long pattern of blowing games against players he should beat and almost always during big international tournaments.
Watching Maru lose this series brings back the bad memories of all of the other times too.
It's a pretty common thing with passionate sports fans to feel this way after a loss.
I'm just happy Maru didn't lose like this to one of his rivals and instead lost to the cinderella story of the tournament.
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It was just inevitable, after 0-2 from Reynor Time went on 10-2 streak vs top zerg, top protoss and top terran of the world.
There was no stoping him.
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I think Maru gets exhausted on long tournament days earlier than most other players. He gets impatient and tries to end games early. This is why he does so much better in GSL than in weekend tournaments.
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Maru's gotta make the best of the chances he's given if he's to ever win this thing.
After all... Time waits for no-one.
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The Rogue vs Maru games where you say Zerg is imba, don't forget Ravens that blow up everything. It's even worse for Maru, because this was the only way to lose to Rogue. Had the games gotten to the mid game and late game, it would've been an auto win for Maru.
I genuinely think Maru was just cocky. He named himself the best sc2 player. Then when he started to get behind in the series vs Oli, he got super embarrassed. And it was easy to see that he was tilted even before putting down the first Supply Depot.
He might be the best at Starcraft, but mindset is part of determining who is the best Starcraft player.
Serral is the other player of such caliber, but he also deals with mindset issues, leaving early in a 5th game of a bo5..
I'm super happy for Oli and now that he got himself some confidence he might even do well in the GSL.
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France12904 Posts
On February 13 2023 20:35 ejozl wrote:
The Rogue vs Maru games where you say Zerg is imba, don't forget Ravens that blow up everything. It's even worse for Maru, because this was the only way to lose to Rogue. Had the games gotten to the mid game and late game, it would've been an auto win for Maru.
I genuinely think Maru was just cocky. He named himself the best sc2 player. Then when he started to get behind in the series vs Oli, he got super embarrassed. And it was easy to see that he was tilted even before putting down the first Supply Depot.
He might be the best at Starcraft, but mindset is part of determining who is the best Starcraft player.
Serral is the other player of such caliber, but he also deals with mindset issues, leaving early in a 5th game of a bo5..
I'm super happy for Oli and now that he got himself some confidence he might even do well in the GSL.
Autowin with the ravens what?
Ravens were not that strong in the matchup, it mostly was just annoying gameplay to play and watch but zergs had the tools to deal with it just fine.
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Truly unfortunate. I think Maru prepared intensely for TvZ, and some for TvP on the 11th. As QF ex-himself was composed of 5Z, 1P, 1T, and if I was a betting man, I would not have betted on the 1T to make it to the finals either - the 1T is on the complete opposite side of the bracket.
Just when we all expect him to win, like his first chance at G5L and this time, he disappoints. But hey, G5L curse was lifted last year, so there's always a chance we can see him finally winning at the biggest stage, which he more than deserves.
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I approve of this thread.
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On February 14 2023 00:31 johnnyh123 wrote:
Truly unfortunate. I think Maru prepared intensely for TvZ, and some for TvP on the 11th. As QF ex-himself was composed of 5Z, 1P, 1T, and if I was a betting man, I would not have betted on the 1T to make it to the finals either - the 1T is on the complete opposite side of the bracket.
Just when we all expect him to win, like his first chance at G5L and this time, he disappoints. But hey, G5L curse was lifted last year, so there's always a chance we can see him finally winning at the biggest stage, which he more than deserves.
That's probably true, regarding practice, but I also don't think Oliveira was spending much time worrying about practice for his match against Maru. You could say, he had to practice TvT for his Ro12 series against Heromarine, but that was the day before, and Maru had to play TvT in the groups as well. I guess he was mentally no longer prepared for TvT, but he was in the TvT group... there's no way you don't practice a decent amount of the matchup if you're in a group with Bunny, Byun and Heromarine, even if you expect that TvZ against Serral, Reynor and Dark, and maybe TvP vs herO are going to be the playoffs you have to focus on: you only get to the playoffs if you don't bomb out in TvT, and both Byun and Bunny have upset him in the fairly recent past (but not this tournament).
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Maru went 6-6 in maps in TvT in this tournament, he played beautiful TvTs vs ByuN and vs Bunny... No it wasnt his lack fo TvT his downfalll, he simply choked.
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SoCal8910 Posts
It's hard to consistently win at the highest level in any competitive environment. He might not win every single time he makes it to the finals, but he consistently finds a way to make it to the later stages of every tournament he plays in.
Go to his liquipedia page and look how many tournaments he's made it to the semis in. Truly remarkable.
I don't think he played his best but this level of consistency is ridiculous.
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France12904 Posts
On February 14 2023 05:47 BluemoonSC wrote:
It's hard to consistently win at the highest level in any competitive environment. He might not win every single time he makes it to the finals, but he consistently finds a way to make it to the later stages of every tournament he plays in.
Go to his liquipedia page and look how many tournaments he's made it to the semis in. Truly remarkable.
I don't think he played his best but this level of consistency is ridiculous.
Yeah I think people don’t appreciate enough how powerless he made Solar and RagnaroK look. It’s not like those two are pushovers: RagnaroK topped his group (which included the eventual champion, the top 1 EU player, a former GSL champion in Cure, etc.) and Solar recently won the GSL:ST.
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I said it before and I'll say it again, he either doesn't care when he reaches the grand finals or he kills himself mentally after losing one or two games.
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Canada8989 Posts
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On August 06 2023 00:54 Nakajin wrote:
I hate him so much
Why? He looked boyish and innocent right?
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Canada8989 Posts
On August 06 2023 01:10 swarminfestor wrote:Why? He looked boyish and innocent right?
That's how he get you.
He lure you in flashing those "I'm not gonna choke" eyes, then as soon as he has your trust: BAM! Out in the round of 8.
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United States1900 Posts
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Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1
It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly)
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On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly)
Someone should write another article saying Maru will never win another event please.
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On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly)
almost as wrong as the Emperor has no clothes
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United States1900 Posts
On August 06 2023 02:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly) almost as wrong as the Emperor has no clothes
these things happen
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On August 06 2023 02:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly) almost as wrong as the Emperor has no clothes
It wasn't wrong, the buffs that made the patchzergs relevant just never got reverted
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Its so damn frustrating to watch how he plays nonchalantly with build order and opening despite getting backfired so many times.
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Given how many interesting discussions are not allowed on this site, it's an embarrassment that topics like this are allowed to stay up.
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On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly)
Ahh memories...
I remember when... after Maru beat Innovation (crushed him actually) in an upset that made the TL writers so hurt that they ranked Maru 2nd to Innovation in the Power Rank.
They couldn't understand why Maru was better, because they didn't understand that the better player always wins, by definition of the word better.
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Northern Ireland25998 Posts
On August 06 2023 02:05 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2023 02:04 Charoisaur wrote:On August 06 2023 01:58 Fango wrote:Since you published the "Maru will never win another tournament, INnoVation will look back having saved terran" article, Maru has won 13 premier events including (7 GSL seasons). INnoVation has won 1 It was a great article mind, but historically wrong. Probably the most wrong on this entire site. (would be a great write up if anyone can find all the articles that aged badly) almost as wrong as the Emperor has no clothes these things happen
That classic duo were both somehow both right on the money and staggeringly incorrect simultaneously. Schrödinger’s articles
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China6330 Posts
These things happen again for some reason idk.
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Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won).
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On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won).
No one has Maru as the goat except the minority
The general consensus from fans , casters, and pros has Serral as the goat since 2020
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United States33479 Posts
This reminds me of a 5 year old DCInside thread where someone is raging about losing to fast BC's, and it gets bumped every time a pro loses a big match to BC rush 
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What pissed me off this time is that Maru knew his opening was greedy AF, and people would always try to punish him for it, either in TvZ or TvT. But he made no adjustment to the build, accepting to fight out of the hole he dug himself too many times. Was there somebody around telling him, he should try something more safe/more aggressive, or he is too stubborn to listen to advice at this point of his career.
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Rogue was considered to have surpassed Maru in KR anyways once he matched Maru's 4 GSL wins (while also having his 3 WC wins)... and with him leading the recent H2H vs Maru and crushing him in multiple finals (not too differently from how Serral vs Maru looks!)
Maru only racked up his 5th-8th GSL wins after Rogue had to leave for military and 3 of those were when GSL heavily downsized (going online too etc.)... they really don't count for much especially with Rogue gone, when we're talking about who's the #1 GOAT and whether Rogue or Maru should be above the other.
To me, Maru isn't even the greatest KR player, he's tied with Rogue at best, but in 2022 I would have given Rogue the slight edge over Maru with their recent results.
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United States1900 Posts
It's maru being maru. I accepted that more than a decade ago.
What worries me most is the fact that he was rubbing his shoulder a lot and had a pretty large dressing on his wrist.
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On August 18 2024 01:36 Blitzball04 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won). No one has Maru as the goat except the minority The general consensus from fans , casters, and pros has Serral as the goat since 2020
No one in America is an immigrant except the minority.
The general consensus from fans, citizens and foreigners is Americans are native since 1776.
I don't even think Maru is the GOAT...but man yall say silly things sometimes.
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United States1900 Posts
On August 18 2024 03:20 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 01:36 Blitzball04 wrote:On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won). No one has Maru as the goat except the minority The general consensus from fans , casters, and pros has Serral as the goat since 2020 No one in America is an immigrant except the minority. The general consensus from fans, citizens and foreigners is Americans are native since 1776. I don't even think Maru is the GOAT...but man yall say silly things sometimes.
Wow, what a nice friend you are, You're supposed to back me up 
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On August 18 2024 04:06 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 03:20 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 18 2024 01:36 Blitzball04 wrote:On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won). No one has Maru as the goat except the minority The general consensus from fans , casters, and pros has Serral as the goat since 2020 No one in America is an immigrant except the minority. The general consensus from fans, citizens and foreigners is Americans are native since 1776. I don't even think Maru is the GOAT...but man yall say silly things sometimes. Wow, what a nice friend you are, You're supposed to back me up
Brother, I love you, you know that, and I honestly don't even think it's your fault. A GOAT list is impossible to accurately produce given the best player was banned for match-fixing and the people's best player didn't start until the scene was a fragment of its former glory.
DRG Fighting
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Good time to be reading this post.
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On August 18 2024 04:29 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 04:06 Mizenhauer wrote:On August 18 2024 03:20 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 18 2024 01:36 Blitzball04 wrote:On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won). No one has Maru as the goat except the minority The general consensus from fans , casters, and pros has Serral as the goat since 2020 No one in America is an immigrant except the minority. The general consensus from fans, citizens and foreigners is Americans are native since 1776. I don't even think Maru is the GOAT...but man yall say silly things sometimes. Wow, what a nice friend you are, You're supposed to back me up Brother, I love you, you know that, and I honestly don't even think it's your fault. A GOAT list is impossible to accurately produce given the best player was banned for match-fixing and the people's best player didn't start until the scene was a fragment of its former glory. DRG Fighting
My feeling as well echoed by at least a few pro (uthermal, elazer...)
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Northern Ireland25998 Posts
On August 18 2024 02:07 tigera6 wrote:
What pissed me off this time is that Maru knew his opening was greedy AF, and people would always try to punish him for it, either in TvZ or TvT. But he made no adjustment to the build, accepting to fight out of the hole he dug himself too many times. Was there somebody around telling him, he should try something more safe/more aggressive, or he is too stubborn to listen to advice at this point of his career.
I think what’s especially odd about it is basically nobody else can squeeze out those few extra workers, never miss a unit production round and all while manouvering around quite like Maru (as a Terran anyway)
But he’s frequently super greedy as well and just well, dies.
Ok you mix it up, but for me playing so consistently greedily makes more sense if you’re not a macro machine, and cutting that corner to get the extra moolah compensate somewhat.
In TvZ I mind it less, his style usually works and you gotta be greedy to get there quickly enough. While something isn’t quite working for him there, the central idea I don’t mind as much. Adjust it a bit for opponents would be nice? Serral well, idk what he does there. But for Dark he can tone down the greed against a much less greedy, infamously aggressive Zerg. I’m not sure if he can beat Reynor in a bio slugfest, or with straight pushes every time but he has the space to be super greedy as Reynor also is, and play that defensive style and he’s done it to great effect.
In TvT it feels he’s got greedier and greedier too though, and that’s a matchup where he provably makes comebacks over and over again from deficits, through sheer mechanics, positioning or killer instinct. So play a little safer, be even and you’re probably favoured ultimately.
I suck(ed) at the game, but relative to my level I was pretty decent mechanically compared to many. Ergo I’d just always open a safe, reasonably economic opener and I’d be in a good spot to gradually make my advantages count.
What was it Artosis once said? ‘When Maru’s behind he’s even, when he’s even he’s ahead and when he’s ahead you’re dead’ to roughly paraphrase.
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On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won).
He was even winning against Serral in Game 4. But then he decided to attack on-creep with Serral being more than prepared on his attack and getting crushed like a Diamond player against a GM. Man all he had to do was to defend and trade efficiently because he already had a lot of ghosts, thors and helbats.
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Not sure why Maru is always underperforming in overseas tournaments. Lifestyle, food, and stuff for sure affects performance, but it's just sad. Shouldn't there be a coach or something that helps to fix this issue?
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On August 18 2024 14:47 SamirDuran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 01:28 Azzur wrote:
Maru is a great player, and one of the greatest. However, imho, he should never be the GOAT because he just doesn't have the mentality of a true champion. For instance, he really should've won the series against Dark, he was winning in games 3 & 5 but decide to do silly things instead of playing his natural game (which should've won). He was even winning against Serral in Game 4. But then he decided to attack on-creep with Serral being more than prepared on his attack and getting crushed like a Diamond player against a GM. Man all he had to do was to defend and trade efficiently because he already had a lot of ghosts, thors and helbats.
Nah, I looked at that games and felt that Serral was slighly ahead because he mined more gas than Maru. The attack was bad, but I think Maru knew he needed to do something there.
On August 18 2024 15:16 johnnyh123 wrote:
Not sure why Maru is always underperforming in overseas tournaments. Lifestyle, food, and stuff for sure affects performance, but it's just sad. Shouldn't there be a coach or something that helps to fix this issue?
To say him "always underperforming" is not very accurate, outside of Serral he has been the most consistent player internationally for the last 2 years or so. But I agree that he could have done better if he got properly coached/trained/conditioned.
The question is, is the team providing him those or if hes even receptive to those. The recurring theme has been he doesnt always feel good with his body, and that impacted his playstyle and decision in the game. Sometimes he looks like he has figured things out and play beautifully, the other times he just look like a complete buffoon trying to do many non-sensical things.
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On August 18 2024 09:49 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 02:07 tigera6 wrote:
What pissed me off this time is that Maru knew his opening was greedy AF, and people would always try to punish him for it, either in TvZ or TvT. But he made no adjustment to the build, accepting to fight out of the hole he dug himself too many times. Was there somebody around telling him, he should try something more safe/more aggressive, or he is too stubborn to listen to advice at this point of his career. I think what’s especially odd about it is basically nobody else can squeeze out those few extra workers, never miss a unit production round and all while manouvering around quite like Maru (as a Terran anyway) But he’s frequently super greedy as well and just well, dies. Ok you mix it up, but for me playing so consistently greedily makes more sense if you’re not a macro machine, and cutting that corner to get the extra moolah compensate somewhat. In TvZ I mind it less, his style usually works and you gotta be greedy to get there quickly enough. While something isn’t quite working for him there, the central idea I don’t mind as much. Adjust it a bit for opponents would be nice? Serral well, idk what he does there. But for Dark he can tone down the greed against a much less greedy, infamously aggressive Zerg. I’m not sure if he can beat Reynor in a bio slugfest, or with straight pushes every time but he has the space to be super greedy as Reynor also is, and play that defensive style and he’s done it to great effect. In TvT it feels he’s got greedier and greedier too though, and that’s a matchup where he provably makes comebacks over and over again from deficits, through sheer mechanics, positioning or killer instinct. So play a little safer, be even and you’re probably favoured ultimately. I suck(ed) at the game, but relative to my level I was pretty decent mechanically compared to many. Ergo I’d just always open a safe, reasonably economic opener and I’d be in a good spot to gradually make my advantages count. What was it Artosis once said? ‘When Maru’s behind he’s even, when he’s even he’s ahead and when he’s ahead you’re dead’ to roughly paraphrase.
In TvZ, its okay to be greedy but you have to mix in some aggressive build so that the opponent wont just roach rush you to dead, especially in maps where Zerg willing to take a rich gas base early. Proxy 2 racks, or 2 base all-in build as a backup for those situation should be the way to go.
The TvT build is where most of his problem is, he lost to Gumiho and Clem last year in the same way, got quick 3CC and double upgrade and die to a 2-base push from the opponent, knowing he could play more safe is the most insane thing I have watched repeatedly.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://mitarn.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/immvp.jpg?w=500&h=261)
