2020 GSL Code S Season 2 Semifinal #2: TY vs Stats
by Orlok
Despite earlier hopes that pros returning from retirement might shake things up in the Code S title picture, this season has come down to a three way battle between three very familiar faces in Legacy of the Void. The grizzled, non-military veterans still reign supreme—Rogue has planted his flag in the finals first, while TY and Stats will face off for the right to face him in the championship match.
It’s in the nature of fans to always want and expect more from players. We expect players to stay on the grind, to maintain their form, and keep showing us great StarCraft II. We get emotionally tied up with our favorites, becoming upset if they fail to play up to 100% of their potential, or if they go through an extended slump. Sometimes, we get too caught up in players' form in the present, and forget to appreciate the journeys that brought them here in the first place.
Take TY and Stats. When the KT Rolster StarCraft II squad was abruptly disbanded at the end of 2016, the two players were left with an important choice. Should they continue along the path of StarCraft II, which faced an unsure future in Korea? Or should they go back to Brood War, which had established a stable, post-KeSPA ecosystem in meanwhile. The right decision seems obvious now, but you have to look at it from the point of view of TY and Stats in 2016. They had enjoyed a good amount of success in Starcraft II—both had been core contributors to KT Rolster's Proleague campaigns, and both had made deep runs in major individual competitions. But neither of them had won a championship, which meant they were overshadowed by teammates like BW legend Flash or multiple-time GSL champion Zest. They'd go down in the history books as members of the "very good," but failed to broach the ranks of the truly great. The glass of their StarCraft II careers was both half-full and half-empty at the same time.
In an recent double-interview with their old Brood War colleague Snow, TY explained how Stats convinced him to stay the course with StarCraft II, saying they should "try a little bit longer”.
That's a rather simple explanation, but there's more meaning behind it than you might think. Both TY and Stats had their share of doubts about the sustainability of the scene and insecurity about their increasing age. Brood War had always been more popular than SC2 in South Korea, which meant there were plenty of Brood War fans who would welcome them back. They admitted to giving Brood War serious consideration, with TY even picking up the game again briefly. Far bigger names like names like Flash, Rain and SoulKey had already returned to BW and thrived, so no one would have blamed TY or Stats if they returned to their roots.
But despite that, they chose to stay. They chose to stay, brave the wilderness on their own, and adapt to a wholly new environment under the dogged belief they were capable of far greater things than they had achieved up to that point. Faith is not often rewarded in StarCraft II, so it's important to appreciate the times when it is. Stats went from being a solid player to the impenetrable shield of Aiur, becoming a dual GSL-SSL champion in 2017. TY finally cashed in on a decade's worth of potential, winning a double-jackpot at IEM Katowice and WESG 2017. They became stars in their own right, and not just supporting crew-members on the KT Rolster ship. And while it hasn't been entirely smooth-sailing ever since, no one can doubt their choice to stay was the right one.
While returnees made a valiant and visible effort this season, it seems fitting they couldn’t overcome their respective final hurdles against those who chose to grind it out. DRG and Dream both fell to Rogue, another one of the players who forged ahead into the uncertain future of StarCraft II. Rogue, TY, and Stats have let their focus lapse at times, but they've always find a way to come back to this stage and prove that their choice to stick around was right in the end.
There are plenty of career-related details which make this match interesting. TY looks to become one of the few players to ever reach back-to-back GSL finals. Stats looks to reach his thirteenth major tournament finals in StarCraft II. All of that is good and fine, and might be worth half a rank when the historians of StarCraft II compile their greatest of all time lists.
But, this time around, I'm finding myself more interested in the things that don't get displayed on a Liquipedia page. In 2016, these two players lost their jobs, the place they lived, and any plans they might have had for the future. Three and a half years later, they've proved they're more than just resilient—they were made by the pressure. What's another best-of-seven in the GSL to these two? While we might not be able to relate to them in terms of StarCraft II skill, they might make us want to try for a little bit longer.
On August 07 2020 22:44 Elentos wrote: So hey Orlok you left it out of the preview but what kind of series do you expect to see with your 4-3 prediction there
TY will do no-reaper wall-off builds each game and mind-game off hellion drops from the parting series. Stats will flip a coin about whether he can figure out what tech it is each game and that will decide the series ^_^
tl;dr: all the games will suck but maybe we'll perceive it as fun if it goes all seven
I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
I said "thought". Obviously not a guarantee, but if Stats feels that's the best way to win, whether he wins or loses with it would leave me wanting.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
I said "thought". Obviously not a guarantee, but if Stats feels that's the best way to win, whether he wins or loses with it would leave me wanting.
Nah, I think we can expect Rogue to be the aggressor should we get a PvZ finals. If the patch hits before the finals, we can basically assume it.
On August 07 2020 22:44 Elentos wrote: So hey Orlok you left it out of the preview but what kind of series do you expect to see with your 4-3 prediction there
TY will do no-reaper wall-off builds each game and mind-game off hellion drops from the parting series. Stats will flip a coin about whether he can figure out what tech it is each game and that will decide the series ^_^
tl;dr: all the games will suck but maybe we'll perceive it as fun if it goes all seven
Methinks TY will get absolutely smacked if he tries that against Stats. Having a gameplan to have your aggressive build hit before the other guy’s aggressive build, who is known to be very aggressive probably won’t fare too well against the archetypal defensive reactive player. Stats could just chill and make an early halluc Phoenix and laugh his way to the final.
I am super interested to see how it all flows though and what TY cooks up.
Their head to head is, to be charitable slightly skewed in TY’s favour, equally Stats is looking in fantastic shape lately so should (hopefully) not be another whitewash either way.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
This series should be phoenomenal on paper, but TY has an absolute monster record vs Stats. The unstoppable force definitely beats the immovable object in their history. So I expect this to be something like a 4-1 in favor of TY.
That said, Stats has a tendency to stomp terran favorites when he's counted out and lose horribly when people think it will be a good series.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
I was talking about his match tonight vs TY, he beats rogue in the finals every time, but he doesn't get there
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
I was talking about his match tonight vs TY, he beats rogue in the finals every time, but he doesn't get there
#Believe
I did miss a few years of action, that said of all the lopsided rivalries I can think of this seems one of the weirder ones.
TY swatting Parting aside last two GSLs makes sense to me as Parting has a particular style that TY seems very good at countering with some prep time.
Stats on the other hand is just the definition of a solid macro player. Especially when TY has got bopped by many a Protoss below Stats’ level over the years.
Was curious as to thoughts on this, just one of those weird outliers, maybe they’re mind melded after KT and Stats got the raw end of the deal or is it just a style clash?
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
I don't see a way any protoss can outbullshit Rogue in a preperation series now that Classic's gone. But if anyone could play macro and still win, it would be Stats.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
I don't see a way any protoss can outbullshit Rogue in a series now that Classic's gone. But if anyone could play macro and still win, it would be Stats.
Imagine a back and forth series of macro games, Rogue sneaky aggression being both successful and deflected by Aiur’s noble shield and it ending in the decider with Stats doing the ‘Classic build’. Dear lord even this incredibly unlikely hypothetical is sending shivers down my spine.
Whatever it is though, and yes he does pull the odd cheese off too but Stats just doesn’t seem to commit with the intensity that Classic did in his final year.
A crude analogy indeed but Stats is a gentle man, a man who plays Starcraft in a gentlemanly manner, a manner that Artosis himself approves of. Stats cheesing feels like a pretty vanilla dude trying to keep up with a partner who has crazy BDSM desired. I mean sure he can put a brave face and try it, and she might have the odd good time but both participants know he’s not really into it and she should probably seek out someone a bit more freaky.
I'm just excited the schedule works out so that I can actually watch this one live! My heart is rooting for TY but my head says it's a coinflip - I really have no idea who's favored here. Either way, neither of them are super cheesy or hyper-aggressive so I'm hoping for at least a few solid macro games.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
I was talking about his match tonight vs TY, he beats rogue in the finals every time, but he doesn't get there
Stats on the other hand is just the definition of a solid macro player. Especially when TY has got bopped by many a Protoss below Stats’ level over the years.
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
I was talking about his match tonight vs TY, he beats rogue in the finals every time, but he doesn't get there
#Believe
I did miss a few years of action, that said of all the lopsided rivalries I can think of this seems one of the weirder ones.
TY swatting Parting aside last two GSLs makes sense to me as Parting has a particular style that TY seems very good at countering with some prep time.
Stats on the other hand is just the definition of a solid macro player. Especially when TY has got bopped by many a Protoss below Stats’ level over the years.
Was curious as to thoughts on this, just one of those weird outliers, maybe they’re mind melded after KT and Stats got the raw end of the deal or is it just a style clash?
I would say Stats is an example of a solid macro player but not the definition. I think a definition would be more like "someone who generally doesn't lose early on and wins in big long games"
On August 07 2020 23:12 BisuDagger wrote: I'm pretty neutral towards both these players, but I hate the thought of a PvZ finals that hinges on adept all-ins. TY advancing is the best option for an entertaining finals.
Who said Stats is going to rely heavily on adepts, or all-ins for that matter?
The hypothetical finals matchup being PvZ?
If you're asking if I assume Stats wins this, then no, not in a million years.
To be fair if Stats can stick around for a million years there’s surely got to be at least a change of a swing in PvZ balance/meta to suit his style again.
I was talking about his match tonight vs TY, he beats rogue in the finals every time, but he doesn't get there
Stats on the other hand is just the definition of a solid macro player. Especially when TY has got bopped by many a Protoss below Stats’ level over the years.
Well exactly? Probably didn’t phrase it well my confusion was why Stats has such a particularly outlyingly bad record against TY. TY dismantling Parting with some prep makes a lot of sense for example but Stats having such a bad record seems odd.
We learn a few things here, TY is pretty good against Protoss for one in general to be fair. Still, Stats’ record is still weirdly bad. I’d also assume Trap is pretty good at PvT but also that TY in online cups is a less terrifying opponent than with some prep.