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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
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Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
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On August 05 2018 12:21 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.
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Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.
Exactly, they deserve to lose cuz they were arrogant. I watched INnoVation and Dark's stream before GSL vs World and none of them seemed to be aware of foreigners at all. They talked like they don't have to worry about top foreigners. But when the tourny starts, and knowing about Serral, they now realized that they have to treat Serral as other rival top Koreans just like Neeb once was in late 2016.
Even when Neeb won 3 WCS championships last year, he was still already figured by Koreans after Kespa Cup 2016.
Tomorrow result won't matter much whoever wins between Stats and Serral. I am looking forward this blizzcon what's gonna happen.
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Stats is going to need some very special tactics
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PvT like Classic,PvZ like Dear,willpower like Zest,micro like Parting,go go Stats!
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blardoh, during zest vs showtime, I could have sworn Maynard mentioned how the Korean pros don't watch VODS of foreigners. I believe they said this because zest did an opener that was completely ineffective vs showtimes style and if he had watched vod's that could have been avoided. I could be wrong, but I believe that was mentioned.
so what randononly said doesn't seem so crazy.
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Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
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Canada2764 Posts
On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
Serral's good at stuff that doesn't just include 'lings killing workers on counter-attacks'. Similarly, that's not as easy a thing to stop as 'kill him before he gets to late game'. Plenty of all-time great zergs made careers and won championships on the back of great counter-attacking timings. People will adapt and improve and I wouldn't put him as a Blizzcon favorite, but he's not as one-dimensional as Neeb, and he might be the most three-dimensional foreigner of all time (prime NaNiwa and prime Scarlett are both in the conversation, and prime NaNiwa came damn close to a blizzcon-tier championship in MLG Providence, while Scarlett was a game away from eliminating eventual champ Bomber in WCS Season 2. I expect Serral at Blizzcon to go in one of those two directions).
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On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches):
"man the koreans will crush everything"
tl after that tournament:
"that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different"
repeat ad nauseam
i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...
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On August 05 2018 15:01 uummpaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early. tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches): "man the koreans will crush everything" tl after that tournament: "that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different" repeat ad nauseam i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...
You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.
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Right, like IEM Pyeongchang..oh wait. Or like WESG....oh wait. Or like Hangzhou...oh wait.
But to be fair, one of the strengths of the Koreans is their ability to study and prepare for an opponent. Not saying that foreigners don't do that, but these top Koreans have the experience and knowledge of preparing for their opponents. Tournaments with less time to prepare for opponents generally favour foreigners because the foreigners are less known than fellow Koreans.
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On August 05 2018 15:27 Charoisaur wrote:
...
You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.
sure, showtime beating byun, special topping a group with stats and ty, serral topping two groups in IEM WC, etc all never happend.
i'm truly sorry to tell you that the world is not just black and white, just because koreans are overall better doesn't mean there are no equally strong players outside of korea who can put up a decent fight from time to time.
but keep making exuses when it happens (or ignore it completly), if that makes you happier its fine, but i keep myself the right to find these argumentations pretty childish....
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On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru.
I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro.
The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
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OMG the production value! Blizzard take notes!!
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On August 05 2018 18:15 jinroairwings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru. I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro. The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
Apart from the fact that the great Jinro did well in a very early era of SC2 which would be dominated by every player of this tournament because stuff wasn't figured out back then, this "GSL is more competetive"-statement always bothered me. It's just plain wrong. Of course the GSL is great but you don't need "more" skill to be sucessful in GSL you just need other skills than in weekend-tournaments. Weekenders demand more overall-skillfulness because you have to be more adaptive on the fly. Also Weekenders demand the ability of shorttime-preparation. GSL demands better preparation and more consistency over a longer time. This is why a weekender is more a skill peak indicator while GSL is better to demonstrate a period of dominance.
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lol maynarde a kespa cup is a higher tournament than an invitational, even one that has a fancy name such as GSL vs The world.
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What a beautiful tournament.
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I believe that I know the answer to the question already, but can people on here stop slightly pretentiously (if correct) arguing the 'bestest best historical skill levels' and join the hype for a second?
(and this post is from yesterday!)
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On August 04 2018 23:05 yubo56 wrote:Watching Serral play, I feel like I understand how non-saviOr fans must have felt during his reign of dominance. It's never very flashy, but somehow in every situation he finds the best play. There's some meta evolution going on, but the army positioning, the constant counterattack threat from Serral have been so on point lately Here to stay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/final-edits/102206-here-to-stay
Was Innovation "flashy" when he had his run at multiple titles? What about MVP or Stats when they won a GSL? Who's the flashiest player you can think of? Has would probably be it. I don't really get why flashiness is a concern at all and what that means....Serral is flashy in that he can defend the attack, counterattack you, and continue to macro. That's all the flash I need. I don't think any other Koreans are are any more or less flashy...aside from maybe early Life (weird style) and some of the crazier ones, they are few & far between though.
I just think your comment is a throwaway statement that means nothing when you break it down. Also, watch the game on Redshift, Serral vs. Dark- tell me that wasn't flashy bro.
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EPT
