• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:26
CEST 02:26
KST 09:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20? How do I speak directly to Coinbase?1-(888)-419-97 Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group D [ASL20] Ro24 Group E Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2255 users

Stats and Serral to face off in GSL vs. The World Grand Fi…

Forum Index > SC2 General
87 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
blardoh
Profile Joined June 2017
20 Posts
August 05 2018 02:42 GMT
#61
On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
Show nested quote +
I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.


Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got.

Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.


Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
Profile Joined July 2018
58 Posts
August 05 2018 03:21 GMT
#62
Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?


Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
blardoh
Profile Joined June 2017
20 Posts
August 05 2018 03:26 GMT
#63
On August 05 2018 12:21 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:
Show nested quote +
Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?


Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.


Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.
RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
Profile Joined July 2018
58 Posts
August 05 2018 03:41 GMT
#64
Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.


Exactly, they deserve to lose cuz they were arrogant. I watched INnoVation and Dark's stream before GSL vs World and none of them seemed to be aware of foreigners at all. They talked like they don't have to worry about top foreigners. But when the tourny starts, and knowing about Serral, they now realized that they have to treat Serral as other rival top Koreans just like Neeb once was in late 2016.

Even when Neeb won 3 WCS championships last year, he was still already figured by Koreans after Kespa Cup 2016.

Tomorrow result won't matter much whoever wins between Stats and Serral. I am looking forward this blizzcon what's gonna happen.
Cluster__
Profile Joined September 2013
United States328 Posts
August 05 2018 04:18 GMT
#65
Stats is going to need some very special tactics
Liquid`Snute, AcerScarlett, ROOTCatZ, MC, Maru, Soulkey, Losira
RealityTheGreat
Profile Joined January 2018
China564 Posts
August 05 2018 04:45 GMT
#66
PvT like Classic,PvZ like Dear,willpower like Zest,micro like Parting,go go Stats!
Betrayed, forgotten, abandoned.
allmotor1
Profile Joined December 2017
153 Posts
August 05 2018 05:30 GMT
#67
blardoh, during zest vs showtime, I could have sworn Maynard mentioned how the Korean pros don't watch VODS of foreigners. I believe they said this because zest did an opener that was completely ineffective vs showtimes style and if he had watched vod's that could have been avoided. I could be wrong, but I believe that was mentioned.

so what randononly said doesn't seem so crazy.
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-05 05:50:34
August 05 2018 05:50 GMT
#68
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.

Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.

Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
August 05 2018 05:57 GMT
#69
On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.

Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.

Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.

Serral's good at stuff that doesn't just include 'lings killing workers on counter-attacks'. Similarly, that's not as easy a thing to stop as 'kill him before he gets to late game'. Plenty of all-time great zergs made careers and won championships on the back of great counter-attacking timings. People will adapt and improve and I wouldn't put him as a Blizzcon favorite, but he's not as one-dimensional as Neeb, and he might be the most three-dimensional foreigner of all time (prime NaNiwa and prime Scarlett are both in the conversation, and prime NaNiwa came damn close to a blizzcon-tier championship in MLG Providence, while Scarlett was a game away from eliminating eventual champ Bomber in WCS Season 2. I expect Serral at Blizzcon to go in one of those two directions).
Writermaru pls
uummpaa
Profile Joined July 2018
238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-05 06:02:02
August 05 2018 06:01 GMT
#70
On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.

Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.

Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.


tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches):

"man the koreans will crush everything"

tl after that tournament:

"that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different"

repeat ad nauseam




i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
August 05 2018 06:27 GMT
#71
On August 05 2018 15:01 uummpaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.

Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.

Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.


tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches):

"man the koreans will crush everything"

tl after that tournament:

"that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different"

repeat ad nauseam




i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...

You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
August 05 2018 07:33 GMT
#72
Right, like IEM Pyeongchang..oh wait. Or like WESG....oh wait. Or like Hangzhou...oh wait.

But to be fair, one of the strengths of the Koreans is their ability to study and prepare for an opponent. Not saying that foreigners don't do that, but these top Koreans have the experience and knowledge of preparing for their opponents. Tournaments with less time to prepare for opponents generally favour foreigners because the foreigners are less known than fellow Koreans.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
uummpaa
Profile Joined July 2018
238 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-05 07:36:58
August 05 2018 07:36 GMT
#73
On August 05 2018 15:27 Charoisaur wrote:
...
You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.


sure, showtime beating byun, special topping a group with stats and ty, serral topping two groups in IEM WC, etc all never happend.

i'm truly sorry to tell you that the world is not just black and white, just because koreans are overall better doesn't mean there are no equally strong players outside of korea who can put up a decent fight from time to time.

but keep making exuses when it happens (or ignore it completly), if that makes you happier its fine, but i keep myself the right to find these argumentations pretty childish....
jinroairwings
Profile Joined August 2018
11 Posts
August 05 2018 09:15 GMT
#74
On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru.


I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro.

The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
August 05 2018 09:25 GMT
#75
OMG the production value! Blizzard take notes!!
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
fronkschnonk
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany622 Posts
August 05 2018 09:27 GMT
#76
On August 05 2018 18:15 jinroairwings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru.


I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro.

The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.

Apart from the fact that the great Jinro did well in a very early era of SC2 which would be dominated by every player of this tournament because stuff wasn't figured out back then, this "GSL is more competetive"-statement always bothered me. It's just plain wrong. Of course the GSL is great but you don't need "more" skill to be sucessful in GSL you just need other skills than in weekend-tournaments. Weekenders demand more overall-skillfulness because you have to be more adaptive on the fly. Also Weekenders demand the ability of shorttime-preparation. GSL demands better preparation and more consistency over a longer time. This is why a weekender is more a skill peak indicator while GSL is better to demonstrate a period of dominance.
Furthermore, I consider that some kind of Code A must be reestablished.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
August 05 2018 09:40 GMT
#77
lol maynarde a kespa cup is a higher tournament than an invitational, even one that has a fancy name such as GSL vs The world.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
WightyCity
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada887 Posts
August 05 2018 11:53 GMT
#78
What a beautiful tournament.
90% watching it 8% talking about it and 2% playing it - sc2
dicey
Profile Joined November 2010
142 Posts
August 05 2018 12:22 GMT
#79
I believe that I know the answer to the question already, but can people on here stop slightly pretentiously (if correct) arguing the 'bestest best historical skill levels' and join the hype for a second?

(and this post is from yesterday!)
Hillshtify
Profile Joined August 2018
14 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-05 13:41:25
August 05 2018 12:51 GMT
#80
On August 04 2018 23:05 yubo56 wrote:
Watching Serral play, I feel like I understand how non-saviOr fans must have felt during his reign of dominance. It's never very flashy, but somehow in every situation he finds the best play. There's some meta evolution going on, but the army positioning, the constant counterattack threat from Serral have been so on point lately

Here to stay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/final-edits/102206-here-to-stay



Was Innovation "flashy" when he had his run at multiple titles? What about MVP or Stats when they won a GSL? Who's the flashiest player you can think of? Has would probably be it. I don't really get why flashiness is a concern at all and what that means....Serral is flashy in that he can defend the attack, counterattack you, and continue to macro. That's all the flash I need. I don't think any other Koreans are are any more or less flashy...aside from maybe early Life (weird style) and some of the crazier ones, they are few & far between though.

I just think your comment is a throwaway statement that means nothing when you break it down. Also, watch the game on Redshift, Serral vs. Dark- tell me that wasn't flashy bro.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Ro16
CranKy Ducklings56
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech104
CosmosSc2 43
Vindicta 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 855
Aegong 62
NaDa 46
Purpose 20
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm71
Counter-Strike
fl0m1096
Foxcn307
Other Games
summit1g8686
Grubby2068
shahzam940
Day[9].tv750
Sick492
C9.Mang0448
ViBE248
ToD140
Mew2King48
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV39
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 61
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22337
League of Legends
• Doublelift4788
Other Games
• imaqtpie1112
• Day9tv750
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
10h 34m
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
15h 34m
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
Big Brain Bouts
15h 34m
Iba vs GgMaChine
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Reynor vs Classic
Serral vs Clem
BSL Team Wars
18h 34m
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
18h 34m
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
Code For Giants Cup
22h 4m
SC Evo League
1d 11h
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
1d 15h
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 17h
SC Evo League
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.