• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:05
CEST 22:05
KST 05:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow7[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30
Community News
MaNa leaves Team Liquid16$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy5GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled
Tourneys
SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Leta's ASL Ro24 Review [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow The Korean Terminology Thread ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The China Politics Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1956 users

SpeCial and Elazer break the mould as Stats and Dark crash…

Forum Index > SC2 General
125 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Swash91
Profile Joined June 2017
26 Posts
October 30 2017 10:53 GMT
#41
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
October 30 2017 11:47 GMT
#42
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...

Yeah, Gumiho stands no chance.
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 30 2017 11:58 GMT
#43
On October 30 2017 20:47 DBooN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...

Yeah, Gumiho stands no chance.



I really hope to see soO overcoming his ZvT struggles.

Also INno is at 92% of winrate in offline TvT since june, he is favored against TY.
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
October 30 2017 12:07 GMT
#44
Sad that Neeb crumbled, I guess he underestimated soO then lost his head would have liked to see Serral make it through but couldn't quite do it. Special has impressed me most so far out of the foreigners so I hope he makes it far.
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary487 Posts
October 30 2017 12:18 GMT
#45
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...


Gumi wasn't really that convincing in the group stage. I'm not saying hes the underdog vs soO, but its a 50-50%. It can go either way.
Why so serious?
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 30 2017 12:50 GMT
#46
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 30 2017 13:04 GMT
#47
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


I don't doubt that that was part of it. Of course, the foreigners have to be good enough in part, but it has the potential for the foreigner to have to win more games than a bo5 or to just have to win two games over a foreigner and then upset a Korean for the other two.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Ryu3600
Profile Joined January 2016
Canada469 Posts
October 30 2017 13:46 GMT
#48
Whom would win? Juan man or the machine
Maru is the best Terran ever.
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 30 2017 14:15 GMT
#49
On October 30 2017 21:18 kajtarp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...


Gumi wasn't really that convincing in the group stage. I'm not saying hes the underdog vs soO, but its a 50-50%. It can go either way.


soO will win easily.

Gumiho had to use a weird build to take game 2, and had to use all his skills to defeat serral in game 3.

And soO >> Serral.
TL+ Member
ParksonVN
Profile Joined October 2015
Australia370 Posts
October 30 2017 14:38 GMT
#50
as an Inno's fan, this is a really sad bracket draw for me, if Gumiho gets to the final, we could have a TvT finals that nobody wants, but if Soo gets there, he will become runner-up again, which is also sad.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 30 2017 14:47 GMT
#51
Inno vs soO finals plz
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Alarak'smanservant
Profile Joined May 2017
35 Posts
October 30 2017 14:55 GMT
#52
Wow what a protoss massacre. Now I am cheering for hero to take the whole thing, hope he can beat that bracket.
BitbyBit is mathematically the greatest player of all time
SpecKROELLchen
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany151 Posts
October 30 2017 15:08 GMT
#53
I hope that innovation wins. Someone moving towards a bonjwa stage would be nice for sc2 i think.

Vendethiel
Profile Joined February 2017
213 Posts
October 30 2017 16:55 GMT
#54
On October 30 2017 09:37 DinosaurJones wrote:
THEY GOT PUT AGAINST EACH OTHER? Aw, come on, not cool...

Depends if you like koreans of foreigners: at least it guarantees 100% a foreigner in ro4.

On October 30 2017 11:15 Shellshock wrote:
why did they break the mold though? 3 foreigners made it last year? gap is widening

They break the mold compared to other foreigners probably.


All in all, it's just nice that terrans won't be able to use the "no foreigners terrans bc terrans too hard" excuse .
Maru <3
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
October 30 2017 17:12 GMT
#55
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 30 2017 17:19 GMT
#56
On October 31 2017 02:12 youngjiddle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.


It's not really an excuse. bo3 series by default have a greater chance for an upset/the lesser player is more likely to win.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-30 17:27:54
October 30 2017 17:26 GMT
#57
On October 31 2017 02:19 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2017 02:12 youngjiddle wrote:
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.


It's not really an excuse. bo3 series by default have a greater chance for an upset/the lesser player is more likely to win.


That is very true, and there is no doubt that helped and has helped foreigners win. However, it does seem like the talk shifted from "foreigners only being able to beat Koreans in bo1s or online but rarely in an offline series of any length" to "foreigners are only able to beat Koreans because bo3s are too volatile."

At some point people will have to stop blaming the format or jet lag or meta changes as the main reasons why foreigners are able to beat top level Koreans.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-30 17:50:46
October 30 2017 17:50 GMT
#58
Rofl sure Showtime has won against Byunlast year because of the skill difference and not the build /s
TL+ Member
Majick
Profile Joined August 2016
416 Posts
October 30 2017 17:58 GMT
#59
It's not that bo3 favors foreigners imo but it definitely encourages sniper strats and puts solid style players at a disadvantage.

This might lead to some less epic ro8 because I am sure we would end up with a slightly different lineup if ro16 was bo5 instead.

Still I'm very happy that soO advanced and I'm gonna send him all my energy because him winning it all would be one of the most beautiful stories in sc2 history. If not him than let it be INno, let's give him that GOAT finally and move on with life, mkay?


Trizztein
Profile Joined August 2014
Canada45 Posts
October 30 2017 17:59 GMT
#60
Really hope to see soO take it all and break the curse in the best tournament possible to do it once and for all.

Elazer would be great too, obviously.

Inno I'd still be very happy too because SC2 needs a new bonjwa.

I really love how Special admitted he took his TvT build against TY from a low MMR player; it's a nice tribute to all the players out there who are able to envision excellent builds but are not able to perform them to their fullest potential due to mechanical flaws that naturally come with not practicing as much as pros. He got lucky to find it and yet admits it and does not take undue credit for it. Gogo Juanito!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#47
RotterdaM968
TKL 357
IndyStarCraft 244
SteadfastSC200
BRAT_OK 123
ZombieGrub100
EnkiAlexander 39
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 968
TKL 357
IndyStarCraft 244
SteadfastSC 200
ProTech133
UpATreeSC 126
BRAT_OK 123
ZombieGrub100
EmSc Tv 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3716
Sea 3493
Mini 665
ggaemo 157
Dewaltoss 147
Dota 2
420jenkins379
capcasts96
canceldota40
febbydoto6
Counter-Strike
fl0m4930
pashabiceps2302
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu453
Other Games
summit1g5487
Grubby3481
FrodaN1659
Beastyqt792
Mlord519
C9.Mang0189
ArmadaUGS158
Sick85
Trikslyr54
Mew2King26
MindelVK9
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL129
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
EmSc Tv 13
EmSc2Tv 13
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 168
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 22
• Eskiya23 11
• Michael_bg 7
• blackmanpl 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1634
Other Games
• Scarra1141
• imaqtpie1081
• Shiphtur311
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 55m
Afreeca Starleague
13h 55m
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
13h 55m
GSL
15h 55m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 3h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 12h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Escore
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
IPSL
4 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Ladder Legends
5 days
BSL
5 days
IPSL
5 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.