• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:47
CEST 00:47
KST 07:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th20Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
Every Matchup's Top 5 Winrates (all ASLs & KSLs) Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals BW General Discussion Very long shot - StarCraft x A7X video Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development streaming software
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2356 users

SpeCial and Elazer break the mould as Stats and Dark crash…

Forum Index > SC2 General
125 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Swash91
Profile Joined June 2017
26 Posts
October 30 2017 10:53 GMT
#41
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
October 30 2017 11:47 GMT
#42
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...

Yeah, Gumiho stands no chance.
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 30 2017 11:58 GMT
#43
On October 30 2017 20:47 DBooN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...

Yeah, Gumiho stands no chance.



I really hope to see soO overcoming his ZvT struggles.

Also INno is at 92% of winrate in offline TvT since june, he is favored against TY.
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
October 30 2017 12:07 GMT
#44
Sad that Neeb crumbled, I guess he underestimated soO then lost his head would have liked to see Serral make it through but couldn't quite do it. Special has impressed me most so far out of the foreigners so I hope he makes it far.
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary488 Posts
October 30 2017 12:18 GMT
#45
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...


Gumi wasn't really that convincing in the group stage. I'm not saying hes the underdog vs soO, but its a 50-50%. It can go either way.
Why so serious?
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 30 2017 12:50 GMT
#46
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
October 30 2017 13:04 GMT
#47
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


I don't doubt that that was part of it. Of course, the foreigners have to be good enough in part, but it has the potential for the foreigner to have to win more games than a bo5 or to just have to win two games over a foreigner and then upset a Korean for the other two.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Ryu3600
Profile Joined January 2016
Canada469 Posts
October 30 2017 13:46 GMT
#48
Whom would win? Juan man or the machine
Maru is the best Terran ever.
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 30 2017 14:15 GMT
#49
On October 30 2017 21:18 kajtarp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 19:53 Swash91 wrote:
Gumiho - Soo will be an easy 3-0...


Gumi wasn't really that convincing in the group stage. I'm not saying hes the underdog vs soO, but its a 50-50%. It can go either way.


soO will win easily.

Gumiho had to use a weird build to take game 2, and had to use all his skills to defeat serral in game 3.

And soO >> Serral.
TL+ Member
ParksonVN
Profile Joined October 2015
Australia370 Posts
October 30 2017 14:38 GMT
#50
as an Inno's fan, this is a really sad bracket draw for me, if Gumiho gets to the final, we could have a TvT finals that nobody wants, but if Soo gets there, he will become runner-up again, which is also sad.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 30 2017 14:47 GMT
#51
Inno vs soO finals plz
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Alarak'smanservant
Profile Joined May 2017
35 Posts
October 30 2017 14:55 GMT
#52
Wow what a protoss massacre. Now I am cheering for hero to take the whole thing, hope he can beat that bracket.
BitbyBit is mathematically the greatest player of all time
SpecKROELLchen
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany151 Posts
October 30 2017 15:08 GMT
#53
I hope that innovation wins. Someone moving towards a bonjwa stage would be nice for sc2 i think.

Vendethiel
Profile Joined February 2017
213 Posts
October 30 2017 16:55 GMT
#54
On October 30 2017 09:37 DinosaurJones wrote:
THEY GOT PUT AGAINST EACH OTHER? Aw, come on, not cool...

Depends if you like koreans of foreigners: at least it guarantees 100% a foreigner in ro4.

On October 30 2017 11:15 Shellshock wrote:
why did they break the mold though? 3 foreigners made it last year? gap is widening

They break the mold compared to other foreigners probably.


All in all, it's just nice that terrans won't be able to use the "no foreigners terrans bc terrans too hard" excuse .
Maru <3
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
October 30 2017 17:12 GMT
#55
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 30 2017 17:19 GMT
#56
On October 31 2017 02:12 youngjiddle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.


It's not really an excuse. bo3 series by default have a greater chance for an upset/the lesser player is more likely to win.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-30 17:27:54
October 30 2017 17:26 GMT
#57
On October 31 2017 02:19 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2017 02:12 youngjiddle wrote:
On October 30 2017 21:50 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
On October 30 2017 14:12 Boggyb wrote:
On October 30 2017 10:24 engesser1 wrote:
Overrated Neeb and underrated Major, as usual.

Neeb wasn't overrated. He was by far the best non-Korean in the world and proved that by winning literally 3/4ths of the WCS Circuit events.

SpeCial wasn't underrated unless you think it makes sense that he fails to make it to the playoffs of the last WCS circuit event but then makes the ro8 at WCS Global finals.


In a tournament like this, where the best Koreans and the best Foreigners meet, there's bound to be people who don't perform as well as they did in their original circuits as well as people who outperform their performance.

Even aside from Neeb and Major, look at Stats and Dark. I don't think most people thought that they would be out of the tournament (mostly anyways), but here we are.


That's why Blizzard swapped from a straight 16 man tournament with bests of 5 to GSL style groups with bests of 3. More volatility = more chance of non-Koreans winning.


lmao, keep finding excuses.


It's not really an excuse. bo3 series by default have a greater chance for an upset/the lesser player is more likely to win.


That is very true, and there is no doubt that helped and has helped foreigners win. However, it does seem like the talk shifted from "foreigners only being able to beat Koreans in bo1s or online but rarely in an offline series of any length" to "foreigners are only able to beat Koreans because bo3s are too volatile."

At some point people will have to stop blaming the format or jet lag or meta changes as the main reasons why foreigners are able to beat top level Koreans.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-30 17:50:46
October 30 2017 17:50 GMT
#58
Rofl sure Showtime has won against Byunlast year because of the skill difference and not the build /s
TL+ Member
Majick
Profile Joined August 2016
416 Posts
October 30 2017 17:58 GMT
#59
It's not that bo3 favors foreigners imo but it definitely encourages sniper strats and puts solid style players at a disadvantage.

This might lead to some less epic ro8 because I am sure we would end up with a slightly different lineup if ro16 was bo5 instead.

Still I'm very happy that soO advanced and I'm gonna send him all my energy because him winning it all would be one of the most beautiful stories in sc2 history. If not him than let it be INno, let's give him that GOAT finally and move on with life, mkay?


Trizztein
Profile Joined August 2014
Canada45 Posts
October 30 2017 17:59 GMT
#60
Really hope to see soO take it all and break the curse in the best tournament possible to do it once and for all.

Elazer would be great too, obviously.

Inno I'd still be very happy too because SC2 needs a new bonjwa.

I really love how Special admitted he took his TvT build against TY from a low MMR player; it's a nice tribute to all the players out there who are able to envision excellent builds but are not able to perform them to their fullest potential due to mechanical flaws that naturally come with not practicing as much as pros. He got lucky to find it and yet admits it and does not take undue credit for it. Gogo Juanito!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
19:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Gerald vs MindelVK
goblin vs TBD
Jumy vs HonMonO
SteadfastSC167
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft520
ZombieGrub175
SteadfastSC 161
ProTech83
JuggernautJason12
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 463
NaDa 13
Dota 2
capcasts111
Counter-Strike
summit1g10764
Doublelift2978
tarik_tv2606
Fnx 1498
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King124
PPMD56
Other Games
Grubby3595
Liquid`RaSZi1501
C9.Mang0218
Liquid`Hasu122
ViBE117
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL185
Other Games
BasetradeTV172
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 110
• RyuSc2 45
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21455
Other Games
• Shiphtur336
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 14m
Maestros of the Game
14h 14m
Big Brain Bouts
17h 14m
Shino vs Scarlett
Bly vs DnS
Serral vs ByuN
Replay Cast
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
1d 12h
IPSL
1d 17h
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
BSL
1d 20h
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.