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Gurbak
France622 Posts
On November 01 2017 19:37 DieuCure wrote: The only macro game was a complete stomp between a 7k mmr and a 6k3 Cheeses, allins and timing attacks are perfectly legit strats. Elazer was a better player that Dark in this bo3, deal with it. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 01 2017 20:20 Gurbak wrote: Cheeses, allins and timing attacks are perfectly legit strats. Elazer was a better player that Dark in this bo3, deal with it. They are perfectly legit strats but winning with them doesn't inherently mean someone is a better player. There is too much of a rock-paper-scissors in build wins to make the determination from a best of 3 unless the player is super mind gaming or playing their opponent. (e.g. Serral's map win in the decider match was targeting GuMiho's tendencies.) | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
On November 01 2017 20:43 DieuCure wrote: He won without being better. If you cant understand that ... You got it wrong. Not the better player wins, the one who wins is better. | ||
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Trizztein
Canada45 Posts
The luck factor can usually be compensated by the better player investing slightly more in scouting, this being true except for the initial 1 minute of the game (before any unit can make it's way across the map) . Thus "cheese" or "all in" victories isn't an excuse for Dark to lose the series (esp. Here since we're not talking about 12 pool strat). Not scouting during a plausible window for muta switch was in itself a gamble too on Dark's side, not only Elazer's. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On November 01 2017 23:40 DSh1 wrote: You got it wrong. Not the better player wins, the one who wins is better. You are very smart | ||
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Heyjoray
240 Posts
On November 01 2017 20:20 Gurbak wrote: Cheeses, allins and timing attacks are perfectly legit strats. Elazer was a better player that Dark in this bo3, deal with it. Why wasnt he the better player in game 2? I think Dark was ahead ~30 supply while building a spire. And the winning player is better? I think Rifkin and Zombiegrub won against Ryung and Crank in a legit Archon Match. Are they the better player? | ||
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Gurbak
France622 Posts
On November 02 2017 03:23 Heyjoray wrote: Why wasnt he the better player in game 2? I think Dark was ahead ~30 supply while building a spire. And the winning player is better? I think Rifkin and Zombiegrub won against Ryung and Crank in a legit Archon Match. Are they the better player? wtf are you talking about? Did Rifkin and Zombiegrub win against Ryung and Crank in a WCS Global Finals match? This comparison is nonsence | ||
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Heyjoray
240 Posts
On November 02 2017 03:47 Gurbak wrote: wtf are you talking about? Rifkin and Zombiegrub won against Ryung and Crank in a WCS Global Finals match? This comparison is nonsence What? Because its not a Blizzcon match it doesnt have any relevance? | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
On November 01 2017 20:20 Gurbak wrote: Hide nested quote - On November 01 2017 19:37 DieuCure wrote: The only macro game was a complete stomp between a 7k mmr and a 6k3 Cheeses, allins and timing attacks are perfectly legit strats. Elazer was a better player that Dark in this bo3, deal with it. Why wasnt he the better player in game 2? I think Dark was ahead ~30 supply while building a spire. And the winning player is better? I think Rifkin and Zombiegrub won against Ryung and Crank in a legit Archon Match. Are they the better player? When Dark cheesed his wins against foreigners so many times - it was skill. When Elazer wins with mind games it means nothing, he is the inferior player. lol. Remember they played for over a month on korean ladder, hundreds of games and the results for Korean zergs were abysmal. Elazer is not only much better than Dark in zvz he is better than any korean zerg in zvz, the longer the series the less chance a Korean has. Same with ZvP. Dark has better ZvT, does it absolutely mean he is a better player? By the way, when Dark reached the finals last year he only won 1 game against a Korean also 2:1. | ||
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Heyjoray
240 Posts
On November 02 2017 05:41 Kafka777 wrote: When Dark cheesed his wins against foreigners so many times - it was skill. When Elazer wins with mind games it means nothing, he is the inferior player. lol. Remember they played for over a month on korean ladder, hundreds of games and the results for Korean zergs were abysmal. Elazer is not only much better than Dark in zvz he is better than any korean zerg in zvz, the longer the series the less chance a Korean has. Same with ZvP. Dark has better ZvT, does it absolutely mean he is a better player? By the way, when Dark reached the finals last year he only won 1 game against a Korean also 2:1. So why didnt he won game 2? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 02 2017 05:41 Kafka777 wrote: When Dark cheesed his wins against foreigners so many times - it was skill. When Elazer wins with mind games it means nothing, he is the inferior player. lol. Remember they played for over a month on korean ladder, hundreds of games and the results for Korean zergs were abysmal. Elazer is not only much better than Dark in zvz he is better than any korean zerg in zvz, the longer the series the less chance a Korean has. Same with ZvP. Dark has better ZvT, does it absolutely mean he is a better player? By the way, when Dark reached the finals last year he only won 1 game against a Korean also 2:1. Wait, are you seriously claiming that Elazer > Dark? As in, Elazer is the superior player overall, across all matchups, and capable of achieving everything Dark has and more? That Elazer is quite possibly the best Zerg in the world? Is that what you are saying? Please tell me I have misunderstood. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
Wait, are you seriously claiming that Elazer > Dark? As in, Elazer is the superior player overall, across all matchups, and capable of achieving everything Dark has and more? That Elazer is quite possibly the best Zerg in the world? Is that what you are saying? Please tell me I have misunderstood. I didn't say he is better across all matchups. I said he is better in zvz and at least as good in ZvP and inferior in zvt. So why didnt he won game 2? Are you serious? Even if he has a 75% win rate against best koreans in zvz he will lose games. | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary381 Posts
good luck in ur games! | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 02 2017 06:22 Kafka777 wrote: I didn't say he is better across all matchups. I said he is better in zvz and at least as good in ZvP and inferior in zvt. Are you serious? Even if he has a 75% win rate against best koreans in zvz he will lose games. There is absolutely no way that he'd come close to matching Dark's SSL run. Having to play 3 players of the same race in a best of 7 and only fall to the player with the highest amount of WCS Korea points in the final game is absolutely insane. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
There is absolutely no way that he'd come close to matching Dark's SSL run. Having to play 3 players of the same race in a best of 7 and only fall to the player with the highest amount of WCS Korea points in the final game is absolutely insane. There is no chance that Stats would win against Elazer in a best of 7, just as it would be impossible for herO to beat Elazer in a best of 7. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 02 2017 06:22 Kafka777 wrote: I didn't say he is better across all matchups. I said he is better in zvz and at least as good in ZvP and inferior in zvt. Are you serious? Even if he has a 75% win rate against best koreans in zvz he will lose games. I was extremely unimpressed by Elazer in group stage. He got completely dumpstered by herO, beat up the weakest player at Blizzcon, and then squeezed past Dark in the most notoriously coinflippy matchup. And now somehow you think he's better than Dark? Dark, one of the greatest Zergs in the world? Dark had an off day, and lost the ZvZ coinflip. Elazer hasn't demonstrated anything remotely close to Dark's career results. There's no justification whatsoever for claiming he is better than Dark. Special, on the other hand, put on a far better showing in group stage. He played very well and advanced in first over two Koreans. Sure, Stats and TY were in poor form, but Special's form was still very impressive. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
It's like if Getafe win a match against Real Madrid, Getafe isnt superior... | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
I dont know how people can believe that Elazer > Dark It's like if Getafe win a match against Real Madrid, Getafe isnt superior... If you cannot read, do not express such biassed opinions. Dark lost about 50 times in the last month against Elazer online. Now he lost in the most important tournament. Live with it. It is like Getafe won the Spanish league and then won in Champions league 2:1 against Real and the fans still could not believe this. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On November 02 2017 10:42 Kafka777 wrote: If you cannot read, do not express such biassed opinions. Dark lost about 50 times in the last month against Elazer online. Now he lost in the most important tournament. Live with it. It is like Getafe won the Spanish league and then won in Champions league 2:1 against Real and the fans still could not believe this. When did Dark lose vs Elazer so much? just curious | ||
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