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Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spqebf
It is with a heavy heart that today we announce the release of Lee Jae “Bunny” Sun from our StarCraft II roster. Unfortunately, due to Bunny's lack of commitment to his contractual obligations, we as an organization have decided it is in our best interest to terminate our partnership together effective immediately. In the last 5 months under DuSt, Bunny showcased his talent in online tournaments and team leagues, as well as offline at GSL, SSL, VSL, and IEM Katowice in Poland. We are grateful for Bunny’s many contributions to the team, and wish him the best of luck in the future.
UPDATE:On April 26 2017 16:50 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:The case was discussed on Toast Talks yesterday with the DuSt owner himself -> Twitch timestamp
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Yikes. Rip the Dust.Bunny
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I cant believe you would blow an opportunity like this when half the players in Koera are teamless.
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On April 22 2017 12:47 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
I cant believe you would blow an opportunity like this when half the players in Koera are teamless.
I'm gonna be personally honest with you i think the reasoning Bunny is released is because of contract negotiations.My reasoning for this is because Bunny has had a great start to 2017.
GSL S1 Code S1 Ro16
Qualified for GSL Super Tournament making Ro16.
Barely didn't make the group stage at IEM Katowice so instead he flew out where he finished in the Ro28 which was 1 round from group stage.
Qualified for SSL Challenge
GSL S1 Code S2 currently Ro32
Helped carried his team to the playoffs of both DuSt League S4 and WardiTV S7 American Division when these matches were legit at 5 am for him and the leagues ran from December to April.
Has been streamed quite often his ladder sessions.
So Overall I would say he definitely put in alot of work and showed he was dedicated to his team.
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I can't fathom what contract obligations he wasn't fulfilling. Streamed regularly, played in clanwars regularly, etc. Pretty weird reasoning.
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On April 22 2017 14:20 PengWin_SC wrote:
I can't fathom what contract obligations he wasn't fulfilling. Streamed regularly, played in clanwars regularly, etc. Pretty weird reasoning.
I have to agree. On the one hand you praise all his effort and all what he has done for the team... then on the other hand you say, he didnt fulfill contract obligations... and that he is fired because of that.
Why would you even make a post, when its quiet obvious, that you dont want to or are not allowed to give is the REAL reasons for releasing him.
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Sad that it ended that quick. I was under the impression that the Dust pick ups both played and represented their team pretty good.
Then again, nobody of us knows what is written in the contracts, so everything is just speculation...
Best of luck to both!
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Italy3381 Posts
On April 22 2017 14:20 PengWin_SC wrote:
I can't fathom what contract obligations he wasn't fulfilling. Streamed regularly, played in clanwars regularly, etc. Pretty weird reasoning.
^that
...he is also playing at a pretty high level with nice results so... meh,..
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On April 22 2017 14:57 Subflow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 14:20 PengWin_SC wrote:
I can't fathom what contract obligations he wasn't fulfilling. Streamed regularly, played in clanwars regularly, etc. Pretty weird reasoning. I have to agree. On the one hand you praise all his effort and all what he has done for the team... then on the other hand you say, he didnt fulfill contract obligations... and that he is fired because of that. Why would you even make a post, when its quiet obvious, that you dont want to or are not allowed to give is the REAL reasons for releasing him.
To update people on the status of the team.
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Would definitely like to hear Bunny's comments on this. This makes him look bad and might be pretty much completely unfounded.
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The tone of announcement itself confuses me, mentioning "lack of commitment" and then praising him for all the "contribution to the team". I'm really wondering what were the other obligations but unfortunately, I don't think we will ever know the full story. Sad for Bunny, I hope he will find his place and do well.
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Seems like a dick move from Dust to release him for "lack of commitment" despite everything Bunny has done (streaming regularly, participating in online tournaments, good results in the korean leagues).
Of course it's hard to judge without knowing the full story but their reasoning sounds like a lie.
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Everybody here really fast to jump and blame DuSt :o.
GL to Bunny regardless of what happens, dude's too good to be teamless.
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We don't know what was in his contract and it's very possible he wasn't fulfilling an obligation he had signed to do, I'm not sure why everyone's jumping on Dust so hard when we have so little information.
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That elevated a bit faster than expected...
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So what will be his replacement @Seigifried?
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There would be very little reason for Dust to make up some arbitrary "excuse" and lie as to why a player is immediately released from the team. If they are short on money we would know soon anyway, if the reason was payment negotiation they would say so like many other teams have done in the past.
That so many poster jump on the organization baffles me, I hope Dust find a players that is willing to do what they require and I hope Bunny finds a good place for himself too.
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On April 22 2017 20:23 Shuffleblade wrote:
There would be very little reason for Dust to make up some arbitrary "excuse" and lie as to why a player is immediately released from the team. If they are short on money we would know soon anyway, if the reason was payment negotiation they would say so like many other teams have done in the past.
That so many poster jump on the organization baffles me, I hope Dust find a players that is willing to do what they require and I hope Bunny finds a good place for himself too.
If that was to be the case here you would be right that we'd be likely to know soon, but we have seen it many times happen that some teams that are in trouble try to cover up for as long as possible. Sometimes they don't even release players and just promise to pay them after they are already months late in doing that. Maybe they do that because they keep holding out hope that the financial situation will miraculously improve.
Obviously nothing like that could be in play here and it could actually be as simple as Bunny having not held his end of the bargain but I don't blame people for wondering since this doesn't seem like an amicable end to the contract. I'm pretty sure we've seen teams being the party to blame far more times than players even if that does happen too.
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Well it seems some people think a contract is just made out of "participate in Z tournyes. play X games. Stream Y hours".
He might not have been reachable at times where he should have been. He might went on vacation without getting "holidays". He might missed other obligations he was supposed to fulfill, who knows ... and imo it is totally correct that Dust doesn't state the exact problems. That is up to Bunny to do.
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France12873 Posts
Good for him, hopefully he finds another team that suits him better!
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Has anyone asked Bunny so we see two sides' story?
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hopefully doesn't bother him in his games today
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lack of commitment to fulfill the contract obligation is a very board reason, could be very light or serious.
Without much info it's too easy to make assumptions.
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A lot of people here don't seem to understand how contracts work. DuSt can't just claim he was failing to meet his obligations and end his contract without any reason unless they want to open themselves up to potential litigation. (libel being a possibility on top of the broken contract) I suppose they could be banking on the fact that any such litigation might not be financially worth it on his end (does Korea have the equivalent of a small claims court?), but that's not how reputable organizations operate.
As to what specifically he failed to do, that could be almost anything. If the contract was bad for DuSt, it could be something minor. If the contract wasn't bad for DuSt, I suspect it would have to be something more serious.
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And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything.
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I agree that its not fair to immediately jump on the org considering we have no idea what the contract entailed. It could be something as simple as the contract requiring Bunny to participate in X amount of promotional material but Bunny chose to practice or attend extra tournaments instead. In a case like that the split could be amiable but still the right move from the orgs perspective if they feel the business end isn't being fulfilled.
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On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything.
Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong.
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On April 22 2017 23:09 Boggyb wrote:
A lot of people here don't seem to understand how contracts work. DuSt can't just claim he was failing to meet his obligations and end his contract without any reason unless they want to open themselves up to potential litigation. (libel being a possibility on top of the broken contract) I suppose they could be banking on the fact that any such litigation might not be financially worth it on his end (does Korea have the equivalent of a small claims court?), but that's not how reputable organizations operate.
As to what specifically he failed to do, that could be almost anything. If the contract was bad for DuSt, it could be something minor. If the contract wasn't bad for DuSt, I suspect it would have to be something more serious.
Yeah, many smaller esports teams have turned out to not be reputable operations and there have been virtually no cases where it has led to any litigation so that's kind of where people are coming when they don't give that much weight on potential for litigation.
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On April 23 2017 00:09 nighcol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:09 Boggyb wrote:
A lot of people here don't seem to understand how contracts work. DuSt can't just claim he was failing to meet his obligations and end his contract without any reason unless they want to open themselves up to potential litigation. (libel being a possibility on top of the broken contract) I suppose they could be banking on the fact that any such litigation might not be financially worth it on his end (does Korea have the equivalent of a small claims court?), but that's not how reputable organizations operate.
As to what specifically he failed to do, that could be almost anything. If the contract was bad for DuSt, it could be something minor. If the contract wasn't bad for DuSt, I suspect it would have to be something more serious. Yeah, many smaller esports teams have turned out to not be reputable operations and there have been virtually no cases where it has led to any litigation so that's kind of where people are coming when they don't give that much weight on potential for litigation.
DuSt gaming has been around for years. If they were a disreputable fly-by-night operation, they'd have folded long ago. If this were some new or questionable team, that line of reasoning would be more valid, but even then, don't those organizations just stop paying people rather than (possibly) erroneously terminating contracts?
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On April 22 2017 23:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything. Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong.
This is 100% correct and sadly a lot of people in this thread seem to be glossing over it. I guess they're too young to have had a work contract?
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On April 23 2017 00:21 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2017 00:09 nighcol wrote:On April 22 2017 23:09 Boggyb wrote:
A lot of people here don't seem to understand how contracts work. DuSt can't just claim he was failing to meet his obligations and end his contract without any reason unless they want to open themselves up to potential litigation. (libel being a possibility on top of the broken contract) I suppose they could be banking on the fact that any such litigation might not be financially worth it on his end (does Korea have the equivalent of a small claims court?), but that's not how reputable organizations operate.
As to what specifically he failed to do, that could be almost anything. If the contract was bad for DuSt, it could be something minor. If the contract wasn't bad for DuSt, I suspect it would have to be something more serious. Yeah, many smaller esports teams have turned out to not be reputable operations and there have been virtually no cases where it has led to any litigation so that's kind of where people are coming when they don't give that much weight on potential for litigation. DuSt gaming has been around for years. If they were a disreputable fly-by-night operation, they'd have folded long ago. If this were some new or questionable team, that line of reasoning would be more valid, but even then, don't those organizations just stop paying people rather than (possibly) erroneously terminating contracts?
They may well be but this stuff has happened after an organisation has been around for a few years previously so the initial reaction from people is entirely understandable in context...
Comparing it to a work contract is also pretty naive since things have demonstrably often worked very differently in esports...
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On April 22 2017 23:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything. Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong.
Bunny being in the wrong and Dust not acting reasonable don't exclude each other.
Even if he failed to perform a certain duty it might be harsh from Dust to release him for it depending on the significance of it.
Just because they are legally eligible to release him doesn't mean it's reasonable.
Personally I can't think of a reason justifying firing someone who presents the team as well as Bunny that's why I criticized Dust. But without further information it's all just guessing.
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On April 23 2017 04:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:33 Boggyb wrote:On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything. Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong. Bunny being in the wrong and Dust not acting reasonable don't exclude each other. Even if he failed to perform a certain duty it might be harsh from Dust to release him for it depending on the significance of it. Just because they are legally eligible to release him doesn't mean it's reasonable. Personally I can't think of a reason justifying firing someone who presents the team as well as Bunny that's why I criticized Dust. But without further information it's all just guessing.
I think it's better for someone from TL to ask Bunny for his point of view. If there are 'e-sports' journalists, of course. 
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This smells like quantic or lygf, another scam that is so common in this unregulated e-sports scene.
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Come on give the guy a break, last week was probably his busiest day of the year! 
Joking aside, hope he finds a new team soon.. (once the.. Dust settles *da dum tss*).
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On April 23 2017 06:11 Apoteosis wrote:
This smells like quantic or lygf, another scam that is so common in this unregulated e-sports scene.
Terminating a contract and not paying someone and then dissapearing are not remotely the same.
If a team wants to let go of a player they are in their right if said player did breached the contract he signed.
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On April 22 2017 23:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything. Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong.
... alternately, and far FAR more common in the esports space, if someone doesn't talk about litigation it's most likely because the cost of initiating what would be international civil litigation, or simply obtaining a legal team, or retaining legal counsel to discuss if a case should be pursued, is more expensive than any remedy likely to be gained.
While I firmly believe there need to be more lawyers involved in many aspects of esports (both for players, teams, and tournament organizations) the international nature of the industry and the financial difficulties in simply pursuing litigation are extremely difficult to overcome for the average individual. The possibility of poor or negative returns on litigation, even if the case is won, and the negative image that can develop, are poor motivators for individual players (many of whom also sign poorly worded contracts, if they in fact actually sign any written contract).
There is no "if this then this" or "if not this, then this" comparison to be made here. It's a false choice. We can safely assume nothing, and should assume nothing. The only factual assertion to be made is "Dust claims that Bunny has failed to meet some requirement of his contract, and has terminated their association." The validity of that statement cannot be assessed without additional information that we do not have, and may never have.
To date, I can think of not one case being brought by a player against any team or organization, even when relatively significant sums are involved simply because the associated financial costs of initiating and then seeing legal actions to their conclusion are beyond most players and even quite a few teams.
On April 23 2017 00:29 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:33 Boggyb wrote:On April 22 2017 23:21 Rehio wrote:
And all of the information regarding any potential breaches are going to be private unless the parties involved feel like making them public. Until one of them does so, it's kinda useless to speculate on which one is in the wrong, cause we just don't have anything. Unless Bunny talks about litigation (be it plans to do so or an explanation of why he won't), we can safely assume he was in the wrong. If he failed to perform even one duty, no matter how minor, as spelled out in his contract, he's in the wrong. This is 100% correct and sadly a lot of people in this thread seem to be glossing over it. I guess they're too young to have had a work contract?
I guess you've never attempted to litigate a contractual dispute?
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"If he doesn't sue about it he's basically admitting their right" is just about the dumbest assumption I can imagine in this situation. There are any number of reasons someone wouldn't sue without being in the wrong:
-they don't have the resources to get a lawyer
-the contract was vague enough about his "duties" that it would be difficult to prove whether he was performing them or not
-he knows enough about the company internals to know he couldn't get much money from them even if he won
-he still cares about the organization and wants to part amicably
-he's worried it would hurt his prospects with other teams if he was seen as the type to sue them later down the line
-he's not a lawyer and doesn't understand his situation well enough to realize he has a case
I have known multiple people in my relatively brief career to be fired for what everyone knew were bullshit reasons. Only one considered suing, and even he decided against it. Cases like that can drag on for years, and the company usually has more resources than you do. And if they go out of business at any point during those years of litigation, you've got years of legal fees and nothing to show for it.
"You didn't sue your former employer for firing you so you must be admitting they were right to fire you" is just such shitty reasoning, I can't even imagine how anyone could know enough about the legal system to know that suing for wrongful termination is a thing without also knowing enough about it to understand how wrong that assumption is.
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wow... this thread....holy jeez....
just some general info... DuSt is not a top tier team and, as far as i know, is not sponsor driven. (their partners don't pay for the majority of whatever "sponsorships" the players receive aka the manager does)
my guess would be that this was originally something like a 2011-2012 NA/EU contract deal where DuSt is using good tier koreans who are not on teams, with any incentive at all, to join their team so that DuSt can "build" their "brand" (if you could even say those two things for dust...?)
Bunny probably thought he could use low effort (tho he did stream and do other things, quite clearly so) and get a small return on just having his name attached to the team.
these sorts of small amicable setups were pretty common in mid tier NA/EU teams years ago and to say that he had a "real contract" in the first place... i'd put some serious doubt over... what I mean by that is, a contract that was constructed well and had the actual value for either party to want to go to court over.
so, i imagine, bunny probably just had some small clause that they wanted him to do something little which he continually didn't do over his time on the team (this is incredibly common for koreans.. or anyone.. to do either for lack of care do to the aforementioned contract setup, they're lazy, or they just don't understand the language). Eventually they got fed up with him not fulfilling X, and instead of doing anything else, they just ended the contract.
which party is largely to blame for whatever happened or what not is probably not of any concern because they were vague in their own post and simply put it up over twitter. like i said, if they had real contracts worth going to court over either party would have taken a much different approach; and moreover, i simply dont think dust has enough funding to provide such a contract to a KR player.
thusly, i think pretty much everything in this thread is way over blown.
also, in reply to boggyb's post about
On April 22 2017 23:09 Boggyb wrote:
A lot of people here don't seem to understand how contracts work. DuSt can't just claim he was failing to meet his obligations and end his contract without any reason unless they want to open themselves up to potential litigation. (libel being a possibility on top of the broken contract)
clearly u have no idea how little most contracts are worth right now and how absurd this sort of this would be. the only people who have this sort of thing happen are pretty much the matchfixers who got 20k$+ in scams... or like... if jinair just was like yo broooo ima not pay any of my players moneyyy ezzzzzz...
if u think dust or bunny would worry about whatever small time contract is being provided.... -_-;;;
seriously people, probably not a big deal ~.~
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wow bunny is one of the few names ive noticed lately too.. although i didnt see "DUST" mentioned anywhere so dunno what the value proposition really is
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I don't blame people for jumping on the org first. I think its better that we immediately move to defend the player because the player always has less power than the org. Now the problem is how far people take it.
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Damn. DuSt.Bunny was the sickest sponsor tag / player handle combo I've ever seen.
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As long as Bunny doesn't say anything dust is definitely in the right
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On April 24 2017 01:56 Corvuuss wrote:
As long as Bunny doesn't say anything dust is definitely in the right
Also a dumb assumption. If Bunny doesn't say anything we can assume he didn't think starting drama would achieve anything good. It's easily possible for Dust to have treated him badly, but for him to think that going public with it would only hurt them and him, so he'll just move on.
Seriously, what is with these assumptions?
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Seriously, what is with these assumptions?
Well the whole situation leaves lots of room for assumptions.
But the old saying: "When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me" definitely applies here (like any news without proper context).
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On April 24 2017 04:26 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 01:56 Corvuuss wrote:
As long as Bunny doesn't say anything dust is definitely in the right Also a dumb assumption. If Bunny doesn't say anything we can assume he didn't think starting drama would achieve anything good. It's easily possible for Dust to have treated him badly, but for him to think that going public with it would only hurt them and him, so he'll just move on. Seriously, what is with these assumptions?
Well I should have said they're in the right or Bunny can't do anything about it
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Now that's closer. I'd even go further and say even if Bunny complains there's probably nothing he can do about it
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Best wishes to Bunny and to team DuSt. The words below contain criticism, but rather than being hypocritical, I hope this criticism of mine is constructive. I would like to take this opportunity to respond to the heart issue of what people are saying on this thread, not because this thread or post requires it, but because of application to online commenting and e-sports courtesy in general.
Regardless of whether this is a minor problem or major; regardless of whether someone is in the wrong or neither party is upset; it is irresponsible for an employer to make public information about past/current/future employees' work status in a statement that does not at minimum contain the signatures / noticeable approval of both parties.
Was anyone curious about the Dust-Bunny situation? Probably. Was there a reasonable burden for public knowledge of this? Either 1) No, or 2) Because a contract term stipulating end-of-contract publicity or a confirmed document stating this as the express intent of both parties wasn't stated in the announcement as the reason for the announcement, no validity exists and therefore NO.
This being said, I doubt anyone intended any negative outcome from this thread. However, unfortunately as people, having good intentions doesn't prevent problems, and while nobody has a right to think of himself as justified, we could all do a better job of trying to envision the consequences of every action, word, and thought (myself included).
Many peoples' lives are ruined because somebody turns their private life into a public affair. Many friendships and relationships are ruined because somebody decides to use the weight of public or law against the other without keeping things quiet in the interests of both parties.
Public reputation is one of the most nebulous aspects of credibility. Don't think that reporters, lawyers, judges, netizens, or anyone who decides to influence another's life without any risk of consequence (this post included) is morally neutral. No; we are all responsible for every single assumption we make or cause to be made and should do things responsibly.
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm probably plenty guilty of having been careless with my words, but I can say from personal experience. Words, especially public, have the power to build people up or destroy people. Let's all work on being thoughtful and less careless.
Bunny, I hope you make Ro16.
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another one bites the dust 
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ITT: an enormous set of assumptions about both parties based on a single twitter statement
On April 23 2017 06:11 Apoteosis wrote:
This smells like quantic or lygf, another scam that is so common in this unregulated e-sports scene.
It's despicable to throw around guesses like that just because stuff happened in the past, how the hell do you know that? Just because they released a Korean player?
Nobody has said anything more but DuSt management through a single tweet (please correct me if I missed something about the case), why would you start elaborate discussions with literally NOTHING to base them on. Just for the sake of talking in vain?
Sometimes when I read some posts (mostly here on TL) I get a strange vibe of hatred towards the game but love towards the players playing it and being so protective of them, and by players I mean Korean players - some people are just in love with Korean community and that's about it. If you seemingly mistreat a Korean player you're the enemy, there is no need for a full story.
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If teams had a reputation for being honorable and honest, I don't think people would be talking harshly about the team. As is, people have little trust for foreign teams.
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I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship.
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I can understand that he doesnt want to waste his time training with inferior players. However, if it was part of the deal, I think Dust Gaming did the right thing.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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On April 25 2017 06:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
I can understand that he doesnt want to waste his time training with inferior players. However, if it was part of the deal, I think Dust Gaming did the right thing.
Wow ok, I personally can't understand it at all, just let Koreans to have good practice to be better at the game and fuck all others
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If part of the reason why they signed him is to train with their guys and he doesnt do it, it defeats the purpose.
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On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship.
IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason.
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On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason.
It's also quite a stupid reason.
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Here is my input.
Many won't know me.
Many might.
I am controversial at best. Yet, I think anyone who has met me knows I am genuine.
DuSt. Well, DuSt. It was the first, and the last, organization to fulfill it's end of a contract. Many that read this post will never know what it means to be semi-pro or even attempt to make money from a game that alludes the majority of e sports fans... But guess what????
DuSt gaming is the most O.G. org you can find.
Try and find someone who would talk shit on it!
Did bunny?
Did I?
Did sWs when he left for a bigger Cs:Go team?
Did the (formerly alleged map hacker) Duck Complain?
Get a real statement of someone from DuSt complaining about the ORG before you attack it.
There is a reason DuSt has stood the test of time. The two owners (who are soluble) support the SHIT out of their players.
But this TRUST is built. You must earn it.
And "I tell you what" if DuSt is releasing bunny it is for EVERYONE'S benefit. The owners of DuSt have always looked out for everyone's benefit.
And if you have never had Ricky or Tom talk to you. Pay for your hotel. Pay for your food. Pay for your travel. Or console you after the worst lose of your CAREER please do not comment on DuSt.
I am biased. I have felt their warmth. Have never been lied to, and never will be.
If bunny and DuSt parted.
It is amicably.
It is best for everyone.
DuSt would never forget a player.
Look at me, sWs, Love. People this ORG has supported through thick and thin.
/End Rant
<3 DuST, Ricky, Tom, sWs, Sl33t, Amplified, Love, Pure, Jaybyrd, etc.
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On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason.
If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed.
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On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed.
DuSt doesn't "pay" for practice.
The ORG has always tried to build talent.
Please, I beg, Please... Understand it was not amicable for DuSt & Bunny to continue. That does not point fault or assign fault.
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On April 25 2017 13:30 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed. DuSt doesn't "pay" for practice. The ORG has always tried to build talent. Please, I beg, Please... Understand it was not amicable for DuSt & Bunny to continue. That does not point fault or assign fault.
Yep dust is so OG how bout some chat logs from Winter with his experience with dust.
[2/4/2017 5:56:21 PM] Ricky Robidoux: why are you on 1FPro? they suck
[2/4/2017 5:58:26 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Thats harsh..
[2/4/2017 5:58:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: is it?
[2/4/2017 5:58:38 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Im in the team cause I like the atmosphere adn get paid to do so
[2/4/2017 5:58:39 PM] Ricky Robidoux: sorry
[2/4/2017 5:58:41 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I can rephrase
[2/4/2017 5:58:51 PM] Ricky Robidoux: ah well that's it then
[2/4/2017 5:59:03 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I just meant like, you're a Swedish zerg studying in japan
[2/4/2017 5:59:20 PM] Ricky Robidoux: playing on a usa team with 40 likes on twitter and no clue how to run a team
[2/4/2017 5:59:43 PM] Ricky Robidoux: and in comparison to our team, yeah, they suck the big one(edited)
[2/4/2017 6:31:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: But whatever they pay you now, and however good you actually are, by staying on 1FPro this is the best it's ever gonna get for you because they do nothing for you
or how bout this
Bidoux - 11/02/2016 your team is a joke asking you guys to ever merge with us was a huge mistake
Seigifried - 11/02/2016 again its not my team \plz quit talking to me about this im a student
Bidoux - 11/02/2016 if you're on rival then yes its your team
Seigifried - 11/02/2016 lol all i do is work/college
Bidoux - 11/02/2016 but if someone asked u what team ur onn you would say rival so what the fuck are u talking about?
Seigifried - 11/02/2016 cool idc
Bidoux - 11/02/2016 just frustrated with low level gm misfit nobodys talking shit whenever you feel like joining a real team, let me know
Or how bout the fact that my undisclosed source is starkiller a player who is currently on DuSt Gaming.
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On April 25 2017 13:48 SNSeigifried wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 13:30 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed. DuSt doesn't "pay" for practice. The ORG has always tried to build talent. Please, I beg, Please... Understand it was not amicable for DuSt & Bunny to continue. That does not point fault or assign fault. Yep dust is so OG how bout some chat logs from Winter with his experience with dust. [2/4/2017 5:56:21 PM] Ricky Robidoux: why are you on 1FPro? they suck [2/4/2017 5:58:26 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Thats harsh.. [2/4/2017 5:58:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: is it? [2/4/2017 5:58:38 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Im in the team cause I like the atmosphere adn get paid to do so [2/4/2017 5:58:39 PM] Ricky Robidoux: sorry [2/4/2017 5:58:41 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I can rephrase [2/4/2017 5:58:51 PM] Ricky Robidoux: ah well that's it then [2/4/2017 5:59:03 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I just meant like, you're a Swedish zerg studying in japan [2/4/2017 5:59:20 PM] Ricky Robidoux: playing on a usa team with 40 likes on twitter and no clue how to run a team [2/4/2017 5:59:43 PM] Ricky Robidoux: and in comparison to our team, yeah, they suck the big one(edited) [2/4/2017 6:31:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: But whatever they pay you now, and however good you actually are, by staying on 1FPro this is the best it's ever gonna get for you because they do nothing for you or how bout this Bidoux - 11/02/2016 your team is a joke asking you guys to ever merge with us was a huge mistake Seigifried - 11/02/2016 again its not my team \plz quit talking to me about this im a student Bidoux - 11/02/2016 if you're on rival then yes its your team Seigifried - 11/02/2016 lol all i do is work/college Bidoux - 11/02/2016 but if someone asked u what team ur onn you would say rival so what the fuck are u talking about? Seigifried - 11/02/2016 cool idc Bidoux - 11/02/2016 just frustrated with low level gm misfit nobodys talking shit whenever you feel like joining a real team, let me know Or how bout the fact that my undisclosed source is starkiller a player who is currently on DuSt Gaming.
May I get screen shots?
It is really easy to manipulate text.
I apologize for this request.
-Jeff
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On April 25 2017 13:52 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 13:48 SNSeigifried wrote:On April 25 2017 13:30 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed. DuSt doesn't "pay" for practice. The ORG has always tried to build talent. Please, I beg, Please... Understand it was not amicable for DuSt & Bunny to continue. That does not point fault or assign fault. Yep dust is so OG how bout some chat logs from Winter with his experience with dust. [2/4/2017 5:56:21 PM] Ricky Robidoux: why are you on 1FPro? they suck [2/4/2017 5:58:26 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Thats harsh.. [2/4/2017 5:58:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: is it? [2/4/2017 5:58:38 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Im in the team cause I like the atmosphere adn get paid to do so [2/4/2017 5:58:39 PM] Ricky Robidoux: sorry [2/4/2017 5:58:41 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I can rephrase [2/4/2017 5:58:51 PM] Ricky Robidoux: ah well that's it then [2/4/2017 5:59:03 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I just meant like, you're a Swedish zerg studying in japan [2/4/2017 5:59:20 PM] Ricky Robidoux: playing on a usa team with 40 likes on twitter and no clue how to run a team [2/4/2017 5:59:43 PM] Ricky Robidoux: and in comparison to our team, yeah, they suck the big one(edited) [2/4/2017 6:31:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: But whatever they pay you now, and however good you actually are, by staying on 1FPro this is the best it's ever gonna get for you because they do nothing for you or how bout this Bidoux - 11/02/2016 your team is a joke asking you guys to ever merge with us was a huge mistake Seigifried - 11/02/2016 again its not my team \plz quit talking to me about this im a student Bidoux - 11/02/2016 if you're on rival then yes its your team Seigifried - 11/02/2016 lol all i do is work/college Bidoux - 11/02/2016 but if someone asked u what team ur onn you would say rival so what the fuck are u talking about? Seigifried - 11/02/2016 cool idc Bidoux - 11/02/2016 just frustrated with low level gm misfit nobodys talking shit whenever you feel like joining a real team, let me know Or how bout the fact that my undisclosed source is starkiller a player who is currently on DuSt Gaming. May I get screen shots? It is really easy to manipulate text. I apologize for this request. -Jeff
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/254385183388729355/306293145694633984/unknown.png
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On April 25 2017 13:59 SNSeigifried wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 13:52 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:On April 25 2017 13:48 SNSeigifried wrote:On April 25 2017 13:30 Schnieder.sc2 wrote:On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed. DuSt doesn't "pay" for practice. The ORG has always tried to build talent. Please, I beg, Please... Understand it was not amicable for DuSt & Bunny to continue. That does not point fault or assign fault. Yep dust is so OG how bout some chat logs from Winter with his experience with dust. [2/4/2017 5:56:21 PM] Ricky Robidoux: why are you on 1FPro? they suck [2/4/2017 5:58:26 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Thats harsh.. [2/4/2017 5:58:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: is it? [2/4/2017 5:58:38 PM] Felix "Winter" Hegethorn: Im in the team cause I like the atmosphere adn get paid to do so [2/4/2017 5:58:39 PM] Ricky Robidoux: sorry [2/4/2017 5:58:41 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I can rephrase [2/4/2017 5:58:51 PM] Ricky Robidoux: ah well that's it then [2/4/2017 5:59:03 PM] Ricky Robidoux: I just meant like, you're a Swedish zerg studying in japan [2/4/2017 5:59:20 PM] Ricky Robidoux: playing on a usa team with 40 likes on twitter and no clue how to run a team [2/4/2017 5:59:43 PM] Ricky Robidoux: and in comparison to our team, yeah, they suck the big one(edited) [2/4/2017 6:31:35 PM] Ricky Robidoux: But whatever they pay you now, and however good you actually are, by staying on 1FPro this is the best it's ever gonna get for you because they do nothing for you or how bout this Bidoux - 11/02/2016 your team is a joke asking you guys to ever merge with us was a huge mistake Seigifried - 11/02/2016 again its not my team \plz quit talking to me about this im a student Bidoux - 11/02/2016 if you're on rival then yes its your team Seigifried - 11/02/2016 lol all i do is work/college Bidoux - 11/02/2016 but if someone asked u what team ur onn you would say rival so what the fuck are u talking about? Seigifried - 11/02/2016 cool idc Bidoux - 11/02/2016 just frustrated with low level gm misfit nobodys talking shit whenever you feel like joining a real team, let me know Or how bout the fact that my undisclosed source is starkiller a player who is currently on DuSt Gaming. May I get screen shots? It is really easy to manipulate text. I apologize for this request. -Jeff https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/254385183388729355/306293145694633984/unknown.png
hmm really makes you think (^:
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The chatlogs might show aggressive headhunting and arrogance but it sais nothing about how they treat their players. So I don't understand what this has to do with the thread topic.
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On April 25 2017 15:40 fronkschnonk wrote:
The chatlogs might show aggressive headhunting and arrogance but it sais nothing about how they treat their players. So I don't understand what this has to do with the thread topic.
Some people just really enjoy a good witch hunt.
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On April 25 2017 15:40 fronkschnonk wrote:
The chatlogs might show aggressive headhunting and arrogance but it sais nothing about how they treat their players. So I don't understand what this has to do with the thread topic.
It shows his character. From reading those chat logs, I have zero faith that he is capable of being a decent human being let alone run a proper team. Aggressive headhunting is one thing, harassing players on other teams is another. You're quite right that it doesn't prove how he treats his own team members, but it doesn't bode well either.
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On April 25 2017 15:40 fronkschnonk wrote:
The chatlogs might show aggressive headhunting and arrogance but it sais nothing about how they treat their players. So I don't understand what this has to do with the thread topic.
You're not necessarily wrong. This is sort of its own story isn't it. What a horrible way for a team owner to behave...
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Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
I'd guess they had a 6 months contract, Bunny wanted more $$$, they said no and here it ends.
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On April 25 2017 15:40 fronkschnonk wrote:
The chatlogs might show aggressive headhunting and arrogance but it sais nothing about how they treat their players. So I don't understand what this has to do with the thread topic.
That's true, but paired with stuff like Meomaika leaving due to alleged broken promises, Ricky going on record on the Dankshrine round table as having absolutely no idea what he's doing, it definitely doesn't look good.
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On April 26 2017 04:58 HornyHerring wrote:
I'd guess they had a 6 months contract, Bunny wanted more $$$, they said no and here it ends.
If you've been reading a few answers up, that is not what happened.
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I'll be the first to agree that Bidoux can be a dickhead, but when you're on his team he always has your back.
I can personally vouch for him fulfilling his promises to me. He sent me to numerous tournaments, that he paid for out of his own pocket, and I know for a fact he's done the same for others.
Hate him all you want, but he is a man of his word. DuSt has never done anything to screw over its players, and its never broken any promises or unfairly ended any contracts.
The reason Bunny was released is right there in the statement, sure its vague, but I see that as a service to everyone involved. Why air the dirty laundry?
You guys can use this thread to bring up your own hate towards Bidoux, because maybe he's made a rude comment towards you, but I personally think its ridiculous given the context.
And honestly, even if a player and an org don't end on perfect terms - that doesn't devalue the relationship they had, or the things they achieved while working together.
I am personally grateful to of had Bunny on the team, and I hope he finds a new home.
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The reason Bunny was released is right there in the statement, sure its vague, but I see that as a service to everyone involved. Why air the dirty laundry?
The thing is they kind of are airing dirty laundry by saying he didn't follow the contract without giving any real indication on what that violation could have been. It is especially odd because as Pengwin said earlier in the thread, Bunny has been doing a lot of stuff performance/streaming wise so its difficult to see where his violation could have happened.
If DuSt wanted to kick the guy without airing dirty laundry, just a generic "it didn't work out/both parties decided to depart" sort of statement would be much more appropriate then saying Bunny didn't follow his contract so we kicked him. That hurts his chances on future teams. Whether that is deserved or not depends on his contract violation but to say this type of statement is a service to everyone involved isn't really true. Definitely doesn't feel like a service to Bunny.
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On April 25 2017 13:23 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2017 11:57 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 25 2017 09:57 zealotstim wrote:On April 25 2017 06:21 SNSeigifried wrote:
I've been told from an undisclosed source that the reasoning for Bunny's termination was due to his lack of practicing with the other non-Koreans on the team which resulted in an argument and the ending of their relationship. IF that's true, that's quite a legit reason. It's also quite a stupid reason. If it was in the contact, its a great reason. The team invested in this player to reap the rewards which include providing practice to the other teammates. seems justified. case closed.
I stand by my original statement.
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The case was discussed on Toast Talks yesterday with the DuSt owner himself -> Twitch timestamp
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On April 26 2017 16:50 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:The case was discussed on Toast Talks yesterday with the DuSt owner himself -> Twitch timestamp
Sounds entirely reasonable to me.
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Maybe the fine print in his contract said that he's supposed to take it up the bum after a while on the team, and now Bunny started to make a hassle out of it... :/
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Good for Bunny. From that talk show it sounds a terrible team to be in. Their reason to letting him go was he's too competitive and too focused on winning Blizzcon lol.
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EPT
