Long time Starcraft 2 twitch viewer and fan of all things Starcraft. I have never played the game but as a recreational supporter of the game (I donate hundreds on twitch annually), I feel a bit cheated.
Avilo had a donation goal of $3500 to go to dreamhack. He raised a little less then $3000 mostly from people who were excited to see him attend dreamhack like myself. I personally donated to the cause more than once as a former fan of his. Is it okay for him to reach most of his goal and just not go and pocket the money? I for sure would not have donated if this is the case. I assumed if he was close to his goal he would have went. He lives in the states and the costs to attend a dreamhack event can't be more than $3000 USD as it should cover food, hotel, airfare, etc.
Do these type of goals mislead and misuse recreational twitch viewers? If this practice is standard in the industry I'm sorry for making the thread. I tried asking him in twitch chat about this situation and got banned (even though I've donated many times).
I don't see how 3000$ isn't enough to go to dreamhack and I think this is definitely douchey, but not much you can do. I would consider it a 100% scam if he hit his donation goal, said he wasn't going and kept it. Wouldn't recommend donating to him again if that was why you donated, but up to you!
I don't know anything about that, but if it is as you said (he raised money for something, didn't do it and still cashed in X amount of money), it's a clear scam.
On April 19 2017 08:41 iamperfection wrote: Its a donation he can use it however he wants its not like you have a contract between you and him.
Its a shitty thing to do an im pretty sure you can do a charge back if it wasn't that long ago??
Other than that just don't watch his stream and support someone else.
Yeah but now it seems to me as if he set a very high goal that he thought could not be hit so he could pocket the money because he knew he'd get more donations then he normally would with his fake intent.
On April 19 2017 08:41 iamperfection wrote: Its a donation he can use it however he wants its not like you have a contract between you and him.
Its a shitty thing to do an im pretty sure you can do a charge back if it wasn't that long ago??
Other than that just don't watch his stream and support someone else.
Yeah but now it seems to me as if he set a very high goal that he thought could not be hit so he could pocket the money because he knew he'd get more donations then he normally would with his fake intent.
On April 19 2017 08:41 iamperfection wrote: Its a donation he can use it however he wants its not like you have a contract between you and him.
Its a shitty thing to do an im pretty sure you can do a charge back if it wasn't that long ago??
Other than that just don't watch his stream and support someone else.
Yeah but now it seems to me as if he set a very high goal that he thought could not be hit so he could pocket the money because he knew he'd get more donations then he normally would with his fake intent.
Perhaps he should get the chance to put up another donation fund to raise whatever he came short of and goto the next dreamhack. This way he still honors his promise to viewers and they don't feel cheated.
On April 19 2017 09:06 xTJx wrote: Looks like Avilo fans are as delusional as he is.
First, the game is dead, already a surprise that he raised 3k.
Second, if he goes he'll lose to the first GM he faces, probably won't even be streamed.
Third, no ofense, but this thread reads into my mind like this: "make fun of me because i gave my money to Avilo."
dude this thread is not to judge the fans or their actions, but to get the opinion of the matter at hand...namely avilo raising money to go to dreamhack and just pocketing it
to me its a straight up scam, either give back the money or go to dreamhack
On April 19 2017 09:06 xTJx wrote: Looks like Avilo fans are as delusional as he is.
First, the game is dead, already a surprise that he raised 3k.
Second, if he goes he'll lose to the first GM he faces, probably won't even be streamed.
Third, no ofense, but this thread reads into my mind like this: "make fun of me because i gave my money to Avilo."
dude this thread is not to judge the fans or their actions, but to get the opinion of the matter at hand...namely avilo raising money to go to dreamhack and just pocketing it
to me its a straight up scam, either give back the money or go to dreamhack
hmmm, you're right. But can Twitch force him to do so, was there a similar case in the past?
He's a blight on the community and every thread only feeds into his own victim mentality and other issues. Learn your lesson well and just don't give the time of day, a single thought, or another moment of your time to the poor behavior that he exhibits seemingly every moment of the day.
With that, I'm going to have ice cream. Enjoy your night and try to make better decisions next time.
On April 19 2017 09:26 TKiFenris wrote: He said he'd go to dreamhack only if he hit the full goal. He didn't hit the entire goal so he's not going. It's definitely not a scam.
If you're asking for donations for a specific purpose, the way it works is that if you don't get enough money for the purpose people specifically donated money towards, you give it back. To be fair - it's very possible that many of those donations would still be coming if Avilo wasn't asking for money to go to dreamhack, that many of the donations were fans supporting him regardless of that, and that Avilo didn't, and had no real way of tracking whether the donations were dreamhack-specific. And I mean people who donated for him to go to dreamhack clearly did so from a fan pov anyway.
If that's the case, then I still most certainly think the smart thing to do (most people's reputation is worth more than $3k) would be to offer to give any money back that people claim they donated to send him to dreamhack - kinda unlikely that fans would falsely make such a claim to get back their $10, or whatever.
On April 19 2017 09:26 TKiFenris wrote: He said he'd go to dreamhack only if he hit the full goal. He didn't hit the entire goal so he's not going. It's definitely not a scam.
If you're asking for donations for a specific purpose, the way it works is that if you don't get enough money for the purpose people specifically donated money towards, you give it back. To be fair - it's very possible that many of those donations would still be coming if Avilo wasn't asking for money to go to dreamhack, that many of the donations were fans supporting him regardless of that, and that Avilo didn't, and had no real way of tracking whether the donations were dreamhack-specific. And I mean people who donated for him to go to dreamhack clearly did so from a fan pov anyway.
If that's the case, then I still most certainly think the smart thing to do (most people's reputation is worth more than $3k) would be to offer to give any money back that people claim they donated to send him to dreamhack - kinda unlikely that fans would falsely make such a claim to get back their $10, or whatever.
I agree. I would never ask for the money back. I wouldn't mind him hosting a tournament or something and putting all proceeds to that, or spending it on the community some how. Or even going to dream hack? 3k is way more then enough.
I'm not sure I agree. He said that he'd do dreamhack if he raised the full amount and if he didn't he'd use some of the rest in order to run a community tournament of some kind (he hasn't decided which kind of tournament yet). He's not going to pocket the money and has stated so himself on stream.
That poll tho, i bet no one is trolling right now hahahahahahaha
This thread is golden.
I always knew Avilo and Winter were perfect for eachother, now they can finaly live their love, united by fooling their fans. (just a joke, not acusing Avilo yet).
On April 19 2017 09:47 TKiFenris wrote: I'm not sure I agree. He said that he'd do dreamhack if he raised the full amount and if he didn't he'd use some of the rest in order to run a community tournament of some kind (he hasn't decided which kind of tournament yet). He's not going to pocket the money and has stated so himself on stream.
Well that was not specified in the original post, and Avilo didn't say that when I said it was borderline scam in the WCS Austin Full Player List thread
On April 19 2017 09:49 xTJx wrote: That poll tho, i bet no one is trolling right now hahahahahahaha
This thread is golden.
I always knew Avilo and Winter were perfect for eachother, now they can finaly live their love, united by fooling their fans. (just a joke, not acusing Avilo yet).
What does Winter have to do with this? And when was he fooling his fans?
Are you trying to get warned twice in one thread?
Honestly, as much as I think Avilo is.... (radio edit)... we need people like him in SC2. It keeps it interesting. Nothing beats that video of Vibe versus Avilo, I was laughing so hard at the end of it. I need stuff like that.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
wasn't the whole prize pool even smaller than what Avilo just made from those donations?
I just booked plane tickets from California and a hotel for 3 nights to Dreamhack Austin yesterday and it costed around $1,000. I'm not sure how $3500 was estimated.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
wasn't the whole prize pool even smaller than what Avilo just made from those donations?
Aside from the monetary prize pool, there was the flight to south korea, being housed in teamhouse. Those costs + prize money would have been definitely more than 3k.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
wasn't the whole prize pool even smaller than what Avilo just made from those donations?
Aside from the monetary prize pool, there was the flight to south korea, being housed in teamhouse. Those costs + prize money would have been definitely more than 3k.
On April 13 2017 08:48 Shield wrote: Just watching avilo's stream to laugh at his crap. It seems his chat guys say that avilo got $2400 but isn't going to Dreamhack. True or false? :D
Has he even ever competed for real? I feel like he'll be afraid to go there but I would like to see his results in LAN.
i don't remember who, but somebody posted in the WCS thread that they played avilo at a lan once and he complained about lag when he lost so...
rofl that sounds idiotic. Although i do remember at one event something was wrong with the internet (for everyone) that could be what someone was referring to otherwise just someone making up random bs.
On April 13 2017 08:48 Shield wrote: Just watching avilo's stream to laugh at his crap. It seems his chat guys say that avilo got $2400 but isn't going to Dreamhack. True or false? :D
On April 13 2017 08:48 Shield wrote: Just watching avilo's stream to laugh at his crap. It seems his chat guys say that avilo got $2400 but isn't going to Dreamhack. True or false? :D
that would be pretty close to a scam
I am not on a team so i personally would have to cover all the costs of travel, hotel, etc. I always have a stream goal of like 100$ per day normally because why not i'm one of the top SC2 streamers xD.
So i set an even higher goal for this event hoping to essentially crowdfund the cost of travel, hotel, lost stream time, etc.
Unfortunately haven't met the goal, i basically just made what i would have streaming normally over the last 30 or so days. The mega high donation goal was to hopefully spur people on to get me to the event.
Do people really think paying to go to events is mega cheap? Hotels can cost couple hundred over the course of a few nights (variable), and plane tickets are also hundreds of dollars.
The time lost streaming aka working is also a lot of income gone for going to these events. So yeh.
I was very transparent about the goal i set from the very beginning of when i set it about 30 days ago. I was also transparent to everyone that watches me that i honestly think going to events is not worth the monetary investment unless you're already on a team that covers all the costs, but i would go if i met the lofty goal i had set.
On April 13 2017 08:48 Shield wrote: Just watching avilo's stream to laugh at his crap. It seems his chat guys say that avilo got $2400 but isn't going to Dreamhack. True or false? :D
Has he even ever competed for real? I feel like he'll be afraid to go there but I would like to see his results in LAN.
Why would i be afraid to go to a LAN i probably have more LAN experience than a lot of the newer SC2 players lol. I somehow seem to play pretty good at LANs probably because of adrenaline and such and getting pumped.
But again, to be 100% honest unless you're currently sponsored or on a team it is 100% not worth it to travel to events if it is coming out of your own pocket for a game like SC2. The return on investment is likely to be very little to nothing, especially if it's not guaranteed your matches in the open bracket will even be covered on stream.
If this were 2011 and the game is at it's highest point, and there are events galore, etc. it'd be another story. But it's just a huge risk unless you know you're 100000x better than everyone at the event and can survive 99 cheeses in the open bracket.
I'm not saying i wouldn't want to go to this DH or any upcoming events, but unless i get sponsored or on a team it's pretty expensive to get to these events, money-wise and time-wise, so i do not understand why there's people in this thread acting as if everyone has stacks of cash laying around in their house to freely travel across the world everywhere.
On April 19 2017 09:26 TKiFenris wrote: He said he'd go to dreamhack only if he hit the full goal. He didn't hit the entire goal so he's not going. It's definitely not a scam.
If you're asking for donations for a specific purpose, the way it works is that if you don't get enough money for the purpose people specifically donated money towards, you give it back. To be fair - it's very possible that many of those donations would still be coming if Avilo wasn't asking for money to go to dreamhack, that many of the donations were fans supporting him regardless of that, and that Avilo didn't, and had no real way of tracking whether the donations were dreamhack-specific. And I mean people who donated for him to go to dreamhack clearly did so from a fan pov anyway.
If that's the case, then I still most certainly think the smart thing to do (most people's reputation is worth more than $3k) would be to offer to give any money back that people claim they donated to send him to dreamhack - kinda unlikely that fans would falsely make such a claim to get back their $10, or whatever.
This thread is from people that are not fans of my stream, nor viewers and are haters trying to stir up a ruckus over nothing. As you just mentioned, and as well as i have many times on stream,
I actually made approximately the same amount/LESS than i would have from standard donations during my last 30 or so days of streaming.
I set an extremely high goal from the beginning of 30 days ago in the hopes that people would donate on top of what i normally make from stream donations, so that i could afford to go to DH Austin.
Previously, i already had set a daily goal of 100$ for donations every single day i streamed. Many days i manage to hit that when i'm fortunate enough, some days not. That's just streaming for you.
I was 100% transparent from the beginning of setting the extremely high goal that if i did not hit the goal, i would not be going to DH unless i'm going to literally pay for travel/hotel etc. essentially out of my own pocket.
Maybe there are people that misunderstanding why i set the extremely high goal in the first place and are assuming that i magically made an EXTRA 2.5K over what i normally make streaming...which is not the case at all.
I wish that were the case!
This is literally just a "hate avilo" thread as usual. From some person that found an opportunity to try to bring me down as usual. Or someone that is jealous and thinks i'm storing stacks of cash that i don't have on my bunkbed somewhere.
edit: The guy that made this thread is probably of the mindset that "streamers like avilo" are undeserving of getting any donations at all or setting such a high goal for going to DH.
Which is perfectly fine. That's your subjective opinion, there's plenty of people that do not like every streamer they watch, and will never donate to them or support them, that's your choice. You do not control my twitch stream, or have any relevance to what i decide to make as a donation goal on my stream or any other twitch streamers.
I was transparent about the very high goal since the beginning and it's unfortunate that i did not reach the goal in the time i had set. If i want to get to an event in the near future i'm going to just have to personally budget as well as i can, and/or find a sponsor or a team to help cover costs.
Avilo Subscriber here. I've donated over $100 in the hopes of seeing Avilo reach Dreamhack. It would have been inspiring to see him compete as he performed quite well at WCS regionals ( until he faced known Hacker ). His excuse was that he needed the money to take TWO people to Dreamhack. Either way, I feel betrayed by Avilo and I will be cancelling my subscription to his channel.
On April 19 2017 10:21 Ling_Bane_Platypus wrote: Avilo Subscriber here. I've donated over $100 in the hopes of seeing Avilo reach Dreamhack. It would have been inspiring to see him compete as he performed quite well at WCS regionals ( until he faced known Hacker ). His excuse was that he needed the money to take TWO people to Dreamhack. Either way, I feel betrayed by Avilo and I will be cancelling my subscription to his channel.
On April 19 2017 09:26 TKiFenris wrote: He said he'd go to dreamhack only if he hit the full goal. He didn't hit the entire goal so he's not going. It's definitely not a scam.
If you're asking for donations for a specific purpose, the way it works is that if you don't get enough money for the purpose people specifically donated money towards, you give it back. To be fair - it's very possible that many of those donations would still be coming if Avilo wasn't asking for money to go to dreamhack, that many of the donations were fans supporting him regardless of that, and that Avilo didn't, and had no real way of tracking whether the donations were dreamhack-specific. And I mean people who donated for him to go to dreamhack clearly did so from a fan pov anyway.
If that's the case, then I still most certainly think the smart thing to do (most people's reputation is worth more than $3k) would be to offer to give any money back that people claim they donated to send him to dreamhack - kinda unlikely that fans would falsely make such a claim to get back their $10, or whatever.
I agree. I would never ask for the money back. I wouldn't mind him hosting a tournament or something and putting all proceeds to that, or spending it on the community some how. Or even going to dream hack? 3k is way more then enough.
Over the course of the last 30 days i mentioned this a lot on stream, that if i did not reach the goal i would definitely be putting a bit of the last 30 day's worth of donations that i earned towards a LOTV/HOTS tourney played on a mod/edited map with my own personal balance tweaks/1500 mineral patches.
This thread is fuckin idiotic that anyone in their right mind thinks i would ever try to scam anyone or anything from SC2. I stream the goddamn game everyday lol.
The last thing i did monetarily related to SC2 was literally throwing money for my own King of the Hill tournament, where i basically gave away over 500$+
So how long is this thread gonna be standing up that's basically just trying to tarnish my name?
This community honestly fuckin disgusts me. Learn to treat your own better.
Great work though TL! Leaving the thread up from an obvious "avilo hater" that has a 4 post account -_-
while I think its a slimy thing to do (hell I hate this whole trend of "people please donate to my GoFundme/etc because I dont work a job as I'm a fulltime "twitch"/blogger/internet sensation now" crap) and I think almost all of those things are scams unless they are providing a specific product.. but anyone who donated to Avilo should have known the facts; he wont show his face at a major event, anyone who A) thought $3500 was "reasonable" to make him goto dreamhack and B) thought he'd actually go through with it are fools IMO.
Great work though TL! Leaving the thread up from an obvious "avilo hater" that has a 4 post account -_-
Before you responded, it seemed like an issue that warranted discussion. After you responded, it still seems like an issue that warrants some discussion.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
Iirc smuft eventually donated like... 5k? To another (TL run I think) tournament to make up for it.
Could be remembering things incorrectly, was a number of years ago.
On April 19 2017 08:41 iamperfection wrote: Its a donation he can use it however he wants its not like you have a contract between you and him.
Its a shitty thing to do an im pretty sure you can do a charge back if it wasn't that long ago??
Other than that just don't watch his stream and support someone else.
Yeah but now it seems to me as if he set a very high goal that he thought could not be hit so he could pocket the money because he knew he'd get more donations then he normally would with his fake intent.
Honestly, this is the kind of retardation that makes this thread idiotic in the first place.
First of all, you cannot police twitch streams. Second of all, i'll placate you and anyone else - i literally said if i did not reach the goal i'd be putting back some of the money i made in the last 30 days towards an SC2 tournament...
SC2 people honestly won't be pleased until they try to drive everyone that still plays the game away from the game and the community. Been in this community since the game launched, and the amount of ridiculous hate and bullshit thrown my way is really tiring.
Great work though TL! Leaving the thread up from an obvious "avilo hater" that has a 4 post account -_-
Before you responded, it seemed like an issue that warranted discussion. After you responded, it still seems like an issue that warrants some discussion.
There is no issue. It's someone that's disgruntled and trying to stir up community drama. The thread is basically just attempting to defame/slander me, all because some person in the SC2 community thinks they should decide what i do with money donated on my stream.
Refer to my other posts in this thread.
This thread is just basically the usual "hate avilo thread" from some disgruntled viewer or someone that thinks they can try to hurt my donation income in the future through his slander saying i scammed viewers when i have clearly not.
I managed to visit Europe with one other for 10 days on $4k. Being from Texas and having been to Austin multiple times, including once for Dreamhack, I personally think $3k is plenty for the duration of the event.
The Dreamhack-specific donations should've been done through a service that can easily refund if the goal isn't met.
On April 19 2017 09:49 xTJx wrote: That poll tho, i bet no one is trolling right now hahahahahahaha
This thread is golden.
I always knew Avilo and Winter were perfect for eachother, now they can finaly live their love, united by fooling their fans. (just a joke, not acusing Avilo yet).
What does Winter have to do with this? And when was he fooling his fans?
Are you trying to get warned twice in one thread?
Honestly, as much as I think Avilo is.... (radio edit)... we need people like him in SC2. It keeps it interesting. Nothing beats that video of Vibe versus Avilo, I was laughing so hard at the end of it. I need stuff like that.
No we don´t. This guy has openly accused several pro´s of cheating and several non-pros and countless other people that stream (!) like this guy:
That´s why one of Jason´s friends made the video. It really hurts people´s reputation cause there are people that actually believe this crap. Not to mention the countless insult´s he has thrown at people on twitter and the comment section on youtube under his videos, in-game and most likely on other media. Just look at the video vs Vibe. " I spit over your mom." and then even expects an answer from his opponent. While Vibe also did some things that are not cool (making fun of his lisp), why behave so immature and not be the better person? He had the chance to show it and blew it. Instead he makes it worse by showing his immaturity even more instead of behaving like a 30 year old guy. It really makes you wonder why his stream is even featured or why there hasn´t been any actions against him with all the cheat/hack accusing. In other games people would even get banned from the game.
Being a bad boy is one thing and you can always do that without throwing insults etc. Being toxic is a completely different thing. If this what the OP posted is just remotely true in the slightest (banning people from chat just because he asked about the donation money) then no, we definitly need not people like that and people should avoid him.
On April 19 2017 09:49 xTJx wrote: That poll tho, i bet no one is trolling right now hahahahahahaha
This thread is golden.
I always knew Avilo and Winter were perfect for eachother, now they can finaly live their love, united by fooling their fans. (just a joke, not acusing Avilo yet).
What does Winter have to do with this? And when was he fooling his fans?
Are you trying to get warned twice in one thread?
Honestly, as much as I think Avilo is.... (radio edit)... we need people like him in SC2. It keeps it interesting. Nothing beats that video of Vibe versus Avilo, I was laughing so hard at the end of it. I need stuff like that.
No we don´t. This guy has openly accused several pro´s of cheating and several non-pros and countless other people that stream (!) like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw_IKw-Z2HE That´s why one of Jason´s friends made the video. It really hurts people´s reputation cause there are people that actually believe this crap. Not to mention the countless insult´s he has thrown at people on twitter and the comment section on youtube under his videos, in-game and most likely on other media. Just look at the video vs Vibe. " I spit over your mom." and then even expects an answer from his opponent. While Vibe also did some things that are not cool (making fun of his lisp), why behave so immature and not be the better person? He had the chance to show it and blew it. Instead he makes it worse by showing his immaturity even more instead of behaving like a 30 year old guy. It really makes you wonder why his stream is even featured or why there hasn´t been any actions against him with all the cheat/hack accusing. In other games people would even get banned from the game.
Being a bad boy is one thing and you can always do that without throwing insults etc. Being toxic is a completely different thing. If this what the OP posted is just remotely true in the slightest (banning people from chat just because he asked about the donation money) then no, we definitly need not people like that and people should avoid him.
And here weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee gooooooooo...
Hoping a moderator will help out here. Nice obvious attempt from whoever made it to start another hate avilo bandwagon. I can't wait for more irrelevant posts about me to pop up.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
Iirc smuft eventually donated like... 5k? To another (TL run I think) tournament to make up for it.
Could be remembering things incorrectly, was a number of years ago.
So he bought his way back into TL's good graces? That doesn't really make up for the 20 dollar fee that everyone paid to the tournament organizers. Every single player got shafted out of money and an opportunity.
Personally I dont see how this is a scam. Avilo set a donation goal to go to an event, goal was not met, he is not going to event. No broken promise here as far as I'm concerned. Unless it's explicitly stated that you get your money back if the donation goal isn't met (i.e. Kickstarter with the all-or-nothing funding policy) I dont see why it would be expected to do so. And while I do think $3500 was a little high of a goal for attending Dreamhack, unless Avilo suddenly bumped up the target goal or something when it was getting close to the goal (highly doubtful since nobody has whined about it yet) I dont see why it matters, he said from the start what the goal was and it wasn't reached.
On April 19 2017 10:53 iSvPursuit wrote: Personally I dont see how this is a scam. Avilo set a donation goal to go to an event, goal was not met, he is not going to event. No broken promise here as far as I'm concerned.
Right... except if I say I'm collecting money so I can donate 5k to the Red Cross, but I only get 4k and I say well I'm going to pocket this cause I didn't reach my goal... I am still a douche.
On April 19 2017 10:37 avilo wrote: Been in this community since the game launched, and the amount of ridiculous hate and bullshit thrown my way is really tiring.
On April 19 2017 09:58 ReachTheSky wrote: This is nothing compared to the WDT scam ran by Smuft/Elky during the BW days. TL turned a blind eye towards that.
Iirc smuft eventually donated like... 5k? To another (TL run I think) tournament to make up for it.
Could be remembering things incorrectly, was a number of years ago.
So he bought his way back into TL's good graces? That doesn't really make up for the 20 dollar fee that everyone paid to the tournament organizers. Every single player got shafted out of money and an opportunity.
Did not mean to imply that it did, I played the WDTour ladder too.
EPT
