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On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote:
You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did.
oh yeah ive no fuckin idea, i just saw people piledriving demuslim for an off-handed comment im assuming he made thinking the logs were real, and it seemed like such a dumb distraction from the real issue
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Interesting.. surely both sides cant both be telling the truth on this issue
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Why is this stuff news? No business transactions of this sort in the real world use cash... This might as well be a bunch of 10-year-olds fighting. Stuff like this shouldn't be given attention. Smh...
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Interesting.. surely both sides cant both be telling the truth on this issue
As it is certain that Sebou still owed money to Choy/Gumiho after 15 months - he does not look good in this whatever else he has done.
Besides, Invasion E-sport should not have paid out Gumiho's prize money to Sebou. This is outright illegal.
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On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote:
You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with.
This is why I take nothing BASETRADETV says anymore seriously
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On August 02 2016 08:27 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +Interesting.. surely both sides cant both be telling the truth on this issue As it is certain that Sebou still owed money to Choy/Gumiho after 15 months - he does not look good in this whatever else he has done. Besides, Invasion E-sport should not have paid out Gumiho's prize money to Sebou. This is outright illegal.
In the time Gumiho earned that 5k dollars, he wasnt even part of Invasion E-Sport.
Sebou says he payed Gumihos flights to EU out of his own pocket because he wanted to support him. But is save that he has not been under Invasion contract, as KESPA forced Gumiho to be soly under MVP contract.
As Sebou is the owner of the Invasion time, that might become quite confusing, but there has been no contract in this, as Gumhio was not part of Invasion during that time. More like some guys talked something over, did it, and when they remember what they said, they come up with two different versions. The given lines by Choya never tell us, what was said by Choya/Sebou in the first place (will Sebous lines dont look really legit and cant be used as anything evidential). And that what would matter the first place.
But I am not really neutral on this, the Choya-MLG story always branded Choya for me as someone stupid who calls out online instead of thinking things through, as also calling someone with "hey fuck guy" and ending it with "you delusional cunt" makes me believing him.
I guess that will ran in the soild, good for Invasion, that the scenes are disconnected anyway and his players will not really suffer from this, well, if they get paid, which I think they do, or else players like Lambo or Harstem would have left I guess.
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On August 02 2016 08:01 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote:
You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. oh yeah ive no fuckin idea, i just saw people piledriving demuslim for an off-handed comment im assuming he made thinking the logs were real, and it seemed like such a dumb distraction from the real issue
well the "real issue" in these cases usually amounts to a bunch fo people arguing for 2-4 weeks until someone makes an official announcement about the situation or it just fades away
so i mean what is the "real issue" for us to discuss? it's the same thing as matchfixing threads. people choose who to believe and start yelling
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I guess that will ran in the soild, good for Invasion, that the scenes are disconnected anyway and his players will not really suffer from this, well, if they get paid, which I think they do, or else players like Lambo or Harstem would have left I guess
These are not disconnected. Sebou recieved full 5000$ Gumiho prize money {without tax} - that is only possible if the money was funneled through Invasion esport - which was send to them on fraudulant basis in the first place , if the contract was void.
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This shit is getting ridiculous.
Where is the proof on both sides? All I see is mud flinging and other figures chiming in.
tbh I don't know what exactly is going on because I will not wade through this pile of shit to find the truth, even if you gave me the most amazing blowjob ever.
All I see is twitter comments and reddit links with both sides saying contradictory things (no surprise there).
Could a kind TLer please sum up any proof provide by either side?
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On August 02 2016 09:14 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
This shit is getting ridiculous.
Where is the proof on both sides? All I see is mud flinging and other figures chiming in.
tbh I don't know what exactly is going on because I will not wade through this pile of shit to find the truth, even if you gave me the most amazing blowjob ever.
All I see is twitter comments and reddit links with both sides saying contradictory things (no surprise there).
Could a kind TLer please sum up any proof provide by either side?
Choya has time stamped conversations and the backing of another coach.
The invasion guy has poorly photo-shopped conversations and the backing of a known shitposter
TLDR
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I'm starting to salivate over this juicy drama. First CSGO betting, now this? BRB, I need some popcorn.
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On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote:
You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with.
Savage.
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Thanks LongShot, but judging by the tone in your word choice, you seem biased against Invasion (et. al).
A time-stamped conversation is a good start, but more proof is still necessary. Contracts or receipts would be a good start, as well as more correspondence between the two parties. Any emails that went back/forth? Backing of another coach is not proof.
Is the 'poorly photo-shopped conversation' really photoshopped? What proof that it is a fake? Backing of a known shitposter might discredit Invasion (et. al) but that isn't proof against them.
I am trying to remain unbiased, and I hope others try to. We can't jump to conclusions (even though I would love to be on Gumiho's side cuz he is the fucking Towel Terran).
Also, this shit is getting boring. It was interesting when Quantic screwed Hyun, and the drama ensued with other teams, but its getting played out now.
Guys, get a fucking contract. Don't rely on someone's word, because words can be misinterpreted.
edit: and lets stop with the fundraising to bail out these guys... I know it sucks that he is screwed over, but if we keep bailing out our progamers, they will never learn to protect themselves.
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Could a kind TLer please sum up any proof provide by either side?
Sebou admited in his own reddit post he believed he owed some money to Choy/Gumiho.
This is 15 months late.
Sebou added that since this has gone public - really arrangments were different and its Choy who owes him money.
Choy's posts suggest he demanded payment multiple times but was refuted by some nonsensical excuses.
If any of the posts presented are true - there has been criminal activities going on, based on tax evasion and criminal charges could be filed on all persons involved. I especially worry about Harstem who should take care about making his tax statements for 2016.
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I like how like, monetary transactions in the thousands are being casually negotiated and discussed on skype / twitter / etc. in two people's broken English...
Seriously, you need more than just what people say here. Though, I'm inclined to believe Choya / Legend more than Invasion guy simply because it's Invasion, and because some of the chat logs are embarrassing for the Invasion guy. Seriously, some of the excuses are just ridiculous.
Oh well, poor SC2 scene.
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On August 02 2016 09:35 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Thanks LongShot, but judging by the tone in your word choice, you seem biased against Invasion (et. al).
A time-stamped conversation is a good start, but more proof is still necessary. Contracts or receipts would be a good start, as well as more correspondence between the two parties. Any emails that went back/forth? Backing of another coach is not proof.
Is the 'poorly photo-shopped conversation' really photoshopped? What proof that it is a fake? Backing of a known shitposter might discredit Invasion (et. al) but that isn't proof against them.
I am trying to remain unbiased, and I hope others try to. We can't jump to conclusions (even though I would love to be on Gumiho's side cuz he is the fucking Towel Terran).
Also, this shit is getting boring. It was interesting when Quantic screwed Hyun, and the drama ensued with other teams, but its getting played out now.
Guys, get a fucking contract. Don't rely on someone's word, because words can be misinterpreted.
edit: and lets stop with the fundraising to bail out these guys... I know it sucks that he is screwed over, but if we keep bailing out our progamers, they will never learn to protect themselves.
I believe Legend posted a screenshot of the contract a few pages back.
From what I understand of the info I've gotten, both sides have different stories. Choya posted screenshots of his convo with Sebou where Sebou had excuses of credit card/paypal not working. Sebou posted stories where he paid in cash already.
Because Choya's screenshots had time logged (and that I don't believe Choya's English is good enough for him to fake it), I heavily favor Choya's argument here.
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Ok thanks Brutaxilos.
So both parties agreed that money is owed. Now we have one side saying "I paid" while other said "Gimme my money".
I still can't choose a side, but at least I have a better understanding.
edit: @Kafka Well I'm not surprised if illegal activities are going on, but that seems to be separate from the current issue (although it might have an impact).
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On August 02 2016 08:34 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 07:58 stuchiu wrote:On August 02 2016 07:55 Deathstar wrote:On August 02 2016 07:41 Aocowns wrote:On August 02 2016 07:36 Elentos wrote:On August 02 2016 07:31 SC2FeaR1 wrote:
You guys have no clue about the situation theres 2 ppl making statements and you just have to wait for whatever comes out of it but all this stupid hate on either choya sebou or for some reason demuslim ???? Is pointless and stupid imo just wanted to make that clear! Demuslim got hate for hating on Choya for no reason. Also Choya is backed up by Legend (coach of another Proleague team) who says he has a similar situation going on with Invasion, so it's not just 2 people. Besides, the odds that anything comes out of this at all are low. i mean demuslim isnt the only one https://twitter.com/Rif_kingz/status/760194273262247936not saying that as if it definitely makes sebou the victim here or whatever or that demu wasnt dumb to chime in, but it doesnt sound like it's "for no reason" "Sebou only does generous and nice things" aside from conning players of their money. How convenient of rifkin to leave out the factor that goes against his initial position. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors thought he was a nice and generous guy who participated in many charities and volunteer organizations. Except for the other stuff Jeffrey did. I imagine g2a was also nice and generous to work with. This is why I take nothing BASETRADETV says anymore seriously
did you before? :-D
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On August 02 2016 09:35 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Thanks LongShot, but judging by the tone in your word choice, you seem biased against Invasion (et. al).
A time-stamped conversation is a good start, but more proof is still necessary. Contracts or receipts would be a good start, as well as more correspondence between the two parties. Any emails that went back/forth? Backing of another coach is not proof.
Is the 'poorly photo-shopped conversation' really photoshopped? What proof that it is a fake? Backing of a known shitposter might discredit Invasion (et. al) but that isn't proof against them.
I am trying to remain unbiased, and I hope others try to. We can't jump to conclusions (even though I would love to be on Gumiho's side cuz he is the fucking Towel Terran).
Also, this shit is getting boring. It was interesting when Quantic screwed Hyun, and the drama ensued with other teams, but its getting played out now.
Guys, get a fucking contract. Don't rely on someone's word, because words can be misinterpreted.
edit: and lets stop with the fundraising to bail out these guys... I know it sucks that he is screwed over, but if we keep bailing out our progamers, they will never learn to protect themselves.
In this case it doesn't matter if you have a contract. The sum that is in play means that if you get actual lawyers to hold someone to the contract you are losing out on thousands more dollars.
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On August 02 2016 10:05 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Ok thanks Brutaxilos.
So both parties agreed that money is owed. Now we have one side saying "I paid" while other said "Gimme my money".
I still can't choose a side, but at least I have a better understanding.
edit: @Kafka Well I'm not surprised if illegal activities are going on, but that seems to be separate from the current issue (although it might have an impact).
The funny thing is, Sebou is now claiming that Choya and Gumiho owe him $6000. Which just makes his argument seem even worse. He'd either be lying or just doesn't know how to handle his finances. Both of which make him seem more guilty here.
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EPT
