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BeStFAN
483 Posts
it's the same problem with siege tanks (to some extent) range being easy to see, on steriods: so freaking easy to tip toe around the range when you know exactly where it is... also the same problem with scanner's radius being easy to see for the opposing player who has DT's running around in your base. just putting this out there because i think in the context I just laid out the greatly reduced effective radius just makes it all the more hideous -_- | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 05 2016 06:57 weikor wrote: perhaps the shape should be a slight Oval, and not a circle (if thats even possible). This way the total surface area could be increased, while decreasing the range of the liberator. This isn't a bad idea. By changing the shape you can control the range (important for harass strength) and area (important for direct battle) separately. Maybe I'd make it a half circle or some kind of cone or whatever. But I like this concept! | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
One thing that is weird that may not be realized here. The radius of the defense mode ability doesn't actually determine whether or not a unit is in range. Instead, any unit that enters the lib's attack radius receives a hidden behavior, which lasts for about 0.3 seconds. Only units having this behavior can be attacked by the liberator. So conceivably a unit that has been outside of the 5.0 radius can still be attacked by the liberator until the 0.3 seconds runs out. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XoGWv04.png) i can confirm that the search area effect for the liberator's anti ground attack is indeed now 5.0 radius however: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ocFaNlh.png) | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On April 05 2016 09:19 TheFish7 wrote: Just spent a few minutes digging into the Liberator in the editor. One thing that is weird that may not be realized here. The radius of the defense mode ability doesn't actually determine whether or not a unit is in range. Instead, any unit that enters the lib's attack radius receives a hidden behavior, which lasts for about 0.3 seconds. Only units having this behavior can be attacked by the liberator. So conceivably a unit that has been outside of the 5.0 radius can still be attacked by the liberator until the 0.3 seconds runs out. i can confirm that the search area effect for the liberator's anti ground attack is indeed now 5.0 radius however: Playing zerg i have noticed something like this, you can escape the radius but still lose your unit even befroe the lib fires its other shot. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On April 05 2016 08:45 BeStFAN wrote: one of the biggest weaknesses of the liberators since it's been introduced is that god damn UI indicator of it's range. it's the same problem with siege tanks (to some extent) range being easy to see, on steriods: so freaking easy to tip toe around the range when you know exactly where it is... also the same problem with scanner's radius being easy to see for the opposing player who has DT's running around in your base. just putting this out there because i think in the context I just laid out the greatly reduced effective radius just makes it all the more hideous -_- Its so easy to walk around the range because the unit is a fucking monster. You accidentally step into range or have a unit push another unit into range and its dead. No other single unit is that unforgiving or even close. It has to have some form of drawback. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 05 2016 09:19 TheFish7 wrote: Just spent a few minutes digging into the Liberator in the editor. One thing that is weird that may not be realized here. The radius of the defense mode ability doesn't actually determine whether or not a unit is in range. Instead, any unit that enters the lib's attack radius receives a hidden behavior, which lasts for about 0.3 seconds. Only units having this behavior can be attacked by the liberator. So conceivably a unit that has been outside of the 5.0 radius can still be attacked by the liberator until the 0.3 seconds runs out. i can confirm that the search area effect for the liberator's anti ground attack is indeed now 5.0 radius however: This would also explain the bug they had at the start, where liberators could shoot in other liberators zones. | ||
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BeStFAN
483 Posts
On April 05 2016 11:17 chipmonklord17 wrote: Its so easy to walk around the range because the unit is a fucking monster. You accidentally step into range or have a unit push another unit into range and its dead. No other single unit is that unforgiving or even close. It has to have some form of drawback. yeah; despite my grievances with the peculiarities that disadvantage me as a player that obviously has an interest in making it easier for my opponents to fuck up; the unit itself is not a very enjoyable one to have in the arsenal. even though it's quite strong it's not very rewarding to use. even though it's strong it's frustrating to use, and honestly it's comical how quickly it kills shit. it's the same kind of feelings i have towards the all army button and the worker counter above command centers: as a player it helps me out a lot to have these things but it gives no joy. the liberator is a permanent addition to SC2 at this point and that does not make me happy  | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On April 05 2016 08:48 PinoKotsBeer wrote: The "hard to spot" liberator ring is an improvement. Why? because we cant see the attack range of zerg/protoss units either. We cant even see a burrowed lurker. but a mine? yes , including attack line etc That's because there's only one unit in those races that can one shot a 100/50 unit like the hydra: the disruptor. You can easily see the disruptor shots. It's easier to spot them than the lib freedom circle. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On April 05 2016 18:02 Vanadiel wrote: Honestly, as Zerg I really feel that the problem with Liberator is more its AA attack rather than its ground to air. For protoss, as I do not play this race, would a nerf of Libs AA allow to transition toward Colossi in late game? the problem with colossus isn't liberators, it's the colossus itself | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On April 05 2016 18:02 Vanadiel wrote: Honestly, as Zerg I really feel that the problem with Liberator is more its AA attack rather than its ground to air. For protoss, as I do not play this race, would a nerf of Libs AA allow to transition toward Colossi in late game? Funny enough Collossi are actually decent vs Libs (even if they can't attack them) because sometimes protoss can use them to poke at buildings/bio units from outside the freedom circle. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On April 05 2016 21:08 ihatevideogames wrote: So, is Blizzard basically telling us we're not allowed to play macro games as Terran? With that nickname you should not play any game at all lmao | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On April 05 2016 06:03 dani` wrote: Good observations, well explained. However, I do wonder why you are using the surface area of a sphere (4π × r^2) as opposed to the surface area of a circle (π × r^2). Liberation zone is a flat, 2D circle on the ground and is not a sphere. Not that it really matters in terms of the percentages you present of course (since it's a flat 4x multiplier), I just wanted to point it out  It DOES matter, I was just reading his formulas and it made my eyes bleed. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On April 05 2016 21:08 ihatevideogames wrote: So, is Blizzard basically telling us we're not allowed to play macro games as Terran? Troll accounts shout be banned. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 05 2016 21:51 Gwavajuice wrote: It DOES matter, I was just reading his formulas and it made my eyes bleed. As long as it scales with the square of the radius it doesn't matter. No one cares how many square blizzard units anything is. People only care that it is 1.5x or 0.7x as large. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
LET'S SHOUT AT THEM VERY LOUDLY | ||
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