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8748 Posts
On March 28 2016 01:55 BronzeKnee wrote:But if you want to have fun, and just relax and play a game after work, games that follow good game design patterns are much better. I'll leave you guys this, Zileas' (VP of Game Design for LoL) List of Game Design Anti-Patterns: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417
fuck that. have fun with your casual shit. just agree to disagree. if you like game design and "having fun" and i like self-improvement and competition, then we have different values. there's no point for people like you to come to a community of people like me to try to force your preferences on me.
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I think a pro players needs to have this mentality towards the game. You take what's there and squeeze the best juice out of it.
Personally, once a huge fan of sc2 I gradually lost interest in playing after Hots came out. The game became too complex and volatile for me. I still watch though.
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On March 25 2016 05:20 BronzeKnee wrote:
So, I don't play like the pros play, but neither will my opponent. And I wouldn't be matched with my opponent on ladder if I was that much better anyway.
And that is where the whole "get better argument" fails. Of course if I was better than my opponent, I'd have a better chance to beat them even if the game is unbalanced, but then, couldn't my opponent just get better too?
And if we both became top players, we'd suffer the same issues at the top that the top players are currently suffering.
I understand when people say "well if your macro was better you would have won." Which is probably often true and useful information when you are striving to be your best. But if you're playing for fun, you look at the loss and say we have equal macro skill, equal micro, but he won with an abusive build, let's take the old 1-1-1 for example, that at the time was getting abused at the top level.
So the gold player had every right to complain about the 1-1-1, even if he was sloppy and his opponent was sloppy. Because eventually no matter how much better he got, he'd just end up facing Puma and losing to his 1-1-1 because the game was poorly balanced.
Sadly, the PvZ winrate now, is worse than the PvT winrate was during the height of the 1-1-1. So yeah, Blizzard isn't doing a good job when it comes to that. It doesn't have to be like this, Blizzard has so far to game when it comes to design.
And at the moment on my account, I play versus diamond and low masters players.
But the moral of this story is, getting better doesn't allow one to escape imbalance and poor game design. Sorry.
Dude. You seem so set on proving how Starcraft isn't fun for you that your entire argument is focussed on your experience. If you're not having fun, and the game is so fucking broken as you claim, why stick around? Also, getting better is how you get over balance issues. I'm sorry PvZ is pissing you off right now, you probably should take a break. Your post reeks of a bruised ego, We know that PvZ sucks but literally nothing you said was constructive. If you're playing for fun, do something that's fun. Surely venting on TL isn't that fun.
Nony summed it up well.
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On April 06 2016 14:50 todespolka wrote:
I am really not sure if balance exists in lower leagues.
It does and is ignored by most people, yet at the same time people are in dark why there is no new blood and casuals don't stick around.
Simplest examples:
- baneling. In a world where a bronze player can only a-move, and his opponent can only a-move, banelings are as op as they can get.
- race per league distribution. Protoss occupies most places in lowest leagues, while zerg is underrepresented. It simply means protoss is harder to learn then zerg by a great margin. Not imbalanced, but just takes more commitment. Shifting through 15 button press abilities is harder then a-move and spamming one or two spells.
"Get better" doesn't work for someone who wants to relax after 10h shift at work for half an hour before walking the dog and spending some time with kids.
And finally, it is not exclusive for the game to be fun and challenging at the same time.
Lol pros are also not casuals, even if the game is more casual friendly.
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I personally am more interested in how you apply this mentality to life, since it's something I've thought about too. This whole thing about trying to do the best with what you have vs. trying to make what you have better.
Ultimately, my feeling is, why is this inherently an either/or thing. I get that as an SC2 player (or a whatever player), if you want to improve, you have to sit down and use what you got to do it. And I get that letting yourself worry about things like balance and such is counterproductive insofar as it can make you oblivious to the things you've done on an individual level that contributed to your losing streak or whatever. So maybe it's easier, in a way, to just be like, screw thinking about balance, it's not helping me. But sometimes I do think it's worth taking a moment, maybe not when you're playing the game, not even when you're watching a replay, but when you're, I dunno, lying in bed, or chatting with a friend about the game, to think, is there a way in which this could be more fair? I don't see why there isn't a place for those questions too.
I dunno, personally, I think they're both relevant, but you have to know when it's helpful to think about each of them (and when it isn't).
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One thing I've found that greatly improved my enjoyment of the game is to play team games. In team games, I can focus on making the units that I enjoy making, and my allies can cover for my weaknesses. Queue times are shorter than in DotA 2, despite that game having many more players than this one. This suggests to me that the team game player base is much larger than most people realize because we don't have consistent stats on team players.
Heck, it was even confirmed a while back that coop players outnumber all ladder players.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/506036-morten-co-op-more-popular-than-pvp-in-month-on
I wouldn't be surprised if team players actually outnumber 1v1 players, as most of them play unranked, and are therefore not counted in community league player counts.
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On April 08 2016 02:23 Nazara wrote:
"Get better" doesn't work for someone who wants to relax after 10h shift at work for half an hour before walking the dog and spending some time with kids.
I would say SC2 in general, and not just "getting better at SC2", is not something you do to relax. At least it's not for me. I love playing it and play when I can, but that's not usually after work because I'm just too tired to play it. Typically I just want to come home, chill, and turn the brain off.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 08 2016 03:02 Damusson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 02:23 Nazara wrote:
"Get better" doesn't work for someone who wants to relax after 10h shift at work for half an hour before walking the dog and spending some time with kids. I would say SC2 in general, and not just "getting better at SC2", is not something you do to relax. At least it's not for me. I love playing it and play when I can, but that's not usually after work because I'm just too tired to play it. Typically I just want to come home, chill, and turn the brain off.
I would agree. And added that this is why SC2 has so low player base
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EPT
