oh lord Stork going up against the GateKeeper but group F is insane creator Classic Solar with speed thrown into the mix could be in for good games there
Group G and H seems to be the most unpredictable imo. All 4 on Group G is doing well and on group H, Dear and soO are likely to advance but HerO and DRG can and might upset those two if they aren't careful. Hoping for Dear and HerO to go though
Rogue Zest, herO Dream, MyuNgSiK Soulkey, Stork Cure, TY Trap, Solar Classic, Dark Losira, Dear soO. Those are my predictions. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. These players are good. What a round of 16 this would be.
On February 11 2016 14:36 Shellshock wrote: eh. doesnt feel like there's a real group of death for me
Yeah, agreed. Mind you, at the moment I feel like things are still up in the air enough that I'm not even totally sure what a group of death would look like. I feel like we've already had a cycle of players looking incredible and others surpassing them.
On February 11 2016 14:36 Shellshock wrote: eh. doesnt feel like there's a real group of death for me
Yeah, agreed. Mind you, at the moment I feel like things are still up in the air enough that I'm not even totally sure what a group of death would look like. I feel like we've already had a cycle of players looking incredible and others surpassing them.
On February 11 2016 13:19 OSCEWiNtER wrote: A: Rogue, Zest B: herO, Dream C: Soulkey, Myungsik D: Cure, Curious E: TY, Departure F: Solar, Classic G: aLive, Dark H: Dear, soO
Spot on what I would predict as well, there are a few picks where I could see it go either way though. Taeja, Leenock and Stork has realy upset potential in their Groups.
No group of deaths here for me, just good groups. Balance of the groups in terms of races is the best its been in years, even when it was another 10-11-11 race balance it was always a silly group of 3"x" race but this time none of that!
On February 11 2016 19:25 ejozl wrote: What are these tiers 1,2,3,4 ? edit: playing order?
Basically GSL rankings. They assigned a tier to each player based on GSL results in the previous year, and the initial matchups are always T1 (highest seed) vs T4 (lowest seed) and T2 vs T3.
On February 11 2016 19:25 ejozl wrote: What are these tiers 1,2,3,4 ? edit: playing order?
Basically GSL rankings. They assigned a tier to each player based on GSL results in the previous year, and the initial matchups are always T1 (highest seed) vs T4 (lowest seed) and T2 vs T3.
This is really well done! And we can be happy, it ended up with a perfect race split ...
I feel bad for Taeja in that group, but Zest and sexy boy hype Also Stork might have some chance to advance, gogo Stork. And SpeeD... I don't think he can fulfill his wish to become a royal roader with this group
Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
Nicely split groups, next round should be super epic! Seems easy to pick 2 clear favorites out of each group, but the only thing I really know for certain is that Taeja is going to get smashed. Would be epic if stork made it through his group somehow.. it's almost possible... fanboy hope lives on!
Group G is pretty close aLive's TvZ has looked good and he beat Bbyong in PL & SSL qualis Dark's ZvT is great but his ZvZ is probably worse than Losira's Bbyong hasn't been too great in LotV but he's good at preparation
A group of death to start it and one to end it even though I think group G is a tiny bit stronger. Stork has a really good shot in his group. Would love to see him in the Ro16.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Just wondering how group a is considered a group of death when rogue and zest are massive favorites to make it out. I always thought group of death was supposed to be at least hard to predict in its result.
On February 12 2016 00:43 zealotstim wrote: Just wondering how group a is considered a group of death when rogue and zest are massive favorites to make it out. I always thought group of death was supposed to be at least hard to predict in its result.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
This whole "TL writers Liquid bias" thing is so nonsensical it's incredible. I'm the only one on our sc2 writing staff that's actually a Liquid fan, and I dare you to find an article of mine that lacks objectivity in favor of TL.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Maybe not the best comparison, but everybody was saying Panthers were the massive favorites and Broncos had no chance, and well, gg Panthers : )
Sure some players are the favorites, but other players have always the potential to pull the upset. A poll is only representative of which group are people most looking for.
A ? Just WoW. Only Zest is good there right now. In Hots would be close between him and Rogue, but now unfortunately Rouge has fallen off a bit. And Taeja is now ... ( looking for a proper word ) ... bad. 3-2 against nerfed protoss noname ? C'mon, it's one of the worst groups in terms of players' current form.
On February 11 2016 20:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
On February 11 2016 20:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
On February 11 2016 20:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
On February 11 2016 20:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
Sigbet on group h?
But I like my sig ;(
And you have to beat drg
Then again I've never lost a sigbet, might be a valuable experience.
I won't let you pull a fast one on me buddy. What'd you do? Inverse the image, photoshop out the headphones and gray scale the image? There's not even a proper birth date for the fake KT SpeeDMvP profile someone created.
I won't let you pull a fast one on me buddy. What'd you do? Inverse the image, photoshop out the headphones and gray scale the image? There's not even a proper birth date for the fake KT SpeeDMvP profile someone created.
On February 11 2016 20:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Who voted A? B is the toughest group imo. herO is herO, he's got nothing else to focus on except PL, Leenock has already shown how sick he is in LotV, Dream is one of the best terrans in the world. Seed is dead though.
H I can see as well, depending on how they show up, but I don't trust Dear. HerO got through easily but it's very hard to say where he's at. DRG looked both great and terrible, so same goes for him. soO is amazing.
Sigbet on group h?
But I like my sig ;(
And you have to beat drg
Then again I've never lost a sigbet, might be a valuable experience.
HerO places higher than DRG -> I win?
I mean, surely someone ten times the player Impact is shouldn't have a problem doing that.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you and several others in this thread under appreciate this sentiment.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe several in this thread under appreciate this sentiment. You're the type of 'objective' 'fans' whose ideas of favorites change on a per match night basis, or nearly so. I'm going to leap faithfully into a statistical probability here and point out that the odds are very likely that all of such fans/posters in this thread, as well as myself, have memories of sucking big time when it comes to fantasy league and pl betting There's no issue with dissenting estimations, but the sheer conviction, which verges on and often crosses right into personal, dismissive and elsewise condescending territory, as though these are the only alternative options to your being the best, most infallible predictors in the world, is.. well it's rather ridiculous on its face. We are staring dully back at that face which you present, as you are hardly going above and beyond to get to the bottom of who is really a favorite.
I cannot help but notice the relevance of your insensitivity to the very notion of class, as a distinct lack of it is being paraded around in the guise of the very armchair expertise you espouse to know so much better than. The ratios of conviction to expertise which are present in these demonstrations make it abundantly clear that these are a people who are well acquainted with, and yet far from adapting to the experience of having to put their feet in their mouths. But hey, if you don't act like the supreme know it alls, you'll never have a chance at feeling affirmed as being such, on those occasions where you do happen to call it right.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
No i did not, but in a gsl style format they never did too well. Who cares about their results in weekend tournament with lesser competition when we talk about gsl?
On February 12 2016 07:23 Lumi wrote: Allow me to elaborate:
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe several in this thread under appreciate this sentiment. You're the type of 'objective' 'fans' whose ideas of favorites change on a per match night basis, or nearly so. I'm going to leap faithfully into a statistical probability here and point out that the odds are very likely that all of such fans/posters in this thread, as well as myself, have memories of sucking big time when it comes to fantasy league and pl betting There's no issue with dissenting estimations, but the sheer conviction, which verges on and often crosses right into personal, dismissive and elsewise condescending territory, as though these are the only alternative options to your being the best, most infallible predictors in the world, is.. well it's rather ridiculous on its face. We are staring dully back at that face which you present, as you are hardly going above and beyond to get to the bottom of who is really a favorite.
I cannot help but notice the relevance of your insensitivity to the very notion of class, as a distinct lack of it is being paraded around in the guise of the very armchair expertise you espouse to know so much better than. The ratios of conviction to expertise which are present in these demonstrations make it abundantly clear that these are a people who are well acquainted with, and yet far from adapting to the experience of having to put their feet in their mouths. But hey, if you don't act like the supreme know it alls, you'll never have a chance at feeling affirmed as being such, on those occasions where you do happen to call it right.
Very good read, i like it when people say nothing with nice sounding words
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
The presence and distinction of class, separating one from the class of their fellow competitors, regardless of their form, suggests the ever present capacity to demonstrate a level of form which others, lacking that same degree of class, cannot ever be relied upon to demonstrate, as there is no precedent for it in their career to date.
It is people who under appreciate this who are surprised when those of the highest class continue to maintain or return to the highest of form. Frankly, there is no more basic and narrow appraisal of a player than to appreciate simply, and only, their most recent or current form. For a people who account for only this data to condescend the appraisal of others, who, let's be honest, is just as likely to include this very same data, first and foremost - is to embarrass oneself by way of an obvious oversight and will to assume a lack of intelligence in their fellow community members and conversation holders.
Stork's group definitely could have been worse! I also agree that group B was a close second to a "group of death," though there certainly isn't a true one anyway.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
No i did not, but in a gsl style format they never did too well. Who cares about their results in weekend tournament with lesser competition when we talk about gsl?
I love when people bring up "lesser" competition. Look at Taeja's record vs the best players in the world. He's winning head to head against pretty much everyone. Both HerO and Taeja made semifinals of GSLs (Taeja 3 times iirc?). So yeah. They were pretty fucking good.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
No i did not, but in a gsl style format they never did too well. Who cares about their results in weekend tournament with lesser competition when we talk about gsl?
I love when people bring up "lesser" competition. Look at Taeja's record vs the best players in the world. He's winning head to head against pretty much everyone. Both HerO and Taeja made semifinals of GSLs (Taeja 3 times iirc?). So yeah. They were pretty fucking good.
Lesser competition because at weekend tournaments you only have a handful of really good players each time. Sure he did beat code s players to win these tournaments, but in code s you would need to do that every single round, not 1-2 times per tournament. That is the difference when people talk about "lesser competition" The format is obviously different as well, but that's another topic.
Three semi finals is surely pretty good though, i can give you that. Still, historically Taeja did't do too well in gsl style formats, especially when we compare it to his weekend success. There are multiple reasons why.
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
The presence and distinction of class, separating one from the class of their fellow competitors, regardless of their form, suggests the ever present capacity to demonstrate a level of form which others, lacking that same degree of class, cannot ever be relied upon to demonstrate, as there is no precedent for it in their career to date.
It is people who under appreciate this who are surprised when those of the highest class continue to maintain or return to the highest of form. Frankly, there is no more basic and narrow appraisal of a player than to appreciate simply, and only, their most recent or current form. For a people who account for only this data to condescend the appraisal of others, who, let's be honest, is just as likely to include this very same data, first and foremost - is to embarrass oneself by way of an obvious oversight and will to assume a lack of intelligence in their fellow community members and conversation holders.
You talk so much and say so little. You also miss the point completely, nobody here is denying "class", "class" is the reason i still believe JD could do well if he would join a kespa team or i still believe that Zest will win more korean titles. The point is that Taeja is historically not the championship contender for gsl style tournaments. I simply think the stronger competition in code s (in comparison to weekend tournaments) AND the format (preparation is important) are enough to say that Taeja is in this context probably not one of the best players. His success in Dreamhacks still matter somewhat, but not enough to value him higher imo. Feel free to disagree, Taeja fans always do.
HerO vs Taeja GSL finals, I'm calling it right now.
I totally agree. I mean, look at every single WCS regular season ever for Taeja. He consistently gets to to the high levels, but he also consistently is knocked out.
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
No i did not, but in a gsl style format they never did too well. Who cares about their results in weekend tournament with lesser competition when we talk about gsl?
I love when people bring up "lesser" competition. Look at Taeja's record vs the best players in the world. He's winning head to head against pretty much everyone. Both HerO and Taeja made semifinals of GSLs (Taeja 3 times iirc?). So yeah. They were pretty fucking good.
Lesser competition because at weekend tournaments you only have a handful of really good players each time. Sure he did beat code s players to win these tournaments, but in code s you would need to do that every single round, not 1-2 times per tournament. That is the difference when people talk about "lesser competition" The format is obviously different as well, but that's another topic.
Three semi finals is surely pretty good though, i can give you that. Still, historically Taeja did't do too well in gsl style formats, especially when we compare it to his weekend success. There are multiple reasons why.
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
The presence and distinction of class, separating one from the class of their fellow competitors, regardless of their form, suggests the ever present capacity to demonstrate a level of form which others, lacking that same degree of class, cannot ever be relied upon to demonstrate, as there is no precedent for it in their career to date.
It is people who under appreciate this who are surprised when those of the highest class continue to maintain or return to the highest of form. Frankly, there is no more basic and narrow appraisal of a player than to appreciate simply, and only, their most recent or current form. For a people who account for only this data to condescend the appraisal of others, who, let's be honest, is just as likely to include this very same data, first and foremost - is to embarrass oneself by way of an obvious oversight and will to assume a lack of intelligence in their fellow community members and conversation holders.
You talk so much and say so little. You also miss the point completely, nobody here is denying "class", "class" is the reason i still believe JD could do well if he would join a kespa team or i still believe that Zest will win more korean titles. The point is that Taeja is historically not the championship contender for gsl style tournaments. I simply think the stronger competition in code s (in comparison to weekend tournaments) AND the format (preparation is important) are enough to say that Taeja is in this context probably not one of the best players. His success in Dreamhacks still matter somewhat, but not enough to value him higher imo. Feel free to disagree, Taeja fans always do.
I am not a Taeja fan, can I disagree? :\ Tbh tho, lotv is still new so taeja might come with a build that no one can stop for months. Idk, but without life, sOs, maru, rain, stats etc, in code s, he really has a chance
On February 11 2016 22:02 opisska wrote: Yeah, surely, A and H are groups of death ... the death of common sense when it comes to evaluating TL players on TL.
Yeah, seriously, so much TL and emotional bias. Taeja and HerO haven't proven themselves yet in LotV and were in the wilderness in 2015. DRG is another sentimental favourite that isn't top-notch.
Group B and G are arguably deadlier. Dark and aLive are all proven players in LotV. herO and Dream haven't lost much of their momentum from HoTS 2015 (as opposed to, say, Inno). Losira and Leenock have been rather impressive too.
I said 'arguably', because I can still understand people voting objectively for Groups A and H. But such lopsided results? Meh... nothing but bias.
(Between the 4 groups, I would rate the deadliness in such order: G-B-H-A)
Not being bitter here, just that this reaffirms my belief that the opinions of TL writers and posters (expressed here and elsewhere) can lack objectivity. Then again, it's no different from any sports fan community. It's normal to be bias
Form is temporary, class is permanent. I believe that you under appreciate this sentiment.
Sry i forgot about the gsls Taeja and Hero won, you are right
You apparently also forgot about all the tournaments they did win
No i did not, but in a gsl style format they never did too well. Who cares about their results in weekend tournament with lesser competition when we talk about gsl?
I love when people bring up "lesser" competition. Look at Taeja's record vs the best players in the world. He's winning head to head against pretty much everyone. Both HerO and Taeja made semifinals of GSLs (Taeja 3 times iirc?). So yeah. They were pretty fucking good.
Lesser competition because at weekend tournaments you only have a handful of really good players each time. Sure he did beat code s players to win these tournaments, but in code s you would need to do that every single round, not 1-2 times per tournament. That is the difference when people talk about "lesser competition" The format is obviously different as well, but that's another topic.
Three semi finals is surely pretty good though, i can give you that. Still, historically Taeja did't do too well in gsl style formats, especially when we compare it to his weekend success. There are multiple reasons why.
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
The presence and distinction of class, separating one from the class of their fellow competitors, regardless of their form, suggests the ever present capacity to demonstrate a level of form which others, lacking that same degree of class, cannot ever be relied upon to demonstrate, as there is no precedent for it in their career to date.
It is people who under appreciate this who are surprised when those of the highest class continue to maintain or return to the highest of form. Frankly, there is no more basic and narrow appraisal of a player than to appreciate simply, and only, their most recent or current form. For a people who account for only this data to condescend the appraisal of others, who, let's be honest, is just as likely to include this very same data, first and foremost - is to embarrass oneself by way of an obvious oversight and will to assume a lack of intelligence in their fellow community members and conversation holders.
You talk so much and say so little.
I honestly cannot understand why you would begin a reply with this, and then put additional effort into communicating at my face, as though anyone, with any integrity, any life at all, would continue to give you the time of day. Does your love life not prompt you to examine your flagrantly unsavorable personality, unprovoked except by dissenting views over a video game? Must total strangers have to point this out to you? I'm afraid that you don't know how any of this works. I'm the fool for feeding what was an upfront lack of character all the time of day that I have. I promise, I won't be coming back to this thread to read whatever it is that you think and feel, which I could never begin to care about again
On February 12 2016 07:16 Lumi wrote: Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Can someone explain me why this line is so loved by everyone. Like, you can be a S Class player but if you are not in form then any average player can beat you. Thus I think Class won't make you win tournaments but Form will.
I might not be grasping the concept of Class.... ???
It's basically what Taeja fans say to try pretend he's still relevant.
On February 12 2016 08:15 swissman777 wrote: I am not a Taeja fan, can I disagree? :\ Tbh tho, lotv is still new so taeja might come with a build that no one can stop for months. Idk, but without life, sOs, maru, rain, stats etc, in code s, he really has a chance
You really underestimate how s-class kespa pros are good at dissecting builds and coming up with counters. :D
As far as Taeja's skill goes, a guy does not reach GSL semis 3 times by accident. He was pretty fucking good at his time. Yeah, compared to GSL / S2SL / OSL, he's won second rate tournaments, but at his peak he could've crushed anyone (and did most of the time). Also, I think these 2/3 day cup tournaments aren't really favoring Koreans since you can't really prepare for that.
On the topic of groups A & H being groups of death I think that's just a case of voting with your bias goggles on.
In group A, Zest is obviously a cut above all the rest. I think that Taeja actually has a really good chance to grab 2nd place here. I think that Journey is the weakest of the 3 by far and it'll basically come down to Taeja's TvZ to see if he qualifies or not.
In group H, soO and Dear are clear favorites. I don't think that even DRG himself knows how he qualified for the group stage as it certainly wasn't down to a display of skill and imo he'll be sent home right way. Don't know for HerO, haven't watched him play, but again - both soO and Dear are and have always been much better than he was. Tbh I wouldn't even want him to pull off an upset as those two have much better chances progressing deeper in to the tournament while imo HerO will just get knocked out next round.
Can we expect a preview article of the Group A players tonight before Code S kicks off? I've been out of the scene for quite awhile and I always enjoyed the official TL write-ups.
On February 17 2016 04:28 SmileZerg wrote: Can we expect a preview article of the Group A players tonight before Code S kicks off? I've been out of the scene for quite awhile and I always enjoyed the official TL write-ups.
I'd say so. They do previews for most everything. Plus Taejas playing, can't miss it if your own player is there!
On February 17 2016 04:28 SmileZerg wrote: Can we expect a preview article of the Group A players tonight before Code S kicks off? I've been out of the scene for quite awhile and I always enjoyed the official TL write-ups.
I'd say so. They do previews for most everything. Plus Taejas playing, can't miss it if your own player is there!
Even if none was planned DLO would write one himself because Zest is playing.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca5v0StUkAIuTLp.jpg)
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