EPT"Honorable" way of playing? - Page 4
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12389 Posts
On February 06 2016 21:36 Bojas wrote: Also, think of BityByBit if you were around during that era, did you like how he played? Did you respect him? Yes I did. Do you respect Sniper? | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
There was a time when i'd get cannon rushed, 1v1, 2v2, diamond, masters, whatever, several games in a row. I think recall my count going up to 10+ in a row one gaming session. Now? I would be caught dead, licking doorknobs for a fetish photobook, gluing pubes to my face, before dying to another cannon rush. I really appreciated that whole experience because i learned how to hold off a common cheese (as it was back in the day) and win . Here's an story/experience involving cheese. I had an acquaintance who was touting his own horn as an RTS player at the top level of 2v2 Warcraft 3, being rated highly on ladder on some occaisions. He decided he'd dip his toes in Starcraft and immediately contacted me since i was the Starcraft guy. He's new and he realizes it, so he asks for some pointers while he figures out some builds. He's going to play protoss, awesome. He's figuring out his own builds? "Hey dude, no need to worry about that stuff, tons of stuff have been figured out, let me teach you some timings." So i teach him 4-gate, while he's playing against insane computers or w/e he's into while practicing. I make sure he understands the build and we have a back-and-forth about cheese and macro builds and where they stand in the game. 4-gate happens to be a regular opening that all protoss players should understand and be able to execute/defend against at that point in time. He asks for some games for practice, saying that he's confident he can take some games against a veteran player. "You going to practice 4-gate and forge nexus like we talked about?" -"yeah ofc." We get in lobby, his map choices, and he cannon rushes me first game. Alright that was the first game, a bit cheeky but a cannon rush is a cannon rush and i scouted it because it happens a lot. I tell him it's a common strat, probably won't work against me in particular knowing my luck on ladder and the way i cut economy to scout. We talk about actually practicing the 4-gate, 3-gate, or any other build we went and practiced in single-player. "Sorry, yeah i'll play now, just thought it might work against you." Second game, he 2-gates. We go over the replay and talk about how it could have been better on the map and what he could have done to win with it. It's fine, he's trying to add cheese to his toolbox for ladder, i get it. Third game, cannon rushes me again and i'm getting a bit peeved, like jackychan.jpeg what happened to all the stuff we were practicing before bro sort of peeved. Can he not play straight up? I ask him this as polite as i can muster because at this point i feel like he's just trying to get a win against me so he can tell everyone, instead of "practicing" like he originally proposed. He apologizes, we move into another one of his map choices, a really odd one. Fourth game i scout around like normal and take a detour, what do i spot? 4 straight up gateways, proxied, producing zealots next to my base. It gets to the point where he tries making a cannon in my base during the micro exchanges. Holy shit. Seriously, is he for real? Who is this man? I mean fuck i guess it's 4-gate. He loses again and i tell him, "Yo this is a little rude, if you're just going to cheese me all day, i don't know what to say to you, let's forget this all happened and i hope you do alright in ladder." Top WC3 2v2 player for one season, right here. I had no words, because he was totally serious. Obviously he drops the game pretty quickly and we never talked about it again. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2311 Posts
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
I enjoy: - back and forth games - varying unit composititions throughout the game, deciding when and how to switch - making decisions between engaging/countering/waiting - utilizing different approaches to wear your opponent down (timing attacks/dropping etc.) - spell casting + spell dodging All of these aspects are neglected when your opponent goes for some stupid do or die-strategy that decides the game within 3 minutes. Where is the fun in that? You may have some cute micro battles but that's about it. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2311 Posts
On February 06 2016 22:03 MapleLeafSirup wrote: I think that cheesing also sucks a lot of fun out of this game. I enjoy: - back and forth games - varying unit composititions throughout the game, deciding when and how to switch - making decisions between engaging/countering/waiting - utilizing different approaches to wear your opponent down (timing attacks/dropping etc.) - spell casting + spell dodging All of these aspects are neglected when your opponent goes for some stupid do or die-strategy that decides the game within 3 minutes. Where is the fun in that? You may have some cute micro battles but that's about it. It's true. But it has nothing to do with honor concerns. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
On February 06 2016 22:06 Big J wrote: Cheese by definition is a play that only works when the opponent makes a mistake. Hence it is not a skillfull way to play. You realize that macro games rely on forcing your opponents to do mistakes? So outmultitasking someone is not a skillful way to play for example? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45275 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45275 Posts
On February 06 2016 22:06 Big J wrote: Cheese by definition is a play that only works when the opponent makes a mistake. Hence it is not a skillfull way to play. Many top athletes and players use strategies that include not just playing a solid game, but also capitalizing on an opponent's mistakes. They still have to capitalize effectively; it's still skillful. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
On February 06 2016 22:39 [PkF] Wire wrote: Cheese is actually quite a skill to pull off at the right time. The honourable way of playing is trying your best to win. Yeah this is a good way of life | ||
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CharAznable2
26 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
However this problem is also magnified in part due to a design flaw of SC2 which makes it so that certain strategies (in large part all-ins) are easier to execute than their defense. Thus loosing against a all-in can feel cheep and disheartening. Again it doesn't make cheeses any less honorable, but it its a design issue that should be addressed at some point. | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
On February 06 2016 15:28 RivaL1 wrote: Because people dont like losing to someone who know how to execute an easy cheesy buildorder by getting caught off guard, the longer the game goes, the more skill it requires, big army engagements, positioning, scouting, multitasking and transitioning. In that sense, people see macro games as the true test of skill between two players, vsing a cheese is just defending then just winning, or not being able to scout/react/army out of position slightly and you lose. What is "skill"? The closest thing we can get to a rigorious definition is the "ability to win games", and if cheese wins you games, aren't you more skilled than your opponent? I also used to rage about cheese etc, but now I just see it as part of the game. | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
Also if you were to play the same person more than once the cheeser is fucked since that's really the only thing a lot of them know. So, in a tournament setting where you are playing a best-of series being able to only cheese is garbage. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
I know Sniper is a Zerg but to be honest I don't recall his playstyle. I was mostly inactive at the end of 2012 to like mid 2014. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Like your Zealots aren't allowed to interfere with other Zealots fighting an opponent, as long as the fight is just a 1 on 1. | ||
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