• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:20
CET 11:20
KST 19:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE14Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2
StarCraft 2
General
Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 battle.net problems Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1784 users

SC2's shrinking talent pool: stuchiu on ESPN - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
545 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 28 Next All
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
January 24 2016 18:22 GMT
#441
On January 25 2016 03:16 207aicila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:

Until you can prove that having only a korean scene where no foreigner can enter because of its own structure is good for starcraft2, I will support the developpment of foreign (aka fucking rest of the world) esport.


Is the fact that previous DreamHack events had better viewership proof enough? If not, I'm willing to wait to make the same argument when numbers are low for other events as well.

Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Starcraft does not live in its own time. If any game can be as sustainable as cs:go or league in term of business opportunities and entertainment, you should always follow this path and developp your market as much as you can.


Oh I see, you're one of those esports zealots who thinks every game that doesn't have 50 million viewers (because League and CS:GO totally aren't exceptions) is dead or that somehow this is a feasible goal for SC2, a much more niche game in a niche and declining genre. Carry on then.

Actually no, feel free to teach more about this scene that I have followed for almost 6 years (and BW for much longer before that), it's quite amusing.


I did not follow broodwar, and I think this korean dominance nostalgia is why this community is so split. Esport has evolved and we should do everything we can to make it global. Starcraft2 is already a niche game in itself (rts genre) don't make it more niche (only korean ecosystem viable)
<;o)
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
January 24 2016 18:24 GMT
#442
On January 25 2016 03:21 HsDLTitich wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 02:59 Ppjack wrote:
On January 25 2016 02:44 Incognoto wrote:
On January 25 2016 01:48 DJHelium wrote:
On January 25 2016 01:37 Incognoto wrote:
To be fair I think that Nathanias hasn't read the article in its entirety and is assuming that it's a "dead gaem" article (which it is not! on the contrary it's an article which signals a pretty big problem in how Blizzard is stifling the Korean scene).

Starcraft is nate's livelihood so it makes sense that he wouldn't be interesting in giving it credence. I think that were I in his shoes (or any foreigner casters shoe's) I would do my best to not comment on the article. Perhaps be a bit more vocal about Blizzards (borderline racist) policies.


Probably shouldn't comment on what the article is about without reading it.


I read the article.

"The Korean scene is slowly dying out and the new WCS 2016 system does nothin to help it."

Who sets WCS 2016? Blizzard..

Honestly I just have popcorn here with me, seeing foreigners and those who cast them crying about how they're finally free from Korea's reign of terror. My respect for the foreign starcraft community descends a little more each day.

I'm just hoping that the mediatic shit-storm makes Blizzards re-evaluate their policy. The mixing of Korea and the foreign land was really good for both scenes: Koreans and foreigners. We were starting to get to the point where it was slowly become ONE big huge scene and it was awesome to see.

Now we have this big ugly divide.



Do you watch League ?
The only think that lacks in this WCS system is more than only one global event. If you want to watch koreans go watch korean leagues (and I do). But stop complaining about them being held out from every foreign tournament, everyone has its own and Blizzard tried.

The purpose is to have a sustainable foreign scene in the long term (aka not dead game), not tournaments organized for koreans beneficiting of the korean ladder/infrastructures/organisations and so on, to come and grab the money.


So a european organization held a tournament in Europe, why were americans allowed to come and grab our money? This makes no sense.


Because starcraft is split between foreigners / korea.
It Blizzard wanted to make it totally continentally locked, they could. That would just make no sense
<;o)
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
January 24 2016 18:25 GMT
#443
On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?

Well duh, it's about WCS, it was going to happen eventually.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-24 18:25:33
January 24 2016 18:25 GMT
#444
On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?

I think it occurs whenever this topic comes up, it's a heated issue and one that rarely people seem to be reasonable on.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
IceBerrY
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany220 Posts
January 24 2016 18:25 GMT
#445
On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?


It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
January 24 2016 18:26 GMT
#446
Here's the thing. Korea has been in decline before this change too. Flash, Bisu, and many other pros have noted that the crowds and fans were not out in force as they were for BW. SpoTV had to hire cute girls in the audience and have them cheer.

I'm not going to say that this change alone will destabilize Korea sc2 for 2016. The trend has been around for a while. But this change does not do anything to help and even makes the korea scene weaker.

I honestly don't like the decision taken, but with shrinking budgets and decreased willingness on tournament hosts (such as DH) to have sc2 tournaments, this can be seen as a last ditch effort to stabilize the sc2 scene (maybe even grow it). If it does not help, then we'll just go through the motion of an ever shrinking scene that was expected anyway.

I think the future of sc2 will lie with the hardcore and grassroot anyway.

That said, I love you Jealous.
rip passion
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
January 24 2016 18:29 GMT
#447
On January 25 2016 03:22 Ppjack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:16 207aicila wrote:
On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:

Until you can prove that having only a korean scene where no foreigner can enter because of its own structure is good for starcraft2, I will support the developpment of foreign (aka fucking rest of the world) esport.


Is the fact that previous DreamHack events had better viewership proof enough? If not, I'm willing to wait to make the same argument when numbers are low for other events as well.

On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Starcraft does not live in its own time. If any game can be as sustainable as cs:go or league in term of business opportunities and entertainment, you should always follow this path and developp your market as much as you can.


Oh I see, you're one of those esports zealots who thinks every game that doesn't have 50 million viewers (because League and CS:GO totally aren't exceptions) is dead or that somehow this is a feasible goal for SC2, a much more niche game in a niche and declining genre. Carry on then.

Actually no, feel free to teach more about this scene that I have followed for almost 6 years (and BW for much longer before that), it's quite amusing.


I did not follow broodwar, and I think this korean dominance nostalgia is why this community is so split. Esport has evolved and we should do everything we can to make it global. Starcraft2 is already a niche game in itself (rts genre) don't make it more niche (only korean ecosystem viable)


That's an interesting strawman, but no, BW was not the only esport I followed before SC2, and I don't necessarily have any kind of nostalgia for that particular aspect, although I will tell you it sure created a shit ton of hype when people like ElkY or Legionnaire or IdrA actually went and competed with the Koreans.

I've also followed esports like CS and Quake, whose scenes were fairly interesting in that it was only EU and NA but virtually impossible to play cross-continent at a high level due to latency. NA CS has a reputation of being quite inferior, whereas Quake was a lot more balanced usually.

Anyway that's all beside the point, I simply don't give a shit about the nationality of who I'm watching, I just want to see as many top level games as I can.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
January 24 2016 18:30 GMT
#448
On January 25 2016 03:25 IceBerrY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?


It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true.


You mean Reddit where the collective opinion on a topic changes on a dime and if you're not 100% in agreement you'll get downvoted to oblivion and flamed by drama-fiending shitposters? I'll take a real discussion board any day of the week, well, any except NeoGAF.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
IceBerrY
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany220 Posts
January 24 2016 18:38 GMT
#449
On January 25 2016 03:30 207aicila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:25 IceBerrY wrote:
On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?


It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true.


You mean Reddit where the collective opinion on a topic changes on a dime and if you're not 100% in agreement you'll get downvoted to oblivion and flamed by drama-fiending shitposters? I'll take a real discussion board any day of the week, well, any except NeoGAF.


Touché.

On a serious note, i didn´t really mean it, it´s just that people on TL are arguing heavier, then i can remember.
Arvendilin
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany1878 Posts
January 24 2016 18:41 GMT
#450
On January 25 2016 02:22 Elentos wrote:

Anyone from around the world can play in WCS and even Korean players can "buy in" so WCS is neither continental, nor national.

Sometimes, I feel like Twitter is a problem for humanity.

It is continental because all the NA players suck so much they don't even matter HEEEYOOOO
My heroes: Jangbi, Bisu, Stork and BeSt for BW, Rain, Zest and Stats for SC2! Need a better Signature tbh...
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
January 24 2016 18:48 GMT
#451
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

rip passion
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28514 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-24 18:56:43
January 24 2016 18:55 GMT
#452
On January 25 2016 03:48 Deathstar wrote:
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

https://twitter.com/RotterdaM08/status/691307446011367425

Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD
I Protoss winner, could it be?
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 24 2016 18:56 GMT
#453
Oh so we're using this thread as the drama thread.

Ya Apollo and Nate were way out of line, especially Nathanias who I've lost a lot of respect for over this.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Arvendilin
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany1878 Posts
January 24 2016 18:56 GMT
#454
Can I just say... I love Thorin, he actually defends stuchiu and then goes on an all-out aggressive war, thats pretty fun :D

It might be a bad sign but I aggree with him on a lot of things lol
My heroes: Jangbi, Bisu, Stork and BeSt for BW, Rain, Zest and Stats for SC2! Need a better Signature tbh...
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3174 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-24 19:08:47
January 24 2016 18:57 GMT
#455
On January 25 2016 03:48 Deathstar wrote:
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

https://twitter.com/RotterdaM08/status/691307446011367425


This is not racial issue but stupidity issue. We are not fighting over because Foreigners are having more tournaments to play and win, we support that. But we say that should not come at the cost of Koreans. But no, lets keep shit posting twitter, that will be better as a community figurehead.

The article targets an issue with the Korean scene and that WCS changes ignores that and focuses only on the foreigners. What our glorious community figures do? Insulting and author the call him "shitter" while admitting not reading the article. Then slowly start saying "It was not my intention"

"IT IS AN HONEST MISTAKE"...

Now the whole twitter evolved and everyone joining their own sides and calling each other out over a tweet... A FUCKING TWEET!

And the drama continues tonight on twitter...

EDIT: fixed a typo...
Arvendilin
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany1878 Posts
January 24 2016 18:58 GMT
#456
On January 25 2016 03:55 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:48 Deathstar wrote:
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

https://twitter.com/RotterdaM08/status/691307446011367425

Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD

Lets be honest, he's just salty the Netherlands didn't qualify for the EuroCup and fears that if it gets unlocked they'd never get into the worldcup looking at their level of play
My heroes: Jangbi, Bisu, Stork and BeSt for BW, Rain, Zest and Stats for SC2! Need a better Signature tbh...
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
January 24 2016 18:58 GMT
#457
On January 25 2016 03:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Oh so we're using this thread as the drama thread.

Ya Apollo and Nate were way out of line, especially Nathanias who I've lost a lot of respect for over this.


You go and put the results here now! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/502741-dreamhack-leipzig-day-3

Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 24 2016 19:00 GMT
#458
On January 25 2016 03:58 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Oh so we're using this thread as the drama thread.

Ya Apollo and Nate were way out of line, especially Nathanias who I've lost a lot of respect for over this.


You go and put the results here now! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/502741-dreamhack-leipzig-day-3


NO! I had it as a link to liquipedia and someone changed it without my consent. I'm not updating it out of principle now
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
January 24 2016 19:03 GMT
#459
On January 25 2016 03:57 WrathSCII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:48 Deathstar wrote:
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

https://twitter.com/RotterdaM08/status/691307446011367425


This is not racial issue but stupidity issue. We are not fighting over because Foreigners are having more tournaments to play and win, we support that. But we say that should not come at the cost of Koreans. But no, lets keep shit posting twitter, that will be better as a community figurehead.

The article targets an issue with the Korean scene and that WCS changes ignores that and focuses only on the foreigners. What our glorious community figures do? Insulting and author and call him "shitter" while admitting not reading the article. Then slowly start saying "It was not my intention"

"IT IS AN HONEST MISTAKE"...

Now the whole twitter evolved and everyone joining their own sides and calling each other out over a tweet... A FUCKING TWEET!

And the drama continues tonight on twitter...




These are the kind of people supposedly representing our scene...
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28514 Posts
January 24 2016 19:04 GMT
#460
On January 25 2016 03:58 Arvendilin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2016 03:55 Penev wrote:
On January 25 2016 03:48 Deathstar wrote:
Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.

https://twitter.com/RotterdaM08/status/691307446011367425

Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD

Lets be honest, he's just salty the Netherlands didn't qualify for the EuroCup and fears that if it gets unlocked they'd never get into the worldcup looking at their level of play

I'm one of them

D':

But you're probably right
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 4: Group C
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #122
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 480
SortOf 223
Rex 68
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 87248
Horang2 23798
Britney 22777
Jaedong 3113
Mong 338
ToSsGirL 128
Sharp 88
Shine 77
Last 50
NaDa 29
Dota 2
XaKoH 483
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox526
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor211
MindelVK16
Other Games
B2W.Neo581
singsing259
Fuzer 160
crisheroes96
Mew2King37
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10387
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4927
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings47
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH274
• LUISG 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1h 40m
Solar vs Clem
Cure vs Bunny
herO vs MaxPax
OSC
2h 10m
BSL
9h 40m
Replay Cast
13h 40m
Replay Cast
22h 40m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
OSC
1d 13h
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.