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On January 25 2016 03:16 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Until you can prove that having only a korean scene where no foreigner can enter because of its own structure is good for starcraft2, I will support the developpment of foreign (aka fucking rest of the world) esport.
Is the fact that previous DreamHack events had better viewership proof enough? If not, I'm willing to wait to make the same argument when numbers are low for other events as well. Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Starcraft does not live in its own time. If any game can be as sustainable as cs:go or league in term of business opportunities and entertainment, you should always follow this path and developp your market as much as you can.
Oh I see, you're one of those esports zealots who thinks every game that doesn't have 50 million viewers (because League and CS:GO totally aren't exceptions) is dead or that somehow this is a feasible goal for SC2, a much more niche game in a niche and declining genre. Carry on then. Actually no, feel free to teach more about this scene that I have followed for almost 6 years (and BW for much longer before that), it's quite amusing. 
I did not follow broodwar, and I think this korean dominance nostalgia is why this community is so split. Esport has evolved and we should do everything we can to make it global. Starcraft2 is already a niche game in itself (rts genre) don't make it more niche (only korean ecosystem viable)
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On January 25 2016 03:21 HsDLTitich wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 02:59 Ppjack wrote:On January 25 2016 02:44 Incognoto wrote:On January 25 2016 01:48 DJHelium wrote:On January 25 2016 01:37 Incognoto wrote:
To be fair I think that Nathanias hasn't read the article in its entirety and is assuming that it's a "dead gaem" article (which it is not! on the contrary it's an article which signals a pretty big problem in how Blizzard is stifling the Korean scene).
Starcraft is nate's livelihood so it makes sense that he wouldn't be interesting in giving it credence. I think that were I in his shoes (or any foreigner casters shoe's) I would do my best to not comment on the article. Perhaps be a bit more vocal about Blizzards (borderline racist) policies. Probably shouldn't comment on what the article is about without reading it. I read the article. "The Korean scene is slowly dying out and the new WCS 2016 system does nothin to help it." Who sets WCS 2016? Blizzard.. Honestly I just have popcorn here with me, seeing foreigners and those who cast them crying about how they're finally free from Korea's reign of terror. My respect for the foreign starcraft community descends a little more each day. I'm just hoping that the mediatic shit-storm makes Blizzards re-evaluate their policy. The mixing of Korea and the foreign land was really good for both scenes: Koreans and foreigners. We were starting to get to the point where it was slowly become ONE big huge scene and it was awesome to see. Now we have this big ugly divide. Do you watch League ? The only think that lacks in this WCS system is more than only one global event. If you want to watch koreans go watch korean leagues (and I do). But stop complaining about them being held out from every foreign tournament, everyone has its own and Blizzard tried. The purpose is to have a sustainable foreign scene in the long term (aka not dead game), not tournaments organized for koreans beneficiting of the korean ladder/infrastructures/organisations and so on, to come and grab the money. So a european organization held a tournament in Europe, why were americans allowed to come and grab our money? This makes no sense.
Because starcraft is split between foreigners / korea.
It Blizzard wanted to make it totally continentally locked, they could. That would just make no sense
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On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?
Well duh, it's about WCS, it was going to happen eventually.
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On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?
I think it occurs whenever this topic comes up, it's a heated issue and one that rarely people seem to be reasonable on.
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On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter?
It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true.
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Here's the thing. Korea has been in decline before this change too. Flash, Bisu, and many other pros have noted that the crowds and fans were not out in force as they were for BW. SpoTV had to hire cute girls in the audience and have them cheer.
I'm not going to say that this change alone will destabilize Korea sc2 for 2016. The trend has been around for a while. But this change does not do anything to help and even makes the korea scene weaker.
I honestly don't like the decision taken, but with shrinking budgets and decreased willingness on tournament hosts (such as DH) to have sc2 tournaments, this can be seen as a last ditch effort to stabilize the sc2 scene (maybe even grow it). If it does not help, then we'll just go through the motion of an ever shrinking scene that was expected anyway.
I think the future of sc2 will lie with the hardcore and grassroot anyway.
That said, I love you Jealous.
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On January 25 2016 03:22 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:16 207aicila wrote:On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Until you can prove that having only a korean scene where no foreigner can enter because of its own structure is good for starcraft2, I will support the developpment of foreign (aka fucking rest of the world) esport.
Is the fact that previous DreamHack events had better viewership proof enough? If not, I'm willing to wait to make the same argument when numbers are low for other events as well. On January 25 2016 03:13 Ppjack wrote:
Starcraft does not live in its own time. If any game can be as sustainable as cs:go or league in term of business opportunities and entertainment, you should always follow this path and developp your market as much as you can.
Oh I see, you're one of those esports zealots who thinks every game that doesn't have 50 million viewers (because League and CS:GO totally aren't exceptions) is dead or that somehow this is a feasible goal for SC2, a much more niche game in a niche and declining genre. Carry on then. Actually no, feel free to teach more about this scene that I have followed for almost 6 years (and BW for much longer before that), it's quite amusing. I did not follow broodwar, and I think this korean dominance nostalgia is why this community is so split. Esport has evolved and we should do everything we can to make it global. Starcraft2 is already a niche game in itself (rts genre) don't make it more niche (only korean ecosystem viable)
That's an interesting strawman, but no, BW was not the only esport I followed before SC2, and I don't necessarily have any kind of nostalgia for that particular aspect, although I will tell you it sure created a shit ton of hype when people like ElkY or Legionnaire or IdrA actually went and competed with the Koreans.
I've also followed esports like CS and Quake, whose scenes were fairly interesting in that it was only EU and NA but virtually impossible to play cross-continent at a high level due to latency. NA CS has a reputation of being quite inferior, whereas Quake was a lot more balanced usually.
Anyway that's all beside the point, I simply don't give a shit about the nationality of who I'm watching, I just want to see as many top level games as I can.
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On January 25 2016 03:25 IceBerrY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter? It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true.
You mean Reddit where the collective opinion on a topic changes on a dime and if you're not 100% in agreement you'll get downvoted to oblivion and flamed by drama-fiending shitposters? I'll take a real discussion board any day of the week, well, any except NeoGAF. 
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On January 25 2016 03:30 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:25 IceBerrY wrote:On January 25 2016 03:19 WrathSCII wrote:
Is it me or the shitposting slowly started to crawl here on this thread from twitter? It is a long time trend on TL. If i want to see a discussion, i am prefering reddit. Sad but true. You mean Reddit where the collective opinion on a topic changes on a dime and if you're not 100% in agreement you'll get downvoted to oblivion and flamed by drama-fiending shitposters? I'll take a real discussion board any day of the week, well, any except NeoGAF.
Touché.
On a serious note, i didn´t really mean it, it´s just that people on TL are arguing heavier, then i can remember.
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On January 25 2016 02:22 Elentos wrote:
Anyone from around the world can play in WCS and even Korean players can "buy in" so WCS is neither continental, nor national.
Sometimes, I feel like Twitter is a problem for humanity.
It is continental because all the NA players suck so much they don't even matter HEEEYOOOO
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Yeah posts like this make me think this is a racial issue. "Joking" or not, it misrepresents what the World Cup is and what WCS is. And deliberately so IMO.
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Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD
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Oh so we're using this thread as the drama thread.
Ya Apollo and Nate were way out of line, especially Nathanias who I've lost a lot of respect for over this.
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Can I just say... I love Thorin, he actually defends stuchiu and then goes on an all-out aggressive war, thats pretty fun :D
It might be a bad sign but I aggree with him on a lot of things lol
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This is not racial issue but stupidity issue. We are not fighting over because Foreigners are having more tournaments to play and win, we support that. But we say that should not come at the cost of Koreans. But no, lets keep shit posting twitter, that will be better as a community figurehead.
The article targets an issue with the Korean scene and that WCS changes ignores that and focuses only on the foreigners. What our glorious community figures do? Insulting and author the call him "shitter" while admitting not reading the article. Then slowly start saying "It was not my intention"
"IT IS AN HONEST MISTAKE"...
Now the whole twitter evolved and everyone joining their own sides and calling each other out over a tweet... A FUCKING TWEET!
And the drama continues tonight on twitter...
EDIT: fixed a typo...
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On January 25 2016 03:55 Penev wrote:Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD
Lets be honest, he's just salty the Netherlands didn't qualify for the EuroCup and fears that if it gets unlocked they'd never get into the worldcup looking at their level of play 
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NO! I had it as a link to liquipedia and someone changed it without my consent. I'm not updating it out of principle now
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On January 25 2016 03:57 WrathSCII wrote:This is not racial issue but stupidity issue. We are not fighting over because Foreigners are having more tournaments to play and win, we support that. But we say that should not come at the cost of Koreans. But no, lets keep shit posting twitter, that will be better as a community figurehead. The article targets an issue with the Korean scene and that WCS changes ignores that and focuses only on the foreigners. What our glorious community figures do? Insulting and author and call him "shitter" while admitting not reading the article. Then slowly start saying "It was not my intention" "IT IS AN HONEST MISTAKE"... Now the whole twitter evolved and everyone joining their own sides and calling each other out over a tweet... A FUCKING TWEET! And the drama continues tonight on twitter...
These are the kind of people supposedly representing our scene...
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On January 25 2016 03:58 Arvendilin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 03:55 Penev wrote:Nah, he just means to say Spain and Brazil are the best nations in football so should be able to send more teams and the continent of Asia sucks so should be excluded (to make room for the extra teams the best are sending), sarcastically of course. But yeah, these analogies aren't helping much xD Lets be honest, he's just salty the Netherlands didn't qualify for the EuroCup and fears that if it gets unlocked they'd never get into the worldcup looking at their level of play
I'm one of them
D':
But you're probably right
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EPT
