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The Greatest Foreigners of All Time Part 2 - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
241 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 22:50:52
January 03 2016 22:50 GMT
#41
On January 04 2016 07:40 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 07:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:18 Foki wrote:
So if the Top 5 are Scarlett, HuK, Snute, Naniwa and Stephano... Where is TLO? I think he definitely deserves a place in the top 15 foreigners...


Why?

Well, TLO has seeming consistency going for him. He made every season of WCS Premier as one of very few players. And at his best he could take series of some incredible players (like when he beat Bomber at IEM Sao Paolo). And he is Nostradario.

But in the end his peaks were never high enough, and his consistency is dubious because his WCS results were in a continuous up and down. So outside of top 15 is fine I think.


7 top8
3 top5
1 top4
1 top3
1 Major Tournament title in early WoL
2 GSL participations (first two GSLs)
more price money than Idra, Jinro, Bunny and probably others on the list
9 consecutive WCS Premier seasons, i.e. all of them. Don't know how you can say his WCS results were up and down, because then literally everyone else's were too because they didn't even qualify everytime.

He is probably top3 or top5 when it comes to the number of deep Premier runs, which doesn't even count the consistency with which he qualified and placed top12 or top16, the only thing he doesn't have is a finals/championship.
Ronski
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland266 Posts
January 03 2016 22:52 GMT
#42
#1: LiguidHaypro
I am a tank. I am covered head to toe in solid plate mail. I carry a block of metal the size of a 4 door sedan to hide behind. If you see me running - you should too.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 22:56:49
January 03 2016 22:55 GMT
#43
On January 04 2016 07:50 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 07:40 Elentos wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:18 Foki wrote:
So if the Top 5 are Scarlett, HuK, Snute, Naniwa and Stephano... Where is TLO? I think he definitely deserves a place in the top 15 foreigners...


Why?

Well, TLO has seeming consistency going for him. He made every season of WCS Premier as one of very few players. And at his best he could take series of some incredible players (like when he beat Bomber at IEM Sao Paolo). And he is Nostradario.

But in the end his peaks were never high enough, and his consistency is dubious because his WCS results were in a continuous up and down. So outside of top 15 is fine I think.


7 top8
3 top5
1 top4
1 top3
1 Major Tournament title in early WoL
2 GSL participations (first two GSLs)
more price money than Idra, Jinro, Bunny and probably others on the list
9 consecutive WCS Premier seasons, i.e. all of them. Don't know how you can say his WCS results were up and down, because then literally everyone else's were too because they didn't even qualify everytime.

He is probably top3 or top5 when it comes to the number of deep Premier runs, which doesn't even count the consistency with which he qualified and placed top12 or top16, the only thing he doesn't have is a finals/championship.

What I meant by the WCS remark is that he was having drastic shifts in form a lot. Sometimes top 8, other times RO32. This year he had that group where he went from getting completely owned on 1 day to crushing iaguz in the rematch on the next. Like, it looks consistent from the outside because he got into every season but internally it's much more fluctuating.

I love TLO but I can see how there wouldn't be space on this list for him despite all he did in his career. Especially since he never won anything that big.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
January 03 2016 22:59 GMT
#44
I don't think you should count earnings at all really, that would just minimalize the impact of early accomplishments so much. For example, Huk got fucking 5k for WINNING an MLG in which he defeated Thestc, MKP, MC etc, whereas today that is what you would get for getting into premier league
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12861 Posts
January 03 2016 22:59 GMT
#45
IdrA higher than both VortiX and Nerchio? Or even higher than Jinro?
He had big mouth about imbalances but during early GSL worse results than Jinro and he beat a few koreans when zerg was utterly strong, meh.
WriterMaru
Talaris
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland753 Posts
January 03 2016 23:04 GMT
#46
On January 04 2016 07:41 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Suprise top5:

5 - @liquidret
4 - Select
3 - Xigua
2 - Bly
1 - Firecake


no no no no, just no.

No surprise list without WhiteRa !
-= Jaedong // HerO // HasuObs // Unholy Alliance =-
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 23:13:41
January 03 2016 23:12 GMT
#47
On January 04 2016 07:59 Aocowns wrote:
I don't think you should count earnings at all really, that would just minimalize the impact of early accomplishments so much. For example, Huk got fucking 5k for WINNING an MLG in which he defeated Thestc, MKP, MC etc, whereas today that is what you would get for getting into premier league

I don't believe that earnings are actually considered here.

Edit:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/482944-the-process-of-creating-the-top-15-greatest-list

The first step was to take out criteria that I considered irrelevant in the making of the lists. Those criteria were:
Money won
Online Tournaments/Qualifiers
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 23:22:28
January 03 2016 23:19 GMT
#48
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
January 03 2016 23:20 GMT
#49
On January 04 2016 08:19 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +

Are you trying to say that in the early seasons of GSL, terran was not favoured vs zerg?


Do you understand what "foreign" mean?

just failed to see how that was relevant whatsoever in the context of games in korea
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 23:22:16
January 03 2016 23:21 GMT
#50
On January 04 2016 08:20 Aocowns wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 08:19 Hider wrote:

Are you trying to say that in the early seasons of GSL, terran was not favoured vs zerg?


Do you understand what "foreign" mean?

just failed to see how that was relevant whatsoever in the context of games in korea


Okay, reread it again, slightly misread it, my bad.
HugoBallzak
Profile Joined November 2015
700 Posts
January 03 2016 23:22 GMT
#51
Has foreigner terran EVER been favored in anything? List of foreigner terrans who won anything notable:

thorzain
bunny
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 03 2016 23:23 GMT
#52
On January 04 2016 08:22 HugoBallzak wrote:
Has foreigner terran EVER been favored in anything? List of foreigner terrans who won anything notable:

thorzain
bunny

Marinelord, as of like an hour ago
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 23:25:41
January 03 2016 23:25 GMT
#53
On January 04 2016 07:50 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 07:40 Elentos wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:18 Foki wrote:
So if the Top 5 are Scarlett, HuK, Snute, Naniwa and Stephano... Where is TLO? I think he definitely deserves a place in the top 15 foreigners...


Why?

Well, TLO has seeming consistency going for him. He made every season of WCS Premier as one of very few players. And at his best he could take series of some incredible players (like when he beat Bomber at IEM Sao Paolo). And he is Nostradario.

But in the end his peaks were never high enough, and his consistency is dubious because his WCS results were in a continuous up and down. So outside of top 15 is fine I think.


7 top8
3 top5
1 top4
1 top3
1 Major Tournament title in early WoL
2 GSL participations (first two GSLs)
more price money than Idra, Jinro, Bunny and probably others on the list
9 consecutive WCS Premier seasons, i.e. all of them. Don't know how you can say his WCS results were up and down, because then literally everyone else's were too because they didn't even qualify everytime.

He is probably top3 or top5 when it comes to the number of deep Premier runs, which doesn't even count the consistency with which he qualified and placed top12 or top16, the only thing he doesn't have is a finals/championship.


I guess the problem for TLO is probably that he just never was a top 3-5 top foreigner at any point in time (besides maybe early WOL).
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
January 03 2016 23:27 GMT
#54
On January 04 2016 08:22 HugoBallzak wrote:
Has foreigner terran EVER been favored in anything? List of foreigner terrans who won anything notable:

thorzain
bunny


I mean that was always my initial point; that even though Korean terrans continued to perform very well in 2011, foreign terrans didn't, and thus I wouldn't give extra credit to a Zerg or protoss relative to a terran player.

But yeh, when we are talking about Jinro's 2010/very early 2011 results, I think its fair to discredit his results sligthly in favor of racial imbalance.
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
January 03 2016 23:28 GMT
#55
On January 04 2016 08:22 HugoBallzak wrote:
Has foreigner terran EVER been favored in anything? List of foreigner terrans who won anything notable:

thorzain
bunny

Princess-ilovealtaria-special-light-shofu-NoNge-CuteAngel-Memory-Kitty-Terran-Major-WinDy-Britney-FUCKING-JUANITO-LOPEZ

One day, mark my words. He will regain the hype he had, and he will win something for the glory of Mexico and Copa América
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-03 23:49:59
January 03 2016 23:48 GMT
#56
On January 04 2016 06:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 05:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So top 5 from here has to be

5. Scarlett
4. Snute
3. Huk
2. Naniwa
1. Stephano


Agreed, unless they put Snute ahead of HuK... but HuK should still definitely be ahead of Scarlett, and I can't think of anyone else besides these 5 who are deserving of the Top 5.

huk above snute is legit, i agree with SGTK

also stuchiuu said it was the hardest part for him and i understand, since chosing between mana and nerchio has been tough i suppose
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Xoronius
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany6362 Posts
January 04 2016 00:14 GMT
#57
On January 04 2016 07:37 t3tsubo wrote:
Sepaking fo the Marinelord 5-0, I'm sad QXC won't make the list even though the pull off the first foreigner vs korea sc2 all kill.

I think that achievement is still vastly overrated. It should be noted for what it is: A foreigner terran beating Mvp in bo1 and not losing a few additional games to weak opponents. But the rest of the series (BBi, dreamerTT and horror) could have been the early rounds of a Go4. If IM would have taken that match seriously and send their whole real team out (Nestea, Losira, Yonghwa, YoDa and korean Happy in addition to Mvp), that match would have ended very differently and everybody knew that back then.

Don't get me wrong, a foreigner terran defeating Mvp is something, that should be noted, especially in 2011, so in combination with the "easy" wins I'd rate it about as high as GoOdy 2-0 MMA or Sjow 2-1 Life(maybe a slight bit higher) and probably higher than some of the TSL 3 upsets (GoOdy 2-1 Nestea, Adelscott 2-0 Mvp) . But for example DIMAGA ending Nesteas undefeated ZvZ-streak was a much bigger thing back then. Also keep in mind that in the same season of GSTL ThorZaIN and Fenix both did get tripple kills against partially more established players. (Just naming upsets here, ofc. a few other results were more impressive, but also more expected).
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12861 Posts
January 04 2016 00:16 GMT
#58
On January 04 2016 09:14 Xoronius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 07:37 t3tsubo wrote:
Sepaking fo the Marinelord 5-0, I'm sad QXC won't make the list even though the pull off the first foreigner vs korea sc2 all kill.

I think that achievement is still vastly overrated. It should be noted for what it is: A foreigner terran beating Mvp in bo1 and not losing a few additional games to weak opponents. But the rest of the series (BBi, dreamerTT and horror) could have been the early rounds of a Go4. If IM would have taken that match seriously and send their whole real team out (Nestea, Losira, Yonghwa, YoDa and korean Happy in addition to Mvp), that match would have ended very differently and everybody knew that back then.

Don't get me wrong, a foreigner terran defeating Mvp is something, that should be noted, especially in 2011, so in combination with the "easy" wins I'd rate it about as high as GoOdy 2-0 MMA or Sjow 2-1 Life(maybe a slight bit higher) and probably higher than some of the TSL 3 upsets (GoOdy 2-1 Nestea, Adelscott 2-0 Mvp) . But for example DIMAGA ending Nesteas undefeated ZvZ-streak was a much bigger thing back then. Also keep in mind that in the same season of GSTL ThorZaIN and Fenix both did get tripple kills against partially more established players. (Just naming upsets here, ofc. a few other results were more impressive, but also more expected).

Adel Mvp was incredibly funny (Mvp got his reaper surrounded by probes and stuff like that) because koreans weren't used at all to lag back then.
It's not even an achievement.
WriterMaru
ensign_lee
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1178 Posts
January 04 2016 00:26 GMT
#59
Cool write up. I would have swapped Idra and Nerchio, but other than that, cool!
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-04 00:29:23
January 04 2016 00:28 GMT
#60
On January 04 2016 09:16 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 09:14 Xoronius wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:37 t3tsubo wrote:
Sepaking fo the Marinelord 5-0, I'm sad QXC won't make the list even though the pull off the first foreigner vs korea sc2 all kill.

I think that achievement is still vastly overrated. It should be noted for what it is: A foreigner terran beating Mvp in bo1 and not losing a few additional games to weak opponents. But the rest of the series (BBi, dreamerTT and horror) could have been the early rounds of a Go4. If IM would have taken that match seriously and send their whole real team out (Nestea, Losira, Yonghwa, YoDa and korean Happy in addition to Mvp), that match would have ended very differently and everybody knew that back then.

Don't get me wrong, a foreigner terran defeating Mvp is something, that should be noted, especially in 2011, so in combination with the "easy" wins I'd rate it about as high as GoOdy 2-0 MMA or Sjow 2-1 Life(maybe a slight bit higher) and probably higher than some of the TSL 3 upsets (GoOdy 2-1 Nestea, Adelscott 2-0 Mvp) . But for example DIMAGA ending Nesteas undefeated ZvZ-streak was a much bigger thing back then. Also keep in mind that in the same season of GSTL ThorZaIN and Fenix both did get tripple kills against partially more established players. (Just naming upsets here, ofc. a few other results were more impressive, but also more expected).

Adel Mvp was incredibly funny (Mvp got his reaper surrounded by probes and stuff like that) because koreans weren't used at all to lag back then.
It's not even an achievement.


MVP's TvP was also really bad for a long period as well. I think he first got it fixed until he beat Naniwa.
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