On July 01 2015 00:51 juvenal wrote:
[quote]
fine, I'll ask this then: what's the default build orders in bw ZvT for both sides? What happens in the late game and why?

By default your question implies SC2 has more strategic depth than BW.

care to elaborate? I just want to understand how well do you understand BW if at all.

It's amusing that you think you are the authority to quantifiy his BW knowledge.
edit: Oh you come from the BW forums, who would have thought!

what I asked him is a simple test to reveal if he knows the Most Basic things about bw, because I suspect he doesn't. His actual bw knowledge - I don't care.
edit: nice to see such friendly attitude from a sc2-forumer.

You realize that you come into this thread being condescending as fuck?
If you have something to say about the topic, just do so.
Sry that people don't like to answer your arbitrary questions about maximum rank or build orders.
So yes, i am kinda rude cause your reaction is the reaction i would have expected from people out of the BW forum.

isn't it so condescending of you to judge bw-forum ♥ Ok I'll explain myself if you're so sensitive: the guy made a statement implying he knows the game well. I simply asked him his rank, I see no reason to be pissed at such a question. Then he just tried to talk his way out of the situation so I asked an even more harmless question. Then came you, a social justice warrior.

guys come on, this isn't the place for this, at least take it to PMs, don't make it personal here, please.

It got the place as soon as the typical BW guys came in here and started to post while not responding to the actual topic at all. Which obviously isn't really new, that's just how BW people on this site rule.
It's not personal, it's a general forum thing

I answered on the topic earlier, now calm the hell down with your "bw people" shit. All I want is to check if the dude knew the game at all. You got offended thinking that I myself know all about it and want to judge someone else's ability, which I never meant.

Juvenal he doesnt know the game at all, that is why he diverted the controversy about it, about The Red_Viper he always says that about BW forumers, so just ignore him. case closed, and you are right.

Ovid

United Kingdom948 Posts

June 30 2015 16:41 GMT

#264

Well rekrul won this.

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

June 30 2015 16:42 GMT

#265

Faptain, who is girl #1?

Necro)Phagist(

Canada6518 Posts

June 30 2015 16:43 GMT

#266

Yuppp GG no Re Rekrul Champion.

Fucking Brilliant.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

June 30 2015 16:43 GMT

#267

On July 01 2015 01:42 Big J wrote:
Faptain, who is girl #1?

someone's mom (yes we are at that lvl already)

Ej_

47656 Posts

June 30 2015 16:49 GMT

#268

Rekrul delivers.

Luolis

Finland7087 Posts

June 30 2015 16:51 GMT

#269

On July 01 2015 01:38 Rekrul wrote:
in other news

Thats autistic

AnotherOldSkoolPoser

Korea (South)1 Post

June 30 2015 16:52 GMT

#270

Well I was looking forward to the hilarious chess comparisons and unwarranted levels of elitism once I read the Artosis post, and I have not been disappointed. The only thing more hilarious was how much foreign players sucked in bw as a lot of the Europeans were playing better games like CS and Wc3 and it was mostly left to American players to try and cut it, and we all know how that works out in gaming. Shit, instead of sending out people like Idra to compete with the Koreans maybe we could have gone with some fast button mashers/pro-typists without autism. They probably would have gotten further in tournaments. That's for sure.

User was banned for this post.

Yorbon

Netherlands4272 Posts

June 30 2015 16:52 GMT

#271

hahaha, rekrul +1

Cele

Germany4016 Posts

June 30 2015 16:57 GMT

#272

poor Artosis, did build his whole career on Sc2 and now has to struggle hard to yet again convince people "it's the best game ever". Well, i hope you earned enough money man, so you can stop this little campaign of yours.

Sjokola

Netherlands800 Posts

June 30 2015 16:59 GMT

#273

I haven't read all the pages but here's what I think people miss in the first few.

Just because Artosis says sc2 is more strategic than bw doesn't mean he's saying micro and mechanics aren't very important in sc2 or that macro isn't important in bw. He even says it when he's making the point.

GoShox

United States1835 Posts

June 30 2015 17:00 GMT

#274

On July 01 2015 01:38 Rekrul wrote:
in other news

ROFL

BernabusStarcraft2

Scotland112 Posts

June 30 2015 17:02 GMT

#275

its True. BW is the game of the past.

SC2 is a better modern day RTS.

juvenal

2448 Posts

June 30 2015 17:03 GMT

#276

On July 01 2015 01:57 Cele wrote:
poor Artosis, did build his whole career on Sc2 and now has to struggle hard to yet again convince people "it's the best game ever". Well, i hope you earned enough money man, so you can stop this little campaign of yours.

I don't think Artosis did anything wrong, he just expressed his opinion, there's always place for opinions. This thread is what provoked a holywar. Btw day9 has said similar things about strategic aspects of bw and sc2 and he's obviously more credible a source of bw wisdom. Much of the discussion is due to the definitions conflict: different people perceive "strategy" differently (duh) but since no one points that out loud enough they start arguing.

Musicus

Germany23570 Posts

June 30 2015 17:04 GMT

#277

Oh my, totally worth the wait :D.

JieXian

Malaysia4677 Posts

June 30 2015 17:05 GMT

#278

hahahahahahahahahaha Rekrul owns the thread :D

On July 01 2015 01:02 ArvickHero wrote:
I mean, I'm not surprised I guess. He was pretty notorious for thinking there were only 1-2 "real" strategies (aka standard cookie-cutter macro builds) in BW, making him painfully easy to predict and beat. Anything else was "dirty cheese" and "dumb luck", not real strategy at all.

Apparently hard counter units are the definition of strategy here (ignoring that BW does have its own set of hard counter relationships ..), not actual build variety itself. Learned something new I guess.

ah I thought it was just idra, didn't know that

On July 01 2015 00:07 DinoMight wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 01 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:

On June 30 2015 23:58 Bannt wrote:
I might be off-base with this but it's something to think about.

Perhaps broodwar had the illusion of such great balance and strategic options precisely because of the difficulty of the mechanics. Since mechanics counted so much all races would stay fairly close as long as the relevant pros were of comparable level.

Also the game still evolving after 10 years is an indication as well. The mechanics were difficult so it took pros a very very long time to slowly increase asymptotically towards an (unreachable?) cap. As they get better and better more options open up changing the meta...but only at the rate allowed by increased mechanical skill.

Sorry if this has been posted and I"m making no claims as to which game is better. Just a possible way to view things.

You are off base but it's okay because you're not coming from a place of arrogance.

BW was imba as hell. The races were balanced by the maps. BW can be easily made imba towards a desired matchup by crafting maps to in a way that achieves that.

On July 01 2015 00:00 DinoMight wrote:

This times a billion. Seriously, I don't know how people don't see this.

Because it's completely wrong. Seriously I don't know why people who don't know the game are making assumptions.

Lol. And who are you to tell me I know nothing about the game? People like you make forums an awful place. I played SC1 on release day buddy.

Playing the game on day1 is not an indication of skill level. And since you used a bad indication of skill level we know where you stand

"SC2 can also be balanced by maps... you guys remember how much fun TvP was on heavy rain?"

Completely irrelevant. I was telling Bannt very nicely that BW was balanced by maps , not by mechanics (in fact mechanics makes BW imba at lower levels) Nobody was talking about SC2 in that list of replies but yet you had to bring that up.

On July 01 2015 02:03 juvenal wrote:

Show nested quote +

And we are expressing our opinions about his opinion too