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On March 25 2015 05:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating This argument is ridiculous. "it is too dumb to be cheating" So if it looks like it could be fixed we now use this as proof that it wasn't fixed? How exactly does this logic work?
It's definitely some form of logic haha, can these organisers of this be stupid enough to over bet that much to cause Pinnacle insta-suspicion? Can MKP be that stupid to throw so obviously?
Maybe someone is trying to kill off SC2 in KR /tinfoilhat
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On March 25 2015 05:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating This argument is ridiculous. "it is too dumb to be cheating" So if it looks like it could be fixed we now use this as proof that it wasn't fixed? How exactly does this logic work?
It's not a proof but we don't have real proofs that he is guilty either.
If marineking threw that game it was an extremely stupid way of throwing... still he had to make the decision very quickly so that might be the reason
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On March 25 2015 04:50 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 04:47 c0ldfusion wrote:On March 25 2015 04:39 Hider wrote:On March 25 2015 04:28 Jono7272 wrote:
Looks pretty bad this time, but surely if MKP was going to throw he's smart enough to do it in a better way than that..? I guess pressure would affect that though.
Byul is also the better player, MKP would have most likely lost even if it wasn't such a weird game. He didn't scout it intentionally though. When the CC got started, the Reaper was pushed down so it scouted the Spine. Unlucky for Marineking as that probably destroyed his career. And I do agree that if he was smart, he probably would still have reacted and send his Reapers down to attack it (because you can't really fake it), but I think most will agree that Marineking has never been the most logical player, and to be fair to him, he had to make this decision pretty quickly. Damn that actually makes a lot of sense. It was pretty planned and MKP had to decide whether to continue with the plan after accidentally scouting the proxy. So you're arguing that ByuL was matchfixing too?
What? You realise you only need one player to participate to fix a match? :S
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I just wonder how many of these we've missed so far. How long has this been going on?
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On March 25 2015 05:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:05 OtherWorld wrote:On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating He'd have to know that it was proxy hatch to go CC first. Still; if you want to intentionally throw a game, will you do the safe build or the risky one? just do the greediest build possible and hope your opponent punishes it. in marinekings case it wouldn't have been suspicious at all
Well no, you go greedy as possible and if it so happens your opponent goes safe you end up with a lead, which isn't exactly what you'd want..
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On March 25 2015 05:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:05 OtherWorld wrote:On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating He'd have to know that it was proxy hatch to go CC first. Still; if you want to intentionally throw a game, will you do the safe build or the risky one? just do the greediest build possible and hope your opponent punishes it. in marinekings case it wouldn't have been suspicious at all
Hmm actually I think that the safest way to throw a game is to play safe, meaning that you don't get in the midgame with an advantage over your opponent, and then mismicro/do bad shit and lose.
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On March 25 2015 05:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:05 OtherWorld wrote:On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating He'd have to know that it was proxy hatch to go CC first. Still; if you want to intentionally throw a game, will you do the safe build or the risky one? just do the greediest build possible and hope your opponent punishes it. in marinekings case it wouldn't have been suspicious at all
And then you get away with this greed and cant do anything but win?
On March 25 2015 05:12 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 05:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 25 2015 05:03 Heartland wrote:
Two things:
One, if anyone can fuck up enough to miss a spine on the minimap it's MK.
Two, if he was throwing vs proxy hatch, why didn't he go cc first? It's a sure way to lose.
I just think it's too dumb to be cheating This argument is ridiculous. "it is too dumb to be cheating" So if it looks like it could be fixed we now use this as proof that it wasn't fixed? How exactly does this logic work? It's definitely some form of logic haha, can these organisers of this be stupid enough to over bet that much to cause Pinnacle insta-suspicion? Can MKP be that stupid to throw so obviously? Maybe someone is trying to kill off SC2 in KR /tinfoilhat
Maybe the payment for MKP was so high that they had to bet ALOT against him. And the line moved to fast to low, so they feared even when they win their bet they lose money cause of the player payment.
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I totally don't by this.
Pinacle use whatever algorithm that suits them, I don't give a flying f*, it's between them and their customers.
Is it the first time MK fails to adapt and looses miserably to cheese? no, it happen a lot even whe he was at his top.
Is it the first time MK goes for ultra greedy build when all lights are red? no, he's the guy that went CC first 90% of time in WoL and would always follow by a third CC after starport.
Has MK been any good since his miraculous hot6x cup run? no, sadly not.
Was the outcome of the game suprising? no, not all, by a huge margin.
Would anyone in right mind put money on MK when he faces one the best ZvT in the world? not really.
This match fixing theory on this particular game is bullshit. I don't say it can't happen, but not today. I mean really, there is gap between throwing a game and making a fool of yourself on TV in front of all your fans...
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God this all looks so shitty and while it really looks like it could be matchfixing, I think something that supports the "MK played just unbelievably poorly argument" was that he was a second late on his 9th worker (despite having ~90 gold), which Wolf noticed but thought he just imagined it. I'm by no means convinced, but MK looked insanely off right from the start (although it could be said that this is due to nervousness about throwing it).
Uggg
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Yikes. That game was rough...
:/
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I will note that a game like this essentially ruined Sangho's career in BW (aka Killer, aka Swagger) despite being innocent. I hope a proper investigation takes place and is able to clear things up.
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I was once accused of racism in jr. high school. Nobody seemed to realize that 3/4ths of my friends were black/asian, but the whole school turned against me for almost a year. It was ruinous and absurd.
Luckily, people realized the accuser was just trying to get attention, and things went back to normal for me. But it's awful to get accused of things, nobody should do so lightly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ahem~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, obviously you have to void the bet. But there isn't enough evidence to prove more. It is suspicious enough that something needs to be done however.
I think an investigation would be worthwhile. Perhaps, without accusing him officially of match fixing, they could temporarily suspend him from play, pending the investigation.
Was he tilting, or match fixing? One thing is that even if he was match fixing, he was also tilting because he should have known that it would be too obvious as it played out. So either way, we have to conclude he was out of his head or on tilt.
MKP's career is in trouble if he can't prove to everyone he's legit now.
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On March 25 2015 05:14 Dumbledore wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 04:50 KingAlphard wrote:On March 25 2015 04:47 c0ldfusion wrote:On March 25 2015 04:39 Hider wrote:On March 25 2015 04:28 Jono7272 wrote:
Looks pretty bad this time, but surely if MKP was going to throw he's smart enough to do it in a better way than that..? I guess pressure would affect that though.
Byul is also the better player, MKP would have most likely lost even if it wasn't such a weird game. He didn't scout it intentionally though. When the CC got started, the Reaper was pushed down so it scouted the Spine. Unlucky for Marineking as that probably destroyed his career. And I do agree that if he was smart, he probably would still have reacted and send his Reapers down to attack it (because you can't really fake it), but I think most will agree that Marineking has never been the most logical player, and to be fair to him, he had to make this decision pretty quickly. Damn that actually makes a lot of sense. It was pretty planned and MKP had to decide whether to continue with the plan after accidentally scouting the proxy. So you're arguing that ByuL was matchfixing too? What? You realise you only need one player to participate to fix a match? :S
I don't get how my post could be misunderstood this badly, but I'll explain anyway. They were saying that Marineking "accidentally" scouted the proxy, but if (or since, if you prefer) ByuL isn't involved, then he didn't know about it before he scouted it with that reaper.
If Marineking is guilty, then after seeing the proxy he was probably like:
"This is a complete all in, either I don't react or I will hold it and ByuL might just GG out after that"
Still I think it's likely that he moved the camera on the spine, and if that's the case (you can see it from the replay) you can prove that he is guilty
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I just don't think a professional player can scout late pool gas without expansions and then just sit in his base and mass CC's. The logic just doesn't add up. He doesn't send out his reapers even though he knows there's no quick speed or lings. He missed a building on his minimap for a minute as well?
Those are mistakes your average SC2 Joe could make, but these guys are playing Proleague for a reason, there's no way in hell a pro can suddenly be a unable to play the game he's been playing for 5 years.
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I doubt ByuL was involved. If he was and MKP was in on it, then MKP wouldn't have moved his Reapers in that direction. But it really looks like MKP was in the know about it. He was probably undergoing a crisis moment when he accidentally scouted it.
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I think we need to see mkp's first person view of that game.
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United States3514 Posts
Watch put boys we got another one.
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On March 25 2015 05:30 ilikeredheads wrote:
I think we need to see mkp's first person view of that game.
Would be pretty damn interesting to see.
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On March 25 2015 04:31 sashkata wrote:
It can't get any more obvious than this. This might end up being very damaging. I fear for SC2 in Korea. It wasn't very popular, but it was picking up speed.
Gotta make your money when you can if you don't think you or SC2 has a professional future as an E-Sport.
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these have all been proleague, right? Or was there one in GSL, too?
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EPT
