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On December 19 2014 06:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD Maybe he has feelings for Zest that he just doesn't know how to handle... it can be very confusing and conflicting at first. It's okay dude, those are natural. He's just a very attractive person, don't fight it! Embrace it!
Are you implying that there's something wrong with people being gay? That's very offensive. Are you one of those people in twitch chats who makes fun of Scarlett, too?
Also, I'll happily post my picture if you post yours. Deal?
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On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xqk46yf.jpg) He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wSTi4ry.jpg) I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/13aRRo4.jpg) Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic.
This is called a straw man argument
Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be."
Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said?
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On December 19 2014 06:52 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD Maybe he has feelings for Zest that he just doesn't know how to handle... it can be very confusing and conflicting at first. It's okay dude, those are natural. He's just a very attractive person, don't fight it! Embrace it! Are you implying that there's something wrong with people being gay? That's very offensive. Are you one of those people in twitch chats who makes fun of Scarlett, too? Also, I'll happily post my picture if you post yours. Deal?
Man.... I know you're trolling but this post still really fucking pissed me off. Good job.
And you'll have to buy TL+ if you wanna see my ugly mug.
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On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic.
Poor Classic.
Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss.
I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL.
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On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something.
He's not. You are incorrect.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2014 06:57 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. This is called a straw man argument Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be." Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said?
I know what words you used in your post, but I also know what point you're trying to get across. You think Zest isn't actually a very good player because he rose to prominence in a time when Protoss was doing very well. I dispute that and claim that you either did not watch his games or do not understand Starcraft well enough to comment. Zest was good both before and after the aforementioned blink era, and he is a championship contender now (as evidenced by his rather narrow elimination in the semifinals of Hot6ix Cup).
I also find it rather fascinating that Zest won the KeSPA Cup and made the GSL S3 semifinals after the dual nerfs to Protoss. Even in the event that you are right about Zest's rise being a consequence of the blink era, you got lost somewhere on the way if you think he doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now.
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On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Poor Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss. I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL.
(Response to edits)
I'm drawing the wrong conclusions? I'm sorry, what is the proper word for someone who "gets good" after not one, but two patches that buff their race to the point of Terran extinction?
And I'm glad to see that you're at least being somewhat reasonable (even if only in your edits, as an afterthought) by acknowledging that Zest is not likely to repeat his 2014 level of success in 2015.
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Austria24417 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect.
When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again.
So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying.
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On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect.
I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL.
If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting.
You don't have to agree with anyone and no one has to agree with you, the way you are trying to convince everyone else just makes you seem desperate for attention and acknowledgement. Chill man, you don't need their acknowledgement, just stick to your own opinions!
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On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points.
I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL.
Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english.
I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys.
I think he just finished TFBC.
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
Wait what? Solar will 100% be Samsung's ace, no idea why you would think he won't even play in proleague?
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
I'd rate Solar above Armani and Shine personally. I'd rate Solar above Samsung's entire roster except for maybe Dear in fact. >_>
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On December 19 2014 07:12 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:57 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. This is called a straw man argument Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be." Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said? I know what words you used in your post, but I also know what point you're trying to get across. You think Zest isn't actually a very good player because he rose to prominence in a time when Protoss was doing very well. I dispute that and claim that you either did not watch his games or do not understand Starcraft well enough to comment. Zest was good both before and after the aforementioned blink era, and he is a championship contender now (as evidenced by his rather narrow elimination in the semifinals of Hot6ix Cup). I also find it rather fascinating that Zest won the KeSPA Cup and made the GSL S3 semifinals after the dual nerfs to Protoss. Even in the event that you are right about Zest's rise being a consequence of the blink era, you got lost somewhere on the way if you think he doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now.
Again, a straw man argument. I didn't say he "doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now." I said I believe that he's getting a level of recognition that I don't think he's quite earned yet. I also disagree that he's "still playing well." That Hot6ix Cup "top 4 finish?" He barely made it out of his Hot6ix Cup group - despite his group consisting of 3/4 Protoss:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8kRhDE3.jpg)
Then he 3-1'ed Soulkey, who has been rather awful this past year (And just got 3-0'ed by Rogue). Boom, 4th place finish. And remember, he was seeded in because of his GSL S1 win. He didn't have to play in the qualifiers. His "top 4 finish" consists of 3 wins total - 2 PvPs (And he ALMOST lost one of those PvP series; tied at 1-1, in the final game Parting's stalkers just barely didn't see Zest's stalkers and ran past, a very lucky break for Zest. Go back and watch the VOD) and one PvZ win against a struggling Soulkey (who advanced with 2 ZvT wins, and not playing a ZvP).
Zest was also very underwhelming in the second half of 2014 Proleague. He even lost his match - a PvP - in the SPL finals.
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On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." + Show Spoiler +He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12):
I know very well that Zest having a great first half of 2014 was, in a way, a byproduct of racial imbalance since he has top PvP, great PvZ and mediocre PvT. Of course it's going to propel him to the top in the Zparcraft environment. If you want the exact numbers from all the Premier he played prior to Hot6ix, here you go:
- 55 PvP with a 42-13 record (76.36%).
- 35 PvT with a 19-16 record (54.29%). Virtually half of the PvTs were played post-patch at IEM Toronto. Before that, he had 7-3. Post-patch, he scored 12-13.
- 44 PvZ with a 28-16 record (63.64%).
So yes, your analysis is accurate. Zest was the master of Zparcraft. But now, are you forced to call him "patchtoss" everywhere for all that, instead of simply stating that he will have a rough 2015 year if he doesn't improve in PvT...
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
boss zergs? Besides Solar they've got Armani and Shine. Armani seems to do well online but all televised matches I've seen with him have been weak performances. Shine has his moments but I don't think he's that strong at all. Not only is that a weak Zerg force without Solar, but I'm not seeing a clear ace player either unless Dear has recovered his 2013 form. I'd be shocked if Solar isn't frequently fielded.
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Zest is solid, but I don't really like him. Tbh I thought he was really good back then when he used to be P7GAB :p
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On December 19 2014 07:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again. So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying.
That's actually false; I said I was half serious. That was true - the tone of my posts in the other thread were most definitely "half in jest," as I put it. This is me being serious, which is why I here took the time to explain and back up my claims and reasoning behind them. I was neither lying then nor now. Threatening to ban me for that is just pathetic.
On December 19 2014 07:25 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL. If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting.
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people?
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Austria24417 Posts
Add backseat moderation to the list of offenses
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On December 19 2014 07:16 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Poor Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss. I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL. (Response to edits) I'm drawing the wrong conclusions? I'm sorry, what is the proper word for someone who "gets good" after not one, but two patches that buff their race to the point of Terran extinction?
"Specialist." You don't have to be a patch-Toss to be able to capitalize on the abundance of shit-tier Protoss and Zerg running rampant throughout half of 2014, you just have to be really damn good at vP and vZ. Which Zest is.
He's almost single-handedly responsible for PvP starting to look like a MU where the better player actually wins. I wish I knew a little more about the history of PvP (never thought I'd be saying that) to know if he actually revolutionized it... but he most certainly perfected it.
And I'm glad to see that you're at least being somewhat reasonable (even if only in your edits, as an afterthought) by acknowledging that Zest is not likely to repeat his 2014 level of success in 2015.
It's not an afterthought, it feels like I've been predicting Zest's drop-off in every second thread I visit the last few days, and I was starting to sound like a broken record in my own head. Especially because it's by no means impossible for Zest to actually bring his vT to par with his other MUs. It wouldn't even take that much, just a few more DTs and Oracles than he's used to...
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On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again. So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying. That's actually false; I said I was half serious. That was true - the tone of my posts in the other thread were most definitely "half in jest," as I put it. This is me being serious, which is why I here took the time to explain and back up my claims and reasoning behind them. I was neither lying then nor now. Threatening to ban me for that is just pathetic. Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:25 Shuffleblade wrote:On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL. If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting. I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people?
Ya, the person who has openly admitted to having homosexual feeling for Zest (me) made a joke about it and in no way implied it was a bad thing, in fact was encouraging it... very much warning worthy.
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EPT
