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<lichter, monk and whoever else runs the FPL, i forbid you from reading this!
While we eagerly wait for the FPL release by wearing down the f5 button, let's talk about players we expect to overpreform, the up and commers and players who can bring us those sweet sweet fantasy points for the least cost.
- Cj Entus:
ByuL, while his solo league results has been mediocore, he went 18-11 last season and he's currently the only Zerg on the CJ team (a 8-player roster), which means that he's likely to play a lot.
- Jin Air Green Wings:
Rogue, 17-13 last season and constantly underpriced he's usually a top pick. However this year I have my doubts. But if he keeps getting priced in the 4-5 range. I'm picking him up without a doubt.
- KT Rolster:
Stats, 15-10 last season and on a 8-player roster, overshadowed by his toss teammate Zest, Stats is usually one of the most cost effecient players in FPL.
TY, 17-12 last season and the 4th best terran in SPL. Let's just hope they forget that and gives him to cheap.
In addition KT Rolster has an extreme ability to simply win in Proleague combined with an 8-player roster giving the players a high chance of getting to play a lot, I think this team has the most safe bets.
- MVP: pls I've been hurt before.
- Prime:
Yoda, since he's on the team with the most sparse roster in the league I expect him to get played a LOT and since he's not gotten any good results recently he's probably going to be underpriced.
Creator, maybe they'll downprice him since he's only 15-17 last season?
- Samsung Galaxxy:
Stork, because I want to believe.
- SK Telecom:
Billowy, 9-9 last season. I must admit I feel like a wife going back to a abusive husband each time I pick him. After his all kill last season I picked him everytime I could, and was disapointed nontheless
But on a team that alongside KT Rolster simply ends up winning a lot and on a 8-player roster, I once again will probably pick him. Pluss, he's going to get underpriced.
Dream, 6-6, another MVP player now on SK Telecom. In addition to being on the right team, he's also terran so balance will favor him, so that's nice.
- Startale:
Bomber, maybe, just MAYBE they'll forget that he was number 1 seed to blizzcon?
Post your predicition and reasoning!
GLHF in FPL :D
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Innovation - He won't be cheap, but he has yet to underperform in a teamleague
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Yeah I got the same mentality towards Flash too: Right team, never underpreform, right race and expensive
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It's hard to know without the point values but if I were a guessing man:
 ByuL: He'll likely be 7-8 points, maybe even a 6 considering he's really underrated. Either way he's totally worth it. CJ's entire Zerg lineup rests on him, and it seems like a team that's taking the KT-approach of quality over quantity so expect a lot of play time out of him.
 Journey: A very hardworking player who I think is quietly one of the better upcomers. Now that he finally has a team and doesn't have terribly tough competition to get in the lineup, I suspect he'll be a bargain in the end.
Probably 1-2 points.
Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points.
MarineKing: -_- he's a good pick I guuuessss...
sKyHigh: Fearsome TvT. Not so much in TvZ and TvP but good enough to maybe get some non-Terran kills. CJ is a small team too, so he's bound to come out a lot. He might be on my team if he's 3 points or less.
Dark: Faces some competition with SKT's lineup so their may be diminished playtime. In terms of skill, I think he's in with Rogue and ByuL in the trinity of upcoming Zerg gods. Therefore, I'd imagine he'll be 4-5 points. What a steal.
Sorry: Basically Journey #2. Another underrated player that's probably going to be 2-3 points.
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Its really hard to say, since we are not trying to figure out who's going to overperform relative to what they've been doing recently, we're trying to figure out who's going to overperform relative to what staff values them at. So without knowing what staff values them at...
For example last season DRG was an amazing anti-team round 1 simply because staff valued him at 7 for no evident reason, and he performed as expected i.e poorly.
I agree that Byul and Rogue will probably be good picks especially if zerg maps show up in later rounds due to the scarcity of zergs on their team. Yonghwa and Dear maybe too, though I have a feeling that Yonghwa especially might be on staff's radar.
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Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced.
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oh if we're including anti-team picks: TAEJA TAEJA TAEJA :p
Oh he's good....when he actually plays!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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On December 18 2014 15:31 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
oh if we're including anti-team picks: TAEJA TAEJA TAEJA :p
Oh he's good....when he actually plays!
He'll probably play in the first series against SKT to worsen soO's post-traumatic stress disorder, but after that I agree with you in that he probably won't play much.
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On December 18 2014 15:34 lichter wrote:
too late i clicked
Pls make FPL. Im getting desperate.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 18 2014 15:36 SnowStormer wrote:Pls make FPL. Im getting desperate.
We're waiting for R1CH (who is on vacation) to enable things as far as I know. There will be FPL soon though
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 18 2014 15:42 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:36 SnowStormer wrote:On December 18 2014 15:34 lichter wrote:
too late i clicked Pls make FPL. Im getting desperate. We're waiting for R1CH (who is on vacation) to enable things as far as I know. There will be FPL soon though
someone go sacrifice a dozen old macbooks at the Altar of the Wizard
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There's a good chance that TY has the best TvT in Korea right now. He's sitting at some absurd winrate like 78% over the last six months, and that's including series against Maru, Cure, Innovation, and sKyHigh.
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Hmm...
Let's go by teams:
SKT: Innovation
Jin Air: sOs, Maru, Rogue
KT Rolster: TY, Flash, Zest, Stats
CJ Entus: herO, Bbyong, ByuL
Prime: Creator (Prime's only savior)
Samsung: Solar
MVP: It's hard to say, but I won't say MKP2 yet (1 tournament run isn't going to translate to Proleague results)
Startale/YoeFlash Wolves: Like MVP, most of these players aren't great PL vets, so we'll see how they do.
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Nice read. Thx. I feel, considering the somehow very homogenous level and uncertainty of the new 2015 lines up, we shouldn't have the Flash, Innovation for 11... TY, Zest, Life for 10... Stork for 5, Terminator for 3... but rather much closer price range. I just hope there will be a lot of 5-6 and not a lot of 9-10... I want to pick a max of players I like 
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sKyHigh will surprise many. Bbyong and herO will perform at their natural level, that is the top level
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced.
It's hilariously bad idea to put guys with one of the best PvPs in Korea onti anti-team.
But i expect a lot of teams are going to be built around Bogus and secondary carry like Solar, if they're not going to have combined cost at 16-18. Something like Bogus-Cure-YoDa core should work wonders though but again, it depends on costs.
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On December 18 2014 17:13 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. It's hilariously bad idea to put guys with one of the best PvPs in Korea onti anti-team. But i expect a lot of teams are going to be built around Bogus and secondary carry like Solar, if they're not going to have combined cost at 16-18. Something like Bogus-Cure-YoDa core should work wonders though but again, it depends on costs.
What i consider important is finding the underpriced players whom you can take in addition to the core players like InNovation, flash, TY, Rain, herO, sOs, etc etc.
I hope the readers goal in this thread is to find players they hadn't considered in the medium/low price range, to put some meat to the skeleton which will be a core.
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Main: CJ, KT, SKT, Samsung, and Jinair.
Anti: Prime, MVP, StarTale-yoe
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On December 18 2014 15:42 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:36 SnowStormer wrote:On December 18 2014 15:34 lichter wrote:
too late i clicked Pls make FPL. Im getting desperate. We're waiting for R1CH (who is on vacation) to enable things as far as I know. There will be FPL soon though
I have a bet with my friends that who ever get's the best FPL score wins a Glenfiddich, and I take my whiskey seriously.
The FPL can't come fast enough
(Btw you'll make Life cheap right?)
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On December 18 2014 18:03 SnowStormer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:42 Zealously wrote:On December 18 2014 15:36 SnowStormer wrote:On December 18 2014 15:34 lichter wrote:
too late i clicked Pls make FPL. Im getting desperate. We're waiting for R1CH (who is on vacation) to enable things as far as I know. There will be FPL soon though I have a bet with my friends that who ever get's the best FPL score wins a Glenfiddich, and I take my whiskey seriously. The FPL can't come fast enough (Btw you'll make Life cheap right?)
I see Life more as a 5/6 value, if you call that cheap
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Zoun, just to mess with people
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United States97276 Posts
On December 18 2014 16:32 hansonslee wrote:
Hmm...
Let's go by teams:
SKT: Innovation
Jin Air: sOs, Maru, Rogue
KT Rolster: TY, Flash, Zest, Stats
CJ Entus: herO, Bbyong, ByuL
Prime: Creator (Prime's only savior)
Samsung: Solar
MVP: It's hard to say, but I won't say MKP2 yet (1 tournament run isn't going to translate to Proleague results)
Startale/YoeFlash Wolves: Like MVP, most of these players aren't great PL vets, so we'll see how they do.
Myungsik and Yoda should both be better players for Prime
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Bbyong surprised me last season. I'll have to see how many points he's priced at.
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On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced.
If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it
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On December 18 2014 18:03 SnowStormer wrote:I have a bet with my friends that who ever get's the best FPL score wins a Glenfiddich, and I take my whiskey seriously. The FPL can't come fast enough (Btw you'll make Life cheap right?)
Glenfiddich is not whiskey, it's whisky.
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It's kind of stupid to think about who to pick without knowing the cost. The only argument that would make sense is something like "Writer X unreasonably likes player Y, so it is likely that Y will be overrated." Otherwise we just don't know if the writers will do a good job with pricing the players. Last season for example was priced reasonably (as evidenced by the low point count of everyone) but the seasons before it was kind of stupid.
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On December 18 2014 15:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:31 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
oh if we're including anti-team picks: TAEJA TAEJA TAEJA :p
Oh he's good....when he actually plays! He'll probably play in the first series against SKT to worsen soO's post-traumatic stress disorder, but after that I agree with you in that he probably won't play much.
That would be hilarious. Taeja beats soO, causing him to go on tilt and lose every game from then on, and never actually plays again in FPL. Sad, cruel, and hilarious.
Realistically, I expect the writers to be in the same mindset as everyone else concerning Taeja and price him at like 4 or 5, and at that price even if he plays like 30% of matches he'll have been a good pick.
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Where is the FPL, the first games are pretty soon right?
On that note Cure, Maru, Classic and Dark are the main players I will look to pick up depending on their costs.
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On December 19 2014 05:07 Shuffleblade wrote:
Where is the FPL, the first games are pretty soon right?
On that note Cure, Maru, Classic and Dark are the main players I will look to pick up depending on their costs.
Hm i would rate them as 6,8,7 and 5.
Maybe +1 each, not sure^^
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RICH plz, what are you doing?
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On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it
Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting.
Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed.
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On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed.
I would rather say your trolling is pretty obvious.
Then go for it, pick both Zest and Flash for your antiteam, i am pretty sure you won't do well if you really believe what you say...
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On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed.
Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ...
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On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ...
Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss."
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xqk46yf.jpg)
He had a consistently poor rating until those patches.
Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wSTi4ry.jpg)
I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success.
Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12):
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/13aRRo4.jpg)
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Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD
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On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD
Maybe he has feelings for Zest that he just doesn't know how to handle... it can be very confusing and conflicting at first.
It's okay dude, those are natural. He's just a very attractive person, don't fight it! Embrace it!
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On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD
I like Zest just fine, I just don't like any player, regardless of who he/she is, getting a level of recognition that I don't think they quite deserve.
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guys, out of the subject question, but how do you make a forum?
I found a talk show with mma and mc in eng on youtube and want to post it.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12):
Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Don't you think it's strange that Zest only hit a rough patch after Blizzcon (which was well after the worst part of the blink era) and even then made top 4 in Hot6ix Cup?
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On December 19 2014 06:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD Maybe he has feelings for Zest that he just doesn't know how to handle... it can be very confusing and conflicting at first. It's okay dude, those are natural. He's just a very attractive person, don't fight it! Embrace it!
Are you implying that there's something wrong with people being gay? That's very offensive. Are you one of those people in twitch chats who makes fun of Scarlett, too?
Also, I'll happily post my picture if you post yours. Deal?
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On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic.
This is called a straw man argument
Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be."
Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said?
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On December 19 2014 06:52 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 19 2014 06:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Damn, this guy really doesn't like Zest xD Maybe he has feelings for Zest that he just doesn't know how to handle... it can be very confusing and conflicting at first. It's okay dude, those are natural. He's just a very attractive person, don't fight it! Embrace it! Are you implying that there's something wrong with people being gay? That's very offensive. Are you one of those people in twitch chats who makes fun of Scarlett, too? Also, I'll happily post my picture if you post yours. Deal?
Man.... I know you're trolling but this post still really fucking pissed me off. Good job.
And you'll have to buy TL+ if you wanna see my ugly mug.
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On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic.
Poor Classic.
Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss.
I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL.
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On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something.
He's not. You are incorrect.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2014 06:57 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. This is called a straw man argument Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be." Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said?
I know what words you used in your post, but I also know what point you're trying to get across. You think Zest isn't actually a very good player because he rose to prominence in a time when Protoss was doing very well. I dispute that and claim that you either did not watch his games or do not understand Starcraft well enough to comment. Zest was good both before and after the aforementioned blink era, and he is a championship contender now (as evidenced by his rather narrow elimination in the semifinals of Hot6ix Cup).
I also find it rather fascinating that Zest won the KeSPA Cup and made the GSL S3 semifinals after the dual nerfs to Protoss. Even in the event that you are right about Zest's rise being a consequence of the blink era, you got lost somewhere on the way if you think he doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now.
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On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Poor Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss. I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL.
(Response to edits)
I'm drawing the wrong conclusions? I'm sorry, what is the proper word for someone who "gets good" after not one, but two patches that buff their race to the point of Terran extinction?
And I'm glad to see that you're at least being somewhat reasonable (even if only in your edits, as an afterthought) by acknowledging that Zest is not likely to repeat his 2014 level of success in 2015.
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Austria24417 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect.
When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again.
So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying.
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On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect.
I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL.
If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting.
You don't have to agree with anyone and no one has to agree with you, the way you are trying to convince everyone else just makes you seem desperate for attention and acknowledgement. Chill man, you don't need their acknowledgement, just stick to your own opinions!
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On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points.
I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL.
Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english.
I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys.
I think he just finished TFBC.
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
Wait what? Solar will 100% be Samsung's ace, no idea why you would think he won't even play in proleague?
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
I'd rate Solar above Armani and Shine personally. I'd rate Solar above Samsung's entire roster except for maybe Dear in fact. >_>
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On December 19 2014 07:12 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:57 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. This is called a straw man argument Furthermore, you don't seem to understand how to use quotation marks (or you are just trolling). Nowhere in my post do I see myself making the statement that you "quoted." I definitely did not say that "any player that improves when his race is doing well cannot be good and will never be." Perhaps you might want to re-read my post, then respond to what I actually said? I know what words you used in your post, but I also know what point you're trying to get across. You think Zest isn't actually a very good player because he rose to prominence in a time when Protoss was doing very well. I dispute that and claim that you either did not watch his games or do not understand Starcraft well enough to comment. Zest was good both before and after the aforementioned blink era, and he is a championship contender now (as evidenced by his rather narrow elimination in the semifinals of Hot6ix Cup). I also find it rather fascinating that Zest won the KeSPA Cup and made the GSL S3 semifinals after the dual nerfs to Protoss. Even in the event that you are right about Zest's rise being a consequence of the blink era, you got lost somewhere on the way if you think he doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now.
Again, a straw man argument. I didn't say he "doesn't deserve recognition for still playing well now." I said I believe that he's getting a level of recognition that I don't think he's quite earned yet. I also disagree that he's "still playing well." That Hot6ix Cup "top 4 finish?" He barely made it out of his Hot6ix Cup group - despite his group consisting of 3/4 Protoss:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8kRhDE3.jpg)
Then he 3-1'ed Soulkey, who has been rather awful this past year (And just got 3-0'ed by Rogue). Boom, 4th place finish. And remember, he was seeded in because of his GSL S1 win. He didn't have to play in the qualifiers. His "top 4 finish" consists of 3 wins total - 2 PvPs (And he ALMOST lost one of those PvP series; tied at 1-1, in the final game Parting's stalkers just barely didn't see Zest's stalkers and ran past, a very lucky break for Zest. Go back and watch the VOD) and one PvZ win against a struggling Soulkey (who advanced with 2 ZvT wins, and not playing a ZvP).
Zest was also very underwhelming in the second half of 2014 Proleague. He even lost his match - a PvP - in the SPL finals.
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On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." + Show Spoiler +He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12):
I know very well that Zest having a great first half of 2014 was, in a way, a byproduct of racial imbalance since he has top PvP, great PvZ and mediocre PvT. Of course it's going to propel him to the top in the Zparcraft environment. If you want the exact numbers from all the Premier he played prior to Hot6ix, here you go:
- 55 PvP with a 42-13 record (76.36%).
- 35 PvT with a 19-16 record (54.29%). Virtually half of the PvTs were played post-patch at IEM Toronto. Before that, he had 7-3. Post-patch, he scored 12-13.
- 44 PvZ with a 28-16 record (63.64%).
So yes, your analysis is accurate. Zest was the master of Zparcraft. But now, are you forced to call him "patchtoss" everywhere for all that, instead of simply stating that he will have a rough 2015 year if he doesn't improve in PvT...
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On December 19 2014 07:30 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 15:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Solar: aka New RorO. People probably know Solar is good by now, but I still get the perception that he's underrated. He totally deserves to be in the same league as Life, Soulkey, and soO. Samsung has a busted lineup, so he'll see a lot of playtime. Probably 7-8 points. I love Solar, but I don't think he will get any PL play. Samsung arleady has boss zergs, they don't need him to play in PL. Solar is Samsung Khan's international face. That dude has been to lots of NA/EU tournaments, while not many of the other Khans have participated much. And Solar's english is boss also. I am impressed with Solar's english. I would love to see Solar play in PL, but I predict he will mostly do international tourneys. I think he just finished TFBC.
boss zergs? Besides Solar they've got Armani and Shine. Armani seems to do well online but all televised matches I've seen with him have been weak performances. Shine has his moments but I don't think he's that strong at all. Not only is that a weak Zerg force without Solar, but I'm not seeing a clear ace player either unless Dear has recovered his 2013 form. I'd be shocked if Solar isn't frequently fielded.
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Zest is solid, but I don't really like him. Tbh I thought he was really good back then when he used to be P7GAB :p
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On December 19 2014 07:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again. So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying.
That's actually false; I said I was half serious. That was true - the tone of my posts in the other thread were most definitely "half in jest," as I put it. This is me being serious, which is why I here took the time to explain and back up my claims and reasoning behind them. I was neither lying then nor now. Threatening to ban me for that is just pathetic.
On December 19 2014 07:25 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL. If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting.
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people?
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Austria24417 Posts
Add backseat moderation to the list of offenses
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On December 19 2014 07:16 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Poor Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. It's not entirely wrong that "it's no coincidence that Zest got so good last year," but you're drawing the wrong conclusions if you think that makes him a patch-Toss. I do expect Zest to struggle more in individual leagues in 2015, but that shouldn't mean a thing for PL. (Response to edits) I'm drawing the wrong conclusions? I'm sorry, what is the proper word for someone who "gets good" after not one, but two patches that buff their race to the point of Terran extinction?
"Specialist." You don't have to be a patch-Toss to be able to capitalize on the abundance of shit-tier Protoss and Zerg running rampant throughout half of 2014, you just have to be really damn good at vP and vZ. Which Zest is.
He's almost single-handedly responsible for PvP starting to look like a MU where the better player actually wins. I wish I knew a little more about the history of PvP (never thought I'd be saying that) to know if he actually revolutionized it... but he most certainly perfected it.
And I'm glad to see that you're at least being somewhat reasonable (even if only in your edits, as an afterthought) by acknowledging that Zest is not likely to repeat his 2014 level of success in 2015.
It's not an afterthought, it feels like I've been predicting Zest's drop-off in every second thread I visit the last few days, and I was starting to sound like a broken record in my own head. Especially because it's by no means impossible for Zest to actually bring his vT to par with his other MUs. It wouldn't even take that much, just a few more DTs and Oracles than he's used to...
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On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. When I had this same argument with you, you backed out claiming you weren't being serious. Now you're arguing this again. So you were either lying to me then, or you're lying now. Either way I should ban you for lying. That's actually false; I said I was half serious. That was true - the tone of my posts in the other thread were most definitely "half in jest," as I put it. This is me being serious, which is why I here took the time to explain and back up my claims and reasoning behind them. I was neither lying then nor now. Threatening to ban me for that is just pathetic. Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:25 Shuffleblade wrote:On December 19 2014 07:10 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 19 2014 06:52 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 06:42 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 06:03 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 05:54 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 01:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 18 2014 15:28 SackOfWetMice wrote:
Zest will be a good anti-team pick. Patchtoss that will most likely be very overpriced. If you wanna lose a lot of points, sure go for it Your blatant KT fanboyism is disgusting. Flash 0-3 Life. Flash looked like a NA Masters level Terran. I called this a while ago, and was flamed for saying Zest and Flash will drop off in 2015. And Zest didn't even qualify for either SSL or GSL. Flash did. So I wonder how hilariously bad Zest's games would have looked if his qualifier matches had been streamed. Man, you have 51 posts and I swear this is the 15th time I read you calling Zest "patchtoss" ... + Show Spoiler +Look at Zest's Aligulac page. Do you not think it's a bit odd that he saw his two largest spikes in rating shortly after 2.0.9 and 2.0.12? (And each spike is followed by a plateau) That's the definition of a "patch toss." He had a consistently poor rating until those patches. Not to mention that 2014 was the undisputed year of Protoss, and the worst year ever for Terran. What was it, 16 Protoss in GSL S1 and 3 Terran? Now let's look at which matchups are Zest's strongest and weakest: I can't be the only one who sees this. It's fairly obvious that he rode good PvP during the year of Protoss to success. Compare that to someone like Rain (consistency, was good before 2.0.9 and 2.0.12): Ah, the old "players that improve during a time when their race is doing well cannot actually be legitimately good and never will be"-argument. Classic. Lol@Zest "patch-toss." He's probably more of a straight shooter than Rain is, and that's saying something. He's not. You are incorrect. I don't like Zest particularly much, I actually rate Classic above him and I expect Zest to fall off in 2015. I however will never say that he wasn't or isn't an incredibly skilled SC2 player. I get aggravated at Zest being one of the names thrown out there as a possible legend following in MVPs shoes but I would not go to your length and downright insult both players and posters on TL. If you want to discuss things on a forum do so in a civil manner without ignoring answers and being insulting. I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people?
Ya, the person who has openly admitted to having homosexual feeling for Zest (me) made a joke about it and in no way implied it was a bad thing, in fact was encouraging it... very much warning worthy.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people?
Running joke on TL. Please take my word for it when I say that we know when people are taking actual jabs at homosexuality (and implying that it's in any way wrong) and when people are joking. If you feel there is an issue with our moderation standards, however, feel free to take those concerns to Website Feedback.
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Austria24417 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:56 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people? Running joke on TL. Please take my word for it when I say that we know when people are taking actual jabs at homosexuality (and implying that it's in any way wrong) and when people are joking. If you feel there is an issue with our moderation standards, however, feel free to take those concerns to Website Feedback.
Stop your frontseat moderation at once
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On December 19 2014 07:56 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people? Running joke on TL. Please take my word for it when I say that we know when people are taking actual jabs at homosexuality (and implying that it's in any way wrong) and when people are joking. If you feel there is an issue with our moderation standards, however, feel free to take those concerns to Website Feedback.
Oh god no, I don't want something involving me to be the focus of that moderations standards thread again...
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well this wasn't quite the thread i thought it would be..
on topic though, i have weirdly high hops for StarTale-yoe. not saying they will win the whole thing but rather do better then last like what a lot of people are saying.
San has shown promise lately and i would like to see some of the Taiwanese players get some exosphere
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On December 19 2014 07:56 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people? Running joke on TL. Please take my word for it when I say that we know when people are taking actual jabs at homosexuality (and implying that it's in any way wrong) and when people are joking. If you feel there is an issue with our moderation standards, however, feel free to take those concerns to Website Feedback.
I don't have concerns about moderation, nor do I actually think he harbors any ill will towards gay people. But what was I supposed to do, deny it? That's just playing right into his hands. 
The only defense against his post (SetGuitarsToKill) was to go on the offensive. Defensiveness would have been used against me as evidence that his claims were right on the money.
I've been reading these forums for ages. Just because I only recently started to post doesn't mean I'm new here or to this whole forum game (I'm staff/admin on other forums I frequent). And I like to walk the line. (I <3 you all).
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@SackOfWetMice
correct me if im wrong, but in beginning of all this you said Flash was playing like a master level player. i'm curious as to why you think that? i mean homestory cup and KeSPA cup both weren't that long ago and he preformed well at both.
just want to know if i missed a really bad showing or something
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On December 19 2014 08:20 iseefor wrote:@SackOfWetMice correct me if im wrong, but in beginning of all this you said Flash was playing like a master level player. i'm curious as to why you think that? i mean homestory cup and KeSPA cup both weren't that long ago and he preformed well at both. just want to know if i missed a really bad showing or something
You did. He got 3-0'ed by Life last night in the SSL. Pretty much everyone agrees that Flash played horribly.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV
The VODs should be up there for each of the 3 games.
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On December 19 2014 08:34 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 08:20 iseefor wrote:@SackOfWetMice correct me if im wrong, but in beginning of all this you said Flash was playing like a master level player. i'm curious as to why you think that? i mean homestory cup and KeSPA cup both weren't that long ago and he preformed well at both. just want to know if i missed a really bad showing or something You did. He got 3-0'ed by Life last night in the SSL. Pretty much everyone agrees that Flash played horribly. https://m.youtube.com/user/ESportsTVThe VODs should be up there for each of the 3 games.
ahh i gotcha. thanks man
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On December 19 2014 08:34 iseefor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 08:34 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 08:20 iseefor wrote:@SackOfWetMice correct me if im wrong, but in beginning of all this you said Flash was playing like a master level player. i'm curious as to why you think that? i mean homestory cup and KeSPA cup both weren't that long ago and he preformed well at both. just want to know if i missed a really bad showing or something You did. He got 3-0'ed by Life last night in the SSL. Pretty much everyone agrees that Flash played horribly. https://m.youtube.com/user/ESportsTVThe VODs should be up there for each of the 3 games. ahh i gotcha. thanks man
Link was to youtube mobile; I edited it and should be correct now.
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On December 19 2014 08:08 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:56 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2014 07:45 SackOfWetMice wrote:
I was quite civil until someone claimed I didn't like Zest because of repressed homosexual urges. That person received no warning. In what way is anything I've said more offensive than the poster who openly implied that there was something wrong with gay people? Running joke on TL. Please take my word for it when I say that we know when people are taking actual jabs at homosexuality (and implying that it's in any way wrong) and when people are joking. If you feel there is an issue with our moderation standards, however, feel free to take those concerns to Website Feedback. I don't have concerns about moderation, nor do I actually think he harbors any ill will towards gay people. But what was I supposed to do, deny it? That's just playing right into his hands. The only defense against his post (SetGuitarsToKill) was to go on the offensive. Defensiveness would have been used against me as evidence that his claims were right on the money. I've been reading these forums for ages. Just because I only recently started to post doesn't mean I'm new here or to this whole forum game (I'm staff/admin on other forums I frequent). And I like to walk the line. (I <3 you all).
In all honesty and without any aggressive feeling, I don't think that the fact that you've been reading these forums "for ages" allows you to be disrespectful towards Zest or any forumer here.
edit : I mean come on, basically half of your posts are about Rain, but the other half is about calling Zest a patchtoss and then trying to argue/justify it while Downfall himself said that calling him a Patchtoss wasn't legit.
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Dream is a streaky veteran on a PL powerhouse team that has taken a roster beating in the off season. He's very likely to be under priced.
Dear. This guy is regaining his form. Even if he can't return to the KILL EVERYONE Dear of late 2013 (which is actually good cuz it means he won't be pricey), he should still be good enough to consistently rack up wins and will most likely be played by Samsung most if not every game (their roster this season does not look good).
Bomber is NOT a good pick. As good as he might be, he's already said he won't be playing much. And he's probably gonna be pretty expensive. Has nobody read this thread? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/473474-bomber-to-be-st-yoes-player-coach
SkyHigh, ByuL and MyuNgSiK. Just tossing these 3 names out there.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
TIME TO FINALIZE THE NUMBERS
i hope i make you all miserable with my decisions
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Just ask me, i am good with numbers
proof: 5>4
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So everyone, pls pick Taeja, HerO, Bomber, Leenock etc. kthx. :p
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On December 19 2014 17:14 lichter wrote:
TIME TO FINALIZE THE NUMBERS
i hope i make you all miserable with my decisions
I can't wait to slack off at work and pick a fantasy team. It's almost like what normal people do, except for Starcraft instead of football or hockey
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EPT
