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On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day.
This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
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Pretty solid powerranking.
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your Country52798 Posts
On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ...
Considering we have comments saying MMA shouldn't be on the list (like this one), and comments saying he should be as high as #2 or #1, I think #6 is a fair compromise 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one,
This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
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On November 15 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one, Show nested quote +This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat.
I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
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On November 15 2014 04:49 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one, This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat. I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high.
Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
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On November 15 2014 05:14 bourne117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 04:49 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one, This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat. I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high. Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side.
If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion.
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On November 15 2014 05:41 TsogiMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 05:14 bourne117 wrote:On November 15 2014 04:49 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one, This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat. I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high. Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side. If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion.
What? SoO played just as well against Taeja than against Flash, he played almost flawlessly except that he kept attacking off creep and Taeja didn't let SoO fight him on creep.
MMA only beat Bomber because he was clearly off that day, MMA wouldn't stand a chance against most Kespa players.
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Top 5 all from the lower bracket... having a PR that's essentially based on a single tournament is kinda silly.
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I would have swaped Taeja and Life.
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Having attended Blizzcon (ok, just the $30 WCS seats ), I can say two things:
1. Innovation got royally screwed by the delays. He actually looked physically sick in his booth. I actually left halfway through the series because I was so fed up with the delays (throughout the entire day). Innovation was broken at the start of the series. The power rank said it perfectly.
2. Watching Life vs Taeja was incredible. I've never felt more energy at an SC tournament than when Life won game 5; truly awesome! Once Life made it passed Taeja, we all knew MMA wouldn't stand a chance. A very well deserved victory indeed.
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On November 15 2014 05:54 ANLProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2014 05:41 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 05:14 bourne117 wrote:On November 15 2014 04:49 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On November 15 2014 02:27 TsogiMaster wrote:On November 15 2014 00:47 iamkaokao wrote:
I dont think MMA deserves this list , his region and opponents" tvt" doesnt prove that he is solid enough yet.. i can see many kespa players like maru , TY , flash , byong , soulkey dark stats rain beating him any given day in a long series ... MMA will beat any of them easily in his best day. This ranking makes any sense. I mean which factors played to this ranking? Life is #1, so i would think Blizzcon had a big impact on this ranking, because Life achieved anything/performed poorly last 2 moths(GSL not even in Code S),except his brilliant play on Blizzcon. Taeja aswell(WCS NA round of 16 only, and no markable tournaments in last 2-3months) If it is so, why is soO and Zest so up there? Being there means that their recently performances (GSL, Dreamhack, Kespa Cup) had surely influenced this ranking too. So why the hell is MMA and Bomber so lower ranked? Both won their WCS Season 3, and MMA winning Dreamhack Moscow, while Bomber winning RedBull Washington. They have to be placed higher if the perfromances from last tournamest should be considered. So these rankings all stand in contrast to each other and they make so sence how it is now. But well, it seems some people agree with these one, This Power Rank weights performance at the WCS Global Finals very heavily. Although results in the past month were looked at in order to determine exact placing, the year's ultimate tournament takes precedence because of its magnitude, format and overall level of competition.
The Power Rank takes into account results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat. I kinda know that, what i mean is the time gap, that has been concerned to this rankingl. If it is only 1 month, then there were almost no tournaments to be concerned to this ranking than Blizzcon. Then even how good and dominating they were before, their results hadnt had any influence on these rankings. Zest, who dominated last 3-4 months and considered as the best player, and soO, considered as most consistent player after reaching 4 GSL finals and as the best Zerg player at the moment, didnt play so good at Blizzcon. Zest played well but not so good as he used to be, like soO, who dissapointed more than Zest. So I mean I cant see any general same timeline for all players, almost all of them have different one, thats what i meant. It cant be Life ranked number #1 if it is about last 3-4 months, he delivered only on Blizzcon. If its almost only Blizzcon, then yes he deserves to be number 1, but Zest and soO wouldnt be so high. Why do people think Zest and Soo played badly? They played Taeja and Life who were simply just playing even better. If they were on the other side of the bracket I GUARANTEE one of them would be in the finals and would have only lost to each other. The bracket was just unfairly stacked on one side. If you wouldve seen soO playing in GSL before Finals, he was almost unstoppable, he couldve beaten Taeja easily in that form, Taeja was playing great and one of the best Terrans but he would ve not won so easily 3-1 vs soO in form. Zest played great, and Life aswell, but that was definetely not Zest, who beat Kespa Cup. I am not saying they played bad directly, I am saying they played not so good as they used to be, mostly soO. But its my opinion. What? SoO played just as well against Taeja than against Flash, he played almost flawlessly except that he kept attacking off creep and Taeja didn't let SoO fight him on creep. MMA only beat Bomber because he was clearly off that day, MMA wouldn't stand a chance against most Kespa players.
eh this "Kespa player" thing is misleading because it implies all the kespa teams are even right now. The top players right now are mostly from SKT and KT and a few are "foreign" Koreans like Taeja and Bomber. The other Kespa teams have successful players from time to time like Cure, sOs, Life, but SKT and KT are above the other Kespa teams right now.
so yeah, MMA would probably beat most Prime players, or maybe Samsung if you want to get really technical and only look at old Kespa.
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AKA who did well at Blizzcon rank
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that zealous love for life
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The discrepancy between MMA's, Life's, and Taeja's rank (which has been explained and makes perfect sense) highlights an issue I see with this power ranking.
What's its goal? Is it merely to assess the latest statistics, serve as an aggregate across several months of tournaments and tie the resulting numbers up with a personalized bow? Or is it to have predictive power, to analyze the content of games and say "this player might have won the entire tournament, but he used cheesy units to do it which are getting nerfed in the next patch, and he's going to disappear and everyone will forget about him the moment that happens"? How much should the rank favor long-term trends outside of its own 1-2 month window?
It's hard to imagine that any player not named Zest would have even made the top 10, never mind gotten #4, with his results from October and November (to wit: wins against Classic and PiG, an even 1-1 versus Trap, and losses against Life, Solar, Rain, and Sora... an extraordinarily mediocre month and a half). So from this we conclude that past results do matter. But that does nothing to explain the conspicuous absence of Maru from September's power rank, when the fact that he was the only Korean Terran who mattered for nearly a year should have awarded him months and months of leeway. MMA getting sixth, and the long explanation that accompanies this "low" spot on the rank, suggests that recent results are weighed very, very heavily -- no predictive analyst would look at Blizzcon and conclude that MMA is a top 6 player going into 2015 s1 Code A, much less Code S. But Taeja and INnoVation getting higher spots than MMA suggests the opposite, that in fact context matters and the unambiguous non-flukeyeness of their success is reason to expect great things in the future.
That and the OP's "The Power Rank takes into account both results, the difficulty of opponents faced, and how good a player looked - both in victory and defeat" suggests this power ranking wants to be everything at the same time. Reward some long-term trends, make sure the recent champions are all represented regardless of how they played, have some predictive power but don't focus on that exclusively... it's a hodgepodge. I'm not saying this because I have a better solution, I'm just offering it up as an explanation of why some people come away dissatisfied. There is no single consistent goal, and the top 10 reflects that.
My power rank probably wouldn't be any better (even by my own measure). It might not even be that different. This is just food for thought. I enjoy reading these, and agree in spirit with keeping Zest on, placing MMA as low as is reasonably possible, and taking INnoVation's ro8 defeat in stride because that day was just absurd.
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Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
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your Country52798 Posts
On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote:
Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
Yeah, all 4 GSL finalists, TaeJa, and every WCS region winner except Pigbaby is so bad
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On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote:
Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
At least there were no foreigners!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 15 2014 23:59 meenamjah wrote:
Blizzcon is a bit of a joke of a tournament. Not even close to the top competition. That's sad, really.
It's so low-tier that all of this year's GSL champions lost before the finals. If only they cared about the $100.000 pay check they might have played seriously!
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EPT
