On October 25 2014 04:34 lastride wrote: JD was among the greatests in bw. A legend! He should have stayed in KESPA like the other legends Flash, Stork. I will be cheering for him in blizzcon. Maybe he can repeat last year;s crazy run
except the two you mentioned, not a single legend from kespa and barely any other a-teamers are worth anything in sc2, and stork only is code A/B level aswell. nobody knows how good or bad jaedong would've been if he stayed with kespa. i think he would've declined more personally, as playing all those tournaments in 2013 seemed to really help him.
In any sport, real fans stick by their teams/players regardless of their success. JD is my favorite player of all time! Flash had his number though. In terms of skill, I always thought:
JD was my favorite player in BW, even over GoD himself, Flash. His play truly was zerg like, endless stream of units that just ran over his opponents. It was like witnessing a monster ravage a poor helpless person.
i honestly believe JD is the greatest BW player that the game has produced. His nickname used to be 'legend killer' because he brought down all the legends. His dominance was thwarted by Flash later down the road, but I don't give credit to that because broodwar S-class TvZ is not very balanced, and Zerg has a hard time against an elite Terran. That's just the nature of the matchup. Add in the fact that the other race's maestro was Bisu, a " PvZ God" specialist, who Jaedong de-throned, and Jaedong dominated in ZvZ, the most luck-based mirror matchup that allows any no-name Zerg to beat an elite Zerg because of the nature of the matchup. If JD played a race that allowed him the greatest flexibility, most cost efficiency, and best matchups, would he have been able to beat Flash? No one knows. But I'm not impressed with Terran legends, simply of the nature of BW at those levels.
Jaedong destroying Hwasin with the ridiculous mass mutas, killing Bisu at his height in Blue Storm, coming back from 2-0 at Finals vs. Fantasy, using innovative Queens, etc. will always be a memory to us old BW veterans. Jaedong will always be a legend.
Jaedong is the master of 2nd place finishes. Which is a great accomplishment. often overlooked.
The fact that he could do so well with such a volatile race is pretty amazing.
Great Pros manage to stay in the game in spite of changes and roll with the patches. It's almost a new game every expansion and patch but somehow the same folks still win.
Would be hilarious if he makes 2nd this time too though...
On October 25 2014 07:14 Gapsule wrote: Jaedong is the master of 2nd place finishes. Which is a great accomplishment. often overlooked.
The fact that he could do so well with such a volatile race is pretty amazing.
Great Pros manage to stay in the game in spite of changes and roll with the patches. It's almost a new game every expansion and patch but somehow the same folks still win.
Would be hilarious if he makes 2nd this time too though...
P.S> That graph is Flashtastic.
Turns out he's also a master of 1st place finishes.
Legends are legends because they will be remembered forever for what they did JD is a legend, what comes afterwards cannot change the past. About the end of cycle card... its prolly a good sign, his play cannot get worse (with his skill i cannot understand how he can lose that often O_O) so a change can only be good (he is not retiring right?) Or maybe he is death incarnate and will kill everyone
For those interested about the BW scores between Flash, Bisu and Jaedong:
Pretty sure they were something like this
Flash vs Jaedong score = 24 : 24
Jaedong vs Bisu score = 12 : 16
Flash vs Bisu score = 12 : 8
IDK about the rest - but NO - Flash didn't have JD's number - they were EVEN after 48 clashes of them two..
Would've liked for TL to have that data somewhere "stored", but I was interested to check it before TL completely switched to SC2.. I was interested in the only-BW scores.. Flash was too long in a slump in SC2 however, and JD had his shining line, but never shining bright, and another fact that his career continued outside of KeSPA
So = Right now - yes - Flash would probably win, but it was a far greater rivalry than people tend to think.. In fact - JD had his "suckballz" team always running by himself TBH haha
On October 25 2014 06:33 parkufarku wrote: i honestly believe JD is the greatest BW player that the game has produced. His nickname used to be 'legend killer' because he brought down all the legends. His dominance was thwarted by Flash later down the road, but I don't give credit to that because broodwar S-class TvZ is not very balanced, and Zerg has a hard time against an elite Terran. That's just the nature of the matchup. Add in the fact that the other race's maestro was Bisu, a " PvZ God" specialist, who Jaedong de-throned, and Jaedong dominated in ZvZ, the most luck-based mirror matchup that allows any no-name Zerg to beat an elite Zerg because of the nature of the matchup. If JD played a race that allowed him the greatest flexibility, most cost efficiency, and best matchups, would he have been able to beat Flash? No one knows. But I'm not impressed with Terran legends, simply of the nature of BW at those levels.
Jaedong destroying Hwasin with the ridiculous mass mutas, killing Bisu at his height in Blue Storm, coming back from 2-0 at Finals vs. Fantasy, using innovative Queens, etc. will always be a memory to us old BW veterans. Jaedong will always be a legend.
On October 25 2014 08:58 VArsovskiSC wrote: For those interested about the BW scores between Flash, Bisu and Jaedong:
Pretty sure they were something like this
Flash vs Jaedong score = 24 : 24
Jaedong vs Bisu score = 12 : 16
Flash vs Bisu score = 12 : 8
IDK about the rest - but NO - Flash didn't have JD's number - they were EVEN after 48 clashes of them two..
Would've liked for TL to have that data somewhere "stored", but I was interested to check it before TL completely switched to SC2.. I was interested in the only-BW scores.. Flash was too long in a slump in SC2 however, and JD had his shining line, but never shining bright, and another fact that his career continued outside of KeSPA
So = Right now - yes - Flash would probably win, but it was a far greater rivalry than people tend to think.. In fact - JD had his "suckballz" team always running by himself TBH haha
People often talk about only three, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu. but forgot about Stork, poor him . They are TBLS and they go together. Stork is the only one that has the best record against other three
The thing to note is, despite being an "average" PvZ player. Stork managed to had JD's number and produced so many good PvZ games against the best Zerg in the world, JD. Stork was ridiculous at god level when playing against JD lol. Damn I miss this game, still there is no SC2 game that has the same level like this one
Cheering for Jaedong all the way. Hope he will get his throne back!!!!
On October 25 2014 08:58 VArsovskiSC wrote: For those interested about the BW scores between Flash, Bisu and Jaedong:
Pretty sure they were something like this
Flash vs Jaedong score = 24 : 24 ... IDK about the rest - but NO - Flash didn't have JD's number - they were EVEN after 48 clashes of them two..
I simply meant that Flash was one of the few players who could consistently beat JD, not that he dominated him. Interesting numbers though. I'm not trying to fuel a debate, but it would be more interesting to put the 24 - 24 number into context of "best of" series between them. Here are the major tournaments where they met since 2010...
WCG 2010 (Minor note: WCG is arguably "less important" to Pro-gamers) 1. JD 2. Flash
2010 Korean Air OSL 1. Flash 2. JD
2010 Big File MSL 1. Flash 2. JD
2010 Hana Daetoo MSL 1. Flash 2. JD
Nate MSL 1. JD 2. Flash
2009/2010 Ever OSL Flash knocked Jaedong out.
My memory is a bit short, since JD won more before 2009, but it "feels" like Flash has had the upper edge due to more recent victories. I excluded pre-2010 because it supports my point better :D. In terms of raw skill, what always impressed me about Flash is that he was the only player (that I know of) who ever had a 70% win percentage against all races at one time. Here are the most recent BW stats for them both:
Flash: vT: 73.30% vZ: 72.02% vP: 69.70%
Jaedong: vT: 63.00% vZ: 72.89% vP: 67.38%
Incredible numbers. They're both amazing players and my top 2 favorites!! Definitely helped me get into SC2 more now that they're in decent shape.
On October 25 2014 10:58 LightAngels wrote: People often talk about only three, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu. but forgot about Stork, poor him . They are TBLS and they go together. Stork is the only one that has the best record against other three
I used to love Stork, but it felt like he would lose at the most disappointing times!! Stork fans (myself included) were always on an emotional roller coaster :/. My fondest memory of Stork was carriers vs Flash (I don't remember the tourny right now).
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/Here_To_Stay/5.jpg)
. They are TBLS and they go together. Stork is the only one that has the best record against other three
