Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you?
Pretty sick strawman right there. Well I merely stated that no single master league player has ever had more than 500viewers by just not being good at talking. Players like Destiny and Maximumblack have done "crazy" stuff. However, obviously there is no "law" that states that must be the case, but when you look at an outlier (which Winterstarcraft) is in this regard, and you on top of that also see that he is an outlier in other ways as well, you begin to ask quesiton about the validity of his viewer count.
Compare twitter to twitch all you want, this is absolutely worthless and you probably even know it.
Eh I don't think it's worhtless. It's a pretty strong indicator of popularity.
I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
That you are almost sure about that says a lot about your judgement. I never commented on Winther before yesterday really, and I wanted to see whether there were reasons to expect that he manipulated viewer counts so I checked his twitter account. Based on that, it's my assesment (given all the other facts) that it's very likely that viewer-botting is occuring.
Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you? Compare twitter to twitch all you want, this is absolutely worthless and you probably even know it. I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you?
Pretty sick strawman right there. Well I merely stated that no single master league player has ever had more than 500viewers by just not being good at talking. Players like Destiny and Maximumblack have done "crazy" stuff. However, obviously there is no "law" that states that must be the case, but when you look at an outlier (which Winterstarcraft) is in this regard, and you on top of that also see that he is an outlier in other ways as well, you begin to ask quesiton about the validity of his viewer count.
There are several other streamer in other games who are not at the highest lvl either. People seem to think that being good at the game means you have a high viewer count. That isn't true though, you have to be good at streaming and winter is pretty good at it.
On September 11 2014 23:06 Plansix wrote: Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
I only know him from starbow tbh, he seems quite reasonable there, at least what i have seen so far. Maybe i was wrong though.
That you are almost sure about that says a lot about your judgement. I never commented on Winther before yesterday really, and I wanted to see whether there were reasons to expect that he manipulated viewer counts so I checked his twitter account. Based on that, it's my assesment (given all the other facts) that it's very likely that viewer-botting is occuring.
On September 11 2014 23:06 Plansix wrote: Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
I think that was uncalled before. I agree I might have commented the wrong way before, but we talked about that and I think I changed my attitude. What I wrote here was a response to this:
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
He accused me of being bias'ed/fantatic, when I only based the assesment on numbers and a combination of different "facts/judgements". I never said "twitter doesn't make sense, therefore he viewbots". Rather, the numbers didn't make sense in multiple ways. It's not me starting to go into the whole objectivity discussion in the first place.
I only know him from starbow tbh, he seems quite reasonable there, at least what i have seen so far. Maybe i was wrong though.
Your welcome to go through my posting history over the last couple of months. If you find somewhere wher you think I am unreasonable or signifciantly bias'ed, please let me know. What I think you are more likely to find is me giving credit to both sides of the argument.
Twitter followers has less to do win streaming numbers than Huks streaming being boring as !@#$%^&* and he doesn't do it that often. You can often tune into an empty chair with him. Both Avilo and incontrol at least try to entertain their viewers. People tryin to find connections between twitter and stream numbers might find some correlation, but that doesn't not lead to causation.
Yeh, that's why we need to use comparable examples. I believe Avilo and Wintherstarcraft are roughly comparable as they talk alot and rose to popularity at the same time. The differ in regards to mentality on balance ofc, and I guess too some extent that could explain the discrepencay in twitter-popularity (it's not impossible at least). However, given all the way other ways Winterstarcrafts viewer numbers seems to make little sense, I think it's more likely his true viewer count is much lower than 2k.
I just get tired of the lazy argument style of "I'm logical and unbiased, unlike you." It's just such a fucking shit way to have a discussion, dripping with the intent to be passive agressive, but always being able to fall back on being the "rational, non emotional" party in the discussion. It's a style a lot of people on TL like to use to get an edge in their arguments.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
On September 11 2014 23:13 Plansix wrote: I just get tired of the lazy argument style of "I'm logical and unbiased, unlike you." It's just such a fucking !@#$%^&* way to have a discussion, dripping with the intent to be passive agressive, but always being able to fall back on being the "rational, non emotional" party in the discussion. It's a style a lot of people on TL like to use to get an edge in their arguments.
I agree with you actually - Typically everyone thinks they are being the logical/objective ones, and usually I try and let my arguments stand for them selves, and I don't think I said "i am objective/logical" before in the 1k posts or so (don't remember last time at least). But this was a response to me him claining I was a Winter-antifanitic. Given the arguments I presented, did I seem like an antifantic to you? Anti-fantic to me would be someone that said "Winter is a bad streamer, thus he viewbots".
Given what he said there, would you admit it was a bit unfair that you called me here as I was more responding to his accusations of me being a Winter-antifanatic?
I pointed that out earlier, but people seem set on assigning meaning it whatever flawed data they have available to prove their point.
Yeh once again I agree here, we see this way too much on the forum. But that was also why I spend a bit of time looking at some of the numbers and dismissed the cases where they obviously weren't comparable. For instance, Destiny, Huk, Incontrol or Nathanias have higher followers for different reasons. The best comparision I could come up with was Avilo, but you also saw a brief discussion of what could explain the potential differences, and ofc twitter-followers can never be used as a proof of anything in it self, but rather as an indicator, and when multiple indicators points to the same thing, it seems plausible that the indicators could be on to something.
On September 11 2014 21:39 WinterStarcraft wrote: EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
Could you prove this? I mean, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to ban 10k people in your chat if you're viewbotting. So, strangely enough, this seems like one of the strongest arguments against the accusations so far.
It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
On September 11 2014 23:29 Plansix wrote: It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
Well if it's irrelevant, then please don't go into that type of debate where you make it personal. Rather focus on the ball instead of the man. The ball here would be the "quality of data" and not whether I made a couple of comments which you didn't like, and thus feel the need to haunt me for the rest of my life.
Regarding data. To me it seems you then would argue twitter numbers for every single other streamer are inflated and that Winterstarcrafts twitterfollowers are uninflated. I see this in a different way: If twitter-followers for most players make sense based on a couple of metrics such as:
and we then have one guy where we cannot explain his twitter-follower at all based on the above metrics, then it does raise suspicion. Ofc it's just possible that there are other metrics which impact twitter-followers, and if there were no other reasons to suspect anything, I would be inclined to think that was the case (thus I wouldn't think about view-bots). But when the "twitter"-story is just another situation where the 2k+-viewer story doesn't make sense, I am more inclined to think the latter is the case.
I guess the difference here between you and I is that I don't see data as useless, but rather I see interpreting data "correctly" as something that is very challenging and easily can be manipulated. But if that's the case, then it should be very easy to specifiy where the data is being manipulated or how it's uncomparable.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
Agree, but - as should be clear now - that has never been my argument. Rather, my argument has been that he is an outlier in multipliple ways. For instance, chat inactivity, huge voliatility in stream viewers, much more viewers than any other master-league player without being "crazy/funny". When looking at these outliers on a stand-alone-basis they do not proove anything by them selves, but when you add them all up, it makes it alot more suspecicious.
No, I argued that correlation doesn't not mean causation and never has. And I choose not to have an opinion without sifficent data, which is not available in this case.
It's worth linking this again. Someone has taken the time to compare chat activity of Winter's twitch channel and various other streamers'. The TL;DR version is that there was nothing suspicious going on, compared to other streams with similar numbers of viewers.
The data is out there, anyone can gather viewer numbers, chat size, chat activity and other metrics. If Winter's chat is that empty compared to other chats, then this can be proven with the available data. So far, everyone who has actually had a look at the data did not find anything suspicious.
On September 11 2014 23:29 Plansix wrote: It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
Well if it's irrelevant, then please don't go into that type of debate where you make it personal. Rather focus on the ball instead of the man. The ball here would be the "quality of data" and not whether I made a couple of comments which you didn't like, and thus feel the need to haunt me for the rest of my life.
Regarding data. To me it seems you then would argue twitter numbers for every single other streamer are inflated and that Winterstarcrafts twitterfollowers are uninflated. I see this in a different way: If twitter-followers for most players make sense based on a couple of metrics such as:
and we then have one guy where we cannot explain his twitter-follower at all based on the above metrics, then it does raise suspicion. Ofc it's just possible that there are other metrics which impact twitter-followers, and if there were no other reasons to suspect anything, I would be inclined to think that was the case (thus I wouldn't think about view-bots). But when the "twitter"-story is just another situation where the 2k+-viewer story doesn't make sense, I am more inclined to think the latter is the case.
I guess the difference here between you and I is that I don't see data as useless, but rather I see interpreting data "correctly" as something that is very challenging and easily can be manipulated. But if that's the case, then it should be very easy to specifiy where the data is being manipulated or how it's uncomparable.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
Agree, but - as should be clear now - that has never been my argument. Rather, my argument has been that he is an outlier in multipliple ways. For instance, chat inactivity, huge voliatility in stream viewers, much more viewers than any other master-league player without being "crazy/funny". When looking at these outliers on a stand-alone-basis they do not proove anything by them selves, but when you add them all up, it makes it alot more suspecicious.
You say that as if it would be a fact noone could argue and then wonder why people call you out when you say you are the "objective" one. Crazy really.
huge voliatility in stream viewers
If you talk about the two pictures posted a few pages ago, well then the Kespa Cup had to viewbot as well i guess. These "huge differences in viewer numbers" in a short amount of time happens a lot on twitch
chat inactivity
Ok that is a "fair" point i guess, but as winter stated his chat has pretty strict rules, that could be a reason. Also there could be people not interested in the twitch chat in the first place. There is also a reddit thread from darkautumn i think that was his name?) where he compares winter's chat to other chats and comes to the conclusion that it isn't really suspicious.
Also you guys keep ignoring twitch in all of that (well you said they seem to ignore his viewbotting, so you basically say twitch is ok with faking numbers cause it helps them)
You say that as if it would be a fact noone could argue and then wonder why people call you out when you say you are the "objective" one. Crazy really.
Previously I got annoyed when people just put out random statements without any arguments. I have always liked the discussions for the sake of putting up arguments rather than putting up random opinions, but I realized that people are different, and I think I am (a bit) better at respecting that today. I still get annoyed over one-liners, but I am better at ignoring them today. However, the discussion we have had had nothing to do with this, but Plansix apparently apparently still feel the to tell everyone how I am based based on a couple of comments 2 years ago. Anyway, let's ignore personal comments (such as bias, objectivism, fantaticsm) and focus on the ball, ok?
I agree that it would be dumb to say that because you act normal and polite as Winter then it would be impossible to generate 500+ viewers. That's not my point at all, but rather my point is that that it doesn't appear as if he is differentiating him self very much. At least by enough to gain 2k+viewers. Historically all other streamers that rose to popularity without being that good at the game were kinda "crazy", such as Avilo, Destiny, Maximumsblack.
As an analogy, say you operate a business which offers a product in a very competitive environment, and your product isn't noticeable different from that of your competitors. Then you should expect to charge roughly the same price as your competitors. If for some reason you can charge 5 times more, then it raises a bit of suspicion. That's why you see a lot of people say they don't understand how he has that many viewers, becasue - besides talking a good amount - he doesn't differentiates him self that much. It's easy to explain Avilo's numbers: "He is whiny and plays a different-playstyle and is probabyly one of the best players that plays that platystyle". However, what is Winterstarcraft's story? Just talking a lot during games doesn't seem convcing to me.
But obviously, please acknowledge that I never used this argument to proof anything strongly as it's just based on very few comparisons. It's just one little thing that seems a bit weird.
There is also a reddit thread from darkautumn i think that was his name?) where he compares winter's chat to other chats and comes to the conclusion that it isn't really suspicious.
I remember reading that thread as well, and after that I remembered thinking that he probably didn't viewbot, but at the same time I wasn't convinced that his methodlogy was 100% "sound". But back then I wasn't that interested in him, so I didn't spent enough time thinking about it though. Would you mind linking me to it? I definitely favor someone that attempts to "quantify" chat activity, rather than based on 1-2 screenshots, so I would be willing to revisit my judgement if data indicated that viewer numbers were justified.
Also you guys keep ignoring twitch in all of that (well you said they seem to ignore his viewbotting, so you basically say twitch is ok with faking numbers cause it helps them)
I think in the end of the day, it comes down to whether all of the other arguments (combined) makes it more likely that he is viewbotting than that Twitch.Tv would ban players that viewbotted. I am no real expert in Twitch, and thus I have a very difficult time coming up with a probability for the latter. It could be 10% for what I know. But ofc if you could find numerious cass of people which have been banned for viewbotting and WinterStarcraft didn't, then I would also be willing to revisit my arguments. Really I didn't have any opinion on Winterstarcraft before yesterday, I just thought the whole viewbotting-thing was a bit funny. But I also got annoyed when people refered to Winterstarcraft "admittely" saying he was viewbotting, because that was taken the comment completley out of context.
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
I actually don't know if twitch bans people cause of viewbotting, i made the assumption cause it would make sense. Maybe i was a little bit harsh with you overall, i am sorry for that, but i think this "witchhunt" has to stop and as you said people referring to "his admit of viewbotting" take his statement completely out of context, BUT it helps to spread it even more, like any "gossip".
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
Well I don't think it's ridiclous to make that argument in the first place if its something that is generally agreed upon. Like you would argue that someone like Huk/many koreans have pretty boring streams right? Given that, I think we can make a connection between stream succes and personality.
But I will admit, that I very well could be wrong on Winterstarcrafts, and that there could be reasons to like his stream based on his personality. Would you mind elaboring a bit on where you think his persoantlity stands out from other streamers?
Given that he interacts a lot with his viewers, I would expect a pretty high activity in chat. Avilo has over twice as many chat messages/viewer number, but I guess (partially) that could be explained by more whining in chat/less restrict moderators (though on the other hand I heard people that criticize Avilo also get banned).
Incontrol has around 20% more, which is somewhat closer - Overall, Winterstarcraft has the lowest activity of foreign streams.
Given these data, I believe it's highly unlikely that 75%+ of his viewer numbers come from bots - he definitely has a solid little core, but there is no support in the data that the majority of his viewers aren't bots.
That said, I think that after rereading the thread - that there is not enough support for the accusations. He simply isn't a big enough outlier, so while I will remain a bit suspricious, I think I end the discusison here.
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
Well I don't think it's ridiclous to make that argument in the first place if its something that is generally agreed upon. Like you would argue that someone like Huk/many koreans have pretty boring streams right? Given that, I think we can make a connection between stream succes and personality.
But I will admit, that I very well could be wrong on Winterstarcrafts, and that there could be reasons to like his stream based on his personality. Would you mind elaboring a bit on where you think his persoantlity stands out from other streamers?
Well agreed on by whom? I have no idea about huk, but when we look at koreans streaming, they simply don't interect at all (there are exceptions maybe, but generally speaking), obviously they play better, but that doesn't seem to be important these days.
Well he talks a lot (and by a lot i mean without any pause tbh), people seem to like that. Give me one streamer who does that too. Also his stream overall is pretty legit (sounds for donations,subscribers, etc), he does master games, has a winter weekly going on (for bronze to gold), does bronze to masters, trollgames (like playing with his VOICE only). Just a lot of different things really. He also is very consistens with his streaming time and he streams a lot which helps too. This whole package seems to be interesting for a lot of people, even if you personally think it isn't.
Regarding "crazy" things, below is an example, and Destiny has a lot more than that. While I never really watched Destiny stream, his viewer-numbers were always kinda self-exaplantory given how much some people expressed their entertainment and how much he overall was hyped.
It did get me thinking though. Dragon also always had solid viewernumbers without actually being able to talk english, but made "dumb" trollgames and annoying sounds which some people found funny. I guess in that context, it makes sense that you can get good viewernumbers as long as your just really good at one thing (for instance best at talking/explaining during games). But I think intuitively I associate succesful "streamer personality" with someone that goes to the top of reddit because of funny stuff he did during his stream, and that's why I have had trouble seeing Winterstarcraft as the most popular streamer.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
I stream more than you. I have played this game LONGER than you, and you are telling me that twich has given you a " premium partnership? "
EPT
